Re: [Python-Dev] MinGW And The other Py2.4 issue

[Paul Moore]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:48:41 +0100, Martin v. Löwis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I understand that one still needs to build libpython24.a in order to
> use this process. As I have said, I'd happily ship that file with the
> 2.4.1 MSI, unless the release manager tells me that this would an
> unacceptable new feature, and as long as somebody provides a fully
> automatic build process integrated into msi.py; for that build process,
> it is ok to assume that a cygwin installation is in c:\cygwin.
> 
> So if this would be useful (which I don't know for sure), I still need
> a volunteer to contribute the appropriate magic.

I am willing to work on this, if you wouldn't mind me asking dumb
questions about the build process :-) However, I don't have VS.NET, so
if automation requires integration into the VS project stuff, I can't
help.

For a starter, what steps do you actually take to build a release? I
assume that the first step is to build Python, by clicking on "build"
in VS.NET. Once you have that, is there a single script you run? If
there's a document describing the release process somewhere, feel free
to point me at it.

Thanks,
Paul.
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[Python-Dev] Python in education

[Randy Chung]

Hi everyone,
I'm going to be leading a class on Python at the University of 
California, Berkeley next semester (starting in January).  I'm 
interested in using actual bugs in Python as exercises for the class, 
the goal being 1) to give the students something "real" to work with, 
and 2) to (hopefully) contribute back anything we manage to put together 
to the Python dev team.

What I'm looking for are some oustanding bugs which the more experienced 
devs feel would be straightforward to implement (which might not have 
been implemented yet because they're not very interesting, or there are 
simply too many other things to do right now).  I'd appreciate any and 
all suggestions any of you might be able to provide.

I think that Python will have a better chance at wider adoption if 
universities would provide courses for the language.  I'm running this 
class partly because I'd like to give back to the community which 
produced a language I've enjoyed using, and any assistance would be 
greatly appreciated.

If you feel this is off topic, please feel free to reply to me off-list.
Thanks,
Randy Chung
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Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places

[Barry Warsaw]

On Wed, 2004-12-15 at 07:32, Nick Coghlan wrote:

> about.python.org?
> 
> And if someone ends up playing with the DNS server, maybe they could add 
> wiki.python.org while they're at it :)

DNS changes have to go through pydotorg at python.org, since Thomas is
the person currently able to add host names.

-Barry



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Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places

[Aahz]

On Tue, Dec 14, 2004, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
>Attribution deleted:
>> 
>> No one disagrees that Python needs better marketing material.  At the
>> last PyCon a group of people sat down in a pydotorg BoF and agreed
>> that yes, we do need a management-friendly marketing site, and that we
>> could put it on a separate hostname (something.python.org) so that the
>> current www.python.org wouldn't have to be changed.
>> 
>> However, no one has actually sat down and written such a site, or even
>> outlined it.  Let me encourage you to go ahead and do that.  You could
>> draft the outline on a Wiki page, and then later figure out an
>> attractive design and organization for a new site.
> 
> suggested hostname: why.python.org

This is where the process always gets bogged down.  :-(  Once we have
material, that's the time to start arguing about where it should go.
-- 
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])   <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming,
is not worth knowing."  --Alan Perlis
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Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places

[Dennis Allison]

Ummm... I don't think that anyone looks for information by trolling
subdomain names.  If I am looking for python information, I go to 
www.python.org or python.org.  I would never guess "business.python.org".

Seems to me that what we need is content and let the search engines bring
on the masses.

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Terry Reedy wrote:

> For a subsite aimed at businesses, business.python.org is obvious and 
> easily remembered.  Not all businesses are corporations.  'about' and 'why' 
> are not specific at all.
> 
> I think such a subsite, linked from the main site also, would be a good 
> idea.  It should explain both why (including success stories) and how 
> (including employment/contracting) to use Python in business.  Pieces could 
> come from the existing site.
> 
> I think the mere existence of such a site would constitute a message to 
> businesses that Python is ready for business.  I suspect the existence of 
> even a skeletal site would attract contributions to build it further.
> 
> Correspondingly, perhaps there should also be a
> science(or scitech or learning).python.org with pages on Astronomy, 
> Bioscience, Chemistry, Mathematics, Education, etc.  Perhaps the scipy and 
> other science application groups would help.
> 
> With two subsites for the main application areas, this would leave 
> www.python.org to focus on the language itself.
> 
> Terry J. Reedy
> 
> 
> 
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[Python-Dev] Re: Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places

[Terry Reedy]

For a subsite aimed at businesses, business.python.org is obvious and 
easily remembered.  Not all businesses are corporations.  'about' and 'why' 
are not specific at all.

I think such a subsite, linked from the main site also, would be a good 
idea.  It should explain both why (including success stories) and how 
(including employment/contracting) to use Python in business.  Pieces could 
come from the existing site.

I think the mere existence of such a site would constitute a message to 
businesses that Python is ready for business.  I suspect the existence of 
even a skeletal site would attract contributions to build it further.

Correspondingly, perhaps there should also be a
science(or scitech or learning).python.org with pages on Astronomy, 
Bioscience, Chemistry, Mathematics, Education, etc.  Perhaps the scipy and 
other science application groups would help.

With two subsites for the main application areas, this would leave 
www.python.org to focus on the language itself.

Terry J. Reedy



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Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places

[Keith Dart]

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
On Sun, Dec 12, 2004 at 03:32:03PM -0200, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
Of course, the point here is not Perl-bashing. The point here is that
we should be able to "sell" Python better than we do now, even without
the need to resort to such poor measures. I'm sure the Python
community does have good & creative people that can write a good
"selling" FAQ for Python, emphasizing the main points of the language.

No one disagrees that Python needs better marketing material.  At the
last PyCon a group of people sat down in a pydotorg BoF and agreed
that yes, we do need a management-friendly marketing site, and that we
could put it on a separate hostname (something.python.org) so that the
current www.python.org wouldn't have to be changed.
However, no one has actually sat down and written such a site, or even
outlined it.  Let me encourage you to go ahead and do that.  You could
draft the outline on a Wiki page, and then later figure out an
attractive design and organization for a new site.

Whatever it looks like, it should probably run on Zope plus Plone. 8-) 
You know... eat your own dog food. 8-)

The kind folks over at Zettai! have provided some space for me. Perhaps 
they will be glad to host the main Python site, as well?


--
   \/ \/
   (O O)
-- oOOo~(_)~oOOo
Keith Dart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
vcard: 
public key: ID: F3D288E4   URL: 

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Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places

[Oleg Broytmann]

On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 10:21:58PM -0800, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
> suggested hostname: why.python.org

   It's only a matter of taste, probably, but that looks a bit ugly for
my eyes. May be use.python.org? corp.python.org?

Oleg.
-- 
 Oleg Broytmannhttp://phd.pp.ru/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places

[Nick Coghlan]

Oleg Broytmann wrote:
On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 10:21:58PM -0800, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
suggested hostname: why.python.org

   It's only a matter of taste, probably, but that looks a bit ugly for
my eyes. May be use.python.org? corp.python.org?
about.python.org?
And if someone ends up playing with the DNS server, maybe they could add 
wiki.python.org while they're at it :)

Cheers,
Nick.
--
Nick Coghlan   |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |   Brisbane, Australia
---
http://boredomandlaziness.skystorm.net
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[Python-Dev] Re: Python in education

[Terry Reedy]

"Randy Chung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm going to be leading a class on Python at the University of 
> California, Berkeley next semester (starting in January).

Great.

>  I'm  interested in using actual bugs in Python as exercises

Please consider including review of existing patches.  Besides being 
useful, it will also teach students how to submit good patches of their 
own.

Your primary choice is whether to work on changes in the C code for the 
interpreter and builtin modules or changes in the Python code in standard 
library modules.  The former would be more appropriate for a class on 
application programming in C, so I suggest the latter for learning Python 
programming.  Besides which, improving the library will probably be a focus 
of the just-starting 2.5 cycle.

You can access existing patch and bug lists via 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470

For each, you can narrow list by selecting, for instance, Category 'Python 
Library'.

Terry J. Reedy



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Re: [Python-Dev] MinGW And The other Py2.4 issue

["Martin v. Löwis"]

Paul Moore wrote:
For a starter, what steps do you actually take to build a release? I
assume that the first step is to build Python, by clicking on "build"
in VS.NET. 
Yes. You can skip this step by just putting all the .pyds, dlls, and
.exes into the PCbuild directory. The packaging will try to pick them
up from there (and proceed if some are missing, like Tcl likely will).
> Once you have that, is there a single script you run?
Yes. Invoke Tools\msi\msi.py, using a Python that has pythonwin (i.e.
COM interopability). The only tricky part is that you need cabarc.exe,
which is included in VC, and in the platform SDK.
If
there's a document describing the release process somewhere, feel free
to point me at it.
Tools/msi/README.txt
Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Python in education

[Brett C.]

Terry Reedy wrote:
"Randy Chung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[SNIP]
I'm  interested in using actual bugs in Python as exercises

Please consider including review of existing patches.  Besides being 
useful, it will also teach students how to submit good patches of their 
own.

To go along with this suggestion, see http://www.python.org/dev/dev_intro.html 
for the basic overview of what a review tends to consist of.

-Brett
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Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places

[Stephan Deibel]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Aahz wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2004, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
> >Attribution deleted:
> >> 
> >> No one disagrees that Python needs better marketing material.  At the
> >> last PyCon a group of people sat down in a pydotorg BoF and agreed
> >> that yes, we do need a management-friendly marketing site, and that we
> >> could put it on a separate hostname (something.python.org) so that the
> >> current www.python.org wouldn't have to be changed.
> >> 
> >> However, no one has actually sat down and written such a site, or even
> >> outlined it.  Let me encourage you to go ahead and do that.  You could
> >> draft the outline on a Wiki page, and then later figure out an
> >> attractive design and organization for a new site.
> > 
> > suggested hostname: why.python.org
> 
> This is where the process always gets bogged down.  :-(  Once we have
> material, that's the time to start arguing about where it should go.

Absolutely.  Content first, details later.

Incidentally, I keep offering:  Anyone that actually takes this on should
feel free to rip off content from http://wingware.com/python -- I'm not
saying this is the best content or the most complete but it's a start
anyway (I wrote it in case that wasn't clear ;-)

Incidentally, if someone does get excited about working on this, check
with me or another PSF board member.

- Stephan
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