Re: [biofuel] Back again
Hi Yves, Does it work for you to find 'oil' (liquid at room temperature) here in Belgium? Seems most 'WVO' is not vegetable but animal origin (at least what I am able to get by) Do you have good resources on getting vegetable WVO? Any tips? Regards, Filip Voor de rest van het forum maar in het engels. >-- Origineel Bericht -- >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >From: Yves vd hoeven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:16:45 +0100 >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Back again > > >Als je olie koopt is dat inderdaad duur. Er staat je echter niets in de weg om gebruikte olie bij een restaurant op te halen en daarvan biodiesel te maken :) Groeten, Yves. At 13:52 1/02/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Hi all, >After 8 weeks h >spital (nothing to worry about) , I am back again and found >over 2000 e-mails on this forum. Great ! >To be honest, I didn't read them all. >Before I left for a while, I think I have asked the question, how I can use >ethanol to run a diesel engin > on. >Over here in Europe, the veg oil is getting quite expensive, because more >and more people start to know how they can drive their car on it, and of >course the oil - merchants - rise theire prices. >However, there is still enough sawdust for >ree. >Can I just mix ethanol with BD, or can I run my diesel on strait ethanol ? >What would be the effects to the environment ? I would think it burns >cleaner than BD ? > >Met vriendelijke groeten, >Pieter Koole >Netherlands. > > > >The in >ormation contained in this message (including attachments) is >confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) >only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and >notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disc >osure, >copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be >liable for direct, special, indirect or >consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this >message by a third party or in case of electronic c >mmunications as a result >of any virus being passed on. > > >- Original Message - >From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 3:23 AM >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Methoxide mix >ng > > > > Paul, > > > > For most, simple HDPE gallon jugs or HDPE 5 gallon carboys are sufficient, > > preferably translucent. Prepare the sodium methoxide 12-24 hours in >advance > > and time will do most of the dissolving for you, with perha >s an >occasional > > bit of agitation. > > > > KOH dissolves much more readily (a matter of minutes with mild agitation) > > than NaOH, but perhaps is not as available for some. > > > > Doesn't matter if the process you choose is acid/base or st >aight base. It > > serves your interests best if you make sure that adequate mixing takes > > place. Treat neither any differently from the other. > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Paul B.Schmidt" adriver.com> > > To: "biodiesel lisst serve" > > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:40 AM > > Subject: [biofuel] Methoxide mixing > > > > > > > Just wondering what other people are using to mix up the lye and > > > met >anol with. Seems that I read alot about putting it in a sealed > > > container to avoid fumes... but then how do you mix it up? Just shake > > > it around or do you need to have some sort of sealed mixed in the > > > carboy??! Does that do enough > > > > > > > The "Foolproof" method notes that "... It's nasty stuff and it's not > > > easy to mix -- and it must be thoroughly mixed before you use it, with > > > all the lye dissolved" and goes on to note that you just give it a > > > series of >swirls and then let it sit. Is that enough to thoroughly mix > > > it?! Sounds good to me if so as I was planning on having to mix up > > > several small batches in my blender and then pouring them into a > > > container together, sealing that and >then having it gravity fed through > > > a tube into the processor. So,... just pour, shake thoroughly, and > > > drain..?!. > > > > > > Also, does the base vs acid process demand more or less thorough > > > mixing? Any thoughts out there? > > > > > > - Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > > > > > Please do NOT send Un >ubscribe messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/gro >p/biofuel/ > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >iofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnyt
[biofuel] FIRST WASHED BATCH
Hi all, Got my first washed batch done. (I think) The ph level is about 5.4 I don't think that is right. What do I do? It looks great a nice golden brown kinda like honey. Very clear. I think it looks good. But then it is my first batch. What is the thoughts of the list? Rick M Brownstown, Mi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Don't Bet on Fuel Cells, Manufacturer Says
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 06:40:37 +0900, you wrote: >http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/23568/story.htm > >Don't Bet on Fuel Cells, Manufacturer Says > >SWITZERLAND: January 26, 2004 > >DAVOS, Switzerland - The producer of fuel cells that can recharge >mobile phones and portable music players told industrialists and >policymakers last week not to count on the power packs to solve the >energy crisis. > >"Don't hold your breath on fuel cells. Every 10 years they say >commercial deployment is only 10 years away. We're still not seeing >any real fuel cells that can run, say, a car," said Robert Lifton, >chief executive of Medis Technologies. He'd probably be disputed by folks at Toyota, Ballard, etc., but I wonder if he's right, by the criteria of "commercial production". How close are they, really, to putting them onsale next to regular cars, at an affordable price in a widespread sales effort? > >He was participating in several discussions on energy at the World >Economic Forum, an annual huddle of government officials, corporate >executives and special interest groups. > >Medis itself will not provide the solution either, because its Power >Pack fuel cell will only power small portable devices, and cannot be >used for bigger items such as computers or cars. > >"Our product doesn't scale," Lifton said, adding that the company's >first working prototypes would be introduced in May. The company >plans to put a $29.99 price tag on its fuel cell for portable >consumer electronics, such as handsets, MP3 players and digital >cameras. Each cartridge of fuel, which will power a cell phone for >some 12 hours, will be priced at $1.50. > >Its fuel cell should be among the very first commercial applications >of an electrochemical process that was first discovered in the >nineteenth century. A fuel cell converts the chemical energy of a >fuel and oxidant to electrical energy. > >RESEARCH PROGRAM > >In the United States, fuel cells, and the hydrogen that is used in >many models as a fuel, is seen as a solution to keep engines running, >even when the world runs out of fossil fuels later this century. >President Bush supported a $1.3 billion research program to develop >such fuel cells. > >Many Japanese companies are also working on fuel cells, with Toshiba >claiming a prototype that powers a laptop. NEC has boasted about a >record level of milliwatts it can generate per square centimeter of >reaction surface. Franco-Italian chip maker STMicroelectronics is >using chip-making technology to increase energy generation. > >Fuel cells are better for the environment than ordinary batteries, >which contain heavy metals. Fuel cells only produce electricity, >water, and in some cases heat. But Lifton said hydrogen fuel cells >still had to overcome essential problems, such as excess heat and >water generation. > >Governments should focus on energy preservation, and not hope that >fuel cell technology will catch up with energy needs. He and others >also pointed out that fuel cells could only be a solution to the >upcoming energy crisis if the fuel, such as hydrogen, is generated >with renewable energy sources. > >Hydrogen can either be generated by wind or solar energy, or by using >fossil fuels such as gas. > >Companies like Shell Renewables, a unit of Royal Dutch, is talking to >governments to emphasize that fuel cell technology should be combined >with renewable energy. > >Solar cells and wind mills generate only a fraction of the world's >energy needs at the moment, less than one percent. > >Long-term scenario planning by Shell forecasts that in 30 to 40 years >renewable energy will generate over one-third of all global energy >requirements. > >Story by Lucas van Grinsven > >REUTERS NEWS SERVICE > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Yahoo! Gr
Re: [biofuel] Back again
Weet ik, maar het wordt er wel steeds lastiger op, of kun jij nog volop gratis krijgen ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: "Yves vd hoeven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Back again > Als je olie koopt is dat inderdaad duur. Er staat je echter niets in de weg > om gebruikte olie bij een restaurant op te halen en daarvan biodiesel te > maken :) > > Groeten, > Yves. > > > > At 13:52 1/02/2004 +0100, you wrote: > >Hi all, > >After 8 weeks hospital (nothing to worry about) , I am back again and found > >over 2000 e-mails on this forum. Great ! > >To be honest, I didn't read them all. > >Before I left for a while, I think I have asked the question, how I can use > >ethanol to run a diesel engine on. > >Over here in Europe, the veg oil is getting quite expensive, because more > >and more people start to know how they can drive their car on it, and of > >course the oil - merchants - rise theire prices. > >However, there is still enough sawdust for free. > >Can I just mix ethanol with BD, or can I run my diesel on strait ethanol ? > >What would be the effects to the environment ? I would think it burns > >cleaner than BD ? > > > >Met vriendelijke groeten, > >Pieter Koole > >Netherlands. > > > > > > > >The information contained in this message (including attachments) is > >confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) > >only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and > >notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, > >copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be > >liable for direct, special, indirect or > >consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this > >message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result > >of any virus being passed on. > > > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 3:23 AM > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Methoxide mixing > > > > > > > Paul, > > > > > > For most, simple HDPE gallon jugs or HDPE 5 gallon carboys are sufficient, > > > preferably translucent. Prepare the sodium methoxide 12-24 hours in > >advance > > > and time will do most of the dissolving for you, with perhaps an > >occasional > > > bit of agitation. > > > > > > KOH dissolves much more readily (a matter of minutes with mild agitation) > > > than NaOH, but perhaps is not as available for some. > > > > > > Doesn't matter if the process you choose is acid/base or straight base. It > > > serves your interests best if you make sure that adequate mixing takes > > > place. Treat neither any differently from the other. > > > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Paul B.Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "biodiesel lisst serve" > > > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:40 AM > > > Subject: [biofuel] Methoxide mixing > > > > > > > > > > Just wondering what other people are using to mix up the lye and > > > > methanol with. Seems that I read alot about putting it in a sealed > > > > container to avoid fumes... but then how do you mix it up? Just shake > > > > it around or do you need to have some sort of sealed mixed in the > > > > carboy??! Does that do enough? > > > > > > > > The "Foolproof" method notes that "... It's nasty stuff and it's not > > > > easy to mix -- and it must be thoroughly mixed before you use it, with > > > > all the lye dissolved" and goes on to note that you just give it a > > > > series of swirls and then let it sit. Is that enough to thoroughly mix > > > > it?! Sounds good to me if so as I was planning on having to mix up > > > > several small batches in my blender and then pouring them into a > > > > container together, sealing that and then having it gravity fed through > > > > a tube into the processor. So,... just pour, shake thoroughly, and > > > > drain..?!. > > > > > > > > Also, does the base vs acid process demand more or less thorough > > > > mixing? Any thoughts out there? > > > > > > > > - Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > > To unsubscribe, send
Re: [biofuel] Back again
Als je olie koopt is dat inderdaad duur. Er staat je echter niets in de weg om gebruikte olie bij een restaurant op te halen en daarvan biodiesel te maken :) Groeten, Yves. At 13:52 1/02/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Hi all, >After 8 weeks hospital (nothing to worry about) , I am back again and found >over 2000 e-mails on this forum. Great ! >To be honest, I didn't read them all. >Before I left for a while, I think I have asked the question, how I can use >ethanol to run a diesel engine on. >Over here in Europe, the veg oil is getting quite expensive, because more >and more people start to know how they can drive their car on it, and of >course the oil - merchants - rise theire prices. >However, there is still enough sawdust for free. >Can I just mix ethanol with BD, or can I run my diesel on strait ethanol ? >What would be the effects to the environment ? I would think it burns >cleaner than BD ? > >Met vriendelijke groeten, >Pieter Koole >Netherlands. > > > >The information contained in this message (including attachments) is >confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) >only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and >notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, >copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be >liable for direct, special, indirect or >consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this >message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result >of any virus being passed on. > > >- Original Message - >From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 3:23 AM >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Methoxide mixing > > > > Paul, > > > > For most, simple HDPE gallon jugs or HDPE 5 gallon carboys are sufficient, > > preferably translucent. Prepare the sodium methoxide 12-24 hours in >advance > > and time will do most of the dissolving for you, with perhaps an >occasional > > bit of agitation. > > > > KOH dissolves much more readily (a matter of minutes with mild agitation) > > than NaOH, but perhaps is not as available for some. > > > > Doesn't matter if the process you choose is acid/base or straight base. It > > serves your interests best if you make sure that adequate mixing takes > > place. Treat neither any differently from the other. > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Paul B.Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "biodiesel lisst serve" > > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:40 AM > > Subject: [biofuel] Methoxide mixing > > > > > > > Just wondering what other people are using to mix up the lye and > > > methanol with. Seems that I read alot about putting it in a sealed > > > container to avoid fumes... but then how do you mix it up? Just shake > > > it around or do you need to have some sort of sealed mixed in the > > > carboy??! Does that do enough? > > > > > > The "Foolproof" method notes that "... It's nasty stuff and it's not > > > easy to mix -- and it must be thoroughly mixed before you use it, with > > > all the lye dissolved" and goes on to note that you just give it a > > > series of swirls and then let it sit. Is that enough to thoroughly mix > > > it?! Sounds good to me if so as I was planning on having to mix up > > > several small batches in my blender and then pouring them into a > > > container together, sealing that and then having it gravity fed through > > > a tube into the processor. So,... just pour, shake thoroughly, and > > > drain..?!. > > > > > > Also, does the base vs acid process demand more or less thorough > > > mixing? Any thoughts out there? > > > > > > - Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biof
Re: [biofuel] Methoxide mixing
Paul, Not much inventing or making it up as you go needed. The practice of making biodiesel has been on the books for decades. Seems that most of the problems come when people try to reinvent the wheel. Nothing wrong with experimenting, but there are some "relatively" hard and fast rules to making biodiesel the right way. As for mixing? Mix until the catalyst is visibly dissolved. No need to go further. If you're mixing in a non-transparent container it will be up to you to determine when all the catalyst has dissolved. Pick your own method, but make sure you're right. Any solid catalyst that goes into the oil will immediately get "soaped over," isolated from the reaction and in turn increase the odds of an incomplete reaction. As for adding water to the process? That's self defeating. All you'll get is less yield of biodiesel, more soap and probably more headache than you bargained for. About the only time such foolishness has any practical value is if an aqueous solution of catalyst is all that is available and it's your last chance to get your shipwrecked self off a desert island. Cycle time per batch? Acid/base - 4 days if you push the wash stages and apply heat to dry the fuel. Straight base - 2 days if you push the wash stages and apply heat to dry the fuel. Realistically, efficiently and economically? A 55 gallon batch in 4-6 days. That's still adding heat to dry the fuel, either via warm, dehumidified air or directly. Pushing the wash stages will inevitably leave more fuel in the waste water and more contaminants in the micro-droplets of water that never completely settle out between washes. Shouldn't be done unless absolutely necessary, such as in time for a press opportunity, event, etc. Of course, you can always choose to not wash if you really don't care about your engine. That concept tends to stir up a lot of hornets everytime it's brought up. Again, no different than pushing the wash stages, it shouldn't be done unless absolutely necessary, either to catch the last high tide before the volcano blows or to show off and feed your ego at a hastily scheduled press opp. As for quick and effective guestimates as to product quality on a dimestore budget? Frog in a Blender. If the fuel separates immediately and cleanly you've got biodiesel. If not, you've got an incomplete reaction. Viscosity is essentially a non-starter as an indicator of a complete reaction. As for Sunday, it's as super as any other. Don't see the sense of bowling though. Pitiful excuse to ruin a perfectly good hardwood floor. And chips and wings? We don't eat anything with a face on it around here anymore. Todd Swearingen Commie, pinko, socialist at large - Original Message - From: "Paul B.Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 3:28 PM Subject: [biofuel] Methoxide mixing > Todd, > > Thanks for the reply. Always appreciate some insight into the process > as it seems we're all on the inside of a new movement and we're sort of > making it up as we experiment and learn more. Just very exciting stuff > in so many different economic, environmental, political and social ways. > > How much more, percent wise, do you think you get disolved by waiting > past the first mixing? Do you think a thorough mechanical mixing would > give a simialr result? Anyway you can tell how much is dissolved > besides looking at the mix? Since the lye in the titration is disolved > into a distilled water solution, could you dissolve it this way again, > in a much stonger solution, and use that or would the added water throw > things off to much and just help make more gloppy soap? > > Also, you note you mix, give it a shake and then wait about 12-24 hours > till you use it. As far as the whole idea of waiting goes, there is the > mini batch mixing and watchign time, there is also the time needed to > wait to let the initial big batch process settle fully (1-2 days), then > the washing/ rewashing/ drying waiting periods. About how long do you > take from the moment you pour gallon/ litre one into your processor till > you have a finished, clean product? I'm fine waiting and getting a good > output, but don't want to fool myself into thinking it can be done in > about 2 days or so. A week? 4 days? 2 weeks? > > Last one for ya.. if you can take any more! :) My friends ask, " how > do you know it's good stuff when you are done?" At this point can only > reply that since I haven't sent a batch into a lab to test for ASTM > standards that it appears about all a person can do is to essentially > check the viscosity, see if the oil will mix quickly with a bit of > water in a beaker, and if the color is amber but crystal clear. Am I > missing any other sort of home brew test you can do besides pouring it > into an engine to see if it doesn't blow everyting up? I read your > article on JTF, and it pretty much says if you followed the plans > carefully, you're all set. Any other ideas? > > Thanks i
[biofuel] Ethyl's Back...
I made my first real batch with the new shipment of fuel-grade ethanol from Parallel Products (98% 200-pf recycled fermentation ethanol + 2% gasoline denaturant). 25l oil (1/3 WVO, 2/3 flush oil, sesame I think, overall titr, 0.7 ml NaOH), 6l ethanol, 1l methanol, 360 g. KOH. Separation 1/2 hour after end of 1 hour periodic agitation. Hallelujah!.-K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
