RE: Favorite wide lens?
--- "J. C. O'Connell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just bought a Tokina RMC 24mm F2.8 in M42 a few > weeks ago to throw into my "Car Trunk" kit. > Excellent > lens & well worth the $50 paid. This dates from the > early 80's I think and all metal... > JCO > - That might be really close to what I was looking at. Do you think the k-mount version would be much different? Deb Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
My favorite wide lens is surely K 28/3.5 if I want to bring only one or two lenses. I used it mainly (together with F 50/1.4) during my walk-around tour in England and Scotland last year. == ¥þ±¡²y¤J¡G¥@¬É¬×2002 http://worldcup.sina.com.hk µ¹»·¤è¿Ë¤Í¶Ç¤WµLÅå³ß¡Ghttp://sms.sina.com.hk ·s®öÅ]ªk¦Ê¦h´Úºâ©Rµ{¦¡--«l·Ç¡I http://ifate.sina.com.hk - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
Hi, Bob. > I prefer the FA*24/2.0 for some of the extraordinary picture > quality it delivers. I understand. And you're not alone - there's a lot of PDML-ers that swear by that lens. And I suppose that I've got to try it some time... (Or, maybe I should give another look at the A 24/2.8, a lens I no longer have...) > I have been working with a 'new' (to me) A20/2.8 that I like, but > results can be a surprise sometimes. I took the 20mm out after a > snowfall and captured some landscapes. I tried filling the frame > with the foreground I wanted by aiming a bit higher to get the > distractions in front of me out of the frame. Well, I got them > out of the frame all right, but look what else happened... > http://members.aol.com/rfsindg/A20mm.jpg > Takes some practice getting used to this!> The 20mm is much > like the 15mm. You must watch to keep it LEVEL. Heh-heh. Yes, Bob, 20mm takes a little getting used to. But that's because it really ~is~ wide. Not as wide as the 15/3.5, of course, but wide enough that shooting requires some care, more than what's required with a your 24. But, that's also why I like 20mm more than 24mm - it really ~is~ wide, isn't it? Now back to your photo - you do have to admit, Bob, that you ~should~ have seen that coming right in the viewfinder, right? ;-) (Thanks for sharing - takes guts - you're a better man than I, Bob - .) Fred - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Favorite wide lens?
> >Does anyone have opinions on non-Pentax glass in the > >same focal length? I know Cosina, Tokina and Tamron > >(I think) make a 24/2.8. Are they good or barely > >worth the plastic they're housed in? I'm asking > >because I could probably get one to half the cost of > >the Pentax lens. > I just bought a Tokina RMC 24mm F2.8 in M42 a few weeks ago to throw into my "Car Trunk" kit. Excellent lens & well worth the $50 paid. This dates from the early 80's I think and all metal... JCO - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
I recently bought an FA 20 - 35 f4 and love it - great color and contrast, wonderfully sharp. - MCC At 09:23 PM 4/25/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Just a quick question. What is your prefered wide >angle lens? I have been thinking about getting a >third party lens, probably around 24mm, and wanted >some feedback from the group. - - - - - - - - - - Mark Cassino Kalamazoo, MI [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - - - - - - - - - Photos: http://www.markcassino.com - - - - - - - - - - - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
At 13:50 26-4-2002 -0400, you wrote: >From: Debra Wilborn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: Favorite wide lens? > >Wow, thanks for the overwhelming response! I guess >then that the SMC 24/2.8 ranks pretty high on the list >(and the 31 LTD). I'll keep that in mind next time I >go lens shopping. > >Does anyone have opinions on non-Pentax glass in the >same focal length? I know Cosina, Tokina and Tamron >(I think) make a 24/2.8. Are they good or barely >worth the plastic they're housed in? I'm asking >because I could probably get one to half the cost of >the Pentax lens. Hi Deb, I used to have a Tokina 24mm. I'm pretty sure it was metal. I don't remember it as being a particularly bad lens, but I didn't use it apart from one one cycle trip to the pyrenees. I sold it after that. ever helpful, Wendy --- Wendy Beard Ottawa, Canada mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] home page http://www.beard-redfern.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
Sorry, but that is too high for me for a used lens. I can get a new one from Pavel Gubanov for $85. He usually sells on ebay, but I have purchased from him direct including shipping for what he normally gets on ebay. On Friday 26 April 2002 01:52 pm, you wrote: > $90 + s/h. Contact me off-list for more details. > > On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:54:13 -0500, "Ken Archer" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > said: > > How much do you want for your Mir 20? > > > > On Friday 26 April 2002 07:46 am, you wrote: > > >I am thinking of selling the > > > russian one, since it has been collecting dust on my shelf for > > > almost half a year already. > > > > -- > > Kenneth Archer, San Antonio, Texas > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Kenneth Archer, San Antonio, Texas [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
Previously I'd have said 24mm, but the novelty of the wideness has worn off, and I think that 35mm really is my favourite focal length, not just for wides, but overall. -Aaron - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
$90 + s/h. Contact me off-list for more details. On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:54:13 -0500, "Ken Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > How much do you want for your Mir 20? > > On Friday 26 April 2002 07:46 am, you wrote: > > I have a russian Mir MK-47 20mm/2.5 and SMCA 24/2.8 > > Between them, the second one is my clear choice (although for more > > than twice the money). It's a bit longer and a bit slower (or, maybe > > not, "2.5" is not necessarily "2.5" really). But it's a lot more > > compact, has half the weight, and there's simply no comparison in the > > build quality. Still, I was quite happy with the 20mm, until I got > > the 24mm. I am thinking of selling the russian one, since it has been > > collecting dust on my shelf for almost half a year already. > > -- > Kenneth Archer, San Antonio, Texas > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . > -- http://fastmail.fm - The way e-mail should be... - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
Wow, thanks for the overwhelming response! I guess then that the SMC 24/2.8 ranks pretty high on the list (and the 31 LTD). I'll keep that in mind next time I go lens shopping. Does anyone have opinions on non-Pentax glass in the same focal length? I know Cosina, Tokina and Tamron (I think) make a 24/2.8. Are they good or barely worth the plastic they're housed in? I'm asking because I could probably get one to half the cost of the Pentax lens. Thanks and happy shooting, Deb Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
I agree wholeheartedly. My 15 rarely travels in my bag. Only if I know I'm likely to use it. But I love it none the less. In a message dated 4/26/02 10:01:24 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: <<> 15MM F3.5 SMC TAKUMAR. W I D E !!! > SHARP, CONTRASTY, FLARE RESISTANT. > NOBODY DOES IT BETTER. I have an optically identical A 15/3.5, and I have to agree with your summary of its superb qualities, JCO. However, it still loses out (along with the A 16/2.8 Fisheye) to my A 20/2.8 for "preferred wide angle lens". Both the 15/3.5 and (especially) the 16/2.8 are very specialized lenses, made for very specialized images - images that the 20/2.8 can't handle. However, most of my own wide angle shooting doesn't usually need something ~that~ wide, and the 20/2.8 serves nicely as the proper tool most of the time. Furthermore, the bulky (especially the 15/3.5) and rather dear super wide angles simply don't get carried around very often - they are usually sitting at home unless I know ahead of time that they would be useful - while the compact 20/2.8 is almost as portable as a 50mm normal lens (well, except for the flaring filter flange - ), and has seen a lot of miles. But the 15/3.5 is a gem, though, isn't it... ;-)>> - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Favorite wide lens?
> Just a quick question. What is your prefered wide angle lens? I have > been thinking about getting a third party lens, probably around 24mm, > and wanted some feedback from the group. Mine is the FA 20-35mm f/4. The best prime wide angle lens I own is the FA 35mm f/2 but I use the 20-35mm zoom more frequently. Len --- - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
How much do you want for your Mir 20? On Friday 26 April 2002 07:46 am, you wrote: > I have a russian Mir MK-47 20mm/2.5 and SMCA 24/2.8 > Between them, the second one is my clear choice (although for more > than twice the money). It's a bit longer and a bit slower (or, maybe > not, "2.5" is not necessarily "2.5" really). But it's a lot more > compact, has half the weight, and there's simply no comparison in the > build quality. Still, I was quite happy with the 20mm, until I got > the 24mm. I am thinking of selling the russian one, since it has been > collecting dust on my shelf for almost half a year already. -- Kenneth Archer, San Antonio, Texas [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
> Just a quick question. What is your prefered wide angle lens? I have > been thinking about getting a third party lens, probably around 24mm, > and wanted some feedback from the group. My favourite wide angle lens has to be the M24-35/3.5. Good range, not too long a zoom, and compact. My favourite focal length for wide angle is a toss-up between 24mm and 35mm. chris - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
>> As to field-of-view, 24mm (or 35mm on the 645) seems about right >> to me for a wide angle. 20mm is too extreme (hey, you fisheye >> guys, don't laugh!) and 28mm seems kinda blah. > Obviously this is a very personal thing, but I prefer 20mm for an > all-around wide-angle focal length. I also find 28mm sometimes a > bit "blah" (as in "not really all that wide"), but I also find that > 24mm, while different, is not overly different. On the other hand, > it seems to me that 15mm is too extreme for a lot of wide-angle > shooting (it's mostly for very specialized images) (and the 15/3.5 > is too big to carry around "just in case" anyway), so (for me) 20mm > is the "sweet spot" for most wide-angle situations. But, as I said, > this is a very personal thing. To add an addendum to my opinion: I used to have an A 24/2.8 (which is a very nice lens, by the way), but I found that I hardly ever used it, so I no longer have it. (I'm sure it is serving another Pentaxer very well.) But, you know, I don't miss it at all... On the other hand, if you took away my 20, I'd feel sort naked - . Fred - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
> 15MM F3.5 SMC TAKUMAR. W I D E !!! > SHARP, CONTRASTY, FLARE RESISTANT. > NOBODY DOES IT BETTER. I have an optically identical A 15/3.5, and I have to agree with your summary of its superb qualities, JCO. However, it still loses out (along with the A 16/2.8 Fisheye) to my A 20/2.8 for "preferred wide angle lens". Both the 15/3.5 and (especially) the 16/2.8 are very specialized lenses, made for very specialized images - images that the 20/2.8 can't handle. However, most of my own wide angle shooting doesn't usually need something ~that~ wide, and the 20/2.8 serves nicely as the proper tool most of the time. Furthermore, the bulky (especially the 15/3.5) and rather dear super wide angles simply don't get carried around very often - they are usually sitting at home unless I know ahead of time that they would be useful - while the compact 20/2.8 is almost as portable as a 50mm normal lens (well, except for the flaring filter flange - ), and has seen a lot of miles. But the 15/3.5 is a gem, though, isn't it... ;-) Fred - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
On 26 Apr 2002 at 8:36, Bob Walkden wrote: > Putting it in context, I also have very good 21/2.8 and 28/2.8 lenses, > and have previously also had Pentax A 20/2.8, A 24/2.8 and K 28/2 lenses, > all of which I liked. But although they are useful and good to have, none > of them has the overall versatility of the 35mm. Har, But you haven't owned the 31mm LTD yet :-) Seriously (and I've probably said this before) when I was shooting Contax a lot had a decent selection of glass but by far my most used lenses were the f1.4 35 and 85 pair, they just seem to be a perfect pair on the Contax bodies. I also shot around 90% of my images during my last inter-continental trip using my Leica M35f1.4 ASPH and only had the need to go wide on a few occasions. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Favorite wide lens?
On 26 Apr 2002 at 3:42, J. C. O'Connell wrote: > 15MM F3.5 SMC TAKUMAR. W I D E !!! > SHARP, CONTRASTY, FLARE RESISTANT. > NOBODY DOES IT BETTER. Apparently the new Leica R 15f2.8 ASPH is the new bench-mark for the FL Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
Flavio Minelli wrote: This until I got a SMCK 24/2.8, now I think I'm addicted. 28mm FOV seems to generate in me about the same reaction it does in Stan..."blah". ... 24mm rules! Indeed, when they were introduced, the 24s were snapped up by professionals because every serious amateur had acquired a 28mm lens and the pros needed something to let their prints look different. It's also interesting how many photojournalists, in the days of primes, seemed to use a 24 as their wide-angle lens. With its expansive field of view, it allowed them to be in the thick of action and shoot away when there was neither time nor room to pull back. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
Wow, what a range for WA's. 17 to 31mm. I never owned anything wider than a 28mm, but after seeing what a 35mm 645 (equivalent to 23mm) can do, I feel that anything in the 20 to 24mm would be more interesting than the 28mm view. Jeff - Original Message - From: "Pål Audun Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:50 AM Subject: Re: Favorite wide lens? > Fa 31/1.8 Limited > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
Fa 31/1.8 Limited - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
I have a russian Mir MK-47 20mm/2.5 and SMCA 24/2.8 Between them, the second one is my clear choice (although for more than twice the money). It's a bit longer and a bit slower (or, maybe not, "2.5" is not necessarily "2.5" really). But it's a lot more compact, has half the weight, and there's simply no comparison in the build quality. Still, I was quite happy with the 20mm, until I got the 24mm. I am thinking of selling the russian one, since it has been collecting dust on my shelf for almost half a year already. -- http://fastmail.fm - In the time it takes you to read this, you could be FastMailing - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
At 01:47 26-4-2002 -0400, you wrote: >From: Debra Wilborn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Favorite wide lens? > >Just a quick question. What is your prefered wide >angle lens? I have been thinking about getting a >third party lens, probably around 24mm, and wanted >some feedback from the group. > >Buenos noches, >Deb My favourite is the Pentax-M 20mm. I don't tend to use the 24-28-35 lenses I have/had. I either use the 20mm or the Tamron SP 17mm f3.5 but the first one is my favourite. Wendy --- Wendy Beard Ottawa, Canada mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] home page http://www.beard-redfern.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
> Just a quick question. What is your prefered wide angle lens? I > have been thinking about getting a third party lens, probably > around 24mm, and wanted some feedback from the group. My choice for preferred (i.e., my most used) w/a is the A 20/2.8. It's compact, sharp, has great contrast, never vignettes with filters, and I do like 20mm for an all-around w/a focal length. Fred - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
> As to field-of-view, 24mm (or 35mm on the 645) seems about right > to me for a wide angle. 20mm is too extreme (hey, you fisheye > guys, don't laugh!) and 28mm seems kinda blah. Obviously this is a very personal thing, but I prefer 20mm for an all-around wide-angle focal length. I also find 28mm sometimes a bit "blah" (as in "not really all that wide"), but I also find that 24mm, while different, is not overly different. On the other hand, it seems to me that 15mm is too extreme for a lot of wide-angle shooting (it's mostly for very specialized images) (and the 15/3.5 is too big to carry around "just in case" anyway), so (for me) 20mm is the "sweet spot" for most wide-angle situations. But, as I said, this is a very personal thing. Fred - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Favorite wide lens?
Lets see, Althought the SMCT 15mm is the coolest, I've got plenty of wide angle action: 35mm Format: Screwmounts 15mm 3.5 SMCT -AWESOME BABY 17mm 4 SMCT Fisheye 20mm 4.5 SMCT 21mm 4 Mamiya SX BEATS THE 20mm PENTAX SMCT 24mm 3.5 SMCT 28mm 3.5 SMCT 28mm 1.9 Vivitar Series 1 VERY NICE 35mm 2.0 SMCT (yellowed a bit) 35mm 2.0 Super Tak ( 67mm filter) BEST 35mm 35mm 3.5 SMCT 28-85mm 4.0 Tokina RMC FANTASTIC for a zoom 45-125mm 4.0 SMCT GREAT ZOOM Kmounts 24mm 2.8 Sigma 28mm 3.5 M 28-50mm M 45-125mm SMCP GREAT ZOOM 6X7 Format: 45mm 4.0 SMCP EXCELLENTE 55mm 3.5 SMCT 75mm 4.5 SMCT 90mm 2.8 SMCT LS 4X5 Format 135mm I Forget the brand Hm, only 21 to choose from. That 15mm SMCT still takes the cake. The 45mm for 67 is a close second though. I need a 75mm for my speed graphic, especially as I'm getting a scanner than can cover it. JCO - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
Stan Halpin wrote: > > ... > > As to field-of-view, 24mm (or 35mm on the 645) seems about right to me for a > wide angle. 20mm is too extreme (hey, you fisheye guys, don't laugh!) and > 28mm seems kinda blah. > ... I had a SMCA 28/2.8 and a Vivitar 19/3.8 for a long time. Being the Vivitar what it is (not so good, really) I used mainly the 28. This until I got a SMCK 24/2.8, now I think I'm addicted. 28mm FOV seems to generate in me about the same reaction it does in Stan..."blah". I think I could get rid of it as it haven't seen daylight in a long time. 24mm rules! Ciao, Flavio - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Favorite wide lens?
Hi, On 25 Apr 2002 at 21:23, Debra Wilborn wrote: > Just a quick question. What is your prefered wide > angle lens? I have been thinking about getting a > third party lens, probably around 24mm, and wanted > some feedback from the group. SMC Pentax-A 2.8/24 24mm is one of my most used focal lengths. I've also tried the Tamron (Adaptall2) 2.5/24 and the Vivitar 2/24. All of them are good lenses, but the Pentax's coating and handling is much better than the other two. Other wideangles I use: Tokina 3.5/17 SL Cosinon-W 2/28 SMC Pentax-M 2/35 Gabor - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .