Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Kenneth Cote]

You are headed in the wrong direction Mike. Follow your bliss.


On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 8:02:09 PM UTC-7, Mike Shaljian wrote:
>
> Here's the one good shot I have of the Jones Plus in action (smartphone 
> currently broken). The new Google Groups layout makes me want to scream 
> doing anything more than posting, so I have no idea how to add a picture 
> in-line. Here it is on imgur though: http://imgur.com/grpsWwg 
>
> Riding bliss begins where the pavement ends!

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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Tim Gavin]

I'm also a big fan of the Jones Loop H-bar.  It's a very versatile bar --
which there are few of in MTB-size 22.2 grip diameter.

Pros:
It has the wide control of a flat or bullmoose bar, but more rearward sweep
(45 degrees).  Less sweep than an Albatross bar, so more usable in
technical situations
It has an additional "aero" grip position on the forward loop, and the grip
section is so long that you have both inner and outer grip positions.  I
think the "rest/climb" position closest to the stem is unusable (same on
moustache bars), except for a place to occasionally rest a hand when
cruising (or to mount accessories).
[image: hbar-hand-positions-new.jpg]
Cons:
Expensive, hard to find.  Jones is usually out of stock, so the best source
is a used take-off from the Surly ECR (which spec'd them stock)
Only available in 31.8 mm stem clamp diameter, so they're not quill stem
friendly.
Not very Rivish in style (black only), but Rivish in mission (country
bikes).


I think the Loop H-bar feels perfect for my fat bike, which is tasked to
ride both technical single track and distance riding (gravel, winter
commuting).  I actually prefer it to the stock (very wide) flat bars,
because those flat bars kept getting caught on saplings at the edge of our
narrow singletrack, and spilling me off the bike!  The 45 degree sweep of
the Jones bar allows this accidental impact to glance off the bars without
wresting steering control from me.

I'm tempted to mount a pair of bar ends in the "aero" extension as upright
"bull bars", but I've never seen bar ends with an open (2-bolt) or hinged
clamp.

On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Mike Shaljian 
wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> My intuition would be that his Spaceframe or diamond frame models would
> work better with a drop bar and perhaps be more optimized for road riding.
> The thing to do is call them up, as Jeff is usually available and always
> happy to talk at length about his bikes and how they would match up with
> your specific goals.
>
> I have to say though, I am really impressed with the Jones H-bar setup. If
> I want to go into a full aero position, I just put my hands at the forward
> crossbar and my arms can rest completely on the regular grip section of the
> 710mm bar, feels very natural. It looks like a dorky beach cruiser bar at
> first, but it has a number of great positions and I think Jeff would tell
> you that his geometry is designed specifically to work with the H-bar.
>
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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Mike Shaljian]

Patrick,

My intuition would be that his Spaceframe or diamond frame models would work 
better with a drop bar and perhaps be more optimized for road riding. The thing 
to do is call them up, as Jeff is usually available and always happy to talk at 
length about his bikes and how they would match up with your specific goals. 

I have to say though, I am really impressed with the Jones H-bar setup. If I 
want to go into a full aero position, I just put my hands at the forward 
crossbar and my arms can rest completely on the regular grip section of the 
710mm bar, feels very natural. It looks like a dorky beach cruiser bar at 
first, but it has a number of great positions and I think Jeff would tell you 
that his geometry is designed specifically to work with the H-bar. 

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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Patrick Moore]

Mike: add me as another person who wants to know more about your Jones.

Does/can he/she/they make a model apt for drop bars?

On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 9:20 PM, Mike Shaljian 
wrote:

> I'll also add that it's interesting to me how the fat tire deal really
> grows on you (or me) rather quickly and it wasn't long before even the
> 3-inchers felt pretty much normal. I remember looking at a Krampus with 3"
> knards in the Universal Cycles showroom in Portland and thinking "my god,
> what have I done. . .", ordering a 29+ Jones creation basically on faith. I
> chose not to ask to test ride the Surly (since it was raining and I had no
> intention of buying one) and just told myself the exuberant JJ praise on
> the internet must be real. So glad I was an early adopter of the Plus.
>
>  On my test ride with the Super Motos the 60mm tires even felt a little
> clownish. However, the wider = more rolling resistance thing really is a
> (false) matter of perception with the right setup, and it wasn't long
> before I was in love with the inherent suppleness and stability of a truly
> fat tire. No fear of washing out on fast gravel descents is so great. When
> I get a bottle dynamo and switchover my light system and rear rack from the
> Hillborne this will really be the bike I longed for but didn't think was
> possible: fast, tough, stable and packable/fendered(?)/tour-able.
>
> Another big difference (which no longer feels novel) is how the greater
> inertia of the heavier wheelset makes cruising feel effortless on flat to
> low-grade sections. Also, Jeff Jones mentions the somewhat
> abstract-sounding concept of "riding in the bike" on his website, but this
> bike really does feel more like an extension of my body and the ride is
> just a lot of fun because everything is so much easier on the body.
>
> I'll try and get some more pictures this weekend with the Plus in its
> natural singletrack surroundings!
>
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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Mike Shaljian]

I'll also add that it's interesting to me how the fat tire deal really grows on 
you (or me) rather quickly and it wasn't long before even the 3-inchers felt 
pretty much normal. I remember looking at a Krampus with 3" knards in the 
Universal Cycles showroom in Portland and thinking "my god, what have I done. . 
.", ordering a 29+ Jones creation basically on faith. I chose not to ask to 
test ride the Surly (since it was raining and I had no intention of buying one) 
and just told myself the exuberant JJ praise on the internet must be real. So 
glad I was an early adopter of the Plus. 

 On my test ride with the Super Motos the 60mm tires even felt a little 
clownish. However, the wider = more rolling resistance thing really is a 
(false) matter of perception with the right setup, and it wasn't long before I 
was in love with the inherent suppleness and stability of a truly fat tire. No 
fear of washing out on fast gravel descents is so great. When I get a bottle 
dynamo and switchover my light system and rear rack from the Hillborne this 
will really be the bike I longed for but didn't think was possible: fast, 
tough, stable and packable/fendered(?)/tour-able. 

Another big difference (which no longer feels novel) is how the greater inertia 
of the heavier wheelset makes cruising feel effortless on flat to low-grade 
sections. Also, Jeff Jones mentions the somewhat  abstract-sounding concept of 
"riding in the bike" on his website, but this bike really does feel more like 
an extension of my body and the ride is just a lot of fun because everything is 
so much easier on the body. 

I'll try and get some more pictures this weekend with the Plus in its natural 
singletrack surroundings!

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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Mike Shaljian]

Here's the one good shot I have of the Jones Plus in action (smartphone 
currently broken). The new Google Groups layout makes me want to scream doing 
anything more than posting, so I have no idea how to add a picture in-line. 
Here it is on imgur though: http://imgur.com/grpsWwg

Riding bliss begins where the pavement ends!

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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Bill]

Yeah, Mike.  The Jones Plus is an itch I may have to scratch some day. 
 Pictures, please.

On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 9:14:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Daume wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> I'd love to see some pictures of your Jones Plus.
>
> Eric, who just bought a new/used frame, but, you know...
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Mike Shaljian  > wrote:
>
>> My perfect number of bikes is a JoNes Plus ;)
>>
>>  I initially set up the bike with (tubed) Super Motos to see how it 
>> faired as a more road-orientated bike, and I was blown away by how fast, 
>> comfortable and stable it was, once I got the cockpit setup properly. I've 
>> since been riding it with 3" Bontrager Chupacabras and am very pleased with 
>> how well those roll on the road for my commuting, but the real joy is 
>> unleashing it on the trails and gravel. It's amazing how much ease you can 
>> ride with in the 29+ setup, has to be experienced to really be understood. 
>> The 38's on my Sam now feel strikingly skinny and I really can't imagine 
>> riding a tire skinnier than 60mm and above 20 PSI anymore. Fatter is 
>> better, and definitely no slower!
>>
>> I'm going to put together a second wheelset soon and try to run the Super 
>> Motos tubeless, and I'm hoping it will be noticeably faster/funner than 
>> before. Tubeless really seems like the way to go to me, just so much less 
>> hassle and a nicer ride at lower pressure than the clincher approach, it 
>> seems. Before someone chirps in with "it's not a race, just enjoy the ride. 
>> . ." I'll make a pre-emptive strike and say that some of us are in a state 
>> of enjoyment when riding fast, though not in competition with some Peloton 
>> Freds!
>>
>> As much fun as I've had in the thousands and thousands of miles on my 
>> Rivendells, I think Jeff Jones has just made a punctuated equillibrium-type 
>> jump in the biking world with this design. It seems to be a more than 
>> capable bikepacking bike, a plenty agile and stout mountain bike, and a 
>> freakishly fast all-road bike, all-in-one.
>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

['Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I always love this discussion. And everyone is right. I think I could get by 
quite nicely with just my Hilsen, but...I have a Hunq and Roadeo (although the 
Roadeo is at home in KC with me in CT.) And I perk up when I see Quikbeam FS 
ads on the list. And I'm pretty sure that a Bike Friday is in my future and how 
can I get by without a cargo bike...N+1 for me. But if I did just have the 
Hilsen, I think I'd want 3 wheelsets like Patrick Moore once had. 

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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Eric Daume]

Mike,

I'd love to see some pictures of your Jones Plus.

Eric, who just bought a new/used frame, but, you know...

On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Mike Shaljian 
wrote:

> My perfect number of bikes is a JoNes Plus ;)
>
>  I initially set up the bike with (tubed) Super Motos to see how it faired
> as a more road-orientated bike, and I was blown away by how fast,
> comfortable and stable it was, once I got the cockpit setup properly. I've
> since been riding it with 3" Bontrager Chupacabras and am very pleased with
> how well those roll on the road for my commuting, but the real joy is
> unleashing it on the trails and gravel. It's amazing how much ease you can
> ride with in the 29+ setup, has to be experienced to really be understood.
> The 38's on my Sam now feel strikingly skinny and I really can't imagine
> riding a tire skinnier than 60mm and above 20 PSI anymore. Fatter is
> better, and definitely no slower!
>
> I'm going to put together a second wheelset soon and try to run the Super
> Motos tubeless, and I'm hoping it will be noticeably faster/funner than
> before. Tubeless really seems like the way to go to me, just so much less
> hassle and a nicer ride at lower pressure than the clincher approach, it
> seems. Before someone chirps in with "it's not a race, just enjoy the ride.
> . ." I'll make a pre-emptive strike and say that some of us are in a state
> of enjoyment when riding fast, though not in competition with some Peloton
> Freds!
>
> As much fun as I've had in the thousands and thousands of miles on my
> Rivendells, I think Jeff Jones has just made a punctuated equillibrium-type
> jump in the biking world with this design. It seems to be a more than
> capable bikepacking bike, a plenty agile and stout mountain bike, and a
> freakishly fast all-road bike, all-in-one.
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Mike Shaljian]

My perfect number of bikes is a JoNes Plus ;)

 I initially set up the bike with (tubed) Super Motos to see how it faired as a 
more road-orientated bike, and I was blown away by how fast, comfortable and 
stable it was, once I got the cockpit setup properly. I've since been riding it 
with 3" Bontrager Chupacabras and am very pleased with how well those roll on 
the road for my commuting, but the real joy is unleashing it on the trails and 
gravel. It's amazing how much ease you can ride with in the 29+ setup, has to 
be experienced to really be understood. The 38's on my Sam now feel strikingly 
skinny and I really can't imagine riding a tire skinnier than 60mm and above 20 
PSI anymore. Fatter is better, and definitely no slower!

I'm going to put together a second wheelset soon and try to run the Super Motos 
tubeless, and I'm hoping it will be noticeably faster/funner than before. 
Tubeless really seems like the way to go to me, just so much less hassle and a 
nicer ride at lower pressure than the clincher approach, it seems. Before 
someone chirps in with "it's not a race, just enjoy the ride. . ." I'll make a 
pre-emptive strike and say that some of us are in a state of enjoyment when 
riding fast, though not in competition with some Peloton Freds!

As much fun as I've had in the thousands and thousands of miles on my 
Rivendells, I think Jeff Jones has just made a punctuated equillibrium-type 
jump in the biking world with this design. It seems to be a more than capable 
bikepacking bike, a plenty agile and stout mountain bike, and a freakishly fast 
all-road bike, all-in-one. 

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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Richard Rios]

I have come to accept that no matter how many bikes I have curiosity is always 
going to get the best of me. So for me it is always the n?. But I really try to 
keep it at four which is my imaginary perfect number with that including. A 
single speed, a roadish bike, an allarounder, and a mountain bike.

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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Deacon Patrick]

Rodeo's tire clearance is too narrow for the roads and trails I piece 
together. Legolas, Sam, or Homer for tire clearances of at least 40mm.

But the point I was poorly attempting to make, is that even the endeavour 
to be content with what is until circumstances allow otherwise opens a 
treasure chest of riches unexpected.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Perfect number of bikes = N?

[Patrick Moore]

Patrick: I predict that in a couple of years you'll end up with a Roadeo. I
myself have tried any number of bike combinations, with a high of 6 to a
low of 1 (but with triple wheelsets). I'm now stabilized, one hopes, at the
statutory minimum of 3:

Fun to ride unladen/load carrying/fender equipped/dynamo equipped all
rounder.
Light as possible gofast.
Off road bike.

I could add any number of hypotheticals: fatbike, Ravn, nimble singletrack
26er,Monocog 29er, folder, fun to ride beater, classic stage racer, racing
trike, recumbent, e-bike -- just kidding about the last 2. But with the
soon (God willing) S3X optional rear wheel for the all rounder, which will
take the place of the Ram, I think this is a pretty good number for my own
particular uses -- 75% errand detours, occasional gofast hill climb, dirt
road riding.

But I am biased toward performance road bikes, even if I forego multiple
gears most of the time.

... Tho' I am seriously thinking about a load-capable, fixed gear, drop
barred folder ...

On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> I always try (rarely succeed) to practice contentment. I’m content with
> that. Grin. Part of living this simplicity is to strive to find a way to
> make what we have work. It may not be the perfect tool, but using one thing
> multiple ways has a joy all it’s own.
>
> Since sometime this winter I’ve wanted a go-fast geared country bike. But
> we (wisely) put our money toward gearing up for family biking. The
> challenge has been could I do longer rides on the Quickbeam? So far, I’ve
> done as long as 94 miles, 2/3rds of it dirt, and returned still feeling I
> could have pushed and done 120 miles (but pushing to that degree isn’t wise
> given the brain injury and my extra safety net I like to keep). Pushing to
> ride the QB this way has led me to discover things about riding and about
> my own strength and endurance I may not have discovered on a geared bike.
> That is wonderful gift of simplicity, finding more in less.
>
> So I am content, for now, with N. There is joy and peace in that,
> especially considering I know it makes getting bikes for my wife and
> lassies possible. Of course, that is also what I said when N was just the
> Hunqapillar. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org *
> *www.OurHolyConception.org *
>
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*
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle

*The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante

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