[sage-devel] Re: coercing of sqrt(2)
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Bill Page <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 11:06 PM, William Stein wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Bill Page wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote: David's explanation of this is right on. We need parent() to work in some sensible way on non-Elements (e.g. Python ints, objects from outside Sage) to be able do some kind of coercion reasoning on them. Python is a dynamically typed language, ever object has a type. >>> >>> So is this essentially an admission that the concept of 'parent' is >>> superfluous and could have in fact been implemented just as >>> Python 'type'? >> >> That is not the case, except that of course *anything* that can >> be implemented, can be implemented in any turing complete >> language. >> > > I did not mean to pose this question in a trivial way. I meant to > suggest that the concept of type in the Python programming language, > i.e. classes, could directly implement the concept of "parent" as used > in Sage without abusing either concept at all. Can you suggest an > example that demonstrates that this is not the case? I think Robert's example of the integers modulo n is an excellent example of precisely this. I'm confused about why you don't see this. > >> ... >> There are infinitely many different parents, one of each value >> of n. For a given n, the ring Z/nZ is a specific mathematical >> object, which is itself for many many reasons worth modeling >> in a computer. If nothing else, it is the place on which to hang >> functions like "multiplicative_generator()". > > Python classes can also take parameters. I didn't know that. I thought the only way to create a Python class is for the Python interpreter to execute Python code that looks like this: class Foo(...): ... That makes a new class called Foo. How are you going to make, at runtime, new classes for each of Z/nZ say, for 1 <= n < 10^5, i.e., something like this in Sage: v = [Integers(n) for n in range(1,10^5)] I do not think it is possible to concisely create a hundred thousand separate Python classes like that. >> Any computer algebra system that doesn't have first class >> actual objects that represent basic mathematical structures >> such as rings, fields, etc., feels extremely barren if one has >> used Magma for a sufficient amount of time. >> > > Sure. Rings and fields are categories. I meant "Rings" and "fields" not as categories but specific rings and specified fields as mathematical objects in their own right. In Magma and Sage there is virtually no difference between "a polynomial ring over the rational numbers" and a specific polynomial over the rationals -- both are first class instances in exactly the same way. > Magma was not the first system > to represent these mathematical structures in a computer. I believe Magma was the first to very systematically represent the objects of the categories as first class objects systematically throughout the system. I know of no other system that does this (except Sage). > >> Specific rings, fields, vector spaces, etc., are all basic objects of >> mathematics, that are just as important to fully implement and >> model in a CAS as polynomials, rational numbers, vectors, etc. >> I firmly believe Magma was the first ever system to really get this >> right, and Sage merely copies this. I really greatly appreciate >> what Cannon et al. did... >> > > I am sure Magma is an interesting system - everything I have been > reading about it confirms that - but I do not think it was the first. > I am also not yet convinced that it has implemented these general > mathematically concepts in any substantially better way then, for > example Axiom. I think Magma is brilliant. Disclaimer: I used to be one of the biggest Magma zealots on the planet, so take that with a grain of salt! It is also not my intention here to make any negative comments at all about Axiom (say) -- only positive comments about Magma. > Some things it does seem peculiar and ad hoc to me. > These are the things that standout in my mind when I think about in > what ways Sage resembles Magma. Of course there are some specific > computations that Magma does much more efficiently than any other > system. But that is not the point. We are talking here about general > design issues. Yet efficiency and design are closely linked. When I first started using Magma after years and years of C++, I was amazed how they were able to unify so many ideas and bring such a vast amount of quality code together in a way that worked pretty well. I soon started writing, in the Magma interpreter, vastly more efficient code than I could ever write in C++, and code that accomplished a lot more. Much of this was for me directly a result of the excellent design ideas that went into Magma. This was a real eye opener for me. >> ... >>> "SymbolicRing" is another thing that worries me a li
[sage-devel] Re: coercing of sqrt(2)
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 11:06 PM, William Stein wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Bill Page wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote: >>> >>> David's explanation of this is right on. We need parent() to work >>> in some sensible way on non-Elements (e.g. Python ints, objects >>> from outside Sage) to be able do some kind of coercion reasoning >>> on them. Python is a dynamically typed language, ever object has >>> a type. >> >> So is this essentially an admission that the concept of 'parent' is >> superfluous and could have in fact been implemented just as >> Python 'type'? > > That is not the case, except that of course *anything* that can > be implemented, can be implemented in any turing complete > language. > I did not mean to pose this question in a trivial way. I meant to suggest that the concept of type in the Python programming language, i.e. classes, could directly implement the concept of "parent" as used in Sage without abusing either concept at all. Can you suggest an example that demonstrates that this is not the case? > ... > There are infinitely many different parents, one of each value > of n. For a given n, the ring Z/nZ is a specific mathematical > object, which is itself for many many reasons worth modeling > in a computer. If nothing else, it is the place on which to hang > functions like "multiplicative_generator()". Python classes can also take parameters. > Any computer algebra system that doesn't have first class > actual objects that represent basic mathematical structures > such as rings, fields, etc., feels extremely barren if one has > used Magma for a sufficient amount of time. > Sure. Rings and fields are categories. Magma was not the first system to represent these mathematical structures in a computer. > Specific rings, fields, vector spaces, etc., are all basic objects of > mathematics, that are just as important to fully implement and > model in a CAS as polynomials, rational numbers, vectors, etc. > I firmly believe Magma was the first ever system to really get this > right, and Sage merely copies this. I really greatly appreciate > what Cannon et al. did... > I am sure Magma is an interesting system - everything I have been reading about it confirms that - but I do not think it was the first. I am also not yet convinced that it has implemented these general mathematically concepts in any substantially better way then, for example Axiom. Some things it does seem peculiar and ad hoc to me. These are the things that standout in my mind when I think about in what ways Sage resembles Magma. Of course there are some specific computations that Magma does much more efficiently than any other system. But that is not the point. We are talking here about general design issues. > ... >> "SymbolicRing" is another thing that worries me a little. Exactly >> what (mathematically) is a symbolic ring? E.g. Why is it a ring >> and not a field? Operations like 'sin(sin(sin(x))).parent()' doesn't >> look much like a ring to me. Probably most other computer algebra >> systems would just call this an "expression tree" or AST or >> something like that. > ... > To me, the SymbolicRing is the mathematical structure in which > calculus teachers, engineers, etc., are kept happy. In Sage > that was 100% its purpose. Ask Marshall Hampton, who is teaching > calculus right now using Sage, about what he needs to make > teaching calculus easy, and the answer is "The Symbolic Ring", > plus graphics and interact. > I don't doubt that doing symbolic mathematics by computer is very useful for teaching calculus - after all that is what is normally meant by the term "calculus", i.e. a method of calculation based on the symbolic manipulation of expressions. The name "Symbolic Ring" however makes it sound more "algebraic",i.e. concerned with structure, relation and quantity. So I was looking for a more formal mathematical definition of this sort. I did not expect it was a name intended just to keep certain people happy. :-( > ... Regards, Bill Page. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: coercing of sqrt(2)
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Bill Page <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote: >> >> On Jun 4, 2008, at 4:07 AM, Bill Page wrote: >> ... >>> >>> These seem consistent to me, albeit rather complex. However I am >>> not sure I understand the following: >>> >>> sage: parent(IntegerRing()) >>> >>> sage: parent(RealField()) >>> >>> >>> Could you explain why the parent of an object of some category is a >>> type? >> >> David's explanation of this is right on. We need parent() to work in >> some sensible way on non-Elements (e.g. Python ints, objects from >> outside Sage) to be able do some kind of coercion reasoning on them. >> Python is a dynamically typed language, ever object has a type. >> > > So is this essentially an admission that the concept of 'parent' is > superfluous and could have in fact been implemented just at Python > 'type'? That is not the case, except that of course *anything* that can be implemented, can be implemented in any turing complete language. > I am not sure that I would actually advocate this now, but for > argument's sake: Why not do it this way all of the time? Python > classes all end up as (potential) parents. I think that this more or > less is what at least some Magma developers had in mind. E.g. We read > in the preface to the Magma HTML Help Document: > > http://magma.maths.usyd.edu.au/magma/htmlhelp/preface.htm > > "Every object created during the course of a computation is associated > with a unique parent algebraic structure. The type of an object is > then simply its parent structure." > You took that quote out of context. The full quote is: "The theoretical basis for the design of Magma is founded on the concepts and methodology of modern algebra. The central notion is that of an algebraic structure. Every object created during the course of a computation is associated with a unique parent algebraic structure. The type of an object is then simply its parent structure." The word "type" is being used in a formal sense as defined in the excellent paper "The Magma Algebra System I: The User Language" by Bosma, Cannon, and Playoust. >> ... >> One should think of the type of an object as what specifies its >> implementation (including its internal representation). In this sense >> it is like a class in Java, C++, or any other programming language. >> (In Python there is a subtle (and mostly historical) difference >> between types and classes depending on whether or not it's written >> in C, but for the most part they can be used interchangeably). >> Python has multiple inheritance, but Cython does not (the C >> format of a compiled Python class is a C struct, so this is not so >> much a Cython limitation as a Python/C API limitation.) >> > > The lack of multiple inheritance in Cython seems to be a major design > obstacle. Although a C struct is not a real class, it is not clear to > me why this is not adequate in compiled code. Wouldn't it be > sufficient to merge (flatten) the components of the multiple ancesters > into one struct? If not (e.g. if it is necessary to retain some > knowledge of their origins), why not provide nested structs? But I > suppose that this is quite off-topic... > >> Most of the time there is a 1-to-1 correspondence between Parents >> and the types of its Elements. For example, and element of the Parent >> RR (= RealField(53) is represented by sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealNumber. >> If I do RR(3) I get back an object of type sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealNumber >> representing the floating point number 3 to 53 bits of precision, and it's >> Parent is RR. RealField (100) is a new Parent, whose elements are >> again of type sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealNumber but to 100 bits of >> precision. >> >> Sometimes, however, the same type is used for multiple parents. >> There are several integer mod types (depending on whether or not >> the modulus fits in a single word) and they are used for both generic >> Z/nZ and prime-order finite fields. Thus we have >> >> sage: [type(mod(-1, 100^k)) for k in [2..5]] >> [, >> , >> , >> ] >> >> sage: [parent(mod(-1, 100^k)) for k in [2..5]] >> [Ring of integers modulo 1, >> Ring of integers modulo 100, >> Ring of integers modulo 1, >> Ring of integers modulo 100] >> > > Hmmm... what I think I see here is multiple Python types (_int, > _int64, _gmp) being used for the *same* parent, i.e. "Ring of integers > modulo n" (for some parameter n). Simple inheritance should make this > easy, no? There are infinitely many different parents, one of each value of n. For a given n, the ring Z/nZ is a specific mathematical object, which is itself for many many reasons worth modeling in a computer. If nothing else, it is the place on which to hang functions like "multiplicative_generator()". Any computer algebra system that doesn't have first class actual objects that represent basic mathematical structures such as rings, fields, etc., feels extremely ba
[sage-devel] Re: coercing of sqrt(2)
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote: > > On Jun 4, 2008, at 4:07 AM, Bill Page wrote: > ... >> >> These seem consistent to me, albeit rather complex. However I am >> not sure I understand the following: >> >> sage: parent(IntegerRing()) >> >> sage: parent(RealField()) >> >> >> Could you explain why the parent of an object of some category is a >> type? > > David's explanation of this is right on. We need parent() to work in > some sensible way on non-Elements (e.g. Python ints, objects from > outside Sage) to be able do some kind of coercion reasoning on them. > Python is a dynamically typed language, ever object has a type. > So is this essentially an admission that the concept of 'parent' is superfluous and could have in fact been implemented just at Python 'type'? I am not sure that I would actually advocate this now, but for argument's sake: Why not do it this way all of the time? Python classes all end up as (potential) parents. I think that this more or less is what at least some Magma developers had in mind. E.g. We read in the preface to the Magma HTML Help Document: http://magma.maths.usyd.edu.au/magma/htmlhelp/preface.htm "Every object created during the course of a computation is associated with a unique parent algebraic structure. The type of an object is then simply its parent structure." > ... > One should think of the type of an object as what specifies its > implementation (including its internal representation). In this sense > it is like a class in Java, C++, or any other programming language. > (In Python there is a subtle (and mostly historical) difference > between types and classes depending on whether or not it's written > in C, but for the most part they can be used interchangeably). > Python has multiple inheritance, but Cython does not (the C > format of a compiled Python class is a C struct, so this is not so > much a Cython limitation as a Python/C API limitation.) > The lack of multiple inheritance in Cython seems to be a major design obstacle. Although a C struct is not a real class, it is not clear to me why this is not adequate in compiled code. Wouldn't it be sufficient to merge (flatten) the components of the multiple ancesters into one struct? If not (e.g. if it is necessary to retain some knowledge of their origins), why not provide nested structs? But I suppose that this is quite off-topic... > Most of the time there is a 1-to-1 correspondence between Parents > and the types of its Elements. For example, and element of the Parent > RR (= RealField(53) is represented by sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealNumber. > If I do RR(3) I get back an object of type sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealNumber > representing the floating point number 3 to 53 bits of precision, and it's > Parent is RR. RealField (100) is a new Parent, whose elements are > again of type sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealNumber but to 100 bits of > precision. > > Sometimes, however, the same type is used for multiple parents. > There are several integer mod types (depending on whether or not > the modulus fits in a single word) and they are used for both generic > Z/nZ and prime-order finite fields. Thus we have > > sage: [type(mod(-1, 100^k)) for k in [2..5]] > [, > , > , > ] > > sage: [parent(mod(-1, 100^k)) for k in [2..5]] > [Ring of integers modulo 1, > Ring of integers modulo 100, > Ring of integers modulo 1, > Ring of integers modulo 100] > Hmmm... what I think I see here is multiple Python types (_int, _int64, _gmp) being used for the *same* parent, i.e. "Ring of integers modulo n" (for some parameter n). Simple inheritance should make this easy, no? > On the other hand, some parents may have elements of several > types. The "SymbolicRing" is one such example. > > sage: [type(a) for a in v] > [, > , > , > ] > > sage: [parent(a) for a in v] > [Symbolic Ring, Symbolic Ring, Symbolic Ring, Symbolic Ring] > "SymbolicRing" is another thing that worries me a little. Exactly what (mathematically) is a symbolic ring? E.g. Why is it a ring and not a field? Operations like 'sin(sin(sin(x))).parent()' doesn't look much like a ring to me. Probably most other computer algebra systems would just call this an "expression tree" or AST or something like that. Why do we need different types (sub-classes)? >> From my experience with Axiom I am sympathetic to the separation of >> implementation and specification but in Axiom "domains" are both >> parents and types. A domain can inherit it's implementation from >> another domain (via add). A domain can also serve as the >> representation for some other domain (via Rep). For example >> IntegerMod(5) is the representation of PrimeField(5). IntegerMod(5) in >> turn is represented by SingleInteger, etc. > ... > This sounds like the correct analogy. In Sage as well elements of > prime finite fields are the same type as elements of Z/nZ for > composite n, but they have different parents. > To the best of my knowledge, the formal concept
[sage-devel] Re: new website
On Jun 4, 2008, at 6:09 PM, Harald Schilly wrote:
>> Also, under "Library", I don't know what "works" means.
>
> This was already a problem mentioned somewhere else. Very interesting.
> I looked it up in a dictionary and it is the correct translation.
> Maybe it is used differently? Or is the word "workings" better? You
> used it in "...and the previous (and ongoing) work of many authors of
> included components". I think, in German it has a broader meaning but
> is still the same word.
I think the word must be used differently in english. There is a
subtle distinction for example between "the works of Gauss" and "the
work of Gauss". The former is perhaps more like the German meaning
(I'm not speaking with any knowledge of German here); it refers to
the specific texts that Gauss wrote. The latter refers more generally
to the activities and research in which Gauss engaged. You can also
say "works of art" or "mathematical works of the 19th century", but
it sounds very strange to say "works" by itself without any further
context. I'm not completely sure why. It's just one of those weird
things.
("Workings" is much much worse.)
>
> What I mean is written (digital) text that has been done for, about
> and with Sage excluding development (howto's, papers, examples, ...) -
> that ends up in a collection, called library.
How is this different from the "Help" section?
david
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[sage-devel] Re: Another Solaris NTL problem
On Jun 5, 2:32 am, "Dr. David Kirkby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I set up a Sun Ultra 60 for testing of sage and have mailed a couple > of people passwords. I just checked this, and found another issue with > NTL on the Ultra 60 which I did not notice on the Blade 2000. > > It appears to fail with: > > "make: Fatal error in reader: makefile, line 522: Macro assignment on > dependency line" > > see below. > > This happens with both /usr/ccs/bin/make and gnu make. Not sure how > this differrs much from the other Sun. As far as I know, they have the > same compilers and make programs! > > x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/RemoveProg, 51 bytes, 1 tape blocks > x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/cfile, 15983 bytes, 32 tape blocks > x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/CharPolyTest.c, 213 bytes, 1 tape blocks > x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/pair_GF2EX_long.c, 385 bytes, 1 tape blocks > x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/DispSettings.c, 2197 bytes, 5 tape blocks > x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/pair_lzz_pX_long.c, 386 bytes, 1 tape blocks > Finished extraction > > Host system > uname -a: > SunOS main-webserver 5.10 Generic_120011-14 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-60 > > > GCC Version > gcc -v > Reading specs from /opt/csw/gcc4/lib/gcc/sparc-sun-solaris2.8/4.0.2/ > specs > Target: sparc-sun-solaris2.8 > Configured with: ../sources/gcc-4.0.2/configure --prefix=/opt/csw/gcc4 > --with-local-prefix=/opt/csw --without-gnu-as --with-as=/usr/ccs/bin/ > as --without-gnu-ld --with-ld=/usr/ccs/bin/ld --enable-threads=posix -- > enable-shared --enable-multilib --enable-nls --with-included-gettext -- > with-libiconv-prefix=/opt/csw --with-x --enable-java-awt=xlib --with- > system-zlib --enable-languages=c,c++,f95,java,objc,ada > Thread model: posix > gcc version 4.0.2 > > writing makefile > writing ../include/NTL/config.h > Building and install NTL > make: Fatal error in reader: makefile, line 522: Macro assignment on > dependency line > Current working directory /export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/spkg/build/ > ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src > Error creating ntl shared library. > > real0m0.307s > user0m0.122s > sys 0m0.171s > sage: An error occurred while installing ntl-5.4.2.p3 > Please email sage-develhttp://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel > explaining the problem and send the relevant part of > of /export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/install.log. Describe your > computer, operating system, etc. > If you want to try to fix the problem, yourself *don't* just cd to > /export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/spkg/build/ntl-5.4.2.p3 and type > 'make'. > Instead type "/export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/sage -sh" > in order to set all environment variables correctly, then cd to > /export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/spkg/build/ntl-5.4.2.p3 > (When you are done debugging, you can type "exit" to leave the > subshell.) > *** Error code 1 > make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `installed/ntl-5.4.2.p3' > Current working directory /export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/spkg > > real26:55.5 > user17:33.1 > sys 2:34.1 For what it is worth, this is line 522: shobj: FPICFLAG = -fPIC Perhaps I should have built it from scratch with gnu make. Anyway, I hope I've found a few things that hopefully someone has some idea how to fix!!! Dave --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Another Solaris NTL problem
I set up a Sun Ultra 60 for testing of sage and have mailed a couple of people passwords. I just checked this, and found another issue with NTL on the Ultra 60 which I did not notice on the Blade 2000. It appears to fail with: "make: Fatal error in reader: makefile, line 522: Macro assignment on dependency line" see below. This happens with both /usr/ccs/bin/make and gnu make. Not sure how this differrs much from the other Sun. As far as I know, they have the same compilers and make programs! x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/RemoveProg, 51 bytes, 1 tape blocks x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/cfile, 15983 bytes, 32 tape blocks x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/CharPolyTest.c, 213 bytes, 1 tape blocks x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/pair_GF2EX_long.c, 385 bytes, 1 tape blocks x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/DispSettings.c, 2197 bytes, 5 tape blocks x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/pair_lzz_pX_long.c, 386 bytes, 1 tape blocks Finished extraction Host system uname -a: SunOS main-webserver 5.10 Generic_120011-14 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-60 GCC Version gcc -v Reading specs from /opt/csw/gcc4/lib/gcc/sparc-sun-solaris2.8/4.0.2/ specs Target: sparc-sun-solaris2.8 Configured with: ../sources/gcc-4.0.2/configure --prefix=/opt/csw/gcc4 --with-local-prefix=/opt/csw --without-gnu-as --with-as=/usr/ccs/bin/ as --without-gnu-ld --with-ld=/usr/ccs/bin/ld --enable-threads=posix -- enable-shared --enable-multilib --enable-nls --with-included-gettext -- with-libiconv-prefix=/opt/csw --with-x --enable-java-awt=xlib --with- system-zlib --enable-languages=c,c++,f95,java,objc,ada Thread model: posix gcc version 4.0.2 writing makefile writing ../include/NTL/config.h Building and install NTL make: Fatal error in reader: makefile, line 522: Macro assignment on dependency line Current working directory /export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/spkg/build/ ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src Error creating ntl shared library. real0m0.307s user0m0.122s sys 0m0.171s sage: An error occurred while installing ntl-5.4.2.p3 Please email sage-devel http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel explaining the problem and send the relevant part of of /export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/install.log. Describe your computer, operating system, etc. If you want to try to fix the problem, yourself *don't* just cd to /export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/spkg/build/ntl-5.4.2.p3 and type 'make'. Instead type "/export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/sage -sh" in order to set all environment variables correctly, then cd to /export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/spkg/build/ntl-5.4.2.p3 (When you are done debugging, you can type "exit" to leave the subshell.) *** Error code 1 make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `installed/ntl-5.4.2.p3' Current working directory /export/home0/mabshoff/sage-3.0.2/spkg real26:55.5 user17:33.1 sys 2:34.1 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
On Jun 5, 12:36 am, Francois <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Spot on Michael. gcc config is given at the beginning of the > compilation and says: --without-gnu-ld --with-ld=/usr/ccs/bin/ld > > OK back to square one to put together a better patch. > It's at time like this that you start wishing everything was > auto/lib-tooled. > > Cheers, > Francois Feel free to log in and test your patch. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
On Jun 5, 12:05 am, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > g++ -I../include -I. -O2 -g -fPIC -fPIC -shared -Wl,-soname,lib`cat > > DIRNAME`.so -o lib`cat DIRNAME`.so FFT.o FacVec.o GF2.o GF2E.o GF2EX.o > > GF2EXFactoring.o GF2X.o GF2X1.o GF2XFactoring.o GF2XVec.o GetTime.o > > HNF.o ctools.o LLL.o LLL_FP.o LLL_QP.o LLL_RR.o LLL_XD.o RR.o > > WordVector.o ZZ.o ZZVec.o ZZX.o ZZX1.o ZZXCharPoly.o ZZXFactoring.o > > ZZ_p.o ZZ_pE.o ZZ_pEX.o ZZ_pEXFactoring.o ZZ_pX.o ZZ_pX1.o > > ZZ_pXCharPoly.o ZZ_pXFactoring.o fileio.o lip.o lzz_p.o lzz_pE.o > > lzz_pEX.o lzz_pEXFactoring.o lzz_pX.o lzz_pX1.o lzz_pXCharPoly.o > > lzz_pXFactoring.o mat_GF2.o mat_GF2E.o mat_RR.o mat_ZZ.o mat_ZZ_p.o > > mat_ZZ_pE.o mat_lzz_p.o mat_lzz_pE.o mat_poly_ZZ.o mat_poly_ZZ_p.o > > mat_poly_lzz_p.o pair_GF2EX_long.o pair_GF2X_long.o pair_ZZX_long.o > > pair_ZZ_pEX_long.o pair_ZZ_pX_long.o pair_lzz_pEX_long.o > > pair_lzz_pX_long.o quad_float.o tools.o vec_GF2.o vec_GF2E.o > > vec_GF2XVec.o vec_RR.o vec_ZZ.o vec_ZZVec.o vec_ZZ_p.o vec_ZZ_pE.o > > vec_double.o vec_long.o vec_lzz_p.o vec_lzz_pE.o vec_quad_float.o > > vec_vec_GF2.o vec_vec_GF2E.o vec_vec_RR.o vec_vec_ZZ.o vec_vec_ZZ_p.o > > vec_vec_ZZ_pE.o vec_vec_long.o vec_vec_lzz_p.o vec_vec_lzz_pE.o > > vec_xdouble.o xdouble.o G_LLL_FP.o G_LLL_QP.o G_LLL_XD.o G_LLL_RR.o > > vec_ulong.o vec_vec_ulong.o -L/export/home/drkirkby/sage-3.0.2/local/ > > lib -lgmp > > ld: warning: option -o appears more than once, first setting taken > > ld: fatal: file libntl-5.4.2.so: unknown file type > > ld: fatal: File processing errors. No output written to > > This rings a bell: Any chance your gcc was build using the Sun ld and > not the GNU ld? I would change > > -Wl,-soname,lib`cat DIRNAME`.so -o lib`cat DIRNAME`.so > > to > > -o libntl.so > > since the that does not work with the Sun ld IIRC. Yes, it was built with Sun's linker, not GNU's. Both Sunfeeware and Blastwave build it with that, and it's generally reckoned to work better than with the GNU linker. Hence it would be prefereable if you could avoid the GNU isms here. It's 1:35 am here, and time I sent to bed, so I am not going to look at this any more - time for bed. I doubt I'll get much chance tommorow later today either, as I am going out for the day and night. (But will have access via ssh during the day). I've set up another Sun (dual processor U;tra 60) and have emailed Francois some login details. > By now I am > actually thinking that we should not add "-Kl,-soname $FOO" & friends > to the default makefiles since those are GNU ld specific. GNU isms are the pain in the life of Solaris users!!! Dave --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
On Jun 5, 11:05 am, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 5, 12:56 am, "Dr. David Kirkby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > On Jun 4, 8:35 pm, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi David, > > > I don't believe the problem I was experiencing is anything to do with > > the shell, or how it is called. As Is said, I'm not using csh or tcsh > > as a login shell, but bash. > > Ok, but that bug also exists ;) > I am sure it does :) > > ld: warning: option -o appears more than once, first setting taken > > ld: fatal: file libntl-5.4.2.so: unknown file type > > ld: fatal: File processing errors. No output written to > > This rings a bell: Any chance your gcc was build using the Sun ld and > not the GNU ld? I would change > > -Wl,-soname,lib`cat DIRNAME`.so -o lib`cat DIRNAME`.so > > to > > -o libntl.so > > since the that does not work with the Sun ld IIRC. By now I am > actually thinking that we should not add "-Kl,-soname $FOO" & friends > to the default makefiles since those are GNU ld specific. > Spot on Michael. gcc config is given at the beginning of the compilation and says: --without-gnu-ld --with-ld=/usr/ccs/bin/ld OK back to square one to put together a better patch. It's at time like this that you start wishing everything was auto/lib-tooled. Cheers, Francois --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: parent of component of CartesianProduct
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 6:07 PM, William Stein wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Bill Page wrote: >> >> Is there any interest in also implementing the Co-product constructor? > > Yes. > >> What about Record and Union constructors? >> > > I don't know what those are (at least what Record is). > Records and Unions are products and co-products with named projections and injections. Records are like struct in C. Unions are sometimes called "tagged-unions" but that suggests a particular implementation detail rather than an essential feature. Union is also sometimes called a "variant-record". But in my opinion the semantics is best described in more categorical terms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record_(computer_science) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coproduct http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_(category_theory) Regards, Bill Page. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
On Jun 5, 12:56 am, "Dr. David Kirkby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On Jun 4, 8:35 pm, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi David,
> I don't believe the problem I was experiencing is anything to do with
> the shell, or how it is called. As Is said, I'm not using csh or tcsh
> as a login shell, but bash.
Ok, but that bug also exists ;)
> I believe Francois is much closer to the solution myself. I took out
> the test for SunOs, so do_make setup1, do_make setup2, do_make setup3
> and do_make setup4 were all run. i.e. I changed the do_tune() code to:
>
> do_tune()
> {
> do_make setup1
> do_make setup2
> do_make setup3
> do_make setup4
>
> }
>
> That works a LOT better, but it still fails to build, but that is a
> different issue. So I'm not convinced there is a need to exclude the
> setup routines on Solaris - whether they are useful or a waste of time
> is another matter, but they don't stop it building.
>
> I can't make any sence of the what is causing this to fail. The error
> message from the compiler says the -o option is given twice (which it
> is not)! It then says it does not know the file type for
> libntl-5.4.2.so. It seems to me the options to the compiler look
> sensible, so I don't understand its objection. It could be a compiler
> bug.
>
> Would anyone be in a better position to fix this if I made a Solaris
> (SPARC) machine available? This is my private machine and I don't wish
> to share it, but if it will be any help I could set up another SPARC
> with similar software on it.
>
> Dave
> g++ -I../include -I. -O2 -g -fPIC -fPIC -shared -Wl,-soname,lib`cat
> DIRNAME`.so -o lib`cat DIRNAME`.so FFT.o FacVec.o GF2.o GF2E.o GF2EX.o
> GF2EXFactoring.o GF2X.o GF2X1.o GF2XFactoring.o GF2XVec.o GetTime.o
> HNF.o ctools.o LLL.o LLL_FP.o LLL_QP.o LLL_RR.o LLL_XD.o RR.o
> WordVector.o ZZ.o ZZVec.o ZZX.o ZZX1.o ZZXCharPoly.o ZZXFactoring.o
> ZZ_p.o ZZ_pE.o ZZ_pEX.o ZZ_pEXFactoring.o ZZ_pX.o ZZ_pX1.o
> ZZ_pXCharPoly.o ZZ_pXFactoring.o fileio.o lip.o lzz_p.o lzz_pE.o
> lzz_pEX.o lzz_pEXFactoring.o lzz_pX.o lzz_pX1.o lzz_pXCharPoly.o
> lzz_pXFactoring.o mat_GF2.o mat_GF2E.o mat_RR.o mat_ZZ.o mat_ZZ_p.o
> mat_ZZ_pE.o mat_lzz_p.o mat_lzz_pE.o mat_poly_ZZ.o mat_poly_ZZ_p.o
> mat_poly_lzz_p.o pair_GF2EX_long.o pair_GF2X_long.o pair_ZZX_long.o
> pair_ZZ_pEX_long.o pair_ZZ_pX_long.o pair_lzz_pEX_long.o
> pair_lzz_pX_long.o quad_float.o tools.o vec_GF2.o vec_GF2E.o
> vec_GF2XVec.o vec_RR.o vec_ZZ.o vec_ZZVec.o vec_ZZ_p.o vec_ZZ_pE.o
> vec_double.o vec_long.o vec_lzz_p.o vec_lzz_pE.o vec_quad_float.o
> vec_vec_GF2.o vec_vec_GF2E.o vec_vec_RR.o vec_vec_ZZ.o vec_vec_ZZ_p.o
> vec_vec_ZZ_pE.o vec_vec_long.o vec_vec_lzz_p.o vec_vec_lzz_pE.o
> vec_xdouble.o xdouble.o G_LLL_FP.o G_LLL_QP.o G_LLL_XD.o G_LLL_RR.o
> vec_ulong.o vec_vec_ulong.o -L/export/home/drkirkby/sage-3.0.2/local/
> lib -lgmp
> ld: warning: option -o appears more than once, first setting taken
> ld: fatal: file libntl-5.4.2.so: unknown file type
> ld: fatal: File processing errors. No output written to
This rings a bell: Any chance your gcc was build using the Sun ld and
not the GNU ld? I would change
-Wl,-soname,lib`cat DIRNAME`.so -o lib`cat DIRNAME`.so
to
-o libntl.so
since the that does not work with the Sun ld IIRC. By now I am
actually thinking that we should not add "-Kl,-soname $FOO" & friends
to the default makefiles since those are GNU ld specific.
Cheers,
Michael
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel
URLs: http://www.sagemath.org
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
On Jun 4, 8:35 pm, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 4, 9:30 pm, Francois <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 5, 1:10 am, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > gmp_aux.h exists without the tuning, but I am not sure why we skip the
> > > tuning on Solaris. I will certainly see if I cannot reactivate that.
> > > As I mentioned in the other email when you use a csh as login shell
> > > the current build does not work. I believe it is due to some scripts
> > > being called from the makefile as
>
> > > sh foo
>
> > > while foo does not have a shebang. Then things seem to also go bad on
> > > Linux for example, so this is not a Solaris specific problem, but
> > > shell related. I have build the NTL.spkg numerous times on Solaris
> > > with either a sh or bash login shell, so it does work some times ;)
>
> Hi Francois,
>
> > Could be a contributin factor.
>
> Probably since I have had it reported to me off list on a Linux box.
>
> > However before the mfile patch from
> > Tim and I, the call to "make lib" was calling "make setup1" to "make
> > setup3"
> > a behavior we didn't reproduce in our target. So if you have an older
> > sage
> > setup3 would be called anyway but not in a recent one.
> > I also checked the spkg (and the upstream tarball) gmp_aux.h is
> > definitely not there.
> > Technically the tunning is setup4 so yes it would exist without the
> > tunning :)
> > In retrospect we should probably should have included some
> > of those make setup calls in our patch.
>
> I am 100% certain that the NTL.spkg as is can be build on Solaris
> because I have build this spkg and its predecessors dozens of times on
> Solaris 9 and 10 in all kinds of configurations. Obviously there is a
> bug or two in here, but it isn't the setup routines that are at fault
> here.
>
> > Francois
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michael
I don't believe the problem I was experiencing is anything to do with
the shell, or how it is called. As Is said, I'm not using csh or tcsh
as a login shell, but bash.
I believe Francois is much closer to the solution myself. I took out
the test for SunOs, so do_make setup1, do_make setup2, do_make setup3
and do_make setup4 were all run. i.e. I changed the do_tune() code to:
do_tune()
{
do_make setup1
do_make setup2
do_make setup3
do_make setup4
}
That works a LOT better, but it still fails to build, but that is a
different issue. So I'm not convinced there is a need to exclude the
setup routines on Solaris - whether they are useful or a waste of time
is another matter, but they don't stop it building.
I can't make any sence of the what is causing this to fail. The error
message from the compiler says the -o option is given twice (which it
is not)! It then says it does not know the file type for
libntl-5.4.2.so. It seems to me the options to the compiler look
sensible, so I don't understand its objection. It could be a compiler
bug.
Would anyone be in a better position to fix this if I made a Solaris
(SPARC) machine available? This is my private machine and I don't wish
to share it, but if it will be any help I could set up another SPARC
with similar software on it.
Dave
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[~/sage-3.0.2] $ make
cd spkg && ./install all 2>&1 | tee -a ../install.log
make[1]: Entering directory `/export/home/drkirkby/sage-3.0.2/spkg'
sage-spkg ntl-5.4.2.p3 2>&1
You must set the SAGE_ROOT environment variable or
run this script from the SAGE_ROOT or
SAGE_ROOT/local/bin/ directory.
ntl-5.4.2.p3
Machine:
SunOS kestrel 5.10 Generic_120011-14 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Blade-1000
Deleting directories from past builds of previous/current versions of
ntl-5.4.2.p3
Extracting package /export/home/drkirkby/sage-3.0.2/spkg/standard/
ntl-5.4.2.p3.spkg ...
-rw-r--r-- 1 drkirkby animals 573992 Jun 4 23:10 /export/home/
drkirkby/sage-3.0.2/spkg/standard/ntl-5.4.2.p3.spkg
x ntl-5.4.2.p3, 0 bytes, 0 tape blocks
x ntl-5.4.2.p3/.hgignore, 4 bytes, 1 tape blocks
x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/DispSettings.c, 2197 bytes, 5 tape blocks
x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/pair_lzz_pX_long.c, 386 bytes, 1 tape blocks
Finished extraction
Host system
uname -a:
SunOS kestrel 5.10 Generic_120011-14 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Blade-1000
GCC Version
gcc -v
Reading specs from /usr/local/opt/csw/gcc4/bin/../lib/gcc/sparc-sun-
solaris2.8/4.0.2/specs
Target: sparc-sun-solaris2.8
Configured with: ../sources/gcc-4.0.2/configure --prefix=/opt/csw/gcc4
--with-local-prefix=/opt/csw --without-gnu-as --with-as=/usr/ccs/bin/
as --without-gnu-ld --with-ld=/usr/ccs/bin/ld --enable-threads=posix --
enable-shared --enable-multilib --enable-nls --with-included-gettext --
with-libiconv-prefix=/opt/csw --with-x --enable-java-awt=xlib --with-
system-zlib --enable-languages=c,c++,f95,java,objc,ada
Thread model: posix
gcc version 4.0.2
*
[sage-devel] Re: parent of component of CartesianProduct
>> >> Notice that the parent of t[1] is incorrect in the 2nd case. > > This is a bug. I've opened a ticket here: > >http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/3368 > > and assigned it to Mike Hansen :-) This was never the intended functionality of CartesianProduct? -- it is different than the CartesianProduct? of Magma. It was mainly intended to iterator over the cartesian product of a bunch of iterables in Python. Maybe the name should be changed. --Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: new website
Thanks, just went through your remarks, very good comments. I used about 90% of them ... On Jun 4, 8:19 pm, David Harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On the main page, why not put the mission *first*, and then > afterwards put "Sage is..." This "first page first sentence problem" will never be solved. Personally, I finally know how I like it, but I'm open for any input. IMHO the definition is more important and don't forget, overemphasizing an already very strong statement looks "amateurish" ;) > > Also, under "Library", I don't know what "works" means. This was already a problem mentioned somewhere else. Very interesting. I looked it up in a dictionary and it is the correct translation. Maybe it is used differently? Or is the word "workings" better? You used it in "...and the previous (and ongoing) work of many authors of included components". I think, in German it has a broader meaning but is still the same word. What I mean is written (digital) text that has been done for, about and with Sage excluding development (howto's, papers, examples, ...) - > that ends up in a collection, called library. H --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: parent of component of CartesianProduct
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Bill Page <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In: http://modular.math.washington.edu/msri06/work/kohel/msri_magma.pdf > > "A Brief Magma Tutorial" by David R. Kohel gives this example: > > -- > > The parent structure of a tuple is more important than in the case > of sequences or sets. >> C := CartesianProduct(Integers(),RationalField()); >> t := C!<1,1>; >> Parent(t[2]); > Rational Field > > -- > > The analogous computation in Sage 3.0.2 yields: > > sage: C = CartesianProduct(Integers(),RationalField()) > > # case 1 > sage: t=C([1,1/2]) > sage: parent(t[0]) > Integer Ring > sage: parent(t[1]) > Rational Field > > # case 2 > sage: t=C([1,1]) > sage: parent(t[0]) > Integer Ring > sage: parent(t[1]) > Integer Ring > > - > > Notice that the parent of t[1] is incorrect in the 2nd case. This is a bug. I've opened a ticket here: http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/3368 and assigned it to Mike Hansen :-) > > Is there any interest in also implementing the Co-product constructor? Yes. > What about Record and Union constructors? > I don't know what those are (at least what Record is). William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] parent of component of CartesianProduct
In: http://modular.math.washington.edu/msri06/work/kohel/msri_magma.pdf "A Brief Magma Tutorial" by David R. Kohel gives this example: -- The parent structure of a tuple is more important than in the case of sequences or sets. > C := CartesianProduct(Integers(),RationalField()); > t := C!<1,1>; > Parent(t[2]); Rational Field -- The analogous computation in Sage 3.0.2 yields: sage: C = CartesianProduct(Integers(),RationalField()) # case 1 sage: t=C([1,1/2]) sage: parent(t[0]) Integer Ring sage: parent(t[1]) Rational Field # case 2 sage: t=C([1,1]) sage: parent(t[0]) Integer Ring sage: parent(t[1]) Integer Ring - Notice that the parent of t[1] is incorrect in the 2nd case. Is there any interest in also implementing the Co-product constructor? What about Record and Union constructors? Regards, Bill Page. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Solaris porting porting progress report on Sage 3.0.x
On Jun 4, 9:39 pm, Robert Bradshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 4, 2008, at 9:02 AM, mabshoff wrote: > > Aside from that it would be good with somebody with deeper Solaris- > > internals fu than me could enlighten me if /dev/random is the > > preferred source of randomness. On linux at least /dev/urandom is > > supposed to be a "better" source of entropy, but I could be wrong > > about that. Hi Robert, > /dev/urandom is not as good a source of entropy in the sense that is > is a pseudo-random number generator (as opposed to /dev/random which > will block until more "true" entropy is fed into it. If all you need > is pseduo-randomness, then /dev/urandom is find and fast, but for > cryptographic algorithms may not be as secure. In our case (for > session keys) it should be fine, but it'd be bad to use for public > key generation. I agree with you and thanks for clearing that up since I was wrong. Anyway, as it turned out the non-secure notebook has another problem ** * Open your web browser to http://localhost:8000 * ** ^Cselect() error: Interrupted system call That box has some odd network issues, so it might be totally unrelated to /dev/random. I will test on a machine without such a restricted network and see if that improves the problem. I mentioned in IRC that the problem was solved, but as it turned out I was wrong since the default mode of the notebook changed from SSL to insecure :( You win some, you lose some. Cheers, Michael > - Robert --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Solaris porting porting progress report on Sage 3.0.x
On Jun 4, 2008, at 9:02 AM, mabshoff wrote: > On Jun 4, 5:29 pm, Martin Albrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> On Wednesday 04 June 2008, mabshoff wrote: > > > >>> Yes, what could go wrong? ;) >> >>> Seriously: What I meant above is that we ought to see on Solaris >>> only >>> if switching to /dev/urandom as an entropy source does fix the >>> infinite startup time of the notebook. I had similar problems >>> with the >>> Sage notebook with the 64 bit OSX version initially due a non- >>> compiled >>> _ctypes extension, but in that case it failed outright. I am well >>> aware of the dangers of hacking on the random source for >>> anything, but >>> I promise that I will use more than PID to seed ;) > > Hi Martin, > >> Still, make sure you get absolutely crystal clear confirmation >> from upstream >> that what you're doing is tolerable. Anything else is not >> acceptable IMHO. > > certainly, I don't want to be the idiot that weeks after the OpenSSL > +Debian debacle does something equally stupid and hence will be know > in Slashdot lore as "that GNUTLS idiot" ;). It might in the end be a > config problem since on Solaris with Sage 3.0.1 upon the start of sage > the process just sits there polling /dev/random for well over two > minutes and nothing happens, i.e. I always killed it. I will now let > it sit there for a while and see if it comes up. Aside from that there > is a problem on that box due to some background jobs being way too > high in priority so that I only get a small default slice of the CPU. > I will pause the background processes now and see if that makes a > difference. > > Aside from that it would be good with somebody with deeper Solaris- > internals fu than me could enlighten me if /dev/random is the > preferred source of randomness. On linux at least /dev/urandom is > supposed to be a "better" source of entropy, but I could be wrong > about that. /dev/urandom is not as good a source of entropy in the sense that is is a pseudo-random number generator (as opposed to /dev/random which will block until more "true" entropy is fed into it. If all you need is pseduo-randomness, then /dev/urandom is find and fast, but for cryptographic algorithms may not be as secure. In our case (for session keys) it should be fine, but it'd be bad to use for public key generation. - Robert --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
On Jun 4, 9:30 pm, Francois <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 5, 1:10 am, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > gmp_aux.h exists without the tuning, but I am not sure why we skip the > > tuning on Solaris. I will certainly see if I cannot reactivate that. > > As I mentioned in the other email when you use a csh as login shell > > the current build does not work. I believe it is due to some scripts > > being called from the makefile as > > > sh foo > > > while foo does not have a shebang. Then things seem to also go bad on > > Linux for example, so this is not a Solaris specific problem, but > > shell related. I have build the NTL.spkg numerous times on Solaris > > with either a sh or bash login shell, so it does work some times ;) Hi Francois, > Could be a contributin factor. Probably since I have had it reported to me off list on a Linux box. > However before the mfile patch from > Tim and I, the call to "make lib" was calling "make setup1" to "make > setup3" > a behavior we didn't reproduce in our target. So if you have an older > sage > setup3 would be called anyway but not in a recent one. > I also checked the spkg (and the upstream tarball) gmp_aux.h is > definitely not there. > Technically the tunning is setup4 so yes it would exist without the > tunning :) > In retrospect we should probably should have included some > of those make setup calls in our patch. I am 100% certain that the NTL.spkg as is can be build on Solaris because I have build this spkg and its predecessors dozens of times on Solaris 9 and 10 in all kinds of configurations. Obviously there is a bug or two in here, but it isn't the setup routines that are at fault here. > Francois Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
On Jun 5, 1:10 am, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 4, 2:56 pm, Francois <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> Hi Francois,
>
> > It looks like gmp_aux.h is generated during "make setup3" which is
> > completely skipped on sun, from the skpg-install script:
> > do_tune()
> > {
> > if [ $UNAME = "SunOS" ]; then
> > return
> > fi
> > do_make setup1
> > do_make setup2
> > do_make setup3
> > do_make setup4}
>
> > -
> > May be you could try to insert "do_make setup3" before ...
>
> gmp_aux.h exists without the tuning, but I am not sure why we skip the
> tuning on Solaris. I will certainly see if I cannot reactivate that.
> As I mentioned in the other email when you use a csh as login shell
> the current build does not work. I believe it is due to some scripts
> being called from the makefile as
>
> sh foo
>
> while foo does not have a shebang. Then things seem to also go bad on
> Linux for example, so this is not a Solaris specific problem, but
> shell related. I have build the NTL.spkg numerous times on Solaris
> with either a sh or bash login shell, so it does work some times ;)
>
Could be a contributin factor. However before the mfile patch from
Tim and I, the call to "make lib" was calling "make setup1" to "make
setup3"
a behavior we didn't reproduce in our target. So if you have an older
sage
setup3 would be called anyway but not in a recent one.
I also checked the spkg (and the upstream tarball) gmp_aux.h is
definitely not there.
Technically the tunning is setup4 so yes it would exist without the
tunning :)
In retrospect we should probably should have included some
of those make setup calls in our patch.
Francois
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[sage-devel] Re: new website
On the main page, why not put the mission *first*, and then afterwards put "Sage is..." Also, under "Library", I don't know what "works" means. Maybe that "works" in deutsch, but it doesn't work in english :-). Do you mean like projects that use Sage, or tools built on top of Sage, or something along those lines? david --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: new website
Some more. "Development" page: "The proclaimed mission is" => "Our mission is" Let's be consistent with "create" vs "creating". It's different here from the main page. I think "creating" is better. In the enumerated list, I would prefer n-dashes (–) instead of hyphens. "There is the IRC channel" => "There is an IRC channel" "Sage uses several techniques to continually improve overall software quality:" => "We take code quality seriously:" On the search page, I find the list of examples a bit confusing. It looks like a list of headings for different types of searches you can perform. "Acknowledgements" page: "Developing Sage benefited from financial support of numerous institutions and the work of many developers of included components." => "Sage development has benefited from the financial support of numerous institutions, and the previous (and ongoing) work of many authors of included components". "Acknowledgment for Supporting Sage" sound weird to me. "Financial and Infrastructure Support" => "Financial and infrastructure support". I'm not sure if infrastructure is the right word. Can't quite think of the right word now. Maybe "material". Not sure. Map: "Sage Developers around the World" => "Sage Developers around the world", or even "Sage developers around the world" Back to the main page: "search Sage related websites" => "search Sage-related websites" david --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: 3 == pi
On Jun 4, 2008, at 8:40 AM, Dan Christensen wrote: > > "William Stein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Sage Enhancement Proposal: Change comparisons that involve >> elements of the symbolic ring to return True or False if both sides >> of the symbolic comparison are constants and the comparison can >> be definitely determined. > > I'm not sure what symbolic equations are currently used for, Stuff like sage: solve(x^2 == 5) [x == -sqrt(5), x == sqrt(5)] > but > this kind of special casing can cause problems. If I'm building > up an equation using inputs that I don't control, my code may > have unexpected problems if what it thinks is a symbolic equation > turns into a boolean. I agree, think we should either always (my preference) or never return a symbolic equation. "Can be definitely determined" could be expensive too. > Maybe the heart of the matter is that we need a separate notation > for symbolic equations vs. comparison. E.g. > > sage: 3 == pi > False > > sage: 3 === pi > 3 === pi > > sage: 1.2 == 1.3 > False > > sage: 1.2 === 1.3 > 1.2 === 1.3 > > Note that this gives you the ability to have symbolic equations > when the components happen to not be symbolic. (Does this even > make sense given the current set-up?) > > I'm not sure what to do if the user requests a comparison that > sage can't easily determine: > > sage: sqrt(3) + sqrt(8) == sqrt(5) + pi > > One idea would be to return a symbolic equation > > sqrt(3) + sqrt(8) === sqrt(5) + pi > > but probably the best is to raise an exception: if my code is > expecting a boolean, then a symbolic equation may confuse it. > > So my SEP would be that == always returns a boolean or raises > an exception, and === always returns a symbolic equation. > > The notation === is of course a topic for discussion. If === > is chosen, it would have to use the pre-processor. Is there > another operator that would make sense? This was actually one of the original proposals. One would also have to come up with operators for <, <=, >=, >, and !=. Also, in the current system, it is easy to do sage: bool(3 == pi) False sage: if 3 == pi: print "bad" : sage: - Robert --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] new website
nitpicking issues. (some are more subjective than others, feel free to ignore any of the suggestions below) main page: "Python based" => "Python-based" Next to the download button, shouldn't be a space between "3.0.2" and the comma; and I don't see the need for a colon after "Version" inconsistent capitalisation: "Quickstart - Research - Education" are capitalised, "documentation - support - references" are not Download page: "hardware platforms" => "hardware" "announcement newsletter" => "mailing list" [I don't think the subscribe box/button should be on that page. It clutters it up unnecessarily.] Beneath "Microsoft Windows", might as well get rid of "VMWare Image". That's unnecessary. The process is described on the right. "read additional instructions here" => "read these additional instructions" "It is currently" => "There is currently" "native port to" => "native port for" "Efforts are undertaken to make a native port possible" => "We are currently working on a native port". [Perhaps provide a link to the wiki page where mabshoff is coordinating efforts for this] "The current VMWare Image is available and provides you with an encapsulated and solid tested system. It contains everything and needs nearly no configuration." This sounds weird to me. Perhaps it should be a separate paragraph before the one about the native port. Or perhaps it shouldn't exist at all. Under "Linux": "by right click" => "by right clicking" "Meanwhile, there are binary builds available" => "Binary builds are available". "distribution specific" => "distribution-specific" "Efforts are currently done for" => "Progress is being made for" Under "source": "complete source of Sage" => "complete source for Sage" "It ships together with everything it needs to compile itself and also provides all bits and pieces to develop Sage. This includes the source code of Sage, all dependencies including Python and the complete changelog in a mercurial repository." can be simplified. How about just: "It ships with all dependencies including Python and the complete changelog in a Mercurial repository." "read the installation guide" => "read the installation guide." "a copy of Sage on DVD" => "a copy of Sage on DVD." Going back up to the Linux section, for consistency, the first line should be a link "download Linux binaries". david --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: coercing of sqrt(2)
On Jun 4, 2008, at 4:07 AM, Bill Page wrote: > Robert, > > Thanks for the elaboration. I hope that this follow-up is not too far > off topic and I don't want to distract you (or any of the Sage > developers) from your main tasks. I wrote this mostly as notes and > questions to myself - but if you or anyone else have some time or the > inclination to correct or comment as time permits, that would be > great. I'm sure a lot of other people have similar questions, and it will be good to put it down in writing. > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote: >> >> On Jun 3, 2008, at 4:50 PM, Bill Page wrote: >> >>> How does it [categories in Sage] relate to the >>> concept of "parent" - which seems equally ill-defined to me? >> >> A Parent is an Object in the category of Sets, though in the context >> of coercion one usually assumes one can some kind of arithmetic >> (binary operations) on their elements. >> ... >> On Jun 3, 2008, at 7:11 PM, David Harvey wrote: >> ... >>> Don't you mean to say something more like "a parent is an object >>> of a concrete category", i.e. a category C with a faithful functor >>> f : C -> Set, such that the "elements" (as understood by Sage) of >>> the parent P are exactly the elements of f(P)? > > Ok (and thanks also for the clarification, David). There are of course > two different uses of "object" here: 1) object of some category, 2) > Python object. All Python objects have a 'type', i.e. belong to some > Python class. > > So in Sage 3.0.2 I observe for example: > > sage: type(1) > > sage: parent(1) > Integer Ring > sage: type(parent(1)) > > sage: category(parent(1)) > Category of rings > sage: type(category(parent(1))) > > > and > > sage: type(1.0) > > sage: parent(1.0) > Real Field with 53 bits of precision > sage: type(parent(1.0)) > > sage: category(parent(1.0)) > Category of fields > sage: type(category(parent(1.0))) > > > These seem consistent to me, albeit rather complex. However I am not > sure I understand the following: > > sage: parent(IntegerRing()) > > sage: parent(RealField()) > > > Could you explain why the parent of an object of some category is a > type? David's explanation of this is right on. We need parent() to work in some sensible way on non-Elements (e.g. Python ints, objects from outside Sage) to be able do some kind of coercion reasoning on them. Python is a dynamically typed language, ever object has a type. > >> >>> What is the relationship to inheritance in Python? Is the intention >>> to give all mathematical objects defined in Sage some categorical >>> structure? What about categories themselves as mathematical >>> structures - e.g. a category is a kind of directed graph with >>> additional >>> structure? >> >> A big push of this model is to divorce the relationship between >> inheritance (which primarily has to do with implementation) and >> mathematical categorization. > > At first blush it still seems strange to me to distinguish between the > parent of an object and the type of an object. The instances of a type > are often considered elements. Is the invention of 'parent' in Sage > due to some inherent limitation of Python classes? Do you really want > to say more abstractly that a certain type *represents* a certain > parent? E.g. Does 'sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealNumber' represent > 'RealField()'? Can there be other representations of 'RealField()' in > Sage? How can I find out for example if 'sage.rings.integer.Integer' > represents 'IntegerRing()'? One should think of the type of an object as what specifies its implementation (including its internal representation). In this sense it is like a class in Java, C++, or any other programming language. (In Python there is a subtle (and mostly historical) difference between types and classes depending on whether or not it's written in C, but for the most part they can be used interchangeably). Python has multiple inheritance, but Cython does not (the C format of a compiled Python class is a C struct, so this is not so much a Cython limitation as a Python/C API limitation.) Most of the time there is a 1-to-1 correspondence between Parents and the types of its Elements. For example, and element of the Parent RR (= RealField(53) is represented by sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealNumber. If I do RR(3) I get back an object of type sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealNumber representing the floating point number 3 to 53 bits of precision, and it's Parent is RR. RealField (100) is a new Parent, whose elements are again of type sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealNumber but to 100 bits of precision. Sometimes, however, the same type is used for multiple parents. There are several integer mod types (depending on whether or not the modulus fits in a single word) and they are used for both generic Z/ nZ and prime-order finite fields. Thus we have sage: [type(mod(-1, 100^k)) for k in [2..5]] [, , , ] sage: [parent(mod(-1, 100^k)) for k in [2..5]] [Ring of i
[sage-devel] Re: New Sage website
Everyone keeps saying they don't like the blue. Well, I *do* like the blue! Just my 2 cents :-) david On Jun 4, 2008, at 1:40 PM, Clement Pernet wrote: > > First, I really think this web site looks much better, and mature. > Great > job! > I asked my roomate, Alan, to review it, since he's quite a bit > into web > app. development. Here are his comments: > > " > * in general: less pages, dont hide things 3 pages deep. everything on > the site could be edited down to 5 or 6 pages. > > * "you can try Sage online here" should be either the first or second > thing on the page. this is a major hook. > > * the blurb and links in the feature tour page should be on the first > page above the icons. > > * search box should be on first page. get rid of separate pages. > > * therefore, the number of buttons reduces to 4 > > * rss feed should have _orange_ rss icon (people looking for RRS link > get are looking for something orange) > > * put the "try sage online" link in the download section too > > * remove second level of navigation tabs. no one expects these to be > there. instead, put all the content in the separate sub-pages in one > page under their own headings. > > * "links" pages have no context. put links where they belong. if > its to > packages you use, put them under a "packages we use" heading in > development section or sometime > " > > My 2 cents to the discussion are: > * the blue is too blue (already said), > * in the download section: the left column is way too large ; I would > visually prefer a 1/3 2/3 proportion. > > Maybe some of these comments would involve too deep modifications > to be > taken into account, but I hope it will still be of any help. > > Cheers, > > Clément > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: New Sage website
First, I really think this web site looks much better, and mature. Great job! I asked my roomate, Alan, to review it, since he's quite a bit into web app. development. Here are his comments: " * in general: less pages, dont hide things 3 pages deep. everything on the site could be edited down to 5 or 6 pages. * "you can try Sage online here" should be either the first or second thing on the page. this is a major hook. * the blurb and links in the feature tour page should be on the first page above the icons. * search box should be on first page. get rid of separate pages. * therefore, the number of buttons reduces to 4 * rss feed should have _orange_ rss icon (people looking for RRS link get are looking for something orange) * put the "try sage online" link in the download section too * remove second level of navigation tabs. no one expects these to be there. instead, put all the content in the separate sub-pages in one page under their own headings. * "links" pages have no context. put links where they belong. if its to packages you use, put them under a "packages we use" heading in development section or sometime " My 2 cents to the discussion are: * the blue is too blue (already said), * in the download section: the left column is way too large ; I would visually prefer a 1/3 2/3 proportion. Maybe some of these comments would involve too deep modifications to be taken into account, but I hope it will still be of any help. Cheers, Clément --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Some implementation questions (Re: sage, s-integral points, diploma thesis)
Dear Michael, I am glad that you have made some progress. I am copying this to sage-devel since the questions you ask are about how to use Sage and not about this particular problem (which is to compute integral points on elliptic curves, if anyone on sage-devel is reading this). 2008/6/4 Michael Mardaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Dear John Cremona, > > the last weeks we were working on the integral point computation over Q. > After some basic problems of how to code in sage we decided to write a > python file which uses sage via >>from sage.all import * > It seems like it is not the best solution because while testing the code > we get a numerical overflow from python (at approx. 1e308 which isn't a > problem in sage) > How can we solve this problem? Can we force sage to run the .py file > without python? (We also have to use ** instead of ^) Why don't you give your file a .sage extension and load it from Sage? Upi still have access to all of Python. I cannot think of a reason why doing what you are trying would be better. > Another question is how to realize that our functionality is a built in > function which can be accesed by .-opertator (e.g. > E.integral_points(...) with E an elliptic Curve) > For that the simplest way is to insert your code into the class definition of ell_rational_field in the Sage source tree (which conatins .py files so you would need ** and not ^ etc). I think there might be another way to do it but since we want your code to be part of Sage when it is fully writtemn and tested, and that is where it will go, you might as well put it tere right away. I hope this helps. I suggest that any Sage questions you have are asked via sage-devel, and mathematical questions about the algorithms can be sent just to me. > At the moment we insert the LLL-trick as last step. > After that we are planning to test our algorithm and insert > error-handling where it is missing. > Good. Keep a list of good test cases, since it will be a requirement before your code is incorporated into Sage the the functions are folly documented with docstrings and doctests. John > > Best wishes > Michael & Tobias > > > John Cremona schrieb: >> Dear Michael and Tobias, >> >> That is a good plan. I also think you should divide up your >> implementation over Q into two stages: integral points, and then >> S-integral points. The latter is definitely harder than the former. >> >> For other reading: you should definitely look at the thesis of >> Emmannuel Herrmann. I have not read it since my German is weak, but I >> suspect that will not be a problem for you! He is the person who >> implemented this (over Q) in Magma. Secondly, over number fields >> there is a paper by N.P.Smart which should be useful. He also wrote a >> book (called something like "A cookbook of methods for solving >> Diophantine equations" - not his book on elliptic curve cryptogaphy!) >> and I seem to remember that has a chapter on this, but I might be >> wrong. (Sorry: I am on leave this year and do not have access to most >> of my books). >> >> I hope this helps. I look forward to hearing how you get on. >> >> John Cremona >> >> 2008/4/23 Michael Mardaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> >>> Dear John Cremona, >>> >>> Mr. Mueller-Stach forwarded your email concerning the sage >>> s-integral point project. >>> After a meeting last week with Mr. Mueller-Stach, we decided to >>> first contact you and then start programming. >>> So far we would start with the implementation of the algorithms >>> presented by H.Cohen in his Book "Number Theory Vol.I Tools and >>> Dioph. Eq." and the paper written by Pethö. >>> After that, we hope it will work, we would go on with number fields. >>> What do you think about this plan? Do you recommend some other >>> papers? >>> >>> Thank you for offering your assistance. >>> (We think there will be some questions ;) ) >>> >>> Best wishes >>> Michael and Tobias >>> -- >>> Michael Mardaus >>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> Tobias Nagel >>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> Original Message >>> Subject: Re: Projects >>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:59:09 +0200 >>> From: John Cremona <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: Mueller-Stach, Prof. Dr. Stefan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> CC: William Stein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> [I am CC'ing William since it was nto clear that your email went to him >>> too.] >>> >>> This is great news. No-one else is doing this and so -- as far as I >>> am concerned -- the problem is duly "reserved" for your students. >>> >>> I would be happy for the students to ask me questions as they do this, >>> though I will not necessarily know the answers! >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> >>> John >>> >>> 2008/4/16 SMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> > Dear John, dear William, >>> > >>> > you suggested to write code for students for S-integral points with >>> > the algorithm outlined above mainly by John. >>> > The two students I mentioned (
[sage-devel] Re: Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
> Hi Dave, > > I know one issue with NTL that pops up when people use either csh or > tcsh as a login shell and I got a likely fix that will be in Sage > 3.0.3. > > > > Cheers, > > Michael It's not that [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[~] $ grep drkirkby /etc/passwd drkirkby:x:100:100::/export/home/drkirkby:/bin/bash It looks more like the thing Francois said, although I have not checked it. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: coercing of sqrt(2)
On Jun 4, 2008, at 1:32 AM, John Cremona wrote: > 2008/6/4 Robert Bradshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> But right now we've already got enough on our plate trying to get the >> changes we have pushed through. (Any help on this front would be >> greatly appreciated.) > > Robert, > > Can you be more specific about how others can help with this? Sure. Currently we've made all the underlying changes, and we're in the process of fixing doctests (mostly they're things like typos/ unimplemented functionality rather than deep mathematical peculiarities). The way to get started is: - Download and build Sage 2.10.1 http://sagemath.org/dist/src/ sage-2.10.1.tar - Install the latest Cython http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/ robertwb/cython/cython-0.9.6.14.p1.spkg - Pull from the coercion repo and build http://cython.org/coercion/ hgwebdir.cgi/sage-coerce/ - Choose a (set of) file(s) from the todo list at http:// wiki.sagemath.org/days7/coercion/todo and try to get all doctests to pass there. We're using the wiki to keep track of who's doing what. Some hints: - __cmp__ has been changed to _cmp_ in SageObject, and __cmp__ no longer works due to a default __richcmp__ (that's just how Python works). In retrospect, this probably should not have been done on top of everything else, 'cause it's somewhat independent of coercion and the source of seemingly most failures. - A useful command is coercion_traceback(). This will give the traceback of all exceptions caught during the coercion process. Hopefully this is enough to get started, and feel free to ask questions. - Robert --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: [debian-sage] Debian packaging status update
> > The first bunch of SAGE dependencies entered the Debian NEW queue (the > > queue of packages waiting for review from the Debian ftpmasters before > > they are uploaded to Debian unstable) tonight; by tomorrow I expect that > > that the remaining SAGE dependencies will enter the Debian NEW queue. > > > > I am thus currently optimistic that we will be able to get SAGE 3.0.3 or > > 3.0.4 into Debian Lenny. > > Thanks for the excellent work that you are doing! > This is indeed a great work! I think that it is important that Sage enters Debian lenny (and after that surely, Ubuntu universe) in order to increase the usage of Sage (Many end-users and newcomers to GNU/Linux don't know how to compile something from the sources, or are afraid of that) Pablo --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: osx, easy install, steps 4-6
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 9:28 AM, kcrisman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Jun 4, 12:13 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi >> I just read the installation readme and built my own application to >> start the sageserver: >> >> Just start the Apple-ScriptEditor and enter the following code: >> >> tell application "Terminal" >> do script "/Applications/sage/sage -notebook" >> end tell >> >> Well, that's all. Now only save the script as a program-bundle. After >> that, you can assign the .app file a nice icon and put it in your >> dock, click it, see firefox coming up and have fun. >> >> I'd propose that this app could be part of the sage-install >> bundle... ;-) >> >> Hope, you like this tip >> >> greeting, >> Kai-Philipp >> >> p.s.: I am absolutely new to sage, maybe someone knows some good >> resources for doing dsp in sage? Any tips appreciated. thnx > > This is nice, with similar functionality to several other proposed > ways of doing it you might find by searching the threads. I do like > that it makes a .app. > > Unfortunately, this solution still doesn't behave like a "real" .app, > in the following senses: > 1) Opens a Terminal window before opening the one Sage runs in (this > assumes Terminal is not already open, I think) Isn't that good, since then you get the server logs as the notebook runs, and can press control-c to shut it down? > 2) Requires one to do ^C^C in the Terminal window (and then Quit In sage-3.0.2 it's now only a single control c. > Terminal) to finish everything off and completely quit Sage > Is there a way to modify the script so it would not do the first and > automatically do the second? Just curious, as I've tried several > different "point-and-click" options and they all have some issue like > this; I'm definitely not saying that a way to do this actually exists, > or that if it exists it might not be really hard. The server would have to decide itself when to quit. One possibility would be that if no web browser has been used to view the server for 1 hour (say), then the server quits. - william --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: osx, easy install, steps 4-6
On Jun 4, 12:13 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi > I just read the installation readme and built my own application to > start the sageserver: > > Just start the Apple-ScriptEditor and enter the following code: > > tell application "Terminal" > do script "/Applications/sage/sage -notebook" > end tell > > Well, that's all. Now only save the script as a program-bundle. After > that, you can assign the .app file a nice icon and put it in your > dock, click it, see firefox coming up and have fun. > > I'd propose that this app could be part of the sage-install > bundle... ;-) > > Hope, you like this tip > > greeting, > Kai-Philipp > > p.s.: I am absolutely new to sage, maybe someone knows some good > resources for doing dsp in sage? Any tips appreciated. thnx This is nice, with similar functionality to several other proposed ways of doing it you might find by searching the threads. I do like that it makes a .app. Unfortunately, this solution still doesn't behave like a "real" .app, in the following senses: 1) Opens a Terminal window before opening the one Sage runs in (this assumes Terminal is not already open, I think) 2) Requires one to do ^C^C in the Terminal window (and then Quit Terminal) to finish everything off and completely quit Sage Is there a way to modify the script so it would not do the first and automatically do the second? Just curious, as I've tried several different "point-and-click" options and they all have some issue like this; I'm definitely not saying that a way to do this actually exists, or that if it exists it might not be really hard. - kcrisman --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: osx, easy install, steps 4-6
On Jun 4, 6:13 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Hi Kai-Philipp > I just read the installation readme and built my own application to > start the sageserver: > > Just start the Apple-ScriptEditor and enter the following code: > > tell application "Terminal" > do script "/Applications/sage/sage -notebook" > end tell > > Well, that's all. Now only save the script as a program-bundle. After > that, you can assign the .app file a nice icon and put it in your > dock, click it, see firefox coming up and have fun. > > I'd propose that this app could be part of the sage-install > bundle... ;-) Excellent, I just pasted this email at http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/3363 i.e. it is now issue #3363. > Hope, you like this tip > > greeting, > Kai-Philipp > > p.s.: I am absolutely new to sage, maybe someone knows some good > resources for doing dsp in sage? Any tips appreciated. thnx Sorry, can't help you on that one, but hopefully somebody else will. Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] osx, easy install, steps 4-6
Hi I just read the installation readme and built my own application to start the sageserver: Just start the Apple-ScriptEditor and enter the following code: tell application "Terminal" do script "/Applications/sage/sage -notebook" end tell Well, that's all. Now only save the script as a program-bundle. After that, you can assign the .app file a nice icon and put it in your dock, click it, see firefox coming up and have fun. I'd propose that this app could be part of the sage-install bundle... ;-) Hope, you like this tip greeting, Kai-Philipp p.s.: I am absolutely new to sage, maybe someone knows some good resources for doing dsp in sage? Any tips appreciated. thnx --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ohloh
On Wednesday 04 June 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Curious. I show up as a contributor at least 3 times. William shows up at > least 10 times... I think I saw you (Martin) in there at least twice. It > seems that many of us don't configure .hgrc on every machine we use... Yes, and sometimes we have typos in our hgrc 'Martin and Martin ... For what its worth you can define aliases on ohloh i.e. 'Martin == Martin == [EMAIL PROTECTED] == [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... I just did that. Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99 _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Solaris porting porting progress report on Sage 3.0.x
On Jun 4, 5:29 pm, Martin Albrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wednesday 04 June 2008, mabshoff wrote: > > Yes, what could go wrong? ;) > > > Seriously: What I meant above is that we ought to see on Solaris only > > if switching to /dev/urandom as an entropy source does fix the > > infinite startup time of the notebook. I had similar problems with the > > Sage notebook with the 64 bit OSX version initially due a non-compiled > > _ctypes extension, but in that case it failed outright. I am well > > aware of the dangers of hacking on the random source for anything, but > > I promise that I will use more than PID to seed ;) Hi Martin, > Still, make sure you get absolutely crystal clear confirmation from upstream > that what you're doing is tolerable. Anything else is not acceptable IMHO. certainly, I don't want to be the idiot that weeks after the OpenSSL +Debian debacle does something equally stupid and hence will be know in Slashdot lore as "that GNUTLS idiot" ;). It might in the end be a config problem since on Solaris with Sage 3.0.1 upon the start of sage the process just sits there polling /dev/random for well over two minutes and nothing happens, i.e. I always killed it. I will now let it sit there for a while and see if it comes up. Aside from that there is a problem on that box due to some background jobs being way too high in priority so that I only get a small default slice of the CPU. I will pause the background processes now and see if that makes a difference. Aside from that it would be good with somebody with deeper Solaris- internals fu than me could enlighten me if /dev/random is the preferred source of randomness. On linux at least /dev/urandom is supposed to be a "better" source of entropy, but I could be wrong about that. And a last note: I also need to remove a bad fix for libfplll that Paul had pointed out to me a while ago as wrong, i.e. my round fix for Solaris did stupid things for numbers smaller than zero. It isn't needed on Solaris 10 and higher, so I plan to remove it since we as it looks now will only support Solaris 10 and higher anyway. > Martin Cheers, Michael > -- > name: Martin Albrecht > _pgp:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99 > _www:http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb > _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ohloh
Curious. I show up as a contributor at least 3 times. William shows up at least 10 times... I think I saw you (Martin) in there at least twice. It seems that many of us don't configure .hgrc on every machine we use... On Wed, 4 Jun 2008, Martin Albrecht wrote: > > On Wednesday 04 June 2008, Jaap Spies wrote: >> Just found this: >> >> http://www.ohloh.net/projects/sage >> >> Sage seems to have 5 users and 173 contributors :-)! >> >> Jaap > > Another thing (this is a funny tool to play with :-)) > > """ > Few source code comments > Sage: Open Source Mathematics Software is written mostly in Python. > Across all Python projects on Ohloh, 12% of all source code lines are > comments. For Sage: Open Source Mathematics Software, this figure is only 6%. > This lack of comments puts Sage: Open Source Mathematics Software among the > lowest one-third of all Python projects on Ohloh. > A high number of comments might indicate that the code is well-documented and > organized, and could be a sign of a helpful and disciplined development team. > """ > > http://www.ohloh.net/projects/sage/factoids/473512 > > I bet they don't count docstrings as comments and this is why Sage scores so > low. > > Martin > > -- > name: Martin Albrecht > _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99 > _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb > _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Debian packaging status update
On Jun 4, 9:19 am, Timothy G Abbott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Tim, > The first bunch of SAGE dependencies entered the Debian NEW queue (the > queue of packages waiting for review from the Debian ftpmasters before > they are uploaded to Debian unstable) tonight; by tomorrow I expect that > that the remaining SAGE dependencies will enter the Debian NEW queue. w00t. As other have already expressed their thanks let me get in line to thank you for a great job well done ;) > I am thus currently optimistic that we will be able to get SAGE 3.0.3 or > 3.0.4 into Debian Lenny. > > There are a few potential issues involved: > > - The Debian polybori package is polybori 0.4, which includes a number of > upstream fixes that made packaging it for Debian easier. SAGE is still at > 0.3; I would thus greatly appreciate it if SAGE 3.03 were to be using > polybori 0.4 as well (this is #3264). Since malb asked: anybody can do the upgrade, but we will need to do some testing. Please make sure to build off the latest polybori.spkg in 3.0.2 since there are Cygwin fixes in there. Those can be partially removed since Alexander Dreyer did suggest some fixes in custom.py IIRC that do not require changes to the code itself. That being said it will be quick to fix any Cygwin issue this upgrade might introduce and given the choice between PolyBoRi 0.4 and a broken Cygwin I can definitely live with the broken Cygwin for a week or two. It is also important that we test if linking dynamically works again since that is also supposed to be fixed. As is that issue is a blocker for pbuild on OSX in 32 bit mode since linking with the static libraries foes wrong. > - I've also packaged guava 3.5, which contains a number of upstream fixes > to various minor packaging problems. I would really appreciate it if SAGE > were to upgrade to guava 3.5 so that I can be sure things will be > compatible (this is #3337). Yep, that should be easy enough. rlm? > - I've also packaged sympow 1.019 rather than sympow 1.018; that change is > negligible and doesn't affect any APIs, so I'm not concerned about this > breaking things. The same here, but I do not recall if we ever attempted to upgrade or not. The upgrade to Sympow 1.019 is now #3360. > - At the moment, I have not uploaded a package for flintqs, because it is > my understanding that the flintqs spkg will be replaced by the quadratic > sieve in flint in the not-far-off future. Correct me if this is not the > case. (Ideally, SAGE would do this before but I can live with this not > being the case). That is correct to my knowledge and there seems to be no good reason to not switch to the current flint codebase and dump flintqs. Volunteers? > - At the moment, I have not uploaded a package for linbox_wrap because I > expect it to be merged into mainline linbox in the next 10 days or so. Clement: Any update on this? > If there are likely to be any other dependency spkgs that are scheduled > for updates in the 3.0.3 or 3.0.4 release cycles, I would like to hear > about them so that I can plan accordingly. The plan is to upgarde clisp and Maxima to the latest (2.45 and 5.15.0) releases. We need a clisp upgrade for Solaris x86-64 and might was well do Maxima at the same time. Aside from that we might do a couple small, incremental upgrades, i.e. ipython to 0.8.4 for example, but nothing sweeping. > -Tim Abbott Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Debian packaging status update
On Wednesday 04 June 2008, Timothy G Abbott wrote: > The first bunch of SAGE dependencies entered the Debian NEW queue (the > queue of packages waiting for review from the Debian ftpmasters before > they are uploaded to Debian unstable) tonight; by tomorrow I expect that > that the remaining SAGE dependencies will enter the Debian NEW queue. > > I am thus currently optimistic that we will be able to get SAGE 3.0.3 or > 3.0.4 into Debian Lenny. > > There are a few potential issues involved: > > - The Debian polybori package is polybori 0.4, which includes a number of > upstream fixes that made packaging it for Debian easier. SAGE is still at > 0.3; I would thus greatly appreciate it if SAGE 3.03 were to be using > polybori 0.4 as well (this is #3264). > > - I've also packaged guava 3.5, which contains a number of upstream fixes > to various minor packaging problems. I would really appreciate it if SAGE > were to upgrade to guava 3.5 so that I can be sure things will be > compatible (this is #3337). > > - I've also packaged sympow 1.019 rather than sympow 1.018; that change is > negligible and doesn't affect any APIs, so I'm not concerned about this > breaking things. > > - At the moment, I have not uploaded a package for flintqs, because it is > my understanding that the flintqs spkg will be replaced by the quadratic > sieve in flint in the not-far-off future. Correct me if this is not the > case. (Ideally, SAGE would do this before but I can live with this not > being the case). > > - At the moment, I have not uploaded a package for linbox_wrap because I > expect it to be merged into mainline linbox in the next 10 days or so. > > If there are likely to be any other dependency spkgs that are scheduled > for updates in the 3.0.3 or 3.0.4 release cycles, I would like to hear > about them so that I can plan accordingly. > > -Tim Abbott Indeed, great work! What is the time frame for e.g. the PolyBoRi update? How long do we have? Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99 _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: [sage-support] Re: 3 == pi
"William Stein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Sage Enhancement Proposal: Change comparisons that involve > elements of the symbolic ring to return True or False if both sides > of the symbolic comparison are constants and the comparison can > be definitely determined. I'm not sure what symbolic equations are currently used for, but this kind of special casing can cause problems. If I'm building up an equation using inputs that I don't control, my code may have unexpected problems if what it thinks is a symbolic equation turns into a boolean. Maybe the heart of the matter is that we need a separate notation for symbolic equations vs. comparison. E.g. sage: 3 == pi False sage: 3 === pi 3 === pi sage: 1.2 == 1.3 False sage: 1.2 === 1.3 1.2 === 1.3 Note that this gives you the ability to have symbolic equations when the components happen to not be symbolic. (Does this even make sense given the current set-up?) I'm not sure what to do if the user requests a comparison that sage can't easily determine: sage: sqrt(3) + sqrt(8) == sqrt(5) + pi One idea would be to return a symbolic equation sqrt(3) + sqrt(8) === sqrt(5) + pi but probably the best is to raise an exception: if my code is expecting a boolean, then a symbolic equation may confuse it. So my SEP would be that == always returns a boolean or raises an exception, and === always returns a symbolic equation. The notation === is of course a topic for discussion. If === is chosen, it would have to use the pre-processor. Is there another operator that would make sense? Dan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Solaris porting porting progress report on Sage 3.0.x
On Wednesday 04 June 2008, mabshoff wrote: > On Jun 4, 3:08 pm, Martin Albrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > Well, I have seens the same problem on other Solaris boxen and we do > > > not explicitly just /dev/random, but we do so via GNUTLS. We might > > > patch GNUTLS slightly on Solaris, but up to know it isn't 100% clear > > > to my why this happens. > > Hi, > > > Yeah, patching the random number generation of the SSL package slightly > > ... what could go wrong ... > > Yes, what could go wrong? ;) > > Seriously: What I meant above is that we ought to see on Solaris only > if switching to /dev/urandom as an entropy source does fix the > infinite startup time of the notebook. I had similar problems with the > Sage notebook with the 64 bit OSX version initially due a non-compiled > _ctypes extension, but in that case it failed outright. I am well > aware of the dangers of hacking on the random source for anything, but > I promise that I will use more than PID to seed ;) Still, make sure you get absolutely crystal clear confirmation from upstream that what you're doing is tolerable. Anything else is not acceptable IMHO. Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99 _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: [debian-sage] Debian packaging status update
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Timothy G Abbott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The first bunch of SAGE dependencies entered the Debian NEW queue (the > queue of packages waiting for review from the Debian ftpmasters before > they are uploaded to Debian unstable) tonight; by tomorrow I expect that > that the remaining SAGE dependencies will enter the Debian NEW queue. > > I am thus currently optimistic that we will be able to get SAGE 3.0.3 or > 3.0.4 into Debian Lenny. > > There are a few potential issues involved: > > - The Debian polybori package is polybori 0.4, which includes a number of > upstream fixes that made packaging it for Debian easier. SAGE is still at > 0.3; I would thus greatly appreciate it if SAGE 3.03 were to be using > polybori 0.4 as well (this is #3264). > > - I've also packaged guava 3.5, which contains a number of upstream fixes > to various minor packaging problems. I would really appreciate it if SAGE > were to upgrade to guava 3.5 so that I can be sure things will be > compatible (this is #3337). > > - I've also packaged sympow 1.019 rather than sympow 1.018; that change is > negligible and doesn't affect any APIs, so I'm not concerned about this > breaking things. > > - At the moment, I have not uploaded a package for flintqs, because it is > my understanding that the flintqs spkg will be replaced by the quadratic > sieve in flint in the not-far-off future. Correct me if this is not the > case. (Ideally, SAGE would do this before but I can live with this not > being the case). > > - At the moment, I have not uploaded a package for linbox_wrap because I > expect it to be merged into mainline linbox in the next 10 days or so. > > If there are likely to be any other dependency spkgs that are scheduled > for updates in the 3.0.3 or 3.0.4 release cycles, I would like to hear > about them so that I can plan accordingly. Thanks for the excellent work that you are doing! Ondrej --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Solaris porting porting progress report on Sage 3.0.x
On Jun 4, 3:08 pm, Martin Albrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well, I have seens the same problem on other Solaris boxen and we do > > not explicitly just /dev/random, but we do so via GNUTLS. We might > > patch GNUTLS slightly on Solaris, but up to know it isn't 100% clear > > to my why this happens. Hi, > Yeah, patching the random number generation of the SSL package slightly ... > what could go wrong ... Yes, what could go wrong? ;) Seriously: What I meant above is that we ought to see on Solaris only if switching to /dev/urandom as an entropy source does fix the infinite startup time of the notebook. I had similar problems with the Sage notebook with the 64 bit OSX version initially due a non-compiled _ctypes extension, but in that case it failed outright. I am well aware of the dangers of hacking on the random source for anything, but I promise that I will use more than PID to seed ;) > Martin Cheers, Michael > -- > name: Martin Albrecht > _pgp:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99 > _www:http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb > _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
On Jun 4, 2:56 pm, Francois <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
Hi Francois,
> It looks like gmp_aux.h is generated during "make setup3" which is
> completely skipped on sun, from the skpg-install script:
> do_tune()
> {
> if [ $UNAME = "SunOS" ]; then
> return
> fi
> do_make setup1
> do_make setup2
> do_make setup3
> do_make setup4}
>
> -
> May be you could try to insert "do_make setup3" before ...
gmp_aux.h exists without the tuning, but I am not sure why we skip the
tuning on Solaris. I will certainly see if I cannot reactivate that.
As I mentioned in the other email when you use a csh as login shell
the current build does not work. I believe it is due to some scripts
being called from the makefile as
sh foo
while foo does not have a shebang. Then things seem to also go bad on
Linux for example, so this is not a Solaris specific problem, but
shell related. I have build the NTL.spkg numerous times on Solaris
with either a sh or bash login shell, so it does work some times ;)
> read more »
Cheers,
Michael
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[sage-devel] Re: Solaris porting porting progress report on Sage 3.0.x
> Well, I have seens the same problem on other Solaris boxen and we do > not explicitly just /dev/random, but we do so via GNUTLS. We might > patch GNUTLS slightly on Solaris, but up to know it isn't 100% clear > to my why this happens. Yeah, patching the random number generation of the SSL package slightly ... what could go wrong ... Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99 _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Solaris porting porting progress report on Sage 3.0.x
On Jun 4, 12:51 pm, "Dr. David Kirkby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 4, 5:13 am, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hello folks, Hi David, > > with malb's libSingular fix we are down from 120+ segfaults to about > > 100 doctest failures, none of them segfaults. While that does not look > > like much of an improvement nearly all of those errors are caused by > > the following few issues: > > > * notebook: /dev/random's entropy too low? -> hangs/slow startup? > > How about changing to /dev/urandom ? Well, I have seens the same problem on other Solaris boxen and we do not explicitly just /dev/random, but we do so via GNUTLS. We might patch GNUTLS slightly on Solaris, but up to know it isn't 100% clear to my why this happens. > That guarantees to not block, but obviosuly the flip side is the data > is not as random. I assume it uses some software method, to generate > data, completely independant of hardware when there is insufficient > data from hardware. Only guessing, I don't really know. > > > The plan now is to get 3.0.3 building on a x86-64 Solaris box since I > > have Maxima 5.15.0 + clisp 2.45.0 working on there and can dump sbcl > > from the Sparc box. We also merged some Singular pexpect fix into > > 3.0.1, so what we are seeing here is another Singular+pexpect bug. I > > am sure William will track that one down. > > > Cheers, > > > Michael > > As I said in another post, I've currently not got my x86 laptop, but I > still have the Sun SPARC. I will try to find time to test the latest > code on this. Ok. The main reason I am switching to an x86-64 build box besides clisp is that it builds much more quickly since the Opterons in there are better in that regard than the 1.5GHz US 3is. It is also quite easy for people to run Solaris x86-64 in a VMWare image. Obviously Sparc hardware should be fully supported. Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ohloh
On Wednesday 04 June 2008, Jaap Spies wrote: > Just found this: > > http://www.ohloh.net/projects/sage > > Sage seems to have 5 users and 173 contributors :-)! > > Jaap Another thing (this is a funny tool to play with :-)) """ Few source code comments Sage: Open Source Mathematics Software is written mostly in Python. Across all Python projects on Ohloh, 12% of all source code lines are comments. For Sage: Open Source Mathematics Software, this figure is only 6%. This lack of comments puts Sage: Open Source Mathematics Software among the lowest one-third of all Python projects on Ohloh. A high number of comments might indicate that the code is well-documented and organized, and could be a sign of a helpful and disciplined development team. """ http://www.ohloh.net/projects/sage/factoids/473512 I bet they don't count docstrings as comments and this is why Sage scores so low. Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99 _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
On Jun 4, 2:06 pm, "Dr. David Kirkby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's my attempt to build sage 3.0.2 on Solaris (SPARC). > > The build process reports gmp_aux.h is not found, I checked and there > is no such file. However, this in itself does not cause the build > process to stop, but it later stops when various things are > undefined. > > See below. > > The system in a Sun Blade 2000 running Solaris 10 update 4. gcc 4.0.2 > from Blastwave, and gnu make. > > I noticed gmp_aux.h exists in Singlular I have on the disk, but I'm > not sure if that is the correct version. In any case, it needs > fixing. > > Dave Hi Dave, I know one issue with NTL that pops up when people use either csh or tcsh as a login shell and I got a likely fix that will be in Sage 3.0.3. Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ohloh
On Wednesday 04 June 2008, Jaap Spies wrote: > Just found this: > > http://www.ohloh.net/projects/sage > > Sage seems to have 5 users and 173 contributors :-)! Is this relevant: http://www.ohloh.net/projects/sage/factoids/473513 ? Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99 _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
Dr. David Kirkby wrote: > Here's my attempt to build sage 3.0.2 on Solaris (SPARC). > > The build process reports gmp_aux.h is not found, I checked and there > is no such file. However, this in itself does not cause the build > process to stop, but it later stops when various things are > undefined. > > See below. > > The system in a Sun Blade 2000 running Solaris 10 update 4. gcc 4.0.2 > from Blastwave, and gnu make. > > > I noticed gmp_aux.h exists in Singlular I have on the disk, but I'm > not sure if that is the correct version. In any case, it needs > fixing. > > Dave > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[~/sage-3.0.2] $ make SAGE_PORT=45 > > x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/pair_GF2EX_long.c, 385 bytes, 1 tape blocks > x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/DispSettings.c, 2197 bytes, 5 tape blocks > x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/pair_lzz_pX_long.c, 386 bytes, 1 tape blocks > Finished extraction > > Host system > uname -a: > SunOS kestrel 5.10 Generic_120011-14 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Blade-1000 > > > GCC Version > gcc -v > Reading specs from /usr/local/opt/csw/gcc4/bin/../lib/gcc/sparc-sun- > solaris2.8/4.0.2/specs > Target: sparc-sun-solaris2.8 > Configured with: ../sources/gcc-4.0.2/configure --prefix=/opt/csw/gcc4 > --with-local-prefix=/opt/csw --without-gnu-as --with-as=/usr/ccs/bin/ > as --without-gnu-ld --with-ld=/usr/ccs/bin/ld --enable-threads=posix -- > enable-shared --enable-multilib --enable-nls --with-included-gettext -- > with-libiconv-prefix=/opt/csw --with-x --enable-java-awt=xlib --with- > system-zlib --enable-languages=c,c++,f95,java,objc,ada > Thread model: posix > gcc version 4.0.2 > > writing makefile > writing ../include/NTL/config.h > Building and install NTL > make[2]: Entering directory `/export/home/drkirkby/sage-3.0.2/spkg/ > build/ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src' > rm -f FFT.o FacVec.o GF2.o GF2E.o GF2EX.o GF2EXFactoring.o GF2X.o > GF2X1.o GF2XFactoring.o GF2XVec.o GetTime.o HNF.o ctools.o LLL.o > LLL_FP.o LLL_QP.o LLL_RR.o LLL_XD.o RR.o WordVector.o ZZ.o ZZVec.o > ZZX.o ZZX1.o ZZXCharPoly.o ZZXFactoring.o ZZ_p.o ZZ_pE.o ZZ_pEX.o > ZZ_pEXFactoring.o ZZ_pX.o ZZ_pX1.o ZZ_pXCharPoly.o ZZ_pXFactoring.o > fileio.o lip.o lzz_p.o lzz_pE.o lzz_pEX.o lzz_pEXFactoring.o lzz_pX.o > lzz_pX1.o lzz_pXCharPoly.o lzz_pXFactoring.o mat_GF2.o mat_GF2E.o > mat_RR.o mat_ZZ.o mat_ZZ_p.o mat_ZZ_pE.o mat_lzz_p.o mat_lzz_pE.o > mat_poly_ZZ.o mat_poly_ZZ_p.o mat_poly_lzz_p.o pair_GF2EX_long.o > pair_GF2X_long.o pair_ZZX_long.o pair_ZZ_pEX_long.o pair_ZZ_pX_long.o > pair_lzz_pEX_long.o pair_lzz_pX_long.o quad_float.o tools.o vec_GF2.o > vec_GF2E.o vec_GF2XVec.o vec_RR.o vec_ZZ.o vec_ZZVec.o vec_ZZ_p.o > vec_ZZ_pE.o vec_double.o vec_long.o vec_lzz_p.o vec_lzz_pE.o > vec_quad_float.o vec_vec_GF2.o vec_vec_GF2E.o vec_vec_RR.o > vec_vec_ZZ.o vec_vec_ZZ_p.o vec_vec_ZZ_pE.o vec_vec_long.o > vec_vec_lzz_p.o vec_vec_lzz_pE.o vec_xdouble.o xdouble.o G_LLL_FP.o > G_LLL_QP.o G_LLL_XD.o G_LLL_RR.o vec_ulong.o vec_vec_ulong.o # clean, > preserving tuning parameters > make shobj > make[3]: Entering directory `/export/home/drkirkby/sage-3.0.2/spkg/ > build/ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src' > g++ -I../include -I. -O2 -g -fPIC -fPIC -c FFT.c > In file included from ../include/NTL/tools.h:5, > from ../include/NTL/vector.h:5, > from ../include/NTL/vec_long.h:5, > from ../include/NTL/FFT.h:6, > from FFT.c:3: > ../include/NTL/ctools.h:6:27: error: NTL/mach_desc.h: No such file or > directory > In file included from ../include/NTL/ZZ.h:18, > from ../include/NTL/FFT.h:7, > from FFT.c:3: > ../include/NTL/lip.h:10:25: error: NTL/gmp_aux.h: No such file or > directory > ../include/NTL/tools.h: In function 'void NTL::conv(int&, long int)': > ../include/NTL/tools.h:171: error: 'NTL_BITS_PER_INT' was not declared > in this scope > ../include/NTL/tools.h:171: error: 'NTL_MIN_INT' was not declared in > this scope > ../include/NTL/tools.h: In function 'void NTL::conv(int&, unsigned > int)': > ../include/NTL/tools.h:176: error: 'NTL_BITS_PER_INT' was not declared > in this scope > ../include/NTL/tools.h:176: error: 'NTL_MIN_INT' was not declared in > this scope > ../include/NTL/tools.h: In function 'void NTL::conv(int&, long > unsigned int)': > ../include/NTL/tools.h:179: error: 'NTL_BITS_PER_INT' was not declared > in this scope > ../include/NTL/tools.h:179: error: 'NTL_MIN_INT' was not declared in > this scope > ../include/NTL/tools.h: In function 'int NTL::to_int(long int)': > ../include/NTL/tools.h:183: error: 'NTL_BITS_PER_INT' was not declared > in this scope > ../include/NTL/tools.h:183: error: 'NTL_MIN_INT' was not declared in > this scope > ../include/NTL/tools.h: In function 'int NTL::to_int(unsigned int)': > ../include/NTL/tools.h:188: error: 'NTL_BITS_PER_INT' was not declared
[sage-devel] ohloh
Just found this: http://www.ohloh.net/projects/sage Sage seems to have 5 users and 173 contributors :-)! Jaap --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Problems building Sage 3.0.2 on Solaris 10 - NTL issue
Here's my attempt to build sage 3.0.2 on Solaris (SPARC). The build process reports gmp_aux.h is not found, I checked and there is no such file. However, this in itself does not cause the build process to stop, but it later stops when various things are undefined. See below. The system in a Sun Blade 2000 running Solaris 10 update 4. gcc 4.0.2 from Blastwave, and gnu make. I noticed gmp_aux.h exists in Singlular I have on the disk, but I'm not sure if that is the correct version. In any case, it needs fixing. Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[~/sage-3.0.2] $ make SAGE_PORT=45 x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/pair_GF2EX_long.c, 385 bytes, 1 tape blocks x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/DispSettings.c, 2197 bytes, 5 tape blocks x ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src/pair_lzz_pX_long.c, 386 bytes, 1 tape blocks Finished extraction Host system uname -a: SunOS kestrel 5.10 Generic_120011-14 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Blade-1000 GCC Version gcc -v Reading specs from /usr/local/opt/csw/gcc4/bin/../lib/gcc/sparc-sun- solaris2.8/4.0.2/specs Target: sparc-sun-solaris2.8 Configured with: ../sources/gcc-4.0.2/configure --prefix=/opt/csw/gcc4 --with-local-prefix=/opt/csw --without-gnu-as --with-as=/usr/ccs/bin/ as --without-gnu-ld --with-ld=/usr/ccs/bin/ld --enable-threads=posix -- enable-shared --enable-multilib --enable-nls --with-included-gettext -- with-libiconv-prefix=/opt/csw --with-x --enable-java-awt=xlib --with- system-zlib --enable-languages=c,c++,f95,java,objc,ada Thread model: posix gcc version 4.0.2 writing makefile writing ../include/NTL/config.h Building and install NTL make[2]: Entering directory `/export/home/drkirkby/sage-3.0.2/spkg/ build/ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src' rm -f FFT.o FacVec.o GF2.o GF2E.o GF2EX.o GF2EXFactoring.o GF2X.o GF2X1.o GF2XFactoring.o GF2XVec.o GetTime.o HNF.o ctools.o LLL.o LLL_FP.o LLL_QP.o LLL_RR.o LLL_XD.o RR.o WordVector.o ZZ.o ZZVec.o ZZX.o ZZX1.o ZZXCharPoly.o ZZXFactoring.o ZZ_p.o ZZ_pE.o ZZ_pEX.o ZZ_pEXFactoring.o ZZ_pX.o ZZ_pX1.o ZZ_pXCharPoly.o ZZ_pXFactoring.o fileio.o lip.o lzz_p.o lzz_pE.o lzz_pEX.o lzz_pEXFactoring.o lzz_pX.o lzz_pX1.o lzz_pXCharPoly.o lzz_pXFactoring.o mat_GF2.o mat_GF2E.o mat_RR.o mat_ZZ.o mat_ZZ_p.o mat_ZZ_pE.o mat_lzz_p.o mat_lzz_pE.o mat_poly_ZZ.o mat_poly_ZZ_p.o mat_poly_lzz_p.o pair_GF2EX_long.o pair_GF2X_long.o pair_ZZX_long.o pair_ZZ_pEX_long.o pair_ZZ_pX_long.o pair_lzz_pEX_long.o pair_lzz_pX_long.o quad_float.o tools.o vec_GF2.o vec_GF2E.o vec_GF2XVec.o vec_RR.o vec_ZZ.o vec_ZZVec.o vec_ZZ_p.o vec_ZZ_pE.o vec_double.o vec_long.o vec_lzz_p.o vec_lzz_pE.o vec_quad_float.o vec_vec_GF2.o vec_vec_GF2E.o vec_vec_RR.o vec_vec_ZZ.o vec_vec_ZZ_p.o vec_vec_ZZ_pE.o vec_vec_long.o vec_vec_lzz_p.o vec_vec_lzz_pE.o vec_xdouble.o xdouble.o G_LLL_FP.o G_LLL_QP.o G_LLL_XD.o G_LLL_RR.o vec_ulong.o vec_vec_ulong.o # clean, preserving tuning parameters make shobj make[3]: Entering directory `/export/home/drkirkby/sage-3.0.2/spkg/ build/ntl-5.4.2.p3/src/src' g++ -I../include -I. -O2 -g -fPIC -fPIC -c FFT.c In file included from ../include/NTL/tools.h:5, from ../include/NTL/vector.h:5, from ../include/NTL/vec_long.h:5, from ../include/NTL/FFT.h:6, from FFT.c:3: ../include/NTL/ctools.h:6:27: error: NTL/mach_desc.h: No such file or directory In file included from ../include/NTL/ZZ.h:18, from ../include/NTL/FFT.h:7, from FFT.c:3: ../include/NTL/lip.h:10:25: error: NTL/gmp_aux.h: No such file or directory ../include/NTL/tools.h: In function 'void NTL::conv(int&, long int)': ../include/NTL/tools.h:171: error: 'NTL_BITS_PER_INT' was not declared in this scope ../include/NTL/tools.h:171: error: 'NTL_MIN_INT' was not declared in this scope ../include/NTL/tools.h: In function 'void NTL::conv(int&, unsigned int)': ../include/NTL/tools.h:176: error: 'NTL_BITS_PER_INT' was not declared in this scope ../include/NTL/tools.h:176: error: 'NTL_MIN_INT' was not declared in this scope ../include/NTL/tools.h: In function 'void NTL::conv(int&, long unsigned int)': ../include/NTL/tools.h:179: error: 'NTL_BITS_PER_INT' was not declared in this scope ../include/NTL/tools.h:179: error: 'NTL_MIN_INT' was not declared in this scope ../include/NTL/tools.h: In function 'int NTL::to_int(long int)': ../include/NTL/tools.h:183: error: 'NTL_BITS_PER_INT' was not declared in this scope ../include/NTL/tools.h:183: error: 'NTL_MIN_INT' was not declared in this scope ../include/NTL/tools.h: In function 'int NTL::to_int(unsigned int)': ../include/NTL/tools.h:188: error: 'NTL_BITS_PER_INT' was not declared in this scope ../include/NTL/tools.h:188: error: 'NTL_MIN_INT' was not declared in this scope ../include/NTL/tools.h: In function 'int NTL::to_int(long unsigned int)': ../include/NTL/tools.h:191: error: 'NTL_BITS_PER_INT' was not decl
[sage-devel] Re: coercing of sqrt(2)
On Jun 4, 2008, at 7:07 AM, Bill Page wrote: > Ok (and thanks also for the clarification, David). There are of course > two different uses of "object" here: 1) object of some category, 2) > Python object. All Python objects have a 'type', i.e. belong to some > Python class. > > So in Sage 3.0.2 I observe for example: > > sage: type(1) > > sage: parent(1) > Integer Ring > sage: type(parent(1)) > > sage: category(parent(1)) > Category of rings > sage: type(category(parent(1))) > > > and > > sage: type(1.0) > > sage: parent(1.0) > Real Field with 53 bits of precision > sage: type(parent(1.0)) > > sage: category(parent(1.0)) > Category of fields > sage: type(category(parent(1.0))) > > > These seem consistent to me, albeit rather complex. However I am not > sure I understand the following: > > sage: parent(IntegerRing()) > > sage: parent(RealField()) > > > Could you explain why the parent of an object of some category is a > type? I'm not an expert on these things any more, but I can tell you what happened back in the day (when the sage version number was slightly smaller): Only "elements" have real parents. Since ZZ = IntegerRing() is not an "element", it doesn't have a parent. If X does not have a parent, then parent(X) returns the type of X instead. I'm not sure this is a good idea, but there it is. Of course then you're wondering why ZZ is not an element of the category of the rings. That I do not know. But you can try: sage: IntegerRing().parent() to see that IntegerRing() simply doesn't have a parent() method, which is why the global version parent(IntegerRing()) returns the type of IntegerRing() instead. One difficulty with ZZ being both a parent and an element is that Cython does not support multiple inheritance. BTW I should mention that the whole idea of "parents" vs "types" is one of the main conceptual things inherited from Magma. sorry gotta go cannot answer rest of email, hopefully someone else can david --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: coercing of sqrt(2)
Robert, Thanks for the elaboration. I hope that this follow-up is not too far off topic and I don't want to distract you (or any of the Sage developers) from your main tasks. I wrote this mostly as notes and questions to myself - but if you or anyone else have some time or the inclination to correct or comment as time permits, that would be great. On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote: > > On Jun 3, 2008, at 4:50 PM, Bill Page wrote: > >> How does it [categories in Sage] relate to the >> concept of "parent" - which seems equally ill-defined to me? > > A Parent is an Object in the category of Sets, though in the context > of coercion one usually assumes one can some kind of arithmetic > (binary operations) on their elements. > ... > On Jun 3, 2008, at 7:11 PM, David Harvey wrote: > ... >> Don't you mean to say something more like "a parent is an object >> of a concrete category", i.e. a category C with a faithful functor >> f : C -> Set, such that the "elements" (as understood by Sage) of >> the parent P are exactly the elements of f(P)? Ok (and thanks also for the clarification, David). There are of course two different uses of "object" here: 1) object of some category, 2) Python object. All Python objects have a 'type', i.e. belong to some Python class. So in Sage 3.0.2 I observe for example: sage: type(1) sage: parent(1) Integer Ring sage: type(parent(1)) sage: category(parent(1)) Category of rings sage: type(category(parent(1))) and sage: type(1.0) sage: parent(1.0) Real Field with 53 bits of precision sage: type(parent(1.0)) sage: category(parent(1.0)) Category of fields sage: type(category(parent(1.0))) These seem consistent to me, albeit rather complex. However I am not sure I understand the following: sage: parent(IntegerRing()) sage: parent(RealField()) Could you explain why the parent of an object of some category is a type? > >> What is the relationship to inheritance in Python? Is the intention >> to give all mathematical objects defined in Sage some categorical >> structure? What about categories themselves as mathematical >> structures - e.g. a category is a kind of directed graph with additional >> structure? > > A big push of this model is to divorce the relationship between > inheritance (which primarily has to do with implementation) and > mathematical categorization. At first blush it still seems strange to me to distinguish between the parent of an object and the type of an object. The instances of a type are often considered elements. Is the invention of 'parent' in Sage due to some inherent limitation of Python classes? Do you really want to say more abstractly that a certain type *represents* a certain parent? E.g. Does 'sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealNumber' represent 'RealField()'? Can there be other representations of 'RealField()' in Sage? How can I find out for example if 'sage.rings.integer.Integer' represents 'IntegerRing()'? >From my experience with Axiom I am sympathetic to the separation of implementation and specification but in Axiom "domains" are both parents and types. A domain can inherit it's implementation from another domain (via add). A domain can also serve as the representation for some other domain (via Rep). For example IntegerMod(5) is the representation of PrimeField(5). IntegerMod(5) in turn is represented by SingleInteger, etc. In Axiom, at the deepest level all types are ultimately provided by Lisp. These types are not really Axiom domains and so I suppose the situation is analogous to Python types and Sage parents. Axiom categories on the other hand form a lattice. Domains belong to categories by assertion or by virtue of the subdomain relationship. In Axiom there is an operator named 'has' which provides the same information as 'category' in Sage so that: x has y is just 'y == category(x)'. For example 'Float has Field' is equivalent to: sage: Fields() == category(RealField()) True Although in Axiom a domain may satisfy more than one category. Will this be possible in Sage in the future? What information does Sage actually have about a given category? For example, what does Sage know about the relationship between Rings() and Fields()? E.g. functors? None of this has much to do with "category theory" as such. Categories in Axiom are only vaguely related to categories in Mathematics. So I suppose from your description that categories in Sage will play a similar role but will be more strongly related to the mathematical concept? > This will allow categories to play a larger role (though work in that > area can be done after the merge as it is not disruptive). For > example, Z/nZ[x] is implemented the same whether or not p is > a prime, but the category it lives in (and hence the methods one > can do on it) vary. Are you suggesting that Z/pZ should be considered a field just because p is prime? sage: category(Zmod(7)) Category of rings sage: Zmod(7).is_field() True Perhaps an alternative would be to provide a c
[sage-devel] Re: Solaris porting porting progress report on Sage 3.0.x
On Jun 4, 5:13 am, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello folks, > > with malb's libSingular fix we are down from 120+ segfaults to about > 100 doctest failures, none of them segfaults. While that does not look > like much of an improvement nearly all of those errors are caused by > the following few issues: > > * notebook: /dev/random's entropy too low? -> hangs/slow startup? How about changing to /dev/urandom ? That guarantees to not block, but obviosuly the flip side is the data is not as random. I assume it uses some software method, to generate data, completely independant of hardware when there is insufficient data from hardware. Only guessing, I don't really know. > The plan now is to get 3.0.3 building on a x86-64 Solaris box since I > have Maxima 5.15.0 + clisp 2.45.0 working on there and can dump sbcl > from the Sparc box. We also merged some Singular pexpect fix into > 3.0.1, so what we are seeing here is another Singular+pexpect bug. I > am sure William will track that one down. > > Cheers, > > Michael As I said in another post, I've currently not got my x86 laptop, but I still have the Sun SPARC. I will try to find time to test the latest code on this. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Early failure of 3.0.3.alpha0 on Solaris Express on x86
On May 30, 10:03 am, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On May 30, 10:06 am, "Dr. David Kirkby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > I managed to get quite a way building 3.0.2 on my Solaris laptop > > before there were any issues at all, but with 3.0.3.alpha0 things have > > not gone so smoothly. However, I have very recently updated the > > software on the laptop, so perhaps it is not Sage at fault. > I would suggest you change the shebang of spkg-install to "#!/usr/bin/ > env bash". I didn't try this myself, but I suspect it will fix the > issue and I am not sure why this didn't happen when the spkg was > upgraded. > > Cheers, > > Michael I do not currently have access to the laptop, having loaned it to my father while his is being repaired. But when I get it back, I will try this. I might have a try on my Sun Blade 2000 though, as I've still got that here. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Lattice Boltzmann method
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_Boltzmann_methods the packages http://www.lbmethod.org/openlb/ and http://www.physics.ndsu.nodak.edu/people/wagner/LB.html are GPL'd. The first is GPLv2 but SAGE is licensed GPLv2+, and the second is licenced under the "GPL" but doesn't say which version. The second requires some graphics libraries though. In either case, neither have a SAGE interface but if you interested in writing one, chap 6 in the Programming manual http://www.sagemath.org/doc/html/prog/index.html might help. On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Owen Densmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Is there a Sage package for LB method modeling? > > -- Owen > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: more licensing discussion - Blender
On Jun 4, 1:32 am, "David Joyner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would like to learn a bit about Blender too. If you have a book you'd > recommend, please let me know. I've played around with blender and it's amazingly cool if you understand how it works (the UI), but this takes some time. I don't think a book will do it, because you need to learn the movements (hands, eyes, ...) to interact. So, my strong advice, search for screencasts! There are a lot of them and after you learned the keys g,r,space,s and some more you are ready to start with them. A book (even written tutorials) is too static. H --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: coercing of sqrt(2)
2008/6/4 Robert Bradshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > But right now we've already got enough on our plate trying to get the > changes we have pushed through. (Any help on this front would be > greatly appreciated.) Robert, Can you be more specific about how others can help with this? John > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Debian packaging status update
The first bunch of SAGE dependencies entered the Debian NEW queue (the queue of packages waiting for review from the Debian ftpmasters before they are uploaded to Debian unstable) tonight; by tomorrow I expect that that the remaining SAGE dependencies will enter the Debian NEW queue. I am thus currently optimistic that we will be able to get SAGE 3.0.3 or 3.0.4 into Debian Lenny. There are a few potential issues involved: - The Debian polybori package is polybori 0.4, which includes a number of upstream fixes that made packaging it for Debian easier. SAGE is still at 0.3; I would thus greatly appreciate it if SAGE 3.03 were to be using polybori 0.4 as well (this is #3264). - I've also packaged guava 3.5, which contains a number of upstream fixes to various minor packaging problems. I would really appreciate it if SAGE were to upgrade to guava 3.5 so that I can be sure things will be compatible (this is #3337). - I've also packaged sympow 1.019 rather than sympow 1.018; that change is negligible and doesn't affect any APIs, so I'm not concerned about this breaking things. - At the moment, I have not uploaded a package for flintqs, because it is my understanding that the flintqs spkg will be replaced by the quadratic sieve in flint in the not-far-off future. Correct me if this is not the case. (Ideally, SAGE would do this before but I can live with this not being the case). - At the moment, I have not uploaded a package for linbox_wrap because I expect it to be merged into mainline linbox in the next 10 days or so. If there are likely to be any other dependency spkgs that are scheduled for updates in the 3.0.3 or 3.0.4 release cycles, I would like to hear about them so that I can plan accordingly. -Tim Abbott --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
