[RCSE] Christmas Help
There is a young man in our club that wants a plane for Christmas. He currently flies an Aspire 2 meter and want something larger. (100 inches or bigger). He does not have the capacity to build (mentally challenged) and not a lot of money. I'm not sure of what's on the market that would be OK for him. He tries hard but it has to be simple, easy to fly and low cost. Any suggestions? Thanks Don Cleveland Houston Hawks RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] I never thought I'd write a note like this, but....
I need some help with cutting foam and bagging wings and making various molded parts. In my other current reality I am a Prof. of Materials Science at Washington State University. Lots of wonderful theory of adhesives and composites. I've never been that interested in actually doing my own bagging of composites, I am happy to send the occasional check to Fred Sage, NSP, and Polecat Aero for the toys I want and like. I have about 6-9 undergraduate engineering students who want to learn how to make modern composite airframes. I'm the only Prof. the school who is interested in this activity and have decided to work with them. These are sharp kids, but not familiar with R/C planes. I have voltage regulator/power supplies, good vacuum pumps. I know that somewhere someone has on a web site instructions for making a device similar in function to the Feather foam cutter. I do not know where. I believe that somewhere out there on the web are plans for a CNC foam cutting system. I don't known where to find this, either. Are there any web pages to take a raw newbie through the process? If one were to purchase an instruction book, could one point me at it. In the last week or so I've saved many of the posts dealing with foam work, but I'm hoping to find a condensed, "here-is-what-you-need-to-do" page to start with. Any and all help that would be found on the web for making foam or molded airframes would be most welcome. Please contact me off line to cut down on what might be noise for many of you. If you would like to get a collection of all the info I get, please let me know and I'll forward what I collect to you. Thanks, Bill -- Being happy doesn't mean everything's perfect, it just means you've decided to see beyond the imperfections. Bill Johns Pullman, WA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Re: NO RETRIEVERS AT THE NATS!!!!
In a message dated 12/10/2001 8:06:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ah! So there are twelve winches not launching models while the carts bring the lines back. how many launches could be done in that time? My guess is that if your doing 8 launches in 90 seconds you could probably launch at least another 8 people or more in the time it takes to drive the lines back and hook everyone up. Actually, no. with 5 persons on some frequencies, we often have to wait now for a clip to come in. The cart method, with this many entrants, still seems best. Dana
Re: [RCSE] Aerodynamic Considerations at Extreme Altitude
I think Mark Drella has worked on real life simulations of this sort for a Mars airplane, so he would also have some usefull information. Also, remember that, in addition to simulating a thinner Martian atmosphere, you need to simulate lower martian gravity (otherwise your wing loading will be higher then it would be if the plane were actually flying above Mars). I recall Mark telling me they did this by flying the airplane in a big parabolic (hyperbolic?) arc, so that the plane was experiencing 1/3 gravity. Brett Erik Alber wrote: > > Hello everyone, > At my high school (Skyview in Vancouver), we have a program called > Project Alpha. Project Alpha is an aerospace research program involving > research, design and development of aerospace projects for use in the real > world. Currently our focus is on the design of a Remotely Piloted Vehicle > (rpv) with the intention of possible flight in a Martian environment. I am > the RPV specialist in our group. I am leading efforts in designing, > building and > testing of an extreme high altitude balloon launched remotely piloted > vehicle for this project. Our team is intending to build a 140-120 inch > (approx. 3-3.5m) wingspan composite rpv capable of being launched at > altitudes of greater than 10 feet (30 km) and sustaining level flight at > or close to that altitude. This altitude will simulate the Martian > atmosphere. > We are currently engaged in the research/design/development stage of the > project. One of the major issues we are dealing with at this time is > aerodynamics of low-density airflow. I am familiar with near-earth flight > aerodynamics and build and fly radio control model sailplanes. I have > calculated that at that altitude (30 km), with our intended design, the > aircraft would have to fly at about 130-150 mph to sustain a Cl of about > 0.9. > > I am now faced with a series of unknowns. > -How will these velocities at these low air densities affect the airflow > over the wing? > -Will I run into problems with separation bubbles or compression effects? > -Will this air velocity tear my plane apart? > -Do I need to take special considerations into selecting/designing an > airfoil? > -if so, what should I do in respect to the airfoil? > -Will I need to take special consideration for low altitude flight such as > flaps to slow my airspeed or reflex to prevent stalling? > > Any other issues that may be applicable to this type of extreme altitude > flight that you can think of would be great too. > > If you know of any sources of additional information that I should refer > to, that would be appreciated. > > I appreciate any help you can provide. > > Thanks, > > Erik Alber > Skyview High School - Project Alpha > Portland Area Soaring Society Vice President > http://NuanceHLG.8k.com > Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and >"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- _ Brett Jaffee [EMAIL PROTECTED] R/C Slope and Power Homepage http://home.earthlink.net/~jaffee The Unoffical Extra 300 Home Page http://members.nbci.com/bjaffee/extra300/ OnTheWay Quake 3 Server Utility http://www.planetquake.com/ontheway _ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Mpx Super fl gear sets?
We should have them! Smooth Sailing, Karlton Spindle http://www.MultiplexRC.com http://www.svmSPEEDWAY.com http://www.SVMracing.com - Original Message - From: "Neal Capener" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 8:29 AM Subject: [RCSE] Mpx Super fl gear sets? > Looking for metal gear sets for these servos. Any Mpx dealers on the list? > > Thanks, > Neal > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Nats..reply
Darryl makes probably the best points. No need to add too much to that. These two notes really sum up the whole situation. The US (and AMA) are starting to slip in the FAI world, which is really the driving force behind the entire soaring scene. Without them we would still be flying built up poly ships and have never reached the model design and performance we have today. Everyone who owns a molded ship should thank the FAI people for pushing this technology. But Darryl's comments are important and true. Perhaps we should have a 2 contest team selection. It would increase the caliber of pilot representing the US in the international community. Granted we have Joe and Darryl, but who will replace them when they get slow :) Joe already had to design a bigger airplane so he can see it (hahaha). Seriously, the AMA is investigating ways to increase FAI participation. If the AMA decided to highlight it, then the LSF and soaring community should work with that as well. But to be proactive, we should also develop a strategy that keeps everyone happy and flying. Soaring is unique in that we do have many participants, if the AMA does decide to push FAI only every other year (I doubt it...but it could), then who loses? The LSF should present a proposal to the AMA to help with the FAI issue, while also protecting the other NATS participants. Jason Werner - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "soaring exchange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Nats..reply > > Well, I think poor ol' Jack's feeling a bit beat up. I don't think that was anybody's intention, at least not mine. I have enjoyed > > the Nats in all it's formats. Some better than others. They all have their pluses and minuses. The people who take charge of the > > contest do a fantastic job. I just wanted people to stop trashing some new ideas just because they were different, or didn't > > necessarily cater to their particular field of interest. (I don't fly FAI - so those events don't matter) And Jack, I don't think > > anybody expected them to take place at the very next Nats. > > > My sense of the initial post was not about trashing the Nationals in its current format, but was to look at different > > opportunities to increase participation in the FAI events. MY point was that we SHOULD look at ways to do this. Come on guys, > > these are the guys who represent our country in the International Soaring Community. > > Jack has asked me before about my thoughts about whether or not we should completely cancel F3B from the contest due to it's low > numbers. I would say, if left the way it is, yes, go ahead. From the perspective of someone who has to travel - get on a plane, take > all the models for the whole week with me to fly all the events, cuz, hey, if I'm going Now let's think about that - I have to > get 1 or 2 F3B models there, and 1 or 2 F3J models, and 1 or 2 Handlaunches, and a 2 Meter, and an open class TD plane ( I leave > before the RES and Nostalgia). I don't have a model box that fits all those. Just getting there gets expensive, and to ship or to > take as excess baggage is quite cost prohibitive. I even flew my TD plane in F3B one year just so I could compete. (And, yeah, I > have to listen to that guy say, "Hey, you remember that time I kicked your ass " ) You guys who are within driving distance > don't understand what we must go through to fly all the events. It's a royal pain in the ass - worth it, it must be since I keep > going - but a royal pain. > > OK, enough whining, but how DO we increase participation in the FAI events? > > I know for a fact that should the decision be made to fly a 2 or 3 day F3B event, there would be more participants. Would it take a > while to grow? Yes, of course. You really want it to grow? Make it a part of the Team Selections - kinda like a 2nd contest. For > example - on F3B TS years, one 3 day comp at the Nats, one 3 day comp over Labor Day as is currently done. The pilots can go to > either, or both, and are allowed one throwout contest. Top 3 scores = 3 team members. You wouldn't have to attend both contests, but > you'd be dumb not to if you're serious about making the team. The first place pilot would be guaranteed of making the team at either > comp, then the top scoring 2nd place finisher would be the 3rd pilot. This could be done for F3J on odd years as well. > > These are just ideas. I'm bouncing them out there. Most of you don't care about FAI, the US teams, Team Selections, etc But some > of us do. We would like a part in the National Championships. More than just a token 1 day event. > > Thanks for the bandwidth. And now back to your regularly scheduled Sal bashing - does that guy suck or what? ;-) > > Daryl > > > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model
[RCSE] Aerodynamic Considerations at Extreme Altitude
Hello everyone, At my high school (Skyview in Vancouver), we have a program called Project Alpha. Project Alpha is an aerospace research program involving research, design and development of aerospace projects for use in the real world. Currently our focus is on the design of a Remotely Piloted Vehicle (rpv) with the intention of possible flight in a Martian environment. I am the RPV specialist in our group. I am leading efforts in designing, building and testing of an extreme high altitude balloon launched remotely piloted vehicle for this project. Our team is intending to build a 140-120 inch (approx. 3-3.5m) wingspan composite rpv capable of being launched at altitudes of greater than 10 feet (30 km) and sustaining level flight at or close to that altitude. This altitude will simulate the Martian atmosphere. We are currently engaged in the research/design/development stage of the project. One of the major issues we are dealing with at this time is aerodynamics of low-density airflow. I am familiar with near-earth flight aerodynamics and build and fly radio control model sailplanes. I have calculated that at that altitude (30 km), with our intended design, the aircraft would have to fly at about 130-150 mph to sustain a Cl of about 0.9. I am now faced with a series of unknowns. -How will these velocities at these low air densities affect the airflow over the wing? -Will I run into problems with separation bubbles or compression effects? -Will this air velocity tear my plane apart? -Do I need to take special considerations into selecting/designing an airfoil? -if so, what should I do in respect to the airfoil? -Will I need to take special consideration for low altitude flight such as flaps to slow my airspeed or reflex to prevent stalling? Any other issues that may be applicable to this type of extreme altitude flight that you can think of would be great too. If you know of any sources of additional information that I should refer to, that would be appreciated. I appreciate any help you can provide. Thanks, Erik Alber Skyview High School - Project Alpha Portland Area Soaring Society Vice President http://NuanceHLG.8k.com Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Profi 40000
Assign the 6 servos to BUTTERFLY in Menu #2 In menu #1 under Adjust servos travel and curve assign the curves you desire per servo per input simple! We also have a email list server for profi users where we can answer your toot suite! [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Smooth Sailing,Karlton Spindlehttp://www.MultiplexRC.comhttp://www.svmSPEEDWAY.comhttp://www.SVMracing.com - Original Message - From: Hans Wiederkehr To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:35 PM Subject: [RCSE] Profi 4 O.k.,boys here goes.Have a profi 4000, anyone out there have a set-up for a sailplane with three servos in each wing panel? Like an Escape planformWish I could figure this thing out, its like having a great quarterback and not knowing how to use him Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.comRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Nats..reply
> Well, I think poor ol' Jack's feeling a bit beat up. I don't think that was >anybody's intention, at least not mine. I have enjoyed > the Nats in all it's formats. Some better than others. They all have their pluses >and minuses. The people who take charge of the > contest do a fantastic job. I just wanted people to stop trashing some new ideas >just because they were different, or didn't > necessarily cater to their particular field of interest. (I don't fly FAI - so those >events don't matter) And Jack, I don't think > anybody expected them to take place at the very next Nats. > My sense of the initial post was not about trashing the Nationals in its current >format, but was to look at different > opportunities to increase participation in the FAI events. MY point was that we >SHOULD look at ways to do this. Come on guys, > these are the guys who represent our country in the International Soaring Community. Jack has asked me before about my thoughts about whether or not we should completely cancel F3B from the contest due to it's low numbers. I would say, if left the way it is, yes, go ahead. From the perspective of someone who has to travel - get on a plane, take all the models for the whole week with me to fly all the events, cuz, hey, if I'm going Now let's think about that - I have to get 1 or 2 F3B models there, and 1 or 2 F3J models, and 1 or 2 Handlaunches, and a 2 Meter, and an open class TD plane ( I leave before the RES and Nostalgia). I don't have a model box that fits all those. Just getting there gets expensive, and to ship or to take as excess baggage is quite cost prohibitive. I even flew my TD plane in F3B one year just so I could compete. (And, yeah, I have to listen to that guy say, "Hey, you remember that time I kicked your ass " ) You guys who are within driving distance don't understand what we must go through to fly all the events. It's a royal pain in the ass - worth it, it must be since I keep going - but a royal pain. OK, enough whining, but how DO we increase participation in the FAI events? I know for a fact that should the decision be made to fly a 2 or 3 day F3B event, there would be more participants. Would it take a while to grow? Yes, of course. You really want it to grow? Make it a part of the Team Selections - kinda like a 2nd contest. For example - on F3B TS years, one 3 day comp at the Nats, one 3 day comp over Labor Day as is currently done. The pilots can go to either, or both, and are allowed one throwout contest. Top 3 scores = 3 team members. You wouldn't have to attend both contests, but you'd be dumb not to if you're serious about making the team. The first place pilot would be guaranteed of making the team at either comp, then the top scoring 2nd place finisher would be the 3rd pilot. This could be done for F3J on odd years as well. These are just ideas. I'm bouncing them out there. Most of you don't care about FAI, the US teams, Team Selections, etc But some of us do. We would like a part in the National Championships. More than just a token 1 day event. Thanks for the bandwidth. And now back to your regularly scheduled Sal bashing - does that guy suck or what? ;-) Daryl RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] camber = lift = drag ?
I couldn't agree with Dieter more. Drag is a drag. Always has beenalways will be. Perhaps if one flys foam only, drag is something that needs to be tolerated. Drag fun? Only if your a queen or at the local strip. Cliff Lindgren - Original Message - From: "Dieter @ ShredAir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:31 AM Subject: RE: [RCSE] camber = lift = drag ? > > >If you're like me though, you'll use the snap flaps because you're already > >using max control throws but still want a more response. Thus, the snap > >flaps will yield more control authority and then, naturally, get more drag > >(and more fun). > > > >Bill Swingle > > > Bill, > > If you're using "max control throws" and still aren't happy with > turning performance, maybe it's time to move back the CG or get a > different plane... :o) > > Since when is more drag more fun? > > Dieter > http://shredair.com > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Re: NO RETRIEVERS AT THE NATS!!!!
"David J. Schat" wrote: > > Ah! So there are twelve winches not launching models while the carts bring > the lines back. how many launches could be done in that time? My guess > is that if your doing 8 launches in 90 seconds you could probably launch at > least another 8 people or more in the time it takes to drive the lines back > and hook everyone up. You miss the point They are flying man on man. Retrievers spend a lot of time in the air and it would slow down the speed that you put the group in the air. The closer together the launch, the closer you get to man on man. Plus if you have a cross wind because the wind changed directions, you might be even slower with retrievers. Anyway, lots of rounds at the Nats are things like 10 minutes. If you have one group getting close to landing, another just launched, and a third getting ready, you start to run into problems with frequency control and mixing up the matrix. The idea of having lots of winches is to get everyone in the group in the air at the same time. It's not to see how fast you can launch people. Plus finding 6 kids who want to drive golf carts is easier than finding 12 experienced retriever operators. The best part is you get to watch folks blow up models when they don't have the drag of the retreiver and have all that power to put into the launch. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: NO RETRIEVERS AT THE NATS!!!!
Ah! So there are twelve winches not launching models while the carts bring the lines back. how many launches could be done in that time? My guess is that if your doing 8 launches in 90 seconds you could probably launch at least another 8 people or more in the time it takes to drive the lines back and hook everyone up. At 07:37 PM 12/10/01 -0500, you wrote: >- Original Message - >From: "David J. Schat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Did I read correctly earlier and the winch lines are retrieved by golf > > cart... no regular style retrievers? If this is the case this is one area > > where time can be gained if retrievers could be used (I don't know if they > > could). > >Dave, > > The simple reason for NOT using retrievers IS to speed things up and have >LESS problems. Retrieve lines can break and tangle, then the whole show is >shut down till the line gets fixed. > > I saw this setup last year at the NATS and it WORKS. Heres how it goes. > >Take 12 winches and line them up in a row, placed about 15 feet apart. >Usually launching 8 flyers in a group. The idea is to get them all in the >air in about 90 seconds so they all can fly in pretty much the same air. I >say pretty much because sometimes, at least here on the East coast, 90 >seconds can be the difference of skying out and making your time or missing >that one good thermal and ending up on the ground sooner than intended. > The first flyer launches on command from the winchmaster, who then >immediately instructs the second flyer to get ready. As soon as the first >flyer is topping out the second flyer is given the word to launch. By the >time he has tensioned the line and is starting his launch the first flyer is >off and a 'tapper' moves in to bring the first line down to the turnaround >at the far end of the field. And so it goes right down the line till all are >in the air. > There are two or three tappers, usually, for each flight group. Their sole >job is to move in right after the flyer has zoomed and pedal the line to the >ground. In this way there is never any problems with retriever line breaks >fouling up the flight line. > The 'extra' winches are in case a flyer breaks a line during launch. This >is when the winchmaster immediately instruct said flyer to move to an open >winch. All the winches are numbered and assignments for each flyer is random >and written on the score card so there is no question on the flight line >where each flyer is to be launching initially. If a flyer is given a >relaunch he comes down immediately as the winchmaster scopes out an open, >available winch. > The lines are all retrieved at the same time, after all the flyers are in >the air and the next group of flyers is getting ready to be staged in the >ready area. Usually kids of the flyers, using golf carts retrieve the lines. >While the flyers are launching the kids are waiting at the turnarounds. >After all are in the air they hook up two winch lines to each cart and pull >them back to the winches. Then back they go to wait for the next group. > They also have a good system for impounding and staging all the Tx's. This >also includes a system for turning in the score cards and Tx's after the >flight. Pick up your radios with score cards, complete with clipboards, to >ready for your flight. Then it's out to the staging area to see if everyone >is there that is suppose to be in that group. An official checks off all >flyers from his list. If so, flyers are released to walk to the launching >area. And so it goes on all day. > > This all sounds a bit complex but is really one of the best systems, if you >have the manpower and the equipment. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] NO RETRIEVERS AT THE NATS!!!!
- Original Message - From: "David J. Schat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Did I read correctly earlier and the winch lines are retrieved by golf > cart... no regular style retrievers? If this is the case this is one area > where time can be gained if retrievers could be used (I don't know if they > could). Dave, The simple reason for NOT using retrievers IS to speed things up and have LESS problems. Retrieve lines can break and tangle, then the whole show is shut down till the line gets fixed. I saw this setup last year at the NATS and it WORKS. Heres how it goes. Take 12 winches and line them up in a row, placed about 15 feet apart. Usually launching 8 flyers in a group. The idea is to get them all in the air in about 90 seconds so they all can fly in pretty much the same air. I say pretty much because sometimes, at least here on the East coast, 90 seconds can be the difference of skying out and making your time or missing that one good thermal and ending up on the ground sooner than intended. The first flyer launches on command from the winchmaster, who then immediately instructs the second flyer to get ready. As soon as the first flyer is topping out the second flyer is given the word to launch. By the time he has tensioned the line and is starting his launch the first flyer is off and a 'tapper' moves in to bring the first line down to the turnaround at the far end of the field. And so it goes right down the line till all are in the air. There are two or three tappers, usually, for each flight group. Their sole job is to move in right after the flyer has zoomed and pedal the line to the ground. In this way there is never any problems with retriever line breaks fouling up the flight line. The 'extra' winches are in case a flyer breaks a line during launch. This is when the winchmaster immediately instruct said flyer to move to an open winch. All the winches are numbered and assignments for each flyer is random and written on the score card so there is no question on the flight line where each flyer is to be launching initially. If a flyer is given a relaunch he comes down immediately as the winchmaster scopes out an open, available winch. The lines are all retrieved at the same time, after all the flyers are in the air and the next group of flyers is getting ready to be staged in the ready area. Usually kids of the flyers, using golf carts retrieve the lines. While the flyers are launching the kids are waiting at the turnarounds. After all are in the air they hook up two winch lines to each cart and pull them back to the winches. Then back they go to wait for the next group. They also have a good system for impounding and staging all the Tx's. This also includes a system for turning in the score cards and Tx's after the flight. Pick up your radios with score cards, complete with clipboards, to ready for your flight. Then it's out to the staging area to see if everyone is there that is suppose to be in that group. An official checks off all flyers from his list. If so, flyers are released to walk to the launching area. And so it goes on all day. This all sounds a bit complex but is really one of the best systems, if you have the manpower and the equipment. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] RE: make it look like a chore
That's what exacto knives are for. It takes blood. They feel sorry for you while applying a band aid :o) Dan --- Bill Swingle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>Practice lookin like it's a chore to work on airplanes. > > You know, I've tried this one. It didn't work of course. But, it's > good to > see I'm not alone. > > Bill Swingle > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Janesville, CA > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send > "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] RE: make it look like a chore
>>Practice lookin like it's a chore to work on airplanes. You know, I've tried this one. It didn't work of course. But, it's good to see I'm not alone. Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janesville, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
