[RCSE] Rare earth magnets as wing retention devices?

[John & Linda]

I have a question. Do two apposing magnets generate twice the force or
should you use a small low weight steal attraction plate.

-Original Message-
From: TJB [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 6:01 PM
To: TJB; Steve Lange; soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Rare earth magnets as wing retention devices?

I mean 2" disk
T
T&G
32 Mount View Dr
Afton, VA  22920

540 943-3356
fax   943-4178
540 943-3356
- Original Message -
From: "TJB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Steve Lange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Rare earth magnets as wing retention devices?


> You should try getting one of the 1" magnets apart.  42lb pull
>
http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=21&KeyWords=D
isc&All=True
>
> T
> T&G
> 32 Mount View Dr
> Afton, VA  22920
>
> 540 943-3356
> fax   943-4178
> 540 943-3356
> - Original Message -
> From: "Steve Lange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 4:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] Rare earth magnets as wing retention devices?
>
>
>> Zb. Michalczyk wrote:
>>
>>> rare earth magnets are not made in large sizes for some reason
>>
>> Actually, I've found a wide array of sizes available from the following
>> provider:
>>
>> http://www.wondermagnet.com/
>>
>> I got some that are 1" long by 1/2" wide and about 1/4" thick...whoa! I
>> can barely pull them apart! A few of those would probably retain the wing
>> on an ultralight!!
>>
>> I also found that Lee Valley Tool & Supply is a good source for smaller
>> sizes. Good prices too, especially when purchased in bulk.
>>
>> 
>>
>> Steve
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>
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RE: [RCSE] Rare earth magnets as wing retention devices?

[John & Linda]

I have a question. Do two apposing magnets generate twice the force or
should you use a small low weight steal attraction plate.

-Original Message-
From: TJB [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 6:01 PM
To: TJB; Steve Lange; soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Rare earth magnets as wing retention devices?

I mean 2" disk
T
T&G
32 Mount View Dr
Afton, VA  22920

540 943-3356
fax   943-4178
540 943-3356
- Original Message -
From: "TJB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Steve Lange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Rare earth magnets as wing retention devices?


> You should try getting one of the 1" magnets apart.  42lb pull
>
http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=21&KeyWords=D
isc&All=True
>
> T
> T&G
> 32 Mount View Dr
> Afton, VA  22920
>
> 540 943-3356
> fax   943-4178
> 540 943-3356
> - Original Message -
> From: "Steve Lange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 4:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] Rare earth magnets as wing retention devices?
>
>
>> Zb. Michalczyk wrote:
>>
>>> rare earth magnets are not made in large sizes for some reason
>>
>> Actually, I've found a wide array of sizes available from the following
>> provider:
>>
>> http://www.wondermagnet.com/
>>
>> I got some that are 1" long by 1/2" wide and about 1/4" thick...whoa! I
>> can barely pull them apart! A few of those would probably retain the wing
>> on an ultralight!!
>>
>> I also found that Lee Valley Tool & Supply is a good source for smaller
>> sizes. Good prices too, especially when purchased in bulk.
>>
>> 
>>
>> Steve
>> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe"
>> and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note
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>> and AOL are generally NOT in text format
>>
>
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>

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[RCSE] Carbon Pushrod Sorce

[John & Linda]

If you are just looking for carbon rod stock try this Kite supply place. The
link takes you to page # 2 of two pages. page #1 has FG rods at the top.

http://ecom.citystar.com/hang-em-high/ushop/index.cgi?ID=W85MLZ&task=show&ca
t=RODS&pgidx=21

John



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RE: [RCSE] Coverite's 21st Century Fabric

[John & Linda]

Sorry, forgot the link.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255154&highlight=laminating


I used laminating film on a small foam plane and on my 2M 2x6. It has worked
fine for me. See this link for a comment from Dean at Stealhead it is at
post # 395. If you look at post # 244 it will see the other info on it.
Below is some info from the #244 post.

This is the link.

http://www.oregonlam.com/thermrf1.htm

What I got was 1.5 mil (Gloss Thermal Polyester Laminating Film Adhesive
Side In).

Product code IS-011851x 8" x 500' 1.5 mil 1" core. $20.75 and $4.75
shipping.

They have different size (1.2 mil 1.5 mil 3 mil 5 mil and 10 mil).

They also have Matte finish. I sure wish they had colors.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:36 PM
To: Soaring@airage.com
Subject: [RCSE] Coverite's 21st Century Fabric

Does anyone know if Coverite's 21st Century Fabric covering can be used in
the same applications as Solortex.  I'm looking for something that has a
little more abrasion resistance than standard low heat shrinks or packing
tape to cover a Zagi.

Maurice


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RE: [RCSE] Coverite's 21st Century Fabric

[John & Linda]

I used laminating film on a small foam plane and on my 2M 2x6. It has worked
fine for me. See this link for a comment from Dean at Stealhead it is at
post # 395. If you look at post # 244 it will see the other info on it.
Below is some info from the #244 post.

This is the link.

http://www.oregonlam.com/thermrf1.htm

What I got was 1.5 mil (Gloss Thermal Polyester Laminating Film Adhesive
Side In).

Product code IS-011851x 8" x 500' 1.5 mil 1" core. $20.75 and $4.75
shipping.

They have different size (1.2 mil 1.5 mil 3 mil 5 mil and 10 mil).

They also have Matte finish. I sure wish they had colors.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:36 PM
To: Soaring@airage.com
Subject: [RCSE] Coverite's 21st Century Fabric

Does anyone know if Coverite's 21st Century Fabric covering can be used in
the same applications as Solortex.  I'm looking for something that has a
little more abrasion resistance than standard low heat shrinks or packing
tape to cover a Zagi.

Maurice


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"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that
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[RCSE]

[John & Linda]

FYI:

Jared of Austin, TX posted this link in a RCGROUPS thread that I follow. I
found it quite interesting. It is a paper on formation flying and on page 19
talks about elliptical formations reducing drag. It takes about 4 minutes to
load at 28kb because it is a 26 page PDF

http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Aer...urman_intro.pdf


John

Full link:

http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Aeronautics-and-Astronautics/16-886Spring200
4/29260A21-AE5C-4CDD-8FD0-994F9D9BCB3E/0/01_murman_intro.pdf






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RE: [RCSE] Re: 2M - NATS

[John & Linda]

Dana,

It is refreshing to see that some people know what to do with extra time at
the NATS ("I ran the turnarounds for years"). I can't remember having seen
most of the people complaining about the contests helping with anything,
other than criticism. I'm sure Mark G. could attest to that. I have some
thoughts on the hobby and competition that most on this group won't
understand but you may.

After seeing all the people with GPS raging about size of planes, cost of
planes, # of days of contest, and types of landings I begin to wonder about
the people that are drawn to the organized part of this hobby. I just have
to laugh. Life is enough of a competition for me. I was lucky enough to be
able to retire early. I retired early mostly because I got tired of the day
in and day out competition on the job. Tired also of the competition that
some people think is necessary on the road, to and from work. I could go on
but I think you get my point. My joy is going out and flying by myself or
maybe one or two friends. Launching when I feel like it and actually
enjoying a hobby I call thermal flying. No one has to tell me how long to
fly and where to land; I grew up in the 60's. I'm one of those "pilots" (I
use quotes because I am not very good at flying) that doesn't beat anyone
and I don't get "good" recognition for my contest flying. I don't need it. I
get something better. Satisfaction; and the kind of joy and peace some
experience canoeing, bird watching or hiking. I attend many more club
contest than I fly in. I attend because I like the people and enjoy helping
the club run the events. I don't enjoy 4 launches per contest and on a good
day maybe an hour of flying out of 5 to 7 hours on the field. I can get an
hour of flying any day of the week with a two-hour outing.

I guess that is why I only participated in 4 out of 10 club contest last
year and none of those contest were as much fun as going to the GlASS woody
contest in Michigan. Flying the Ladder event at GLASS was great with many of
my flights lasting much longer than needed because the air was good and I
didn't feel like landing. The only two events I really want to make this
year is the GLASS woody, and the fun fly at the Woodcrafters contest. My
planes aren't bigger, don't cost more, but I don't have anything to prove so
I can just enjoy flying them and go home satisfied and relaxed. Well, Dana,
I hope the other guys can work out all the details of the size, cost, days,
and landings before it consumes too much more frustration and anger. And I
hope they can go home from your contest feeling as good or better than I do,
because then they will have a hobby and not another hassle in your life.

John (LOFT Fort Wayne)

P.S.   Flame retardant pants locked on.


-Original Message-
From: Dana Flemming [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 8:35 AM
To: Bill Malvey; soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: 2M - NATS

Well, ironically, that's exactly how i started at the Nats, with that exact
airplane.  Got me involved -- between flying rounds, I ran the turnarounds
for years, got the Spirit of Soaring Award in '97 that I was pleased to
receive from Mike Stump, and share with Jim Deck, then E.D'd the whole
chebang in '02.  Sure, i always finished in that half of the results sheet
that made the top half possible, but it sure was fun!

I guess everyone's experience is a little different, and everyone certainly
is entitled to their opinions.

Dana Flemming

Bill Malvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'll again note that I don't see many newbies showing up at the field with
a
> 3M full house moldie. But I do see them come out with a 2M TD or 1.8M
speed
> 400. So let's play to the strength of that distribution.


And how many "Newbies" show up at the NATS to fly 2M with their GP Spirits??
What new guys in the hobby fly has little, if any, bearing on what
competition classes should be flown at the NATS.



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[RCSE] zip HLG'ing

[John & Linda]

Ray, I'm in also. I can't envision how much I could learn from a bunch of
guys that can work the smallest thermals and enjoy the fun that can be had
in a friendly exchange of HLG knowledge. I have one of your mini Hi-Starts
to add to the mix.

John


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RE: [RCSE] What Brown Did for Me (The Outcome)

[John & Linda]

Just to make you all re-think some of the FedEx vs. UPS questions. I just
went to the door and the UPS man in his brown shorts and shirt was walking
back to his big brown truck. The package he left was a FedEx package I had
ordered Friday. UPS is delivering home delivery items for FedEx in my area.

So ho do you blame when that package is stomped?

John

-Original Message-
From: John Derstine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 11:50 AM
To: 'Andrew E Mileski'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [RCSE] What Brown Did for Me (The Outcome)

I have learned that the box needs to be an exoskeleton, and the contents
must be not only padded, but immobilized within the container, like your
sattalite dish example.

Endless Mountain Models
http://www.scalesoaring.com
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: Andrew E Mileski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 12:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [RCSE] What Brown Did for Me (The Outcome)

John Derstine wrote:
> I recently got an inside "look" at UPS operations thanks to my son
> David. David is a college student and just got a job with UPS part
time
> evening in Harrisburg PA.

A close friend has had a tour of the main hub facility for one of
the major couriers.  He reported that it is amazing anything arrives
without damage.

Most noteworthy is the automated device that moves boxes from one
conveyor belt to the next.  Boxes come in on the main conveyor, and are
sorted onto other conveyors.  The boxes are shifted onto the other
conveyors by means of a device he described as a boot-on-a-stick.  The
boxes tumble on the the destination conveyor from the elevated main
conveyor.

Since boxes come in all shapes and sizes, this is apparently the
most efficient method.  Apparently it doesn't work well with luggage,
as it is too soft, as the required kicking force in that case is high
enough to cause significant damage.

On the same note, the differing sizes resulted in more damage from boxes
getting stuck creating a log jam on the conveyors.  I can imagine a long
boxed airplane would be the cause of many such log jams, especially
where the conveyor system curves.

Reminds me of a tech start-up I once worked for, where one person was
tasked with testing packaging after a high unit DOA.  For at least
a week he kicked and threw a shipping container up and down 24 flights
of stairs.  The container was unpacked and checked for functionality.
This was repeated a few more times before new shipping containers were
created that surrounded the item with thick foam rubber.  Loose material
like peanuts shifted and bubble wrap burst.

I've also seen a 30" self-aiming satellite dish that was shipped to
Canada from somewhere in Yugoslavia.  It took 2 techs over a day to
extricate the dish and gear from the wooden shipping container.  Every
single item was bolted to the box, and was a structural part of it.
There had to be more bolts than there are rivets in the Eiffel tower.
Quite impressive package engineering.  Zero damage of course.  I didn't
bother to ask about the shipping and handling charges on this one!

--
Andrew E. Mileski


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RE: [RCSE] Contests, Landings, etc.

[John & Linda]

You would have a set of weak links at each winch with rings attached and
loops already tied. Just slip the loop thru chute ring and over the weak
link ring and you are ready to fly. Can't take more than 5 seconds.

John

-Original Message-
From: Michael Lachowski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:57 PM
To: John & Linda
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contests, Landings, etc.

Actually, more likely is it will just slow down the contest, replacing
the weak links.  As I said, it's not the line that's the problem, it's
the motor and drum diameter.

John & Linda wrote:
> "The only way to avoid line breaks from the normal wear and tear on the
line
> across the field is to go to the 280-300 lb line."
>
> Michael,
>
> You can still use the heavy lines if you adopt a standard week link
> extension that would go between the parachute and the plane. That way
> everyone has the same test week link and if you break it you fly it. That
> would standardize the launch strength.
>
> John
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Lachowski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 7:29 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contests, Landings, etc.
>
> The correct way to limit launches is on the motor side, not on the
> line side.   Broken lines just slow down contests and make everyone
> unhappy.
>
> The only way to avoid line breaks from the normal wear and tear on the
> line across the field is to go to the 280-300 lb line.
>
> Everyone loves more power.  That's why folks want 6 volt motors.
> Unfortunately there is no strong reason for folks to move away from the
> Ford long shaft motors.  They are cheap to use to build winches.
>
>
> F3b solves the problem by limiting the winch motor resistance.  Of course,
> it complicates it by the fact that everyone brings thier own winches,
which
> is a good thing.  You only have yourself to blame on the winch problems.
> This allows lines and drum sizes to be selected to optimize the winch for
> the launching conditions.
>
>
> If you took a F3b winch and put a small diameter drum on it with heavy
line,
> you would not break line and you would not need super strong wings
> unless it was really blowing.
>
> I agree that the maximum (it's not required) line length in the AMA rule
> books is really silly for a TD contest. It's long enough where current
> models
> have to look for sink to not make the 10 minutes.
>
> Short lines increase the variability in a contest. A short launch in
really
> bad air may not be enough to escape the sink.  So you have to trade off
> between a landing contest and a luck contest if you just select  winches.
> The only true way to avoid that is to run man on man contests.
>
> This takes us back to field size limits and the fact that a lot of pilots
> don't
> have thier own winches.
>
> The only folks cheering for everyone having there own winches are the poor
> victims who carry out the winches every weekend for thier clubs and the
> ones that have to rebuild them after they get abused by everyone else.
>
> But, it all comes down to what you do as an individual. If you don't like
a
> contest, you don't have to go to it.  If you think you can run a better
> contest,
> then go and do it.
>
>
> The fact that we use winches and everyone uses the same winches is what I
> like about soaring.  I think the electric comptition guys are crazy.
> That ends up being a motor technology race.  I'm more interested in the
> airframe technology and the flying.  But then, they do have models that
will
> do a good crash and burn.  Sailplane pilots usually have to pick on power
> lines to do that.
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe"
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> .
>


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RE: [RCSE] Contests, Landings, etc.

[John & Linda]

"The only way to avoid line breaks from the normal wear and tear on the line
across the field is to go to the 280-300 lb line."

Michael,

You can still use the heavy lines if you adopt a standard week link
extension that would go between the parachute and the plane. That way
everyone has the same test week link and if you break it you fly it. That
would standardize the launch strength.

John

-Original Message-
From: Michael Lachowski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 7:29 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contests, Landings, etc.

The correct way to limit launches is on the motor side, not on the
line side.   Broken lines just slow down contests and make everyone
unhappy.

The only way to avoid line breaks from the normal wear and tear on the
line across the field is to go to the 280-300 lb line.

Everyone loves more power.  That's why folks want 6 volt motors.
Unfortunately there is no strong reason for folks to move away from the
Ford long shaft motors.  They are cheap to use to build winches.


F3b solves the problem by limiting the winch motor resistance.  Of course,
it complicates it by the fact that everyone brings thier own winches, which
is a good thing.  You only have yourself to blame on the winch problems.
This allows lines and drum sizes to be selected to optimize the winch for
the launching conditions.


If you took a F3b winch and put a small diameter drum on it with heavy line,
you would not break line and you would not need super strong wings
unless it was really blowing.

I agree that the maximum (it's not required) line length in the AMA rule
books is really silly for a TD contest. It's long enough where current
models
have to look for sink to not make the 10 minutes.

Short lines increase the variability in a contest. A short launch in really
bad air may not be enough to escape the sink.  So you have to trade off
between a landing contest and a luck contest if you just select  winches.
The only true way to avoid that is to run man on man contests.

This takes us back to field size limits and the fact that a lot of pilots
don't
have thier own winches.

The only folks cheering for everyone having there own winches are the poor
victims who carry out the winches every weekend for thier clubs and the
ones that have to rebuild them after they get abused by everyone else.

But, it all comes down to what you do as an individual. If you don't like a
contest, you don't have to go to it.  If you think you can run a better
contest,
then go and do it.


The fact that we use winches and everyone uses the same winches is what I
like about soaring.  I think the electric comptition guys are crazy.
That ends up being a motor technology race.  I'm more interested in the
airframe technology and the flying.  But then, they do have models that will
do a good crash and burn.  Sailplane pilots usually have to pick on power
lines to do that.
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RE: [RCSE] LSF Historical Event!!

[John & Linda]

Jerry, one other thing about Don, he is the kind of guy that likes it to
challenge himself and improve his flying. I saw him at the Dam doing his
8-hours. If I'm not mistaken he was flying a modified gentle lady and was
not using a lift sensor. I think Mike Remus also used a 2M ship for his
8-hour a year or two ago, but in this day and age most everyone is taking
every advantage they can, to get that task done. Don was doing it the harder
old fashion way that challenges his abundant skill. It must really feel good
to test yourself and accomplish # 3.

-Original Message-
From: Shape [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:03 PM
To: Jim Deck; RCSE
Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF Historical Event!!

Congratulations Don.
To all who dont know Don let me say he is one of the nicest guys you will
ever meet in this sport. I'm glad to call him a friend. Just last Sun he
made his third trip of the week to Muncie to help me try for my L5 cross
county. I didnt make it but he is always there to help. Everyone who knows
him knows what kind of guy he is, he's the best.
Way to go Don
Jerry Shape






- Original Message -
From: "Jim Deck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "RCSE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:46 AM
Subject: [RCSE] LSF Historical Event!!


> Wow, what a month!  It gives me great pleasure to announce that Don
> Harris has completed his THIRD time through the LSF program and is now
> officially the League of Silent Flight's 118th Level V.  And, it's the 4th
> one I've processed this month.
>  Don accomplished the journey from Level 1 to Level V in 29 months.
His
> other journeys took 60 and 50 months.  Oh, and if you're curious, the
> fastest time ever through the program was 27 months.
> Please join the officers of the LSF in congratulating Don on his very
> special achievement.
> Respectfully submitted,
> Jim Deck
>
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[RCSE] Soaring Jamboree ?

[John & Linda]

"And all the good air calling you
can make goes down the toilet while you are in line or waiting on a line fix
or mechanical issues."

Marc, I spend 6 hours waiting to fly MOM at a contest and just one hour
flying. How much good air do you think I miss in that time?

"Even the Nats, where you
cannot miss a landing and win,"

I could not have said it better. It was about landing.

"I am guessing that competitve circumstaces
are not your cup of tea?"

You got that correct. I love to fly my plane and could care less what the
guy next to me does. The only reason for me to come to contests is the
equipment, I have solved that by keeping one of the club winches. Now as
long as I have the winch at the contest I can fly when and as much as I
choose.

"Have fun flying, the stick time is great for you, someday you may come to
the fold."

Thanks for caring, but don't hold you breath. I'm having too much fun flying
my plane when I choose, and as long as I choose. I hope we can maintain the
club memberships with the MOM contests. I see more and more people that just
want to fly.

John




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