Re: [Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[David Woolley]

In particular, when submitting data obtained through employment, it has 
to be clear that the company is the one that is agreeing to the 
licensing terms, not the individual.



On 21/10/2019 12:47, David Woolley wrote:
I meant you should use an account that clearly belongs to the company. I 
guess you could have an account for each relevant employee, but that 
will cause problems when an employee changes job, either internally, or 
to another employer.


Definitely do not use the same account to submit personal contributions 
and company ones.



On 21/10/2019 12:37, Edward Bainton wrote:

Thanks, David.

Discussion ongoing on the legal list, but FYI from Frederick Ramm, who 
opines:


 > PS: I would strongly advise against using a "corporate account" that
 > groups the activities of many individuals as it makes communication
 > between the group/company members and other members difficult, and 
good

 > communication is a cornerstone of every successful organised editing
 > activity.

I don't know if that's precisely what you meant, but here for info 
(without judgment either way)


Edward

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 20:08, David Woolley 
mailto:for...@david-woolley.me.uk>> wrote:


    On 18/10/2019 17:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
 > *If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment,
    has the
 > work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*
 >

    I think it is true worldwide that employers have the copyright in 
work
    for hire, and only they can licence the use of their copyright.  
If the

    map is being edited at the employers request, the employer should
    create
    an OSM account for such purposes.

    In the UK, if you day job is producing copyrighted maps, you will
    almost
    certainly find that anything you attempt to do on OSM comes under the
    employer's copyright.  California, in the USA, is a notable
    exception to
    this.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[Mateusz Konieczny]

21 Oct 2019, 13:47 by for...@david-woolley.me.uk:

> I meant you should use an account that clearly belongs to the company. I 
> guess you could have an account for each relevant employee, but that will 
> cause problems when an employee changes job, either internally, or to another 
> employer.
>
One can operate multiple accounts. I would say that it is preferable to have 
separate accounts
for bot edits, paid edits and hobby edits.

And single account for a company is a communication nightmare.

>
> Definitely do not use the same account to submit personal contributions and 
> company ones.
>
>
> On 21/10/2019 12:37, Edward Bainton wrote:
>
>> Thanks, David.
>>
>> Discussion ongoing on the legal list, but FYI from Frederick Ramm, who 
>> opines:
>>
>>  > PS: I would strongly advise against using a "corporate account" that
>>  > groups the activities of many individuals as it makes communication
>>  > between the group/company members and other members difficult, and good
>>  > communication is a cornerstone of every successful organised editing
>>  > activity.
>>
>> I don't know if that's precisely what you meant, but here for info (without 
>> judgment either way)
>>
>> Edward
>>
>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 20:08, David Woolley > > wrote:
>>
>>  On 18/10/2019 17:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
>>  > *If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment,
>>  has the
>>  > work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*
>>  >
>>
>>  I think it is true worldwide that employers have the copyright in work
>>  for hire, and only they can licence the use of their copyright.  If the
>>  map is being edited at the employers request, the employer should
>>  create
>>  an OSM account for such purposes.
>>
>>  In the UK, if you day job is producing copyrighted maps, you will
>>  almost
>>  certainly find that anything you attempt to do on OSM comes under the
>>  employer's copyright.  California, in the USA, is a notable
>>  exception to
>>  this.
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[David Woolley]

I meant you should use an account that clearly belongs to the company. 
I guess you could have an account for each relevant employee, but that 
will cause problems when an employee changes job, either internally, or 
to another employer.


Definitely do not use the same account to submit personal contributions 
and company ones.



On 21/10/2019 12:37, Edward Bainton wrote:

Thanks, David.

Discussion ongoing on the legal list, but FYI from Frederick Ramm, who 
opines:


 > PS: I would strongly advise against using a "corporate account" that
 > groups the activities of many individuals as it makes communication
 > between the group/company members and other members difficult, and good
 > communication is a cornerstone of every successful organised editing
 > activity.

I don't know if that's precisely what you meant, but here for info 
(without judgment either way)


Edward

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 20:08, David Woolley > wrote:


On 18/10/2019 17:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
 > *If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment,
has the
 > work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*
 >

I think it is true worldwide that employers have the copyright in work
for hire, and only they can licence the use of their copyright.  If the
map is being edited at the employers request, the employer should
create
an OSM account for such purposes.

In the UK, if you day job is producing copyrighted maps, you will
almost
certainly find that anything you attempt to do on OSM comes under the
employer's copyright.  California, in the USA, is a notable
exception to
this.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[Edward Bainton]

Thanks, David.

Discussion ongoing on the legal list, but FYI from Frederick Ramm, who
opines:

> PS: I would strongly advise against using a "corporate account" that
> groups the activities of many individuals as it makes communication
> between the group/company members and other members difficult, and good
> communication is a cornerstone of every successful organised editing
> activity.

I don't know if that's precisely what you meant, but here for info (without
judgment either way)

Edward

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 20:08, David Woolley 
wrote:

> On 18/10/2019 17:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
> > *If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment, has the
> > work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*
> >
>
> I think it is true worldwide that employers have the copyright in work
> for hire, and only they can licence the use of their copyright.  If the
> map is being edited at the employers request, the employer should create
> an OSM account for such purposes.
>
> In the UK, if you day job is producing copyrighted maps, you will almost
> certainly find that anything you attempt to do on OSM comes under the
> employer's copyright.  California, in the USA, is a notable exception to
> this.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

[Andy Townsend]

On 21/10/2019 10:53, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:




21 Oct 2019, 11:46 by bpran...@gmail.com:

Hi everyone

So  far according tothe taginfo script we've managed to ADD 415
fixmes and remove 84 FIXMEs. I don't have data yet on OSM Notes.
Don't know what's going on here with the increase when the aim of
the project is to reduce the numbers by fixing the issues
indicated nad thereby improve the qualit yof the data.

In my typical mapping surveys, even targeted at fixing fixmes and 
closing notes I often add more

than close.


Same here.  To add to what Mateusz has already said, all notes and 
fixmes are not alike though - what was originally one note "all the 
shops are missing here" might become two for two bits of minor details 
that need checking, after adding all the rest.





I would also compare with previous months - maybe previously people 
were adding say 400 fixmes/month

and removing 10/month?


I don't have data for the whole UK, but do have numbers for "OSM notes" 
and "fixme tags" for a couple of areas going back at least a couple of 
years.  If people are interested I could pull the numbers together.




Should we be converting fixmes to OSM Notes -will this give the
occasional mapper more chance of seeing them and adding detail or
fixing them?

Please no!  We already see examples of people closing notes because they 
don't want them to "clutter them map" and there have been "notes wars" 
in a couple of places around the world.


A significant number (probably most?) OSM notes and fixme tags need 
local knowledge or an on-the-ground survey, so an occasional mapper 
simply isn't going to be able to resolve them.  A mapper who is visiting 
somewhere new and actively wants to look for OSM notes and fixme tags 
can do that already, however they are represented.


Where it probably isn't worth adding fixme tags would be just drawing 
attention to some other missing data.  For example, a few years ago 
every house in Reading* had "fixme=add precise address" on it, which 
meant that to get a useful list of things that needed fixing there you 
had to explicitly filter those out to get a list, and then add one more 
item "collect housenumbers".  The same issue with OSM notes would be 
even more of a problem given that OSM notes are more visible than fixme 
tags.


Best Regards,

Andy

* See https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/98977855/history for an 
example.  It's worth noting that the house numbers and later postcodes 
did get added - you'd need to ask the person who did that whether the 
"fixme" tag was a factor here.  They certainly deserve a big pat on the 
back for adding all that data.




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Re: [Talk-GB] FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

[Mateusz Konieczny]

21 Oct 2019, 11:46 by bpran...@gmail.com:

> Hi everyone
>
> So  far according tothe taginfo script we've managed to ADD 415 fixmes and 
> remove 84 FIXMEs. I don't have data yet on OSM Notes. Don't know what's going 
> on here with the increase when the aim of the project is to reduce the 
> numbers by fixing the issues indicated nad thereby improve the qualit yof the 
> data.
>
In my typical mapping surveys, even targeted at fixing fixmes and closing notes 
I often add more
than close.

For example single "fixme=continue" may be fixed, new path surveyed.
And multiple new "fixme=continue" added at junctions of just surveyed path 
where further 
not yet surveyed paths are present.

I would also compare with previous months - maybe previously people were adding 
say 400 fixmes/month
and removing 10/month?

> Should we be converting fixmes to OSM Notes -will this give the occasional 
> mapper more chance of seeing them and adding detail or fixing them?
>
> Should we be actively dissuading the use of fixmes for the same reason?
>
Fixme are useful in cases where it is valuable to attach them to a specific 
object.

fixme="verify path geometry" is often more clear when added to a way
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[Talk-GB] FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

[Brian Prangle]

Hi everyone

So  far according tothe taginfo script we've managed to ADD 415 fixmes and
remove 84 FIXMEs. I don't have data yet on OSM Notes. Don't know what's
going on here with the increase when the aim of the project is to reduce
the numbers by fixing the issues indicated nad thereby improve the qualit
yof the data.

Should we be converting fixmes to OSM Notes -will this give the occasional
mapper more chance of seeing them and adding detail or fixing them?

Should we be actively dissuading the use of fixmes for the same reason?

Regards

Brian
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