Re: [OSM-talk] Largest PR campaign from G* in Germany with map mashup

[Manfred A. Reiter]

Yes, you can do it for a monopolist er a free and open community. ;-)

Lebt us  think about how we can re-use  it. ;-)

MR - mobile - sorry for typos and brevity
Am 03.12.2013 08:20 schrieb "Stefan Keller" :

> Hi,
>
> Theses days a 90 seconds clip about "Lars and Isa: Two against the flood"
> is being broadcasted.
> It's a story about two helpers who mashed up a map of flood hotspots that
> coordinated volunteers.
> It's the first story out of five (selected from 1'100) during the largest
> PR campaign from G* in Germany.
>
> Yours, S.
>
> [1]
> http://www.mz-web.de/halle-saalekreis/hochwasser-in-halle-google-macht-werbung-mit-fluthelfern,20640778,24778858.html
>
>
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[OSM-talk] Largest PR campaign from G* in Germany with map mashup

[Stefan Keller]

Hi,

Theses days a 90 seconds clip about "Lars and Isa: Two against the flood"
is being broadcasted.
It's a story about two helpers who mashed up a map of flood hotspots that
coordinated volunteers.
It's the first story out of five (selected from 1'100) during the largest
PR campaign from G* in Germany.

Yours, S.

[1]
http://www.mz-web.de/halle-saalekreis/hochwasser-in-halle-google-macht-werbung-mit-fluthelfern,20640778,24778858.html
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Re: [OSM-talk] Element on OSM which don't exist in real life

[Greg Troxel]

Richard Welty  writes:

> there is some bad data in the GNIS import. when i encounter obviously
> bogus objects from the GNIS import, i just delete them. just the other
> day i deleted a GNIS object which suggested someone had a heliport in
> their back yard a little south of Albany NY. i didn't see a heliport.

There is some bad data.  But old place names are usually actually ok (if
misplaced a bit).  Foo Station or Foo Depot is often where the railroad
(or some highway in the 1800s) came close to a town, and it may still be
a name locals know even if currently no one lives there.  For an
unpopulated place name:

  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Locality

It's worth remembering that in the US the GNIS (well, the Board of
Geographic Names) is the definition of place names, at least for Federal
purposes.  So it being in GNIS is a measure of reality, because they are
the naming authority.

For heliports, I agree with Richard - I've seen a fair number of
questionable ones.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Element on OSM which don't exist in real life

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2013/12/3 Greg Troxel 

> There are tags for place names
> that are not population centers.
>


+1, keep the name and set place to something more reasonable.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Element on OSM which don't exist in real life

[Greg Troxel]

Frederik Ramm  writes:

> Hi> Same but different for the "Kettleman Station" node, this has been
> imported 5 years ago from a GNIS data set and deserves no more respect
> than the rest - if there's nobody living there then it's likely not a
> hamlet.

It's true that it's not hamlet.  But GNIS defines what names mean
(legally, in the US), and there are 'place names' that refer to
locations, even if those places have no people now.   Unfortunately the
GNIS import blurred this and hamlet.  There are tags for place names
that are not population centers.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Element on OSM which don't exist in real life

[Craig Wallace]

On 2013-12-02 19:12, Sebastian Arcus wrote:

First off, I hope this is the right place to ask mapping questions -
otherwise could you suggest the best mailing list please.

I am doing some mapping along the Interstate 5 in California based on my
own notes and data collected. What I keep on finding is elements on OSM
which don't seem to exist in reality. For example:


Some useful guides on the wiki about fixing TIGER and GNIS:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_fixup
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/USGS_GNIS

Craig

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Re: [OSM-talk] Element on OSM which don't exist in real life

[Clifford Snow]

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Sebastian Arcus wrote:

> 2. All across these fields: http://osm.org/go/TY2PBU33  there are
> numerous roads - some of them even with names and/or codes. On satellite
> view they appear to be nothing more than dirt tracks at best - some of them
> not even that. When I was there a month ago, those were just empty barren
> hills. I don't quite understand why the maze of highways giving the
> impression of some densely populated area.
>

In Washington State forested area we have lots of forest service roads.
They often don't show up on satellite images with any kind of growth. They
were imported as highway=residential. I've been adding new forest service
roads as tracks when they are just a pair of tire tracks.

We should really make an effort to remove the highway=residential from the
forest service roads IMHO. I'd hate to see someone get stuck or lost
thinking that a forest service road would make a good short cut.


-- 
Clifford

OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [OSM-talk] proprietary and unrelated images on the about page

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2013/12/2 Christoph Hormann 

>
> TopOSM:
>
> OpenSeaMap:
>
> OSM2World:
>
> The Heat maps from:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SotM_2011_session:_Insert_Coin_To_Play
>
> The normal map in regions with non-latin script (demonstrating the
> international and multilingual character of the project):
>
> or the Multilingual map (http://mlm.jochentopf.com/)


+1

Opencyclemap.org
opencyclemap.org/?zoom=11&lat=40.7322&lon=-73.95491&layers=B000

ÖPNV-Karte
http://öpnvkarte.de/?zoom=13&lat=51.50521&lon=-0.14401&layers=TBTTT

and many more individual mapstyles including work from stamen, mapbox,
non-mapnik renderings, ...


If it shall be maps. Richard's idea of showing people is very appealing.
E.g. it could be the group photo of the last sotm like this:
http://2013.stateofthemap.org/files/8113/7871/7695/sotmGroupB1170x350.jpg

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Element on OSM which don't exist in real life

[Sebastian Arcus]

On 02/12/13 20:26, Richard Welty wrote:

Thank Frederik. I'm actually working in JOSM, and I've spotted those
import tags - but as I still feel like a newbie when it comes to all
things OSM, I thought I'd check with the community so that I don't do
something silly.

Welcome to TIGER and GNIS!

what Fredrick said is true; i'm going to add some US specific info.

there is some bad data in the GNIS import. when i encounter obviously
bogus objects from the GNIS import, i just delete them. just the other
day i deleted a GNIS object which suggested someone had a heliport in
their back yard a little south of Albany NY. i didn't see a heliport.

as for non-existent roads in TIGER, it happens. there are various
reasons for it, but if you're looking at unreviewed TIGER (look for
a tiger:review=no tag) and you can't find the matching real world
entities, you are fully justified in deleting them. if you do verify
a road exists, then also verify its topology (is it hooked up the way
the map shows), its name (from the road signs) and its location (bing
imagery is good for this, as are personally collected GPS tracks).
if those check out you are justified in removing the tiger:reviewed
tag (if you are fastidious, you can change it to yes, but most of us
just delete it. fewer mouse clicks that way.)

as for the reasons - TIGER data quality varies quite widely, seemingly
from county to county. it is getting better - if you compare the 2005
data which is what we imported to 2013 data you can see the improvement.
but there are cases where obviously someone sketched out a map then
freehanded it into the database, and there are cases where a developer
got their roads into the database before they failed to finance the
development project.

if you look at the image dropdown, you will see a tiger 2012 underlayment.
you can use this to compare what's in OSM to the 2012 data set.

so don't be afraid to fix it. there is bad data in TIGER. mistakes
happen.

richard


Thanks Richard. Very helpful explanation and pointers.

Sebastian


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Re: [OSM-talk] Element on OSM which don't exist in real life

[Richard Welty]

> Thank Frederik. I'm actually working in JOSM, and I've spotted those 
> import tags - but as I still feel like a newbie when it comes to all 
> things OSM, I thought I'd check with the community so that I don't do 
> something silly.

Welcome to TIGER and GNIS!

what Fredrick said is true; i'm going to add some US specific info.

there is some bad data in the GNIS import. when i encounter obviously
bogus objects from the GNIS import, i just delete them. just the other
day i deleted a GNIS object which suggested someone had a heliport in
their back yard a little south of Albany NY. i didn't see a heliport.

as for non-existent roads in TIGER, it happens. there are various
reasons for it, but if you're looking at unreviewed TIGER (look for
a tiger:review=no tag) and you can't find the matching real world
entities, you are fully justified in deleting them. if you do verify
a road exists, then also verify its topology (is it hooked up the way
the map shows), its name (from the road signs) and its location (bing
imagery is good for this, as are personally collected GPS tracks).
if those check out you are justified in removing the tiger:reviewed
tag (if you are fastidious, you can change it to yes, but most of us
just delete it. fewer mouse clicks that way.)

as for the reasons - TIGER data quality varies quite widely, seemingly
from county to county. it is getting better - if you compare the 2005
data which is what we imported to 2013 data you can see the improvement.
but there are cases where obviously someone sketched out a map then
freehanded it into the database, and there are cases where a developer
got their roads into the database before they failed to finance the
development project.

if you look at the image dropdown, you will see a tiger 2012 underlayment.
you can use this to compare what's in OSM to the 2012 data set.

so don't be afraid to fix it. there is bad data in TIGER. mistakes
happen.

richard




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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[Simon Poole]

  
  

Go to "Mon profil", then "Mes options" and select "Supprimer l'image
actuelle", then save with "Enregistrer les modifications"

Am 02.12.2013 16:00, schrieb JB:


  Le 30.11.2013 20:24, SomeoneElse a écrit :
  1) On the main
osm.org site, the extra space taken up by the bar at the top and
the huge "welcome" area at the left distracts from the map in a
way that the rectangular left-hand bar didn't - it's easier to
mentally exclude a left-hand bar and concentrate on the
remaining rectangle in a way that it isn't possible to exclude
the welcome box and concentrate on the remaining L-shaped 3/4 of
the screen. 
  I've been using osm.org without being connected to try this for a few days. Try yourself if you don't believe it, the map is simply unusable.
Besides, now that I'm connected, but do not have a picture to illustrate myself in my profile, where/how do I click on « modify »?
  
  JB.


  
  
  
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Re: [OSM-talk] Element on OSM which don't exist in real life

[Sebastian Arcus]

On 02/12/13 19:32, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

On 02.12.2013 20:12, Sebastian Arcus wrote:

First off, I hope this is the right place to ask mapping questions -
otherwise could you suggest the best mailing list please.

There's also a talk-us list if you have questions specific to the US of
A. But talk is just fine. We can use a diversion.


I am doing some mapping along the Interstate 5 in California based on my
own notes and data collected. What I keep on finding is elements on OSM
which don't seem to exist in reality. For example:

Your editor might allow you to inspect an object's author(s) and
history, or if not, you can go to the web site, zoom in, and activate
the data layer. With that I could see that the roads you mention have
been imported from the TIGER data set 6 years ago and not touched since.
This means that anything you gather from an aerial image or even
personal survey surely trumps that data!

Had the research turned up that a mapper edited these roads just weeks
or months ago, potentially even indicating they did a survey, then it
would be in order to contact that person and discuss the issue. But not
with a 6 year old data import.

Same but different for the "Kettleman Station" node, this has been
imported 5 years ago from a GNIS data set and deserves no more respect
than the rest - if there's nobody living there then it's likely not a
hamlet.
Thank Frederik. I'm actually working in JOSM, and I've spotted those 
import tags - but as I still feel like a newbie when it comes to all 
things OSM, I thought I'd check with the community so that I don't do 
something silly.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Element on OSM which don't exist in real life

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 02.12.2013 20:12, Sebastian Arcus wrote:
> First off, I hope this is the right place to ask mapping questions -
> otherwise could you suggest the best mailing list please.

There's also a talk-us list if you have questions specific to the US of
A. But talk is just fine. We can use a diversion.

> I am doing some mapping along the Interstate 5 in California based on my
> own notes and data collected. What I keep on finding is elements on OSM
> which don't seem to exist in reality. For example:

Your editor might allow you to inspect an object's author(s) and
history, or if not, you can go to the web site, zoom in, and activate
the data layer. With that I could see that the roads you mention have
been imported from the TIGER data set 6 years ago and not touched since.
This means that anything you gather from an aerial image or even
personal survey surely trumps that data!

Had the research turned up that a mapper edited these roads just weeks
or months ago, potentially even indicating they did a survey, then it
would be in order to contact that person and discuss the issue. But not
with a 6 year old data import.

Same but different for the "Kettleman Station" node, this has been
imported 5 years ago from a GNIS data set and deserves no more respect
than the rest - if there's nobody living there then it's likely not a
hamlet.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[OSM-talk] Element on OSM which don't exist in real life

[Sebastian Arcus]

First off, I hope this is the right place to ask mapping questions - 
otherwise could you suggest the best mailing list please.


I am doing some mapping along the Interstate 5 in California based on my 
own notes and data collected. What I keep on finding is elements on OSM 
which don't seem to exist in reality. For example:


1. Kettleman Station: http://osm.org/go/TY2PBnA1M?node=150964893 This 
appears to be some sort of industrial installation - why would it be 
marked as a hamlet? Both the Bing satellite imagery and a peak at Google 
Streeview confirm that there are no residences in the area.


2. All across these fields: http://osm.org/go/TY2PBU33  there are 
numerous roads - some of them even with names and/or codes. On satellite 
view they appear to be nothing more than dirt tracks at best - some of 
them not even that. When I was there a month ago, those were just empty 
barren hills. I don't quite understand why the maze of highways giving 
the impression of some densely populated area.


Along the I5 there seem to be numerous examples like the above. Is there 
some element of local knowledge that escapes me - and those features 
actually exist?



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Re: [OSM-talk] proprietary and unrelated images on the about page

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 02 December 2013, Kathleen Danielson wrote:
>
> Can you provide some compelling examples of images that you'd like to
> see us using instead?

TopOSM:

http://toposm.ahlzen.com/
(various examples on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TopOSM)

OpenSeaMap:

http://map.openseamap.org/?zoom=14&lat=56.04136&lon=12.63945&layers=BFTFFFTFFFT0

OSM2World:

http://maps.osm2world.org/?h=128&view=W&zoom=16&lat=48.57188&lon=13.46038&layers=B0

The Heat maps from:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SotM_2011_session:_Insert_Coin_To_Play

The normal map in regions with non-latin script (demonstrating the 
international and multilingual character of the project):

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/36.8092/10.1738
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/32.0951/34.7996
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/35.7375/51.5014
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/39.9178/116.3833

or the Multilingual map (http://mlm.jochentopf.com/)

I know combining such to an image with harmonic colors is not easy but 
for this purpose it would be perfectly acceptable to tweak the colors 
of the various maps for an appealing collage.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] proprietary and unrelated images on the about page

[Richard Weait]

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Kathleen Danielson
 wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> Can you provide some compelling examples of images that you'd like to see us
> using instead?

It isn't easy is it?  No rendering will satisfy everyone, and even a
collection of renderings will miss out on representing OpenStreetMap
in all of our glory.

I won't get into offering draft images, that isn't my thing.  I'll
leave that to the pixel pros.  But here are some thoughts:

- do we need an image?  An heretical idea, I know.  I'm not mocking
those who love pictures.  But how important is it to have a mosaic of
renderings on the about page?

- rather than a rendering or mosaic of renderings, how about a
more-human image?  Something with people in it? Yes, "model releases",
and a list of other concerns.  Back in the dawn of time, CloudMade had
a banner image with a person holding a GPS, suggesting that a human
doing a site survey is important.  Seems that image is gone now?

- what about an image that suggests a solution that OpenStreetMap
provides or enables?  Ideally, an image that demonstrates that Open
Data and Local Geo-genius can improve your day or save your life.
Open Data allows you to serve an audience that might not be otherwise
commercially viable to serve. I'll leave the composition of that image
as an exercise for the reader.

So, yeah.  Not easy.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Nearby Users

[Richard Weait]

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Mikel Maron  wrote:
> Thanks Frederik for kicking this off, good discussion of a *potentially* v
> useful feature.

...

> What's the best way to set up this kind of async stats processing, and
> integrate into the rails app?

I've done a quantity of this async mapper stats compilation and
comparison.  The results were really good and lead to things like a
vandal detector and the mapper baseball cards that I toyed with.
Based on my experience I think the best advice I can offer is "don't
use shell scripts".  Hey, they worked, for some value of worked.
Kinda.

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Re: [OSM-talk] proprietary and unrelated images on the about page

[Kathleen Danielson]

Hi Martin,

Can you provide some compelling examples of images that you'd like to see
us using instead?


On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:

>
> 2013/12/2 Pieren 
>
>> For sure, contour lines are not part of OSM but it makes nice images.
>> It's all about marketing ;-)
>>
>
>
> While I agree that the image is visually appealing, I still dispute that
> it is suitable for representing OSM on our main "about" page. We do have
> lots of lots of OSM-related images and different maps based on OSM to
> choose 4 images from (e.g. the images of the week), we really shouldn't use
> proprietary imagery from Mapquest or unrelated srtm data and NASA imagery
> for this scope.
>
> cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2013/12/2 Barry Hunter 

> When click Export :) Under the box for selecting a BBOX for the export.



I apologize, this is really nice.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[SomeoneElse]

  
  
JB wrote:


  Besides, now that I'm connected, but do not have a picture to illustrate myself in my profile, where/how do I click on « modify »?
  
  


It certainly doesn't look like that for me.  Perhaps you need to see
if someone's already logged a trac ticket / github issue this this
problem on your language, browser and OS?

Cheers,

Andy

  

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[JB]

Le 30.11.2013 20:24, SomeoneElse a écrit :
1) On the main osm.org site, the extra space taken up by the bar at the top and the huge "welcome" area at the left distracts from the map in a way that the rectangular left-hand bar didn't - it's easier to mentally exclude a left-hand bar and concentrate on the remaining rectangle in a way that it isn't possible to exclude the welcome box and concentrate on the remaining L-shaped 3/4 of the screen. 
I've been using osm.org without being connected to try this for a few days. Try yourself if you don't believe it, the map is simply unusable.Besides, now that I'm connected, but do not have a picture to illustrate myself in my profile, where/how do I click on « modify »?

JB.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Nearby Users

[Mikel Maron]

Thanks Frederik for kicking this off, good discussion of a *potentially* v 
useful feature.

No matter how nearby users presentation is tweaked and filtered, I reckon we 
need consider how to architect this efficiently. To calculate "activity", by 
changesets or sign up date or any other parameters, using rails models or 
directly in SQL will be even slower than currently. I'm not familiar with 
exactly how Pascal does his calculations, but I'm guessing it's based on planet 
diffs and API queries when needed, with results stored. I'd love to see 
Pascal's system integrated into OSM.org, on both the friends and nearby users 
views (our "news feed"), and on user profile pages.

What's the best way to set up this kind of async stats processing, and 
integrate into the rails app?

-Mikel
 
* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron



On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 5:48 AM, Pieren  wrote:
 
For performance issues, it is probably easier and faster to sort by
>last edit. Profile pages are already slow to open.
>
>On the other hand, the map could change the marker colour based on the
>same attribut, either with a gray scale from black to almost
>transparent or from 'red' or 'bright' for the most recent to 'gloomy'
>or 'dark' for the oldest ones.
>
>My 2 cents,
>Pieren
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Maarten Deen]

On 2013-12-02 14:57, Lester Caine wrote:

Maarten Deen wrote:

On 2013-12-02 14:38, Barry Hunter wrote:

On 2 December 2013 13:17, Lester Caine wrote:

what is 'export' intended to do?


It gives option to select an area, then download a osm XML file.
Exports the map as data. If the area is big, gives direct links to
various bulk options.


There was an option to download to PDF and PNG, which was nice so you 
could make

a printed map immediately. Why has that been removed?


That is part of 'Share' now Maarten ...
This is the sort of help file that is missing :(


Which then prompts me to ask why this is different from export? And 
since it's very hidden (no, these pictograms are not intuitive to me), 
it's not very public.


Maarten


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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Barry Hunter]

>
> Yes, they are all in the wiki, of course, but where did you find that link
> to the Download page on the main page?

When click Export :) Under the box for selecting a BBOX for the export.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Ed Loach]

> There was an option to download to PDF and PNG, which was nice so
> you
> could make a printed map immediately. Why has that been
> removed?

It moved to the "Share" button when that was added in early August.

Ed


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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2013/12/2 Barry Hunter 

> On 2 December 2013 13:51, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
> >
> > offering a list of
> > services where you can actually get more and all data (i.e.
> planet.osm.org,
>
> already listed there
>
> > geofabrik,
>
> already there
>
> > metroextracts,
>
> already there
>
> > coastlines, overpass, torrent, etc. (if those are
> > fine with being mentioned prominently there)).
>
> The last link is to
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Download
>
> so they can all be listed there.
>


Yes, they are all in the wiki, of course, but where did you find that link
to the Download page on the main page? When I open the export tab there is
no hint at all that there might be better ways to get the desired data.
Maybe the whole "export" tab could become "download" or "data" instead?

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] New layout

[Pieren]

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Chris Hill  wrote:
> I've tried to find the link to blogs.openstreetmap.org on the new layout and
> couldn't find it.

+1

It was already mentionned but I will repeat here that moving the
"Documentation/wiki" so far behind the scenes is very sad. Now, you
have to click on 'Help' then ignore the first link to the 'welcome'
page leading you to the online editor, then ignore the second link to
help.openstreetmap.org, a tool mainly in English where you might wait
days until you get the right answer, to finally end up in the main OSM
documentation with the last link...
Where the experience of newcomers in OSM should be "okay, make some
fun with a first try on the online editor", "make more changes until
you need some answers", -->"RTFM"<-- (the wiki), "ask the question if
you don't find it in the wiki". Here is another evidence that web
designers don't like wikipedia and wikis in general. Surely, the wiki
is far from perfect but hiding the documentation will not decrease
newcomers frustrations.

Pieren

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[Barry Hunter]

On 2 December 2013 13:54, Lester Caine  wrote:
> Barry Hunter wrote:
>>>
>>> >The new setup seems to be saying 'if you are not here to map go away!'
>>> > If
>>> >this is really the case then perhaps we need a NEW site for those of us
>>> > who
>>> >contribute data with a view to actually using it live?
>>
>> http://open.mapquest.co.uk/
>>
>> ? That is a site for "end users" of OSM created maps.
>>
>> In many ways OSM is a data provider, it doesnt have the resources to
>> create website for end users (as such).
>
>
> Now I've now found the 'html' option on the OSM map, and along with the link
> and short link these target the same map. Simply replacing the URL with the
> mapquest one does not provide a working link,

Why should it, they are different sites. MapQuest has their own embed option.

> and in any case the rendering
> of roads in this area is simply wrong ...

Good excuse to badger MapQuest to update their rendering!

If you direct more users at MapQuest, they will have more incentive to
update it :)

>
> If a service is not going to be provided then it should not be prominent on
> the front page?

The feature is to embed the map as seen on the OSM page. Which it does.

You seem to be wanting to use it for a different purpose.


> In any case, the embeded map is provided via OSM and so
> maintaining a compatible rendering in the follow on link is important,

You seem to be giving mixed signals what you expect this 'follow on
link' to be 'for'.

Is it for users to find out more about OSM? For users wanting to get
directions to the location shown on the map?

They are very different use cases.


> switching to one with a different style on another site seems wrong? If we
> were providing these pages ourselves then we would still be using the OSM
> tile server?

As long as adear to the usage Policy, then you could
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy


>  I got around 50% of the way through rendering my own set -
> after 7 days - but the tiles were already well out of date :(

Nobody said it would be easy.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Barry Hunter]

On 2 December 2013 13:51, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
>
> offering a list of
> services where you can actually get more and all data (i.e. planet.osm.org,

already listed there

> geofabrik,

already there

> metroextracts,

already there

> coastlines, overpass, torrent, etc. (if those are
> fine with being mentioned prominently there)).

The last link is to
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Download

so they can all be listed there.


>
> Also it was said that our main API was for editing purposes only, how does
> that relate to an export function like this?

Its intended for Editing. But doesnt meant it can't be used (in a
limited capacity) for downloads...

That wording I would think is mainly to discourage people using the
main API as a general downloading API. There are alternatives that
would almost certainly work better.

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[OSM-talk] New layout

[Chris Hill]

I've tried to find the link to blogs.openstreetmap.org on the new layout and 
couldn't find it. I wonder if the 'User Diaries' menu might be renamed to 
'Community' and the diaries, blogs and possibly a link for the Foundation be on 
a dropdown from there? The blogs is a useful link to what is going on in OSMF, 
companies who use and contribute to OSM as well as individuals who choose to 
blog about OSM and when OSM hits the news.
---
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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Lester Caine]

Maarten Deen wrote:

On 2013-12-02 14:38, Barry Hunter wrote:

On 2 December 2013 13:17, Lester Caine wrote:

what is 'export' intended to do?


It gives option to select an area, then download a osm XML file.
Exports the map as data. If the area is big, gives direct links to
various bulk options.


There was an option to download to PDF and PNG, which was nice so you could make
a printed map immediately. Why has that been removed?


That is part of 'Share' now Maarten ...
This is the sort of help file that is missing :(

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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2013/12/2 Ed Loach 

>
> > I
> > ask again - what is 'export' intended to do?
>
> Have you tried it? I just have and it lets me select an area then
> exports that area as OSM .osm XML format. I'm guessing there are
> similar limits to downloading areas as there are in JOSM but haven't
> tried it (I zoomed in on a single feature for testing). So, as far
> as I can tell the same as Export did before the site change at the
> weekend.



It is somehow a nice statement to see that you can actually get the data
"back"/"out", but it doesn't work at all in this form, there really should
be at least an additional link explaining a bit more and offering a list of
services where you can actually get more and all data (i.e. planet.osm.org,
geofabrik, metroextracts, coastlines, overpass, torrent, etc. (if those are
fine with being mentioned prominently there)).

Also it was said that our main API was for editing purposes only, how does
that relate to an export function like this?

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Grant Slater]

On 2 December 2013 13:45, Maarten Deen  wrote:
> On 2013-12-02 14:38, Barry Hunter wrote:
>>
>> On 2 December 2013 13:17, Lester Caine wrote:
>>>
>>> what is 'export' intended to do?
>>
>>
>> It gives option to select an area, then download a osm XML file.
>> Exports the map as data. If the area is big, gives direct links to
>> various bulk options.
>
>
> There was an option to download to PDF and PNG, which was nice so you could
> make a printed map immediately. Why has that been removed?
>

It hasn't been removed. It has moved to the more logical location of
Share on the right hand side.
As a sub-note: We have also had better hardware handling the those
options for the last few months.

/ Grant

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[Philip Barnes]

open.mapquest.co.uk only seems to find banks and bars that are mapped as nodes.

Phil (trigpoint)

--

Sent from my Nokia N9



On 02/12/2013 13:16 Barry Hunter wrote:

On 1 December 2013 12:37, Lester Caine wrote:


>
> The new setup seems to be saying 'if you are not here to map go away!' If
> this is really the case then perhaps we need a NEW site for those of us who
> contribute data with a view to actually using it live?

http://open.mapquest.co.uk/


? That is a site for "end users" of OSM created maps.



In many ways OSM is a data provider, it doesnt have the resources to
create website for end users (as such).

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[Lester Caine]

Barry Hunter wrote:

>The new setup seems to be saying 'if you are not here to map go away!' If
>this is really the case then perhaps we need a NEW site for those of us who
>contribute data with a view to actually using it live?

http://open.mapquest.co.uk/

? That is a site for "end users" of OSM created maps.

In many ways OSM is a data provider, it doesnt have the resources to
create website for end users (as such).


Now I've now found the 'html' option on the OSM map, and along with the link and 
short link these target the same map. Simply replacing the URL with the mapquest 
one does not provide a working link, and in any case the rendering of roads in 
this area is simply wrong ... and that is the whole reason for using the links 
in contact pages.


If a service is not going to be provided then it should not be prominent on the 
front page? In any case, the embeded map is provided via OSM and so maintaining 
a compatible rendering in the follow on link is important, switching to one with 
a different style on another site seems wrong? If we were providing these pages 
ourselves then we would still be using the OSM tile server? I got around 50% of 
the way through rendering my own set - after 7 days - but the tiles were already 
well out of date :(


--
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-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Maarten Deen]

On 2013-12-02 14:38, Barry Hunter wrote:

On 2 December 2013 13:17, Lester Caine wrote:

what is 'export' intended to do?


It gives option to select an area, then download a osm XML file.
Exports the map as data. If the area is big, gives direct links to
various bulk options.


There was an option to download to PDF and PNG, which was nice so you 
could make a printed map immediately. Why has that been removed?


Maarten


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Re: [OSM-talk] proprietary and unrelated images on the about page

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2013/12/2 Pieren 

> For sure, contour lines are not part of OSM but it makes nice images.
> It's all about marketing ;-)
>


While I agree that the image is visually appealing, I still dispute that it
is suitable for representing OSM on our main "about" page. We do have lots
of lots of OSM-related images and different maps based on OSM to choose 4
images from (e.g. the images of the week), we really shouldn't use
proprietary imagery from Mapquest or unrelated srtm data and NASA imagery
for this scope.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Ed Loach]

Lester asked:

> I
> ask again - what is 'export' intended to do?

Have you tried it? I just have and it lets me select an area then
exports that area as OSM .osm XML format. I'm guessing there are
similar limits to downloading areas as there are in JOSM but haven't
tried it (I zoomed in on a single feature for testing). So, as far
as I can tell the same as Export did before the site change at the
weekend.

> Also *IS* there a consistent way of maintaining up to date
> local
> mirrors of the data? 

It depends what you want to do with it. I use a daily scheduled task
to run Osmosis to update a local .osm xml extract. You might find
downloading a daily extract (perhaps in pdf) from Geofabrik is more
useful to you. Or you could set up a database and update it with
diffs, with the database schema depending what you want to do with
the data once you have it. "Consistent" is not really appropriate as
it depends on the use case which method is most useful.

Ed


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Re: [OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Barry Hunter]

On 2 December 2013 13:17, Lester Caine wrote:
> what is 'export' intended to do?

It gives option to select an area, then download a osm XML file.
Exports the map as data. If the area is big, gives direct links to
various bulk options.

Works in Chrome and Firefox for me, guess its a browser related issue,
with what you using?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[Barry Hunter]

On 1 December 2013 12:37, Lester Caine wrote:

>
> The new setup seems to be saying 'if you are not here to map go away!' If
> this is really the case then perhaps we need a NEW site for those of us who
> contribute data with a view to actually using it live?

http://open.mapquest.co.uk/

? That is a site for "end users" of OSM created maps.


In many ways OSM is a data provider, it doesnt have the resources to
create website for end users (as such).

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Re: [OSM-talk] proprietary and unrelated images on the about page

[Pieren]

On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
 wrote:

> Going from left to right, of 4 (identifiable) images only 1 is OSM related
> (the watercolour rendering), while the mapbox rendering doesn't show osm
> data (besides maybe the coastline), the country map is apparently created by
> mapquest from proprietary data: http://mapq.st/IxufcH and the image to the
> right shows 3D-elevation contours, something that OSM doesn't offer or
> provide.

For sure, contour lines are not part of OSM but it makes nice images.
It's all about marketing ;-)

Pieren

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[OSM-talk] Good use of time ...

[Lester Caine]

OK first call of the morning about the new front end ...

I'm expecting to spend a lot of time this week explaining things to people, but 
*I* don't have the information I need to do that! PLEASE can someone who 
understands all the ramifications of the new changes produce a help file to 
explain! I've explained already that none of my own crib sheets are now usable 
and I need to rewrite them, but can't do that without the current information. I 
ask again - what is 'export' intended to do?


Moving forward, I have a LOT of material in the todo file to be added to the map 
data, but very little spare time to do that work. The majority of my time over 
the last few years has been spent fire-fighting changes in the infrastructure to 
keep my end customers working. We now have to support windows from W2k to 8.1 
simply because there is no time to rework core software that is not longer 
supported by others, some of which will only work on W2k! Add to this all the 
'improvements' in the browser market, and all of the changes to PHP and things 
keep getting broken everywhere. Even Linux tools seem to get broken with every 
'improvement' ... anybody got used to gimp's redesign yet ... I KEEP trying to 
save images rather than now exporting them :(


This is why any changes to the infrastructure takes time to assimilate. The 
changes to 'style' applied to the OSM site still have not been reflected in the 
rest of the infrastructure yet. 'Id' still does not provide a suitable on-line 
facility for my usage, so JOSM is getting used more often, but is different 
again to the rest of the infrastructure changes. Asking us to 'contribute 
patches' to fix problems is a major headache where the infrastructure is using a 
less popular framework to start with. If we could get back to a much flatter 
playing field with fewer programming languages and variations on that, then 
perhaps everybody would be a lot more productive? I've had several attempts at 
working with elements of the OSM infrastructure but am currently stuck with an 
out of date slice of the planet file and code that will not run. So I'm reliant 
on the on-line services to do anything productive in OSM.


Please can we target some of the background services such as the management of 
start and end dates better in general so we can make some progress on providing 
OHM and develop a more coherent mechanism for handling 'archive' rather than 
simply deleting historic data. A large section of data that I've been compiling 
is start_date, but this is a little pointless where it is not being managed 
properly? Also *IS* there a consistent way of maintaining up to date local 
mirrors of the data? Working with 2 week old data is bad enough, and I'd like to 
be working with something closer to live then I can provide my own material, but 
until then I'm reliant on what overs are doing ...


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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[Tom Hughes]

On 02/12/13 09:16, Simon Poole wrote:


I believe that is just a result of that the original text (English) only
gets pushed to translatewiki when it has been deployed (without doing
something special which we did for the welcome page a while ago). AFAIK
now it is just a question of translating the new bits and then waiting
for the deployed translations to be updated.


I did attempt to get some translations done - that was the main reason 
for delaying deployment after the merge.


Unfortunately it didn't really work out as the strings weren't pulled to 
TW until Saturday. The first batch of new translations came back this 
morning and are deploying now.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[Minh Nguyen]

On 00:35 2013-12-02, Christian Quest wrote:

Where have the translations gone ? The welcome, help and about are now
english only ? This is the most critical point in this switch that looks
a bit premature to me.


The OSM website is translated at translatewiki.net. Every time an 
interface message changes, the translations have to be updated or users 
see English. I'm not sure how long it takes for new translations to go live.


At the moment, only one language is completely translated, but many are 
making progress. [1] You can sign up at translatewiki to help keep your 
language updated. The wiki has information about translating other parts 
of the OSMverse. [2]


[1] 


[2] 


Browsing objects gives way too much space for the map, hiding some tag
values.


 and 
probably others.


--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[Simon Poole]

I believe that is just a result of that the original text (English) only
gets pushed to translatewiki when it has been deployed (without doing
something special which we did for the welcome page a while ago). AFAIK
now it is just a question of translating the new bits and then waiting
for the deployed translations to be updated.

Simon

Am 02.12.2013 09:35, schrieb Christian Quest:
> Where have the translations gone ? The welcome, help and about are now
> english only ? This is the most critical point in this switch that
> looks a bit premature to me.
>
> Browsing objects gives way too much space for the map, hiding some tag
> values.
>
> When checking "show map data", there used to be a list of objects...
> which seems to have gone now.
>
> -- 
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
> Un nouveau serveur pour OSM... http://donate.osm.org/server2013/
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

[Christian Quest]

Where have the translations gone ? The welcome, help and about are now
english only ? This is the most critical point in this switch that looks a
bit premature to me.

Browsing objects gives way too much space for the map, hiding some tag
values.

When checking "show map data", there used to be a list of objects... which
seems to have gone now.

-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
Un nouveau serveur pour OSM... http://donate.osm.org/server2013/
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