Re: [RCSE] RDS on Slopers?
...the bend in the aileron shaft can be cut to 32 degrees. This results in a : mechanical advantage that doubles the effective torque and resolution of : the servo. My previous mail was trying to point out that servo overloading with aileron input at high speed is a perceived problem at the engineering level lead by an error perception. The error gave us a static model of the problem that the speeding wing in an initial fixed angle of attack remain unchanged at any time and any aileron angle. It also assume that the aileron may reach at final set angle in zero time. Most of the analysis I review follow that assumption. The analysis result will lead us to believe that aileron related servo loading (or overloading) is dominated by air speed. I have seen huge numbers at the analysis output. Lets consider this: (given sub-sonic air speed). 1) Servo will not step to final angle in zero time. 2) Wing will begin bank before aileron has reached to its final setting. 3) A banking wing produce a lower effective aileron angle at any air speed. 4) A certain banking moment force is required to aileron of a specific plane at a given bank rate at any air speed 5) To satisfy a given bank rate at any air speed, aileron displacement angle is inversely proportion to air speed. In other words, higher air speed need less aileron input, and vice versa. 6) Therefore servo loading is proportional to bank rate at any air speed. I trust you all will enjoy RDS from now, slope or thermal. YK RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] RDS on Slopers?
Harley, you are welcome. -YK - Original Message - From: Harley Michaelis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: YK Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] RDS on Slopers? : YK. . .thanks for your contributions of today and yesterday. : : As also pointed out by engineer Steve Fujikawa in his material in the RDS : website, if 30 degrees of aileron deflection will suit the purpose, the : bend in the aileron shaft can be cut to 32 degrees. This results in a : mechanical advantage that doubles the effective torque and resolution of : the servo. This would be meaningful in higher speed applications such as : slope racing. I know I am not expressing this in proper engineering terms, : but it may be better understood by some readers. : : Thanks for your support. : : -- : > From: YK Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : > Subject: Re: [RCSE] RDS on Slopers? : > Date: Saturday, May 26, 2001 7:03 PM : > : > Aileron force: : > The moment force analysis I have seen so far are unrealistic, as it is : > static based. Static based refers to wind tunnel condition at which wing : is : > not flying (to be exact not in a dynamic condition banking at a certain : > rate at a given aileron input). A static analysis will produce horrendous : > moment force demand that no popular servo can provide. Most writers of : > subject are confused themselves between aero-static and aero-dynamics. : We, : > however, diligently follow their direction at face value. : > : > RDS understanding: : > The aerodynamic force at the ailerons will oppose the RDS rod end section : > similar to the way we torque an Allen Wrench (hex key). Please also see : the : > transfer function (input degree vs. output degree) in spreadsheet : > downloadable at Harley's web-site. The in/output transfer (90* bend) is : > nearly 1:1 at low angle displacement and soon enters much less than : unity, : > beyond which produce increasing torque amplification. Such : characteristics : > is especially favorable to flap applications. On the other hand, RDS in : > aileron application comes in with torque rod end section bend at 45* and : > this will provide even more torque amplification from input axis (the : > servo) to output axis (the hinge). : > : > I trust you will enjoy your new RDS. : > : > YK : > : > - Original Message - : > From: Paul Klissner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : > Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:46 AM : > Subject: [RCSE] RDS on Slopers? : > : > : > : What about gliders that take a lot of stress in flight? : > : : > : I actually have a bag of RDS couplers I bought from Harley, : > : awhile back, intrigued with the concept, but have never used. : > : : > : The unverified concern I heard is that the axle that conveys : > : the servo's force would be difficult to make rigid enough to : > : avoid being spongy against the opposing torsional : > : forces between the servo and the wind pressing hard : > : on the control surface. : > : : > : In other words aillerons under a lot of force might not : > : hold their position as strongly as normal linkages and would : > : be spongy, at least relatively to the more conventional linkages. : > : : > : I'm not saying that this is the case for sure, as I've never : > : tried it. I'm saying I've been warned, and the argument made : > : sense to me, at least enough to want to exercise caution. : > : : > : Can anyone with practical experience and a clear understanding : > : of this address that concern honestly and accrurately? : > : : > : -Paul : > : RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" : > and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] : > : > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" : and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] : RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Another R/C glider guider turned Full Scale competitor
>...I was told recently that several of my generation of late 70's R/C flyers are now >nationally competitive in sailplanes. I think one was Rick Walters and there >were a couple of the other guys whose names I can't recall. Maybe a lister >will fill in some details. > >Richard Shilling Hi Dick... Gary Ittner, a former SFVSF'er, is another highly sucessful full scale competitor. (That's San Fernando Valley Silent Flyer for you non left-coasters.) Stan Hinman LSF 255 Redmond, Oregon [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Highlander
Highlander, building do's and what noit to do. Is full house the best or will Poly be ok. which Servos are fit best? Thanks BBT __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Unusual Aviation Photos
I ran across this looking for something else!!! http://aviation.about.com/hobbies/aviation/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aviationpics.de%2F About.com http--www.aviationpics.de-.url
[RCSE] OT: ScramJet is toast (literally)
Off-topic... NASA had to destroy the X43-A prototype when it had a booster malfunction. Looks like we'll have to wait a little longer for that space vacation. Apparently the problems weren't with the scramjet itself...it was never ignited. X-15 still holds the speed record with Mach 6.7. "The Pegasus went out of control, it appeared parts were breaking off of it," said Alan Brown, a National Aeronautics and Space Administration spokesman. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010602/sc/space_plane_dc_1.html - David [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] (no subject)
hey RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] RDS on Slopers?
YK. . .thanks for your contributions of today and yesterday. As also pointed out by engineer Steve Fujikawa in his material in the RDS website, if 30 degrees of aileron deflection will suit the purpose, the bend in the aileron shaft can be cut to 32 degrees. This results in a mechanical advantage that doubles the effective torque and resolution of the servo. This would be meaningful in higher speed applications such as slope racing. I know I am not expressing this in proper engineering terms, but it may be better understood by some readers. Thanks for your support. -- > From: YK Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [RCSE] RDS on Slopers? > Date: Saturday, May 26, 2001 7:03 PM > > Aileron force: > The moment force analysis I have seen so far are unrealistic, as it is > static based. Static based refers to wind tunnel condition at which wing is > not flying (to be exact not in a dynamic condition banking at a certain > rate at a given aileron input). A static analysis will produce horrendous > moment force demand that no popular servo can provide. Most writers of > subject are confused themselves between aero-static and aero-dynamics. We, > however, diligently follow their direction at face value. > > RDS understanding: > The aerodynamic force at the ailerons will oppose the RDS rod end section > similar to the way we torque an Allen Wrench (hex key). Please also see the > transfer function (input degree vs. output degree) in spreadsheet > downloadable at Harley's web-site. The in/output transfer (90* bend) is > nearly 1:1 at low angle displacement and soon enters much less than unity, > beyond which produce increasing torque amplification. Such characteristics > is especially favorable to flap applications. On the other hand, RDS in > aileron application comes in with torque rod end section bend at 45* and > this will provide even more torque amplification from input axis (the > servo) to output axis (the hinge). > > I trust you will enjoy your new RDS. > > YK > > - Original Message - > From: Paul Klissner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:46 AM > Subject: [RCSE] RDS on Slopers? > > > : What about gliders that take a lot of stress in flight? > : > : I actually have a bag of RDS couplers I bought from Harley, > : awhile back, intrigued with the concept, but have never used. > : > : The unverified concern I heard is that the axle that conveys > : the servo's force would be difficult to make rigid enough to > : avoid being spongy against the opposing torsional > : forces between the servo and the wind pressing hard > : on the control surface. > : > : In other words aillerons under a lot of force might not > : hold their position as strongly as normal linkages and would > : be spongy, at least relatively to the more conventional linkages. > : > : I'm not saying that this is the case for sure, as I've never > : tried it. I'm saying I've been warned, and the argument made > : sense to me, at least enough to want to exercise caution. > : > : Can anyone with practical experience and a clear understanding > : of this address that concern honestly and accrurately? > : > : -Paul > : RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" > and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Airtronics Eagle
Folks... Can anyone give me some info on the Airtronics Eagle? I know it is full house, glass fuse with obechi/foam wings. Is it a Mark Allen design? Good and bad points will be appreciated. Thanks, Mark __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Re: Bending music wire
If music wire is made of 1060, its carbon content is relative high. According to the following data, 1060 has Rockwell hardness of 32. Low carbon steel are rated in the order of 1012, to 1018. To harden 1060 steel, see the following temperature ratings. (Note after quench, it is necessary to bake it at specified temperature. The baking is called tempering, or it become ceramic brittle) The following are extract from a web site. http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=M1060K&group=General AISI 1060 Steel, oil quenched 845°C (1550°F), 480°C (900°F) temper, 13 mm (0.5 in.) round Subcategory: Carbon Steel; AISI 1000 Series Steel; High Carbon Steel Composition: ComponentWt. % C0.55 - 0.66 Fe 98.35 - 98.85 Mn 0.6 - 0.9 PMax 0.04 SMax 0.05 Hardness Rockwell B 99 Hardness Rockwell C 32 hope that helps YK RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] The annual Eagle Butte pilgrimage
This year, we're attending the S&E Modeler scale fun fly at Eagle Butte on June 9 and 10, and we're staying to fly at the various slopes for a few days thereafter. For those attending the event, the following ShredAir slope and F3B planes will be on hand to inspect and to test fly before and after the scale event on each day: Brisk-II, Scar, Space, Stratos SR, and some electrics, if necessary. Some demo planes may be for sale, but we do not intend to bring NIB planes unless pre-arranged (please e-mail privately). Eagle Butte is a world-class slope site which can produce incredible lift. The site is privately owned and must be treated as such. Dynamic Soaring is not possible at Eagle Butte, but on nearby Kiona Butte, which is public land administered by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). Eagle and Kiona have easy landing approaches and good LZs, which makes them different from Chandler Butte, another BLM site nearby. Chandler is an awe-inspiring, west and north-west facing bowl. Landing there is not difficult for seasoned slope pilots but can be a bit intimidating for novices and those used to having large LZ's and flying "normal" landing patterns. If you have any time at all, come and enjoy the hospitality of the Mid-Columbia Soarers, the local club. June is typically an excellent month for catching the good south-west slope lift at Eagle Butte. Best, Dieter Mahlein, ShredAir RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] RDS on Slopers?
Aileron force: The moment force analysis I have seen so far are unrealistic, as it is static based. Static based refers to wind tunnel condition at which wing is not flying (to be exact not in a dynamic condition banking at a certain rate at a given aileron input). A static analysis will produce horrendous moment force demand that no popular servo can provide. Most writers of subject are confused themselves between aero-static and aero-dynamics. We, however, diligently follow their direction at face value. RDS understanding: The aerodynamic force at the ailerons will oppose the RDS rod end section similar to the way we torque an Allen Wrench (hex key). Please also see the transfer function (input degree vs. output degree) in spreadsheet downloadable at Harley's web-site. The in/output transfer (90* bend) is nearly 1:1 at low angle displacement and soon enters much less than unity, beyond which produce increasing torque amplification. Such characteristics is especially favorable to flap applications. On the other hand, RDS in aileron application comes in with torque rod end section bend at 45* and this will provide even more torque amplification from input axis (the servo) to output axis (the hinge). I trust you will enjoy your new RDS. YK - Original Message - From: Paul Klissner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:46 AM Subject: [RCSE] RDS on Slopers? : What about gliders that take a lot of stress in flight? : : I actually have a bag of RDS couplers I bought from Harley, : awhile back, intrigued with the concept, but have never used. : : The unverified concern I heard is that the axle that conveys : the servo's force would be difficult to make rigid enough to : avoid being spongy against the opposing torsional : forces between the servo and the wind pressing hard : on the control surface. : : In other words aillerons under a lot of force might not : hold their position as strongly as normal linkages and would : be spongy, at least relatively to the more conventional linkages. : : I'm not saying that this is the case for sure, as I've never : tried it. I'm saying I've been warned, and the argument made : sense to me, at least enough to want to exercise caution. : : Can anyone with practical experience and a clear understanding : of this address that concern honestly and accrurately? : : -Paul : RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Full Scale and Models
When I was stationed in France in the late 50's, I accumulated 10 hours in gliders. They wouldn't let me solo because the glider field was in the approach path of my USAF base and they figured if I wiped myself out, they'd be shut down. I loved the flying and vowed to take up sailplane flying later in my life. During my R/C sailplane career I investigated flying full-scale sailplane piloting. Too far, too expensive and I was having too much fun with R/C sailplanes. Eventually, I didn't miss the idea of full scale soaring at all. Recently, after a 20 year hiatus, the thermal I hit was just as magic as the very first one in 1971! If you can touch the magic, why not? That said, my opinion is that R/C sailplane pilots make fine full-scale pilots. They know how airplanes fly, respect them and let's face it - we've all crashed and know that things that fly can come down unexpectedly and suddenly; many full-scale pilots refuse to acknowledge this! I was told recently that several of my generation of late 70's R/C flyers are now nationally competitive in sailplanes. I think one was Rick Walters and there were a couple of the other guys whose names I can't recall. Maybe a lister will fill in some details. Richard Shilling RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] IHLGF Results?
Anyone have the IHLGF results for Saturday? _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
