Re: [Texascavers] Texas Highways Cave Article July 1980

[Logan]

Thanks Carl. I have an original of your 1980 article and will be looking 
for the May 2020 issue. Is it available in some bookstores?


On 4/22/2020 3:15 PM, Carl Kunath wrote:

Enjoy,
===Carl Kunath

 
	Virus-free. www.avast.com 
 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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Re: [Texascavers] Texas Highways Cave Article July 1980

[Charles Loving]

I tried to forward it but failed. Nice article however.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:22 PM Carl Kunath 
wrote:

> Enjoy,
>
> ===Carl Kunath
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_-6691708656936941386_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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>


-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] TH May 2020

[Mark Minton]

Nice! Thanks, Carl!

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of
Carl Kunath
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 4:14 PM
To: TexasCavers
Subject: [Texascavers] TH May 2020

 

The current (May 2020) issue of Texas Highways contains a feature article
about Texas caves.

This has created considerable interest but most do not have the issue in
question.

I scanned it for you and have attached it to this mail.

 

As a matter of interest, 40 years ago I wrote a feature article about caves
for the July 1980 Texas Highways.  It is attached to the next mail

 

Enjoy.

 

===Carl Kunath

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Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

[Crash Kennedy]

Mark,

I helped with that article, and will be receiving a couple of complimentary
issues.  Not sure if I'll get a digital copy as well, but even if I don't,
I'll scan the article and make it available.  They did a lot of fact
checking and I think the article turned out pretty well.

Jim

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 12:27 PM Mark Minton  wrote:

> Thanks, Bill. If you get a copy, I’d like to see a scan.
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

[Mark Minton]

Thanks, Bill. If you get a copy, I’d like to see a scan.

 

Mark

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 1:21 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

 

Mark,

 

The May issue will have the article about Texas caving. I was phone interviewed 
for it and I think Crash Kennedy was too.

 

Bill Steele 

 

On Apr 22, 2020, at 12:06 PM, Mark Minton  wrote:

Thanks, Mark. I’d already gone to the Texas Highways web site looking for the 
article, but all I got was the teaser you sent.

 

Mark M

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:19 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: Minton Mark
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

 

Mark et al:

 

Here’s the link to the promo, but probably have to subscribe online to see any 
more!

 

https://texashighways.com/travel/photography/no-words-can-describe-this-no-name-cave-in-the-texas-hill-country/

 

Mark Ross

 

From: Mark Minton 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:32 AM

To: texascavers@texascavers.com 

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

 

Charlie,

 

There was no attachment. :-(

 

Mark Minton

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Charles Loving
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:10 AM
To: Ted Samsel; Cavers Texas; Terry Hollsinger; Gill Ediger; Crash Kennedy; 
Bill Steele; Carl Kunath
Subject: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

 

Article on Caving. Photos etc.


-- 

Charlie Loving

 

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Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

[Bill Steele]

Mark,

The May issue will have the article about Texas caving. I was phone interviewed 
for it and I think Crash Kennedy was too.

Bill Steele 

> On Apr 22, 2020, at 12:06 PM, Mark Minton  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks, Mark. I’d already gone to the Texas Highways web site looking for the 
> article, but all I got was the teaser you sent.
>  
> Mark M
>  
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mark
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:19 PM
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Cc: Minton Mark
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways
>  
> Mark et al:
>  
> Here’s the link to the promo, but probably have to subscribe online to see 
> any more!
>  
> https://texashighways.com/travel/photography/no-words-can-describe-this-no-name-cave-in-the-texas-hill-country/
>  
> Mark Ross
>  
>  
> From: Mark Minton
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:32 AM
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways
>  
> Charlie,
>  
> There was no attachment. :-(
>  
> Mark Minton
>  
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Charles Loving
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:10 AM
> To: Ted Samsel; Cavers Texas; Terry Hollsinger; Gill Ediger; Crash Kennedy; 
> Bill Steele; Carl Kunath
> Subject: [Texascavers] Tex Highways
>  
> Article on Caving. Photos etc.
> --
> Charlie Loving
>  
> ___
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

[Mark Minton]

Thanks, Mark. I’d already gone to the Texas Highways web site looking for the 
article, but all I got was the teaser you sent.

 

Mark M

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:19 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: Minton Mark
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

 

Mark et al:

 

Here’s the link to the promo, but probably have to subscribe online to see any 
more!

 

https://texashighways.com/travel/photography/no-words-can-describe-this-no-name-cave-in-the-texas-hill-country/

 

Mark Ross

 

 

From: Mark Minton 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:32 AM

To: texascavers@texascavers.com 

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

 

Charlie,

 

There was no attachment. :-(

 

Mark Minton

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Charles Loving
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:10 AM
To: Ted Samsel; Cavers Texas; Terry Hollsinger; Gill Ediger; Crash Kennedy; 
Bill Steele; Carl Kunath
Subject: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

 

Article on Caving. Photos etc.


-- 

Charlie Loving

 

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Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

[Mark]

Mark et al:

Here’s the link to the promo, but probably have to subscribe online to see any 
more!

https://texashighways.com/travel/photography/no-words-can-describe-this-no-name-cave-in-the-texas-hill-country/

Mark Ross


From: Mark Minton 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:32 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

Charlie,

 

There was no attachment. :-(

 

Mark Minton

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Charles Loving
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:10 AM
To: Ted Samsel; Cavers Texas; Terry Hollsinger; Gill Ediger; Crash Kennedy; 
Bill Steele; Carl Kunath
Subject: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

 

Article on Caving. Photos etc.


 

-- 

Charlie Loving




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Re: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

[Mark Minton]

Charlie,

 

There was no attachment. :-(

 

Mark Minton

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Charles Loving
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:10 AM
To: Ted Samsel; Cavers Texas; Terry Hollsinger; Gill Ediger; Crash Kennedy; 
Bill Steele; Carl Kunath
Subject: [Texascavers] Tex Highways

 

Article on Caving. Photos etc.


 

-- 

Charlie Loving

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Re: [Texascavers] AMCS Activities Newsletter 42 is here!

[Logan]

Preston & Carol, I picked up my copy from Jim and decided to use Paypal 
to see if it is as easy as Jim & Katie said.

It is! I just paid $18 cash to my pal Jim. :-D

On 4/19/2020 3:56 PM, Carol W Russell wrote:

Thanks Katie, I plan to use Paypal. Carol

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:27 AM Katherine Arens 
mailto:ar...@austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:


and, folks, you don’t NEED a paypal account — your credit card
will work with it!  Weill send out the notice when paypal is ready
to go

katie


On Apr 19, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Crash Kennedy mailto:cavercr...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Preston, you can still mail a good old-fashioned check, also!

But seriously, a PayPal account is super easy to set up and use. 
You'll wonder why you never had one before.

Jim

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 8:53 AM PRESTON FORSYTHE
mailto:pns_...@bellsouth.net>> wrote:

Yes, we will mail order as soon as figure out how to pay.
Never done pay pal, and that seems to be only way to buy?

It would have been worth just going to WVA to pick up a copy.

Preston in Browder

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Katherine Arens, Professor       Phones: Office(512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept.
Phone:  (512) 471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies    FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300 Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at AustinOffice:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802
        -.                         .-
   _..-'(                        )`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.        (\_/)         .//||` .`\.
./'.|'.'\\|..    )O O(  ..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
./'.||'. .      .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| { } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| { } |||.`|||.`
    '.||| | |/'   ``\||``     ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
     |/' \./'     `\./        \!|\   /|!/        \./' `\./ `\|
    V  V    V        }' `\ /' `{        V       V    V
     `    `        `            V             '         '     '




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Re: [Texascavers] AMCS Activities Newsletter 42 is here!

[Carol W Russell]

Thanks Katie, I plan to use Paypal. Carol

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:27 AM Katherine Arens 
wrote:

> and, folks, you don’t NEED a paypal account — your credit card will work
> with it!  Weill send out the notice when paypal is ready to go
>
> katie
>
> On Apr 19, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Crash Kennedy  wrote:
>
> Preston, you can still mail a good old-fashioned check, also!
>
> But seriously, a PayPal account is super easy to set up and use.  You'll
> wonder why you never had one before.
>
> Jim
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 8:53 AM PRESTON FORSYTHE 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, we will mail order as soon as figure out how to pay. Never done pay
>> pal, and that seems to be only way to buy?
>>
>> It would have been worth just going to WVA to pick up a copy.
>>
>> Preston in Browder
>>
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>
> 
> Katherine Arens, ProfessorPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
> ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
> Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
> 2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
> University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
> Austin, TX  78712-1802
>   -. .-
>  _..-'()`-.._
>  ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
>   ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
> ./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
>   ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
>  /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
> '.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
> '.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
>  |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
> V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
>  ``  `V ' ' '
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] AMCS Activities Newsletter 42 is here!

[Katherine Arens]

and, folks, you don’t NEED a paypal account — your credit card will work with 
it!  Weill send out the notice when paypal is ready to go

katie

On Apr 19, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Crash Kennedy 
mailto:cavercr...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Preston, you can still mail a good old-fashioned check, also!

But seriously, a PayPal account is super easy to set up and use.  You'll wonder 
why you never had one before.

Jim

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 8:53 AM PRESTON FORSYTHE 
mailto:pns_...@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
Yes, we will mail order as soon as figure out how to pay. Never done pay pal, 
and that seems to be only way to buy?

It would have been worth just going to WVA to pick up a copy.

Preston in Browder
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Katherine Arens, ProfessorPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 
471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802
  -. .-
 _..-'()`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
  ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
  ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
'.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
 |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
 ``  `V ' ' '




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Re: [Texascavers] AMCS Activities Newsletter 42 is here!

[Crash Kennedy]

Preston, you can still mail a good old-fashioned check, also!

But seriously, a PayPal account is super easy to set up and use.  You'll
wonder why you never had one before.

Jim

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 8:53 AM PRESTON FORSYTHE 
wrote:

> Yes, we will mail order as soon as figure out how to pay. Never done pay
> pal, and that seems to be only way to buy?
>
> It would have been worth just going to WVA to pick up a copy.
>
> Preston in Browder
>
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Re: [Texascavers] AMCS Activities Newsletter 42 is here!

[PRESTON FORSYTHE]

Yes, we will mail order as soon as figure out how to pay. Never done pay pal, 
and that seems to be only way to buy?
It would have been worth just going to WVA to pick up a copy.

Preston in Browder

Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 7:57 AM, Logan wrote:   
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Re: [Texascavers] AMCS Activities Newsletter 42 is here!

[Logan]

Great news! Thanks to Cait, Bill, and all the contributors.

Jim, I'll be over later today to pick up my copy. Assume I don't have to 
pay the $5 postage.:-)


On 4/18/2020 11:57 AM, William R. Elliott wrote:
The new AMCS Activities Newsletter, Number 42, has arrived from the 
printer. It is 146 pp.


See the AMCS website at http://www.mexicancaves.org/ , home page, for 
a look at the cover and the contents page.


This time the newsletter costs *$18 plus postage, now $5 in the USA = 
$23.* Foreign addresses require a calculation by Jim Kennedy (Crash) 
before you can order and pay.


Send money via PayPal if at all possible. 
Seehttps://www.paypal.com/us/home and send money to 
*sa...@mexicancaves.org *. Also send an 
email to Crash at *cavercr...@gmail.com*  
to confirm what you are ordering.


Thanks to newsletter editor, Cait McCann, for a job well done.

*William R. (Bill) Elliott*
*AMCS web editor*

_speodes...@gmail.com _

573-291-5093 cell


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Re: [Texascavers] FW: NSS Convention cancelled

[Jacqui Thomas]

Understandable but certainly heartbreaking, especially for all the folks who 
have been working on giving us a great Convention experience. I’m sad. Jacqui

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
 On Friday, April 17, 2020, Mark Minton  wrote:


-Original Message-

From: Robert Hoke

Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 3:01 PM

Subject: NSS Convention cancelled

  

Folks,

  

The 2020 NSS Convention in West Virginia has been cancelled.

  

The message below just went out announcing the cancellation.  I'm forwarding it 
to everyone I have listed at running a session, workshop, or other activity at 
the convention.

  

This is a sad decision, but certainly not unexpected.

  

Bob Hoke

  



  

Subject:  Sad News...

Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 17:57

From: Geisler, Rich 

To:   

  

April 18, 2029

  

For Immediate distribution

  

Dear NSS Friends,

  

After much listening, discussion, careful consideration, and in accordance with 
federal, state, and local recommendations, we have made the difficult decision 
to cancel the 2020 NSS Convention. Given the painful reality of COVID-19, one 
of the greatest global challenges of our lifetimes, we believe this is the 
right thing to do.

  

Yes, we are heartbroken. We know you are too. However, public health and the 
well-being of our members, our staff, and our neighbors in the Elkins, West 
Virginia, community are our highest priorities.

  

This decision requires a complete change in logistics. To those of you who 
preregistered—in the coming weeks, we will be establishing the mechanisms 
needed to process refunds. You will be contacted individually with your options 
to proceed.

  

We are also considering available options for conducting some elements of 
convention in some virtual space. In the interim, we ask your patience as we 
thought it best to inform everyone of this development sooner rather than later.

  

To the convention staff—we give our full sincere thanks for all the efforts you 
made. It’s difficult times like these that we truly realize what a great group 
of caving friends we have. And we look forward to working with you in the 
future. We are now initiating plans to move the 2020 West Virginia Convention 
to 2023 and moving forward with the 2021 convention in Weed, California.

  

Until we can once more crawl a muddy crawl or party around a bonfire—stay 
smart, stay safe, stay healthy.

  

Rich Geisler and Meredith Weberg

NSS 2020 Convention Co-Chairs

  

Katherine “Kat” Crispin, Ph.D.

NSS Administrative Vice President

  

Geary Schindel

NSS President

  

Nathan Farrar

NSS Chair of the Directorate
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Re: [Texascavers] Need some good reading?

[Charles Loving]

I am reading a book about a Pig and four cats in Mexico working undercover
for Vincente Fox.

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 4:29 PM Katherine Arens 
wrote:

> The journal of the Society for *Technology and Culture *has just make its
> back run free and open access on project MUSE.
>
> https://muse.jhu.edu/journal/194
> it’s a combination of Popular Mechanics and Smithsonian, with footnotes
> you can ignore.  Some fun, some boring stuff.
>
> enjoy
> katie
>
>
> 
> Katherine Arens, ProfessorPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
> ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
> Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
> 2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
> University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
> Austin, TX  78712-1802
>   -. .-
>  _..-'()`-.._
>  ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
>   ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
> ./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
>   ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
>  /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
> '.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
> '.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
>  |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
> V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
>  ``  `V ' ' '
>
>
>
>
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Underground Texas Grotto Virtual Meeting Announcement

[Logan]

Thanks for the link to the youtube channel!

On 3/31/2020 10:25 AM, Underground Texas Grotto wrote:
The UT Grotto is doing our best to ramp up our recording and archiving 
of speakers. We are doing our best to create access to grotto meetings 
during this closure.


We have a youtube channel where we will post recorded meetings when we 
have the personnel, equipment, and the permission from the speaker to 
record their talk.


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyq7K9nSn0OtA6cBF1e5kCQ

1.


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 7:13 PM Logan > wrote:


I just called Kristina Hagar to see if there is a way to record
Sean's presentation so it can be seen later by the "virtually
impaired" members of the club, including me. She said yes that can
and will be done. It would be good to have every speaker's
presentations preserved in a format(s) that could be a backup,
just in case computers and programs change. (What are the chances
of that?)

The Underground Texas Grotto is very fortunate to have access to
excellent speakers on the forefront of cave and karst studies, and
their talks need to be preserved for posterity. With permission
from the speaker, of course. Thanks to Kristina, David Ochel, and
everyone who can make that happen.

Logan McNatt




On 3/30/2020 4:16 PM, Underground Texas Grotto wrote:

Set a reminder: You are invited to the very first virtual meeting
of the Underground Texas Grotto!
Our speaker for the evening will be Sean Lewis

,
presenting slides and stories from his recent exploratory survey
trip to Lechuguilla Cave in New Mexico.
The meeting will begin at 7:30pm central time, Wednesday April 1
2020, and directions to join the meeting on the Zoom app are below.
After Sean's talk, we will have a moderated Q&A - you can use the
chat feature to submit questions as he speaks, or ask them
yourself after he finishes telling his tales.
Make sure to check out the ZOOM app before you need to use it
that evening! Post any questions below so that we can help you.
(BUT READ THE INFO BELOW FIRST)
The grotto is paying for the service, to host these meetings, in
order to have a meeting that exceeds the free 45-minute time
limit. If you feel so compelled, please send in your donations or
dues money (if you can afford to do so, not required) you can
send them via Venmo to @Grace-Borengasser to help us shoulder the
expense of this additional service. Grace


can offer you her PayPal info if requested, as well.
Here are the ZOOM details you'll need to join the meeting:
Underground Texas Grotto is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom
meeting. Topic: Underground Texas Grotto's Zoom Meeting Time: Apr
1, 2020 07:30 PM Central Time (US and Canada) Join Zoom Meeting
https://us04web.zoom.us/j/469543213


Meeting ID: 469 543 213
ZOOM app guide from our tech assistants, Kristina


and David


:


  QUICK START GUIDE

 1. You don’t have to have a zoom account to join
2.
Download the app ahead of time, on both your laptop and phone.
 1. https://zoom.us/download


 2. The best experience is on a laptop/desktop or even tablet
since there will usually be a presentation, but a phone
will suffice if that’s what you have.
3.
Use the test meeting zoom provides (https://zoom.us/test

Re: [Texascavers] Underground Texas Grotto Virtual Meeting Announcement

[Underground Texas Grotto]

The UT Grotto is doing our best to ramp up our recording and archiving of
speakers. We are doing our best to create access to grotto meetings during
this closure.

We have a youtube channel where we will post recorded meetings when we have
the personnel, equipment, and the permission from the speaker to record
their talk.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyq7K9nSn0OtA6cBF1e5kCQ

   1.


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 7:13 PM Logan  wrote:

> I just called Kristina Hagar to see if there is a way to record Sean's
> presentation so it can be seen later by the "virtually impaired" members of
> the club, including me. She said yes that can and will be done. It would be
> good to have every speaker's presentations preserved in a format(s) that
> could be a backup, just in case computers and programs change. (What are
> the chances of that?)
>
> The Underground Texas Grotto is very fortunate to have access to excellent
> speakers on the forefront of cave and karst studies, and their talks need
> to be preserved for posterity. With permission from the speaker, of course.
> Thanks to Kristina, David Ochel, and everyone who can make that happen.
>
> Logan McNatt
>
>
>
>
> On 3/30/2020 4:16 PM, Underground Texas Grotto wrote:
>
> Set a reminder: You are invited to the very first virtual meeting of the
> Underground Texas Grotto!
> Our speaker for the evening will be Sean Lewis
> ,
> presenting slides and stories from his recent exploratory survey trip to
> Lechuguilla Cave in New Mexico.
> The meeting will begin at 7:30pm central time, Wednesday April 1 2020, and
> directions to join the meeting on the Zoom app are below.
> After Sean's talk, we will have a moderated Q&A - you can use the chat
> feature to submit questions as he speaks, or ask them yourself after he
> finishes telling his tales.
> Make sure to check out the ZOOM app before you need to use it that
> evening! Post any questions below so that we can help you. (BUT READ THE
> INFO BELOW FIRST)
> The grotto is paying for the service, to host these meetings, in order to
> have a meeting that exceeds the free 45-minute time limit. If you feel so
> compelled, please send in your donations or dues money (if you can afford
> to do so, not required) you can send them via Venmo to @Grace-Borengasser
> to help us shoulder the expense of this additional service. Grace
> 
> can offer you her PayPal info if requested, as well.
> Here are the ZOOM details you'll need to join the meeting:
> Underground Texas Grotto is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
> Topic: Underground Texas Grotto's Zoom Meeting Time: Apr 1, 2020 07:30 PM
> Central Time (US and Canada) Join Zoom Meeting
> https://us04web.zoom.us/j/469543213
> 
> Meeting ID: 469 543 213
> ZOOM app guide from our tech assistants, Kristina
> 
> and David
> 
> :
> QUICK START GUIDE
>
>1. You don’t have to have a zoom account to join
>2. Download the app ahead of time, on both your laptop and phone.
>1. https://zoom.us/download
>   
> 
>   2. The best experience is on a laptop/desktop or even tablet since
>   there will usually be a presentation, but a phone will suffice if that’s
>   what you have.
>3. Use the test meeting zoom provides (https://zoom.us/test
>
> 
>)
>1. For the test meeting you are the only one there, so to verify
>   audio, 

Re: [Texascavers] Underground Texas Grotto Virtual Meeting Announcement

[Logan]

I just called Kristina Hagar to see if there is a way to record Sean's 
presentation so it can be seen later by the "virtually impaired" members 
of the club, including me. She said yes that can and will be done. It 
would be good to have every speaker's presentations preserved in a 
format(s) that could be a backup, just in case computers and programs 
change. (What are the chances of that?)


The Underground Texas Grotto is very fortunate to have access to 
excellent speakers on the forefront of cave and karst studies, and their 
talks need to be preserved for posterity. With permission from the 
speaker, of course. Thanks to Kristina, David Ochel, and everyone who 
can make that happen.


Logan McNatt




On 3/30/2020 4:16 PM, Underground Texas Grotto wrote:
Set a reminder: You are invited to the very first virtual meeting of 
the Underground Texas Grotto!
Our speaker for the evening will be Sean Lewis 
, 
presenting slides and stories from his recent exploratory survey trip 
to Lechuguilla Cave in New Mexico.
The meeting will begin at 7:30pm central time, Wednesday April 1 2020, 
and directions to join the meeting on the Zoom app are below.
After Sean's talk, we will have a moderated Q&A - you can use the chat 
feature to submit questions as he speaks, or ask them yourself after 
he finishes telling his tales.
Make sure to check out the ZOOM app before you need to use it that 
evening! Post any questions below so that we can help you. (BUT READ 
THE INFO BELOW FIRST)
The grotto is paying for the service, to host these meetings, in order 
to have a meeting that exceeds the free 45-minute time limit. If you 
feel so compelled, please send in your donations or dues money (if you 
can afford to do so, not required) you can send them via Venmo to 
@Grace-Borengasser to help us shoulder the expense of this additional 
service. Grace 
 
can offer you her PayPal info if requested, as well.

Here are the ZOOM details you'll need to join the meeting:
Underground Texas Grotto is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. 
Topic: Underground Texas Grotto's Zoom Meeting Time: Apr 1, 2020 07:30 
PM Central Time (US and Canada) Join Zoom Meeting 
https://us04web.zoom.us/j/469543213 
 
Meeting ID: 469 543 213
ZOOM app guide from our tech assistants, Kristina 
 
and David 
 
:



  QUICK START GUIDE

 1. You don’t have to have a zoom account to join
2.
Download the app ahead of time, on both your laptop and phone.
 1. https://zoom.us/download


 2. The best experience is on a laptop/desktop or even tablet
since there will usually be a presentation, but a phone will
suffice if that’s what you have.
3.
Use the test meeting zoom provides (https://zoom.us/test

)
 1. For the test meeting you are the only one there, so to verify
audio, please use the 'test audio and mic' function
4.
Audio tips
 1. The best results are if you wear a headset (earbuds and
microphone) plugged into your laptop headset jack (or a
bluetooth one). Any cheap one will do and will make it way
easier for others to hear you speak. It will also
significantly reduce any feedback and environmental noise
degrading everybody else’s audio experience while you are not
on mute.
 2. If you are just listening, not wanti

Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Postponed

[Denise P]

Kris has clarified that the convention in early May has been cancelled.

Get Outlook for Android


From: Texascavers  on behalf of Kris Pena 

Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 3:55:09 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Postponed


Friends,

Due to the ongoing COVID-19 situation, we are tentatively rescheduling the TSA 
Spring Convention for the weekend of September 11-13. As of now, we don't 
intend to cancel and look forward to gathering with all of you once we're all 
safely on the other side of this! Cave on!



Kris Pena

TSA Vice-Chair
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Re: [Texascavers] MAP SALOON ENTRIES

[Carol W Russell]

Charlie has mapped the caver soul

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 4:02 PM Charles Loving  wrote:

>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] MAP SALOON ENTRIES

[William R. Elliott]

Well, maybe these came out of a saloon...

*William R. (Bill) Elliott*

*speodes...@gmail.com *

573-291-5093 cell


On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 9:55 AM Tim Stich  wrote:

> Terry, we need a new inane project pronto!
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 4:25 PM Carol W Russell 
> wrote:
>
>> If there's a Map Saloon, these are perfect.But also for the Salon
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 4:03 PM Nancy Weaver  wrote:
>>
>>> first place! Nancy
>>>
>>> > On Mar 19, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Charles Loving 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Charlie Loving
>>> > >> 1.jpg>>> cave copy.jpg>>> WALKER.jpg>___
>>> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>>> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>>> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>>
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>>>
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>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
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Re: [Texascavers] MAP SALOON ENTRIES

[Tim Stich]

Terry, we need a new inane project pronto!

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 4:25 PM Carol W Russell 
wrote:

> If there's a Map Saloon, these are perfect.But also for the Salon
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 4:03 PM Nancy Weaver  wrote:
>
>> first place! Nancy
>>
>> > On Mar 19, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Charles Loving 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Charlie Loving
>> > > 1.jpg>> cave copy.jpg>> WALKER.jpg>___
>> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
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>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Thailand Cave Rescue Books

[Evatt]

Lee,

You are now appointed the Official Mixon Cave Book Reviewer.

Please read and review all 14 books and publish the comments fourteen days from 
now on SWR Cavers.

Thanks,

Jim E^v^

From: Lee H. Skinner 
Sent: March 20, 2020 4:57 PM
To: Michael Mansur ; Sandia Grotto ; New Mexico Cavers ; Texas Cavers 
Subject: [SWR CAVERS] Thailand Cave Rescue Books

There are now 14 such books about the rescue on Amazon, but I have no idea 
which are the best.  -Lee Skinner


The Boys in the Cave: Deep Inside the Impossible Rescue in Thailand
Rising Water: The Story of the Thai Cave Rescue
Miracle in the Cave: The 12 Lost Boys, Their Coach, and the Heroes Who Rescued 
Them
Against All Odds
Titan and the Wild Boars: The True Cave Rescue of the Thai Soccer Team
Trapped in Thailand's Cave
Trapped in a Thailand Cave (Xtreme Rescues)
The Joy Of Thailand Cave Rescue
Thailand Cave Rescue: Part One – Disappearance and Discovery (Volume 1) First 
Edition
The Great Cave Rescue: The extraordinary story of the Thai boy football team 
trapped in a cave for 18 days
The Thailand Cave Rescue Conspiracy: The Truth behind the World’s Biggest S&R 
Mission
Thai Cave Rescue: Hooyah!: From Gross Darkness to Light
The Great Cave Rescue
WILD BOARS LIVE TWICE!: Thai Cave Rescue: Mission Impossible


On 3/20/2020 4:16 PM, 'Michael Mansur' via Sandia Grotto of the National 
Speleological Society wrote:

  Hi folks,


  Sam Bono sent us this information about the book The Boys in the Cave, by 
Matt Gutman.  


  It is about the experience and rescue of the Thai Soccer Team. The book can 
be found in the Albuquerque Library, 363.348.

  Take care, and stay safe,

  Mike 

  Mike Mansur
  Sandia Grotto Chair
  mcman...@zoho.com




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Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number WQ0015835001 was received.

[Joe Ranzau]

I concur with Jules -

Having been on the regulators side of the table, petitions or even just a
bunch of comments that pasted in the same message do little to move the
needle.

We need thoughtful messages that reinforce the importance of protecting
this place, using good science, and making smart choices.

Note this does not mean we can't use consistent talking points.  It means
you should write your own message.

Joe
210.289.6839

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 2:42 PM Jules Jenkins  wrote:

> Carol, I understand your dilemma however, again my numerous experiences
> have been 10 signatures doesn’t at all have the impact that 10 individual
> letters will have. If you need help w/computing, I’m sure there’s a caver
> close by who could assist.
>
> Jules
>
> On Mar 20, 2020, at 1:43 PM, Carol W Russell  wrote:
>
> 
> Jay, wonderful writing! As to other comments, if there is a way to sign a
> statement from many cavers please let me know how. (I have trouble with
> computers). Carol R.
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:05 PM Jay Jorden  wrote:
>
>> FYI
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: 
>> Date: Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 10:59 PM
>> Subject: TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number
>> WQ0015835001 was received.
>> To: 
>>
>>
>> *REGULATED ENTITY NAME* HONEY CREEK RANCH WWTP
>>
>> *RN NUMBER:* RN110389046
>>
>> *PERMIT NUMBER:* WQ0015835001
>>
>> *DOCKET NUMBER:*
>>
>> *COUNTY:* COMAL
>>
>> *PRINCIPAL NAME:* SILESIA PROPERTIES LP
>>
>> *CN NUMBER:* CN605525542
>>
>> * FROM*
>>
>> *NAME:* MR Jay R. Jorden
>>
>> *E-MAIL:* jjor...@gmail.com
>>
>> *COMPANY:*
>>
>> *ADDRESS:* 11201 COUNTY ROAD 132
>> CELINA TX 75009-2527
>>
>> *PHONE:* 2142026611
>>
>> *FAX:*
>>
>> *COMMENTS:* I am writing in opposition to the permit application. Also,
>> I would also request the opportunity t submit more comments at a later
>> time. Since the 1970s, I have been coming to this pristine wildland along
>> Honey Creek and, even though just a visitor, was repeatedly impressed by
>> it. I also saw the crystal-clear waters from within the earth - as a cave
>> explorer. So now dense development is planned at the top of the Honey Creek
>> watershed. The plans are to inject 360,000+ gallons per day of treated
>> wastewater into the karst terrain above Honey Creek Cave. Karst is a
>> geological term from Europe that means most of all of the drainage is
>> through caves. Building thousands of homes on the surface will create an
>> enormous amount of storm runoff, which would carry many contaminants
>> including wastewater into Honey Creek and ultimately the Guadalupe River.
>> This would seriously impact Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
>> conservation lands and the nearby Guadalupe State Park. Water studies of
>> Honey Creek indicate that this is probably one of the cleanest natural
>> streams in the whole state of Texas. Because the state has invested
>> substantially in the Honey Creek State Natural Area to preserve it as well
>> as in the Guadalupe State Park downstream, the risk of both waste water and
>> stormwater pollution from a high density subdivision is unacceptable. The
>> area, aside from value as a wildland, has historical significance. The
>> waters of Honey Creek important to the settlement of Comal County. one
>> ranch along the waterway was recognized as a State Historic Site by the
>> Texas Historical Commission; and in 2018 was Listed in the National
>> Register of Historic Places by the U.S. Department of the Interior National
>> Park Service. The Texas Hill Country rests atop a particularly fragile
>> Karst ecosystem. Water moves thru a karst system differently. Surface
>> recharge features (cracks, fissures, pits, sumps) are all designed to move
>> water quickly into subterranean acquifers. These aquifers provide the
>> drinking water for millions of people, including San Antonio. Springs
>> flowing from these same aquifers provide critical habitat to a unique group
>> of plant and animal species—many of which are found only in the most
>> protected streams and riparian areas of Central Texas. However, we will
>> lose most of it due to rampant and unregulated development over the
>> recharge area, and the failure of an already-broken system intended to
>> regulate the disposal of wastewater. You have already received comments and
>> testimony that treated effluent discharged into a tributary of Honey Creek
>> will negatively impact water quality--primarily through significant
>> increases of nitrogen and phosphate levels. These nutrients will encourage
>> the growth of algae and will degrade the recreational and aesthetic value
>> of Honey Creek. Decaying mats of algae will impact dissolved oxygen levels
>> and will almost certainly have a devastating effect on aquatic life.
>> Pharmaceuticals and personal care products contained in the effluent will
>> eventually enter Honey Creek and then will become a dramatic example of how
>> a once un-impaired aquatic system with exceptional levels of aquat

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number WQ0015835001 was received.

[Jules Jenkins]

Carol, I understand your dilemma however, again my numerous experiences have 
been 10 signatures doesn’t at all have the impact that 10 individual letters 
will have. If you need help w/computing, I’m sure there’s a caver close by who 
could assist. 

Jules

> On Mar 20, 2020, at 1:43 PM, Carol W Russell  wrote:
> 


Jay, wonderful writing! As to other comments, if there is a way to sign a 
statement from many cavers please let me know how. (I have trouble with 
computers). Carol R.

> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:05 PM Jay Jorden  wrote:
> FYI
> 
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: 
> Date: Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 10:59 PM
> Subject: TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number WQ0015835001 
> was received.
> To: 
> 
> 
> REGULATED ENTITY NAME HONEY CREEK RANCH WWTP
> 
> RN NUMBER: RN110389046
> 
> PERMIT NUMBER: WQ0015835001
> 
> DOCKET NUMBER:
> 
> COUNTY: COMAL
> 
> PRINCIPAL NAME: SILESIA PROPERTIES LP
> 
> CN NUMBER: CN605525542
> 
> FROM
> 
> NAME: MR Jay R. Jorden
> 
> E-MAIL: jjor...@gmail.com
> 
> COMPANY:
> 
> ADDRESS: 11201 COUNTY ROAD 132 
> CELINA TX 75009-2527
> 
> PHONE: 2142026611
> 
> FAX:
> 
> COMMENTS: I am writing in opposition to the permit application. Also, I would 
> also request the opportunity t submit more comments at a later time. Since 
> the 1970s, I have been coming to this pristine wildland along Honey Creek 
> and, even though just a visitor, was repeatedly impressed by it. I also saw 
> the crystal-clear waters from within the earth - as a cave explorer. So now 
> dense development is planned at the top of the Honey Creek watershed. The 
> plans are to inject 360,000+ gallons per day of treated wastewater into the 
> karst terrain above Honey Creek Cave. Karst is a geological term from Europe 
> that means most of all of the drainage is through caves. Building thousands 
> of homes on the surface will create an enormous amount of storm runoff, which 
> would carry many contaminants including wastewater into Honey Creek and 
> ultimately the Guadalupe River. This would seriously impact Texas Parks and 
> Wildlife Department conservation lands and the nearby Guadalupe State Park. 
> Water studies of Honey Creek indicate that this is probably one of the 
> cleanest natural streams in the whole state of Texas. Because the state has 
> invested substantially in the Honey Creek State Natural Area to preserve it 
> as well as in the Guadalupe State Park downstream, the risk of both waste 
> water and stormwater pollution from a high density subdivision is 
> unacceptable. The area, aside from value as a wildland, has historical 
> significance. The waters of Honey Creek important to the settlement of Comal 
> County. one ranch along the waterway was recognized as a State Historic Site 
> by the Texas Historical Commission; and in 2018 was Listed in the National 
> Register of Historic Places by the U.S. Department of the Interior National 
> Park Service. The Texas Hill Country rests atop a particularly fragile Karst 
> ecosystem. Water moves thru a karst system differently. Surface recharge 
> features (cracks, fissures, pits, sumps) are all designed to move water 
> quickly into subterranean acquifers. These aquifers provide the drinking 
> water for millions of people, including San Antonio. Springs flowing from 
> these same aquifers provide critical habitat to a unique group of plant and 
> animal species—many of which are found only in the most protected streams and 
> riparian areas of Central Texas. However, we will lose most of it due to 
> rampant and unregulated development over the recharge area, and the failure 
> of an already-broken system intended to regulate the disposal of wastewater. 
> You have already received comments and testimony that treated effluent 
> discharged into a tributary of Honey Creek will negatively impact water 
> quality--primarily through significant increases of nitrogen and phosphate 
> levels. These nutrients will encourage the growth of algae and will degrade 
> the recreational and aesthetic value of Honey Creek. Decaying mats of algae 
> will impact dissolved oxygen levels and will almost certainly have a 
> devastating effect on aquatic life. Pharmaceuticals and personal care 
> products contained in the effluent will eventually enter Honey Creek and then 
> will become a dramatic example of how a once un-impaired aquatic system with 
> exceptional levels of aquatic life use was degraded due to wastewater and 
> high-density residential development! And if 500,000 gallons of treated 
> wastewater discharge isn't bad enough, the non-point source pollution 
> reaching the creek during storm events and leaching into the aquifer will be 
> an even greater problem. Herbicides, pesticides, and fertilizers used on 
> turfgrass lawns, and oil/fluids leaking from thousands of additional cars 
> will wreak havoc on our groundwater. Because of the immense footprint of this 
> development, open ground will be significantly dim

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number WQ0015835001 was received.

[Carol W Russell]

Jay, wonderful writing! As to other comments, if there is a way to sign a
statement from many cavers please let me know how. (I have trouble with
computers). Carol R.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:05 PM Jay Jorden  wrote:

> FYI
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: 
> Date: Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 10:59 PM
> Subject: TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number
> WQ0015835001 was received.
> To: 
>
>
> *REGULATED ENTITY NAME* HONEY CREEK RANCH WWTP
>
> *RN NUMBER:* RN110389046
>
> *PERMIT NUMBER:* WQ0015835001
>
> *DOCKET NUMBER:*
>
> *COUNTY:* COMAL
>
> *PRINCIPAL NAME:* SILESIA PROPERTIES LP
>
> *CN NUMBER:* CN605525542
>
> * FROM*
>
> *NAME:* MR Jay R. Jorden
>
> *E-MAIL:* jjor...@gmail.com
>
> *COMPANY:*
>
> *ADDRESS:* 11201 COUNTY ROAD 132
> CELINA TX 75009-2527
>
> *PHONE:* 2142026611
>
> *FAX:*
>
> *COMMENTS:* I am writing in opposition to the permit application. Also, I
> would also request the opportunity t submit more comments at a later time.
> Since the 1970s, I have been coming to this pristine wildland along Honey
> Creek and, even though just a visitor, was repeatedly impressed by it. I
> also saw the crystal-clear waters from within the earth - as a cave
> explorer. So now dense development is planned at the top of the Honey Creek
> watershed. The plans are to inject 360,000+ gallons per day of treated
> wastewater into the karst terrain above Honey Creek Cave. Karst is a
> geological term from Europe that means most of all of the drainage is
> through caves. Building thousands of homes on the surface will create an
> enormous amount of storm runoff, which would carry many contaminants
> including wastewater into Honey Creek and ultimately the Guadalupe River.
> This would seriously impact Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
> conservation lands and the nearby Guadalupe State Park. Water studies of
> Honey Creek indicate that this is probably one of the cleanest natural
> streams in the whole state of Texas. Because the state has invested
> substantially in the Honey Creek State Natural Area to preserve it as well
> as in the Guadalupe State Park downstream, the risk of both waste water and
> stormwater pollution from a high density subdivision is unacceptable. The
> area, aside from value as a wildland, has historical significance. The
> waters of Honey Creek important to the settlement of Comal County. one
> ranch along the waterway was recognized as a State Historic Site by the
> Texas Historical Commission; and in 2018 was Listed in the National
> Register of Historic Places by the U.S. Department of the Interior National
> Park Service. The Texas Hill Country rests atop a particularly fragile
> Karst ecosystem. Water moves thru a karst system differently. Surface
> recharge features (cracks, fissures, pits, sumps) are all designed to move
> water quickly into subterranean acquifers. These aquifers provide the
> drinking water for millions of people, including San Antonio. Springs
> flowing from these same aquifers provide critical habitat to a unique group
> of plant and animal species—many of which are found only in the most
> protected streams and riparian areas of Central Texas. However, we will
> lose most of it due to rampant and unregulated development over the
> recharge area, and the failure of an already-broken system intended to
> regulate the disposal of wastewater. You have already received comments and
> testimony that treated effluent discharged into a tributary of Honey Creek
> will negatively impact water quality--primarily through significant
> increases of nitrogen and phosphate levels. These nutrients will encourage
> the growth of algae and will degrade the recreational and aesthetic value
> of Honey Creek. Decaying mats of algae will impact dissolved oxygen levels
> and will almost certainly have a devastating effect on aquatic life.
> Pharmaceuticals and personal care products contained in the effluent will
> eventually enter Honey Creek and then will become a dramatic example of how
> a once un-impaired aquatic system with exceptional levels of aquatic life
> use was degraded due to wastewater and high-density residential
> development! And if 500,000 gallons of treated wastewater discharge isn't
> bad enough, the non-point source pollution reaching the creek during storm
> events and leaching into the aquifer will be an even greater problem.
> Herbicides, pesticides, and fertilizers used on turfgrass lawns, and
> oil/fluids leaking from thousands of additional cars will wreak havoc on
> our groundwater. Because of the immense footprint of this development, open
> ground will be significantly diminished; stormwater runoff will increase
> from the many impervious surfaces (roads, driveways, and rooftops). As a
> result, downstream flooding of Honey Creek will increase in both rate and
> severity, greatly increasing soil erosion along the streambed, and
> resulting in significantly diminished water quality. Honey Creek Cave,
> Texas' longest cave,

Re: [Texascavers] TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number WQ0015835001 was received.

[julie jenkins]

Bill, is there a way to post those 49 comments on tex cave?

Over many years/decades of dealing w/City of Austin, TCEQ, USFW, TXDOT and 
other bureaucracy’s,  Science is what is needed, emotions don’t even touch 
these people. I’ve interacted w/TCEQ staff who completely agree and still have 
to follow party line or their jobs were jeopardized. 

Any of the 49 response from our CAVE SCIENTISTS?
How many cavers are in Texas?  Only 49?

I’ll certainly echo any science comments and send them, even though I’m not in 
Texas.





> On Mar 20, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Bill Steele  wrote:
> 


> Nicely written, Jay, thanks a lot. 
> 
> We heard last night that 49 comments were received before yesterday’s 
> deadline. Thank you to those who rose to the occasion. There will be another 
> opportunity to submit a comment by a future deadline. Information about it 
> will be posted here.
> 
> Bill Steele 
> Irving, Texas
> speleoste...@aol.com
> 
>> On Mar 19, 2020, at 11:05 PM, Jay Jorden  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> FYI
>> 
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: mailto:donotre...@tceq.texas.gov>>
>> Date: Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 10:59 PM
>> Subject: TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number 
>> WQ0015835001 was received.
>> To: mailto:jjor...@gmail.com>>
>> 
>> 
>> REGULATED ENTITY NAME HONEY CREEK RANCH WWTP
>> 
>> RN NUMBER: RN110389046
>> 
>> PERMIT NUMBER: WQ0015835001
>> 
>> DOCKET NUMBER:
>> 
>> COUNTY: COMAL
>> 
>> PRINCIPAL NAME: SILESIA PROPERTIES LP
>> 
>> CN NUMBER: CN605525542
>> 
>> FROM
>> 
>> NAME: MR Jay R. Jorden
>> 
>> E-MAIL: jjor...@gmail.com 
>> 
>> COMPANY:
>> 
>> ADDRESS: 11201 COUNTY ROAD 132 
>> CELINA TX 75009-2527
>> 
>> PHONE: 2142026611
>> 
>> FAX:
>> 
>> COMMENTS: I am writing in opposition to the permit application. Also, I 
>> would also request the opportunity t submit more comments at a later time. 
>> Since the 1970s, I have been coming to this pristine wildland along Honey 
>> Creek and, even though just a visitor, was repeatedly impressed by it. I 
>> also saw the crystal-clear waters from within the earth - as a cave 
>> explorer. So now dense development is planned at the top of the Honey Creek 
>> watershed. The plans are to inject 360,000+ gallons per day of treated 
>> wastewater into the karst terrain above Honey Creek Cave. Karst is a 
>> geological term from Europe that means most of all of the drainage is 
>> through caves. Building thousands of homes on the surface will create an 
>> enormous amount of storm runoff, which would carry many contaminants 
>> including wastewater into Honey Creek and ultimately the Guadalupe River. 
>> This would seriously impact Texas Parks and Wildlife Department conservation 
>> lands and the nearby Guadalupe State Park. Water studies of Honey Creek 
>> indicate that this is probably one of the cleanest natural streams in the 
>> whole state of Texas. Because the state has invested substantially in the 
>> Honey Creek State Natural Area to preserve it as well as in the Guadalupe 
>> State Park downstream, the risk of both waste water and stormwater pollution 
>> from a high density subdivision is unacceptable. The area, aside from value 
>> as a wildland, has historical significance. The waters of Honey Creek 
>> important to the settlement of Comal County. one ranch along the waterway 
>> was recognized as a State Historic Site by the Texas Historical Commission; 
>> and in 2018 was Listed in the National Register of Historic Places by the 
>> U.S. Department of the Interior National Park Service. The Texas Hill 
>> Country rests atop a particularly fragile Karst ecosystem. Water moves thru 
>> a karst system differently. Surface recharge features (cracks, fissures, 
>> pits, sumps) are all designed to move water quickly into subterranean 
>> acquifers. These aquifers provide the drinking water for millions of people, 
>> including San Antonio. Springs flowing from these same aquifers provide 
>> critical habitat to a unique group of plant and animal species—many of which 
>> are found only in the most protected streams and riparian areas of Central 
>> Texas. However, we will lose most of it due to rampant and unregulated 
>> development over the recharge area, and the failure of an already-broken 
>> system intended to regulate the disposal of wastewater. You have already 
>> received comments and testimony that treated effluent discharged into a 
>> tributary of Honey Creek will negatively impact water quality--primarily 
>> through significant increases of nitrogen and phosphate levels. These 
>> nutrients will encourage the growth of algae and will degrade the 
>> recreational and aesthetic value of Honey Creek. Decaying mats of algae will 
>> impact dissolved oxygen levels and will almost certainly have a devastating 
>> effect on aquatic life. Pharmaceuticals and personal care products contained 
>> in the effluent will eventually enter Honey Creek and then will become a 
>> dramatic example of how a

Re: [Texascavers] TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number WQ0015835001 was received.

[julie jenkins]

We’ve got very educated and articulate cavers out there. How about someone 
writing up comments that others can copy and sign, send in? We need lots of 
people, like ALL CAVERS, NOT JUST IN TEXAS to participate.
Geary, can this go out to the NSS at large for comment?

Jay, your comments were great, let’s get folks who aren’t comfortable to 
cut/paste/copy/sign and submit?

What do y’all think?



> On Mar 20, 2020, at 9:10 AM, Nancy  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Excellent comment. Jay. Thanks. 
> Nancy 
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number WQ0015835001 was received.

[Bill Steele]

Nicely written, Jay, thanks a lot. 

We heard last night that 49 comments were received before yesterday’s deadline. 
Thank you to those who rose to the occasion. There will be another opportunity 
to submit a comment by a future deadline. Information about it will be posted 
here.

Bill Steele 
Irving, Texas
speleoste...@aol.com

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 11:05 PM, Jay Jorden  wrote:
> 
> 
> FYI
> 
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: 
> Date: Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 10:59 PM
> Subject: TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number WQ0015835001 
> was received.
> To: 
> 
> 
> REGULATED ENTITY NAME HONEY CREEK RANCH WWTP
> 
> RN NUMBER: RN110389046
> 
> PERMIT NUMBER: WQ0015835001
> 
> DOCKET NUMBER:
> 
> COUNTY: COMAL
> 
> PRINCIPAL NAME: SILESIA PROPERTIES LP
> 
> CN NUMBER: CN605525542
> 
> FROM
> 
> NAME: MR Jay R. Jorden
> 
> E-MAIL: jjor...@gmail.com
> 
> COMPANY:
> 
> ADDRESS: 11201 COUNTY ROAD 132 
> CELINA TX 75009-2527
> 
> PHONE: 2142026611
> 
> FAX:
> 
> COMMENTS: I am writing in opposition to the permit application. Also, I would 
> also request the opportunity t submit more comments at a later time. Since 
> the 1970s, I have been coming to this pristine wildland along Honey Creek 
> and, even though just a visitor, was repeatedly impressed by it. I also saw 
> the crystal-clear waters from within the earth - as a cave explorer. So now 
> dense development is planned at the top of the Honey Creek watershed. The 
> plans are to inject 360,000+ gallons per day of treated wastewater into the 
> karst terrain above Honey Creek Cave. Karst is a geological term from Europe 
> that means most of all of the drainage is through caves. Building thousands 
> of homes on the surface will create an enormous amount of storm runoff, which 
> would carry many contaminants including wastewater into Honey Creek and 
> ultimately the Guadalupe River. This would seriously impact Texas Parks and 
> Wildlife Department conservation lands and the nearby Guadalupe State Park. 
> Water studies of Honey Creek indicate that this is probably one of the 
> cleanest natural streams in the whole state of Texas. Because the state has 
> invested substantially in the Honey Creek State Natural Area to preserve it 
> as well as in the Guadalupe State Park downstream, the risk of both waste 
> water and stormwater pollution from a high density subdivision is 
> unacceptable. The area, aside from value as a wildland, has historical 
> significance. The waters of Honey Creek important to the settlement of Comal 
> County. one ranch along the waterway was recognized as a State Historic Site 
> by the Texas Historical Commission; and in 2018 was Listed in the National 
> Register of Historic Places by the U.S. Department of the Interior National 
> Park Service. The Texas Hill Country rests atop a particularly fragile Karst 
> ecosystem. Water moves thru a karst system differently. Surface recharge 
> features (cracks, fissures, pits, sumps) are all designed to move water 
> quickly into subterranean acquifers. These aquifers provide the drinking 
> water for millions of people, including San Antonio. Springs flowing from 
> these same aquifers provide critical habitat to a unique group of plant and 
> animal species—many of which are found only in the most protected streams and 
> riparian areas of Central Texas. However, we will lose most of it due to 
> rampant and unregulated development over the recharge area, and the failure 
> of an already-broken system intended to regulate the disposal of wastewater. 
> You have already received comments and testimony that treated effluent 
> discharged into a tributary of Honey Creek will negatively impact water 
> quality--primarily through significant increases of nitrogen and phosphate 
> levels. These nutrients will encourage the growth of algae and will degrade 
> the recreational and aesthetic value of Honey Creek. Decaying mats of algae 
> will impact dissolved oxygen levels and will almost certainly have a 
> devastating effect on aquatic life. Pharmaceuticals and personal care 
> products contained in the effluent will eventually enter Honey Creek and then 
> will become a dramatic example of how a once un-impaired aquatic system with 
> exceptional levels of aquatic life use was degraded due to wastewater and 
> high-density residential development! And if 500,000 gallons of treated 
> wastewater discharge isn't bad enough, the non-point source pollution 
> reaching the creek during storm events and leaching into the aquifer will be 
> an even greater problem. Herbicides, pesticides, and fertilizers used on 
> turfgrass lawns, and oil/fluids leaking from thousands of additional cars 
> will wreak havoc on our groundwater. Because of the immense footprint of this 
> development, open ground will be significantly diminished; stormwater runoff 
> will increase from the many impervious surfaces (roads, driveways, and 
> rooftops). As a result, downstream flooding of Ho

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: TCEQ Confirmation: Your public comment on Permit Number WQ0015835001 was received.

[Nancy]

> 
> Excellent comment. Jay. Thanks. 
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Re: [Texascavers] MAP SALOON ENTRIES

[Jacqueline Thomas]

Thank you for making my evening! 

J. LaRue Thomas
jlrtho...@verizon.net


> On Mar 19, 2020, at 5:25 PM, Carol W Russell  wrote:
> 
> If there's a Map Saloon, these are perfect.But also for the Salon
> 
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 4:03 PM Nancy Weaver  wrote:
> first place! Nancy
> 
> > On Mar 19, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Charlie Loving
> >  > Hole.jpg> > WALKER.jpg>___
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> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] MAP SALOON ENTRIES

[Carol W Russell]

If there's a Map Saloon, these are perfect.But also for the Salon

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 4:03 PM Nancy Weaver  wrote:

> first place! Nancy
>
> > On Mar 19, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Charles Loving 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Charlie Loving
> >  Hole.jpg> WALKER.jpg>___
> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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Re: [Texascavers] MAP SALOON ENTRIES

[Nancy Weaver]

first place! Nancy

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
>  Hole.jpg> WALKER.jpg>___
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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Re: [Texascavers] If you care about Honey Creek Cave, please send your comments today or tomorrow and again before the rescheduled public meeting

[Pete Lindsley]

Try a different browser or dump your browser cache and try again.

 - Pete

On Mar 18, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Carol W Russell  wrote:

using the link, Im putting it in as the permit no. and hitting the next 
button--same result.C

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 4:55 PM Nancy Weaver mailto:nan...@prismnet.com>> wrote:
Carol - I just used link and WQ0015835001  and it came up just fine.  maybe try 
again.  Nancy


> I tried to use the no. and online link you gave and was told "number not 
> found."
> 
> Carol
> 
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:06 PM Bill Steele  > wrote:
> Hello Texas cavers,
> 
> Since most of you are staying home more than usual, please help with this. 
> 
> The public meeting scheduled for March  <>19 has been cancelled by TCEQ. 
> 
> We have been informed that you may send your comments in by the first 
> deadline, tomorrow, March 19, and a second time by the rescheduled hearing 
> date which has not been announced yet. Please send your comments in today or 
> at the latest tomorrow and include a request to submit additional comments at 
> a later date.
> 
> You may submit your comments online at 
> https://www14.tceq.texas.gov/epic/eComment/  
> by entering WQ0015835001. 
> 
> Perhaps you can draw information from what Andy Grubbs sent out yesterday 
> (see below) or what Kurt Menking sent out on Texascavers.com 
>  on Friday, March 13. 
> 
> Thanks for helping,
> 
> Bill Steele 
> speleoste...@aol.com 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 17, 2020, at 5:45 PM, grub...@centurytel.net 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> What follows is part of a email I sent about the Honey Creek ranch proposal. 
>> ( not to TCEQ)  I design septic systems as part of my work.  A lot of what 
>> is being proposed does not come up to the state standards that you'd have to 
>> follow if you were building a system for  a single family home, much less 
>> the standards some counties have and the rules governing development on the 
>> Edwards Aquifer recharge zone.   
>> 
>> One thing I'd like to point out is that there is a state requirement for a 
>> "reserve area" when using soils asorbsion types of systems.  You must have 
>> an area you reserve that is the size of your drainfield where you will 
>> construct a new field when the old one is used to the point where it no 
>> longer functions.  The state recognizes the fact that soil systems do not 
>> have infinite life and must be replaced.  I think that there are also 
>> requirements for soil tests on the type system being proposed that are very 
>> extensive.  much more than we do for individual home systems.  I will see if 
>> I can find chapter and page  for those regs for you  
>> 
>>   Since these homes are not going to be small  less than 2500 sq ft the 
>> state water use is 300 gallons per day / house; less than 2500 sq ft is 240 
>> GPD  more than 3500 sq ft 360 GPD
>> 
>> State law limits the amount of effluent to 5000 GPD/ acre.  This is 
>> proposing 4562 gallons / acre for their lowballed figures.  0.105 GPD/sq ft  
>> which is slightly more than what is allowed on clay soils  0.1000 GPD/sq ft
>> 
>> 9 lots per acre is 4840 sq ft per lot.  That would result in something over 
>> 80% impervious cover per lot, without counting the unused green space of the 
>> entire development as part of the amount.  effective IC not total IC for the 
>> development
>> 
>> 
>> I also believe that lift station reserve capacity should be addressed.  No 
>> state regulations on this that I know of.  But county rules for septic 
>> systems that have pumps require the pump compartment to be big enough that 
>> there is sufficient capacity so that there is space for a days flow between 
>> pump- on and the alarm, and another days flow between the alarm level and 
>> the top of the tank.  the alarm going off if water fills up past the daily 
>> design flow and the pump didnt come on.  This means that if there is a 
>> problem you have a full day to get it fixed before you over flow or shut 
>> down the water in the house.  Lift stations are the weak link in the chain 
>> for wastewater systems.  If they had a containment pond, a lined containment 
>> pond, then we would have way less disasters where the station failed and 
>> unabated flow pours into a creek or on to the land.  Got a lift station that 
>> pumps 20,000 gallons per day.  You'd need about 27,000 cubic feet of storage 
>> for 1 days flow  54,000 if you followed the day to find out and day to fix 
>> it rule.  Do any water systems have provision to cut off supply flows during 
>> pump station outages ? That's a question I dont know ( but I sort of doubt 
>> it)
>> 
>> AGGrubbsi
>> 
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com 
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com  | Archives: 
>

Re: [Texascavers] If you care about Honey Creek Cave, please send your comments today or tomorrow and again before the rescheduled public meeting

[Carol W Russell]

using the link, Im putting it in as the permit no. and hitting the next
button--same result.C

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 4:55 PM Nancy Weaver  wrote:

> Carol - I just used link and *WQ0015835001  and it came up just fine.
>  maybe try again.  Nancy*
>
>
> I tried to use the no. and online link you gave and was told "number not
> found."
>
> Carol
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:06 PM Bill Steele 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Texas cavers,
>>
>> Since most of you are staying home more than usual, please help with
>> this.
>>
>> *The public meeting scheduled for March 19 has been cancelled by TCEQ.*
>>
>> We have been informed that you may send your comments in by the first
>> deadline, tomorrow, March 19, and a second time by the rescheduled hearing
>> date which has not been announced yet. Please send your comments in today
>> or at the latest tomorrow and include a request to submit additional
>> comments at a later date.
>>
>> *You may submit your comments online at *
>> https://www14.tceq.texas.gov/epic/eComment/
>> *by entering WQ0015835001. *
>>
>> *Perhaps you can draw information from what Andy Grubbs sent out
>> yesterday (see below) or what Kurt Menking sent out on Texascavers.com
>>  on Friday, March 13. *
>>
>> *Thanks for helping,*
>>
>> *Bill Steele *
>> *speleoste...@aol.com *
>>
>>
>> On Mar 17, 2020, at 5:45 PM, grub...@centurytel.net wrote:
>>
>> 
>> What follows is part of a email I sent about the Honey Creek ranch
>> proposal. ( not to TCEQ)  I design septic systems as part of my work.  A
>> lot of what is being proposed does not come up to the state standards that
>> you'd have to follow if you were building a system for  a single family
>> home, much less the standards some counties have and the rules governing
>> development on the Edwards Aquifer recharge zone.
>>
>> One thing I'd like to point out is that there is a state requirement for
>> a "reserve area" when using soils asorbsion types of systems.  You must
>> have an area you reserve that is the size of your drainfield where you will
>> construct a new field when the old one is used to the point where it no
>> longer functions.  The state recognizes the fact that soil systems do not
>> have infinite life and must be replaced.  I think that there are also
>> requirements for soil tests on the type system being proposed that are very
>> extensive.  much more than we do for individual home systems.  I will see
>> if I can find chapter and page  for those regs for you
>>
>>   Since these homes are not going to be small  less than 2500 sq ft the
>> state water use is 300 gallons per day / house; less than 2500 sq ft is 240
>> GPD  more than 3500 sq ft 360 GPD
>>
>> State law limits the amount of effluent to 5000 GPD/ acre.  This is
>> proposing 4562 gallons / acre for their lowballed figures.  0.105 GPD/sq
>> ft  which is slightly more than what is allowed on clay soils  0.1000
>> GPD/sq ft
>>
>> 9 lots per acre is 4840 sq ft per lot.  That would result in something
>> over 80% impervious cover per lot, without counting the unused green space
>> of the entire development as part of the amount.  effective IC not total IC
>> for the development
>>
>>
>> I also believe that lift station reserve capacity should be addressed.
>> No state regulations on this that I know of.  But county rules for septic
>> systems that have pumps require the pump compartment to be big enough that
>> there is sufficient capacity so that there is space for a days flow between
>> pump- on and the alarm, and another days flow between the alarm level and
>> the top of the tank.  the alarm going off if water fills up past the daily
>> design flow and the pump didnt come on.  This means that if there is a
>> problem you have a full day to get it fixed before you over flow or shut
>> down the water in the house.  Lift stations are the weak link in the chain
>> for wastewater systems.  If they had a containment pond, a lined
>> containment pond, then we would have way less disasters where the station
>> failed and unabated flow pours into a creek or on to the land.  Got a lift
>> station that pumps 20,000 gallons per day.  You'd need about 27,000 cubic
>> feet of storage for 1 days flow  54,000 if you followed the day to find out
>> and day to fix it rule.  Do any water systems have provision to cut off
>> supply flows during pump station outages ? That's a question I dont know (
>> but I sort of doubt it)
>>
>> AGGrubbsi
>>
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texa

Re: [Texascavers] If you care about Honey Creek Cave, please send your comments today or tomorrow and again before the rescheduled public meeting

[Nancy Weaver]

Carol - I just used link and WQ0015835001  and it came up just fine.  maybe try 
again.  Nancy


> I tried to use the no. and online link you gave and was told "number not 
> found."
> 
> Carol
> 
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:06 PM Bill Steele  > wrote:
> Hello Texas cavers,
> 
> Since most of you are staying home more than usual, please help with this. 
> 
> The public meeting scheduled for March  <>19 has been cancelled by TCEQ. 
> 
> We have been informed that you may send your comments in by the first 
> deadline, tomorrow, March 19, and a second time by the rescheduled hearing 
> date which has not been announced yet. Please send your comments in today or 
> at the latest tomorrow and include a request to submit additional comments at 
> a later date.
> 
> You may submit your comments online at 
> https://www14.tceq.texas.gov/epic/eComment/  
> by entering WQ0015835001. 
> 
> Perhaps you can draw information from what Andy Grubbs sent out yesterday 
> (see below) or what Kurt Menking sent out on Texascavers.com on Friday, March 
> 13. 
> 
> Thanks for helping,
> 
> Bill Steele 
> speleoste...@aol.com 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 17, 2020, at 5:45 PM, grub...@centurytel.net 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> What follows is part of a email I sent about the Honey Creek ranch proposal. 
>> ( not to TCEQ)  I design septic systems as part of my work.  A lot of what 
>> is being proposed does not come up to the state standards that you'd have to 
>> follow if you were building a system for  a single family home, much less 
>> the standards some counties have and the rules governing development on the 
>> Edwards Aquifer recharge zone.   
>> 
>> One thing I'd like to point out is that there is a state requirement for a 
>> "reserve area" when using soils asorbsion types of systems.  You must have 
>> an area you reserve that is the size of your drainfield where you will 
>> construct a new field when the old one is used to the point where it no 
>> longer functions.  The state recognizes the fact that soil systems do not 
>> have infinite life and must be replaced.  I think that there are also 
>> requirements for soil tests on the type system being proposed that are very 
>> extensive.  much more than we do for individual home systems.  I will see if 
>> I can find chapter and page  for those regs for you  
>> 
>>   Since these homes are not going to be small  less than 2500 sq ft the 
>> state water use is 300 gallons per day / house; less than 2500 sq ft is 240 
>> GPD  more than 3500 sq ft 360 GPD
>> 
>> State law limits the amount of effluent to 5000 GPD/ acre.  This is 
>> proposing 4562 gallons / acre for their lowballed figures.  0.105 GPD/sq ft  
>> which is slightly more than what is allowed on clay soils  0.1000 GPD/sq ft
>> 
>> 9 lots per acre is 4840 sq ft per lot.  That would result in something over 
>> 80% impervious cover per lot, without counting the unused green space of the 
>> entire development as part of the amount.  effective IC not total IC for the 
>> development
>> 
>> 
>> I also believe that lift station reserve capacity should be addressed.  No 
>> state regulations on this that I know of.  But county rules for septic 
>> systems that have pumps require the pump compartment to be big enough that 
>> there is sufficient capacity so that there is space for a days flow between 
>> pump- on and the alarm, and another days flow between the alarm level and 
>> the top of the tank.  the alarm going off if water fills up past the daily 
>> design flow and the pump didnt come on.  This means that if there is a 
>> problem you have a full day to get it fixed before you over flow or shut 
>> down the water in the house.  Lift stations are the weak link in the chain 
>> for wastewater systems.  If they had a containment pond, a lined containment 
>> pond, then we would have way less disasters where the station failed and 
>> unabated flow pours into a creek or on to the land.  Got a lift station that 
>> pumps 20,000 gallons per day.  You'd need about 27,000 cubic feet of storage 
>> for 1 days flow  54,000 if you followed the day to find out and day to fix 
>> it rule.  Do any water systems have provision to cut off supply flows during 
>> pump station outages ? That's a question I dont know ( but I sort of doubt 
>> it)
>> 
>> AGGrubbsi
>> 
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com 
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com  | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ 
>> 
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers 
>> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com 

Re: [Texascavers] If you care about Honey Creek Cave, please send your comments today or tomorrow and again before the rescheduled public meeting

[Carol W Russell]

I tried to use the no. and online link you gave and was told "number not
found."

Carol

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:06 PM Bill Steele 
wrote:

> Hello Texas cavers,
>
> Since most of you are staying home more than usual, please help with this.
>
> *The public meeting scheduled for March 19 has been cancelled by TCEQ.*
>
> We have been informed that you may send your comments in by the first
> deadline, tomorrow, March 19, and a second time by the rescheduled hearing
> date which has not been announced yet. Please send your comments in today
> or at the latest tomorrow and include a request to submit additional
> comments at a later date.
>
> *You may submit your comments online at *
> https://www14.tceq.texas.gov/epic/eComment/
> *by entering WQ0015835001. *
>
> *Perhaps you can draw information from what Andy Grubbs sent out yesterday
> (see below) or what Kurt Menking sent out on Texascavers.com on Friday,
> March 13. *
>
> *Thanks for helping,*
>
> *Bill Steele *
> *speleoste...@aol.com *
>
>
> On Mar 17, 2020, at 5:45 PM, grub...@centurytel.net wrote:
>
> 
> What follows is part of a email I sent about the Honey Creek ranch
> proposal. ( not to TCEQ)  I design septic systems as part of my work.  A
> lot of what is being proposed does not come up to the state standards that
> you'd have to follow if you were building a system for  a single family
> home, much less the standards some counties have and the rules governing
> development on the Edwards Aquifer recharge zone.
>
> One thing I'd like to point out is that there is a state requirement for a
> "reserve area" when using soils asorbsion types of systems.  You must have
> an area you reserve that is the size of your drainfield where you will
> construct a new field when the old one is used to the point where it no
> longer functions.  The state recognizes the fact that soil systems do not
> have infinite life and must be replaced.  I think that there are also
> requirements for soil tests on the type system being proposed that are very
> extensive.  much more than we do for individual home systems.  I will see
> if I can find chapter and page  for those regs for you
>
>   Since these homes are not going to be small  less than 2500 sq ft the
> state water use is 300 gallons per day / house; less than 2500 sq ft is 240
> GPD  more than 3500 sq ft 360 GPD
>
> State law limits the amount of effluent to 5000 GPD/ acre.  This is
> proposing 4562 gallons / acre for their lowballed figures.  0.105 GPD/sq
> ft  which is slightly more than what is allowed on clay soils  0.1000
> GPD/sq ft
>
> 9 lots per acre is 4840 sq ft per lot.  That would result in something
> over 80% impervious cover per lot, without counting the unused green space
> of the entire development as part of the amount.  effective IC not total IC
> for the development
>
>
> I also believe that lift station reserve capacity should be addressed.  No
> state regulations on this that I know of.  But county rules for septic
> systems that have pumps require the pump compartment to be big enough that
> there is sufficient capacity so that there is space for a days flow between
> pump- on and the alarm, and another days flow between the alarm level and
> the top of the tank.  the alarm going off if water fills up past the daily
> design flow and the pump didnt come on.  This means that if there is a
> problem you have a full day to get it fixed before you over flow or shut
> down the water in the house.  Lift stations are the weak link in the chain
> for wastewater systems.  If they had a containment pond, a lined
> containment pond, then we would have way less disasters where the station
> failed and unabated flow pours into a creek or on to the land.  Got a lift
> station that pumps 20,000 gallons per day.  You'd need about 27,000 cubic
> feet of storage for 1 days flow  54,000 if you followed the day to find out
> and day to fix it rule.  Do any water systems have provision to cut off
> supply flows during pump station outages ? That's a question I dont know (
> but I sort of doubt it)
>
> AGGrubbsi
>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
> ___
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> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Additions to AMCS maps page

[William R. Elliott]

OK, thanks Mark. I got another comment from an experienced caver who
thought maybe the Puebla cavers customarily name a cave "sistema" if there
are even just two small caves connected to each other. A lot of the Puebla
work has been done by Mexican and European expeditions.

In the future I'll try a numerical way of comparing states, and that is to
count the number or a distribution of large caves above an arbitrary size.
Maybe start at 3 km or 5 km long, and just go with that.

With these tables we also have the opportunity to sum up the mapped footage
of the caves in a state. I put in a "Best Map" field on most states to
count the one best example of each mapped cave, since the large caves
usually have multiple versions through the years. This way I can get a
correct sum. Usually the best map is the latest or longest one. There are
many maps of Sistema Huautla, some of which are only for a portion of the
system, so one must be selective.

One could also do this pretty well from your latest long and deep list.

Thanks,

*William R. (Bill) Elliott*

*speodes...@gmail.com *

573-291-5093 cell


On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 9:36 AM Mark Minton  wrote:

> Bill,
>
>
>
> Thanks for all your work on the AMCS web site and especially the maps. I
> can think of a couple of reasons why Puebla has more systems reported than
> Oaxaca. One is that cavers have been active in Oaxaca over a longer period
> of time, Huautla being one of the first big systems to have been visited.
> Effort there has also been sustained. That means more time for connections
> to be made. Another is that there are probably more major caving areas in
> Puebla than Oaxaca, which increases the likelihood of finding big systems.
> Huautla and related areas like Cerro Rábon and even Cheve are quite far
> north in Oaxaca and close to the border with Puebla. There are caves in
> other parts of Oaxaca to be sure, but most of the big ones are up north in
> a relatively small part of the state.
>
>
>
> My two cents worth.
>
> Mark Minton
>
>
>
> *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On
> Behalf Of *William R. Elliott
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 17, 2020 11:53 AM
> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] Additions to AMCS maps page
>
>
>
> The AMCS (Association for Mexican Cave Studies) has added more maps to its
> maps page. See http://www.mexicancaves.org/maps/
>
>
>
> I added the states of *Oaxaca* (543 maps) and *Puebla* (266 maps), which
> include recent maps from the NSS News and AMCS Activities Newsletter
> (through no. 38, 2015). Maps in numbers 39-41 (2016-2018), are noted, but I
> do not have the pdfs for them yet. At least you can now look up the map
> pages in those last three printed newsletters for the areas you are
> interested in.
>
>
>
> Many favorite "cave areas" are included in the tables: Huautla, Cheve,
> Cerro Rabón, Cerro Verde, Sierra Negra, Cuetzalan,
> Atepataco (Huetamalco) and others.
>
>
>
> These html pages were generated in Excel. One can save a page on your
> drive and open it in Excel, then save it as an .xlsx file. Then you can add
> filters if you want to narrow down the view to one municipio or area, or
> whatever field you like. These also can be used in LibreOffice Calc or
> other spreadsheet programs.
>
>
>
> Oaxaca has 8 big "sistemas" (cave systems), but Puebla has 25. Why is
> that? Either it's the steep karst terrain causing more cave integration in
> some areas, or maybe a caver habit of naming sistemas in some areas. Maybe
> some experienced Oaxaca and Puebla cavers can comment on this.
>
>
>
> Note that your browser tab may have to be refreshed or reloaded to see a
> new page version.
>
>
>
> Anyway, have fun looking at the maps!
>
>
>
> *William R. (Bill) Elliott*
>
> *speodes...@gmail.com *
>
> 573-291-5093 cell
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> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Additions to AMCS maps page

[Mark Minton]

Bill,

 

Thanks for all your work on the AMCS web site and especially the maps. I can 
think of a couple of reasons why Puebla has more systems reported than Oaxaca. 
One is that cavers have been active in Oaxaca over a longer period of time, 
Huautla being one of the first big systems to have been visited. Effort there 
has also been sustained. That means more time for connections to be made. 
Another is that there are probably more major caving areas in Puebla than 
Oaxaca, which increases the likelihood of finding big systems. Huautla and 
related areas like Cerro Rábon and even Cheve are quite far north in Oaxaca and 
close to the border with Puebla. There are caves in other parts of Oaxaca to be 
sure, but most of the big ones are up north in a relatively small part of the 
state.

 

My two cents worth.

Mark Minton

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
William R. Elliott
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 11:53 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Additions to AMCS maps page

 

The AMCS (Association for Mexican Cave Studies) has added more maps to its maps 
page. See http://www.mexicancaves.org/maps/ 

 

I added the states of Oaxaca (543 maps) and Puebla (266 maps), which include 
recent maps from the NSS News and AMCS Activities Newsletter (through no. 38, 
2015). Maps in numbers 39-41 (2016-2018), are noted, but I do not have the pdfs 
for them yet. At least you can now look up the map pages in those last three 
printed newsletters for the areas you are interested in. 

 

Many favorite "cave areas" are included in the tables: Huautla, Cheve, Cerro 
Rabón, Cerro Verde, Sierra Negra, Cuetzalan, Atepataco (Huetamalco) and others. 

 

These html pages were generated in Excel. One can save a page on your drive and 
open it in Excel, then save it as an .xlsx file. Then you can add filters if 
you want to narrow down the view to one municipio or area, or whatever field 
you like. These also can be used in LibreOffice Calc or other spreadsheet 
programs.

 

Oaxaca has 8 big "sistemas" (cave systems), but Puebla has 25. Why is that? 
Either it's the steep karst terrain causing more cave integration in some 
areas, or maybe a caver habit of naming sistemas in some areas. Maybe some 
experienced Oaxaca and Puebla cavers can comment on this. 

 

Note that your browser tab may have to be refreshed or reloaded to see a new 
page version. 

 

Anyway, have fun looking at the maps!

 

William R. (Bill) Elliott

speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell

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Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: TCEQ Public Meeting on Honey Creek permit CANCELLED

[Jill Orr]

Hi all,
I'd like to point out that the links Bill and Annalisa Peace provided are
an excellent and easy way to show caver's support;  It took me 15 minutes
to craft and send my message.

Please take the time to support the ban and send your comments.

Thanks Bill !

Jill

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 2:33 PM Bill Steele 
wrote:

> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From:* Annalisa Peace 
> *Date:* March 17, 2020 at 2:26:06 PM CDT
> *To:* cwilliamste...@gmail.com
> *Subject:* *TCEQ Public Meeting on Honey Creek permit CANCELLED*
> *Reply-To:* annal...@aquiferalliance.org
>
> 
>
> Dear Friends of Honey Creek,
>
> *The public meeting scheduled for March 19th has been cancelled by TCEQ.*
> I called to ask whether the deadline for comments was still on the 19th
> and was told that TCEQ rules allow for comments to be submitted until the
> date of the rescheduled meeting.  I was also told that it wouldn’t hurt for
> folks to get comments in by the 19th and include the request to submit
> additional comments at a later date.
>
> *You may submit your comments on-line
> 
> by entering WQ0015835001. Or you can mail comments to TCEQ Office of the
> Chief Clerk, MC-105, PO Box 13087, Austin, Texas 78711-3087. *
>
> You may request a contested case hearing in you comments.  To do so, you
> must include your name, address, applicants name (Silesia Properties LP)
> and Proposed Permit # WQ0015835001, the location and distance of your
> property/activities relative to the proposed facility, a specific
> description of how you would be adversely affected by the facility in a way
> not common to the general public, a list of all disputed issues of the fact
> that you submit during the comment period, and the statement “I request a
> contested case hearing”.
>
> You can see the Affected Landowner Map here
> 
> and the Groundwater Quality Report here
> .
> You can see more information here
> 
> under “Honey Creek Waste Water Permit”.  We will be posting additional
> comments from GEAA in the near future.
>
> Fundraising to cover legal costs will continue. We still need to raise
> $7,455 to secure a matching donation of $15,000.  You can donate on-line
> 
> or send us a check to: GEAA, Po Box 15618, San Antonio, Texas 78212.  Be
> sure to note that the donation is for Honey Creek.
>
> We will let you know when the TCEQ Public Meeting is rescheduled.  So,
> stay tuned. If we can muster a great turnout and secure the same caliber of
> impressive comments opposing this new permit at the next Public Meeting, I
> believe we have a fighting chance at securing meaningful permanent
> protections for Honey Creek.
>
> Please forward this message to all who might be interested in protecting a
> Texas treasure.
>
> Thank you and, stay safe and healthy!
>
> Annalisa Peace
>
> Executive Director
> Greater Edwards Aquifer Alliance
>
> *You can keep up with the latest news and post on the Save Honey Creek
> Facebook Page
> *
>
> *You can always keep up with interesting water news on * *GEAA's Face
> Book page *
> 
>
>
> *Prior to forwarding this message strip off unsubscribe option.*
>
>
> Manage Your Subscription
> 
> This message was sent to *cwilliamste...@gmail.com
> * from *annal...@aquiferalliance.org
> *
>
> Annalisa Peace
> Greater Edwards Aquifer Alliance
> 1809 Blanco Road
> San Antonio, Tx 78212
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> [image: iContact - Try it for FREE]
> 
>
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Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Map Salon

[Leia L. Hill]

I hope we don’t fully cancel the convention. It’s nice to see ppl. Hopefully we 
could reschedule it for a little later on in the summer or year? Hopefully this 
virus is over by then. I hope and pray each one of you is safe, healthy and 
happy! Keep me updated on what TSA decides to do. 

Be safe y’all!

Leia 


Leia L. Hill
830-660-5884
llhill1...@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2020, at 10:44 PM, Marvin Miller  wrote:
> 
> 
> Cavers,
> I will be coordinating the map salon at the spring convention. The TSS is 
> providing prizes for the salon this year and they will be worth some effort. 
> The convention is still several months away so get out those old notes that 
> have been gathering dust in the drawer and start drafting. The salon rules 
> can be accessed from the TSA website convention page, or follow this link: 
> https://cavetexas.org/mapsalon. Be sure to check your map against the judging 
> criteria to confirm that the map has all the necessary elements: 
> http://www.cavetexas.org/sites/default/files/mapJudging.pdf. 
> I'll see you at convention.
> Marvin Miller
> ___
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Map Salon

[Kris Pena]

Correct, the current CDC recommendation is to cancel or postpone in-person
events of 50 or more people for the next 8 weeks. That recommendation does
apply to TSA Spring Convention and we intend to go to whatever extent
necessary to keep our Texas caver family safe and healthy.

The TSA board is currently looking into all of our alternative options and
should have an update soon.

Kris
TSA Vice-Chair

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 4:08 PM Diana Tomchick <
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu> wrote:

> Actually, it’s now 10 people or less. Very soon we will be under complete
> lockdown (that’s my guess, take it for what it’s worth).
>
> Diana
>
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> UT Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
>
> On Mar 16, 2020, at 3:55 PM, Denise P  wrote:
>
>
> EXTERNAL MAIL
>
> The CDC is recommending no gatherings of 50 or more people for the next 2
> months. Will Spring Convention be cancelled?
>
>
> https://www.cdc.gov/
> 
> coronavirus
> 
> /2019-
> 
> ncov
> 
> /community/large-events/mass-gatherings-ready-for-covid-19.html
> 
>
> Get Outlook for Android 
>
> --
> *From:* Texascavers  on behalf of
> Marvin Miller 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 10:44:42 PM
> *To:* Texascavers@texascavers.com 
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Map Salon
>
> Cavers,
> I will be coordinating the map salon at the spring convention. The TSS is
> providing prizes for the salon this year and they will be worth some
> effort. The convention is still several months away so get out those old
> notes that have been gathering dust in the drawer and start drafting. The
> salon rules can be accessed from the TSA website convention page, or follow
> this link: https://cavetexas.org/mapsalon. Be sure to check your map
> against the judging criteria to confirm that the map has all the necessary
> elements: http://www.cavetexas.org/sites/default/files/mapJudging.pdf.
> I'll see you at convention.
> Marvin Miller
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside UTSW. Please be cautious of
> links or attachments, and validate the sender's email address before
> replying.
>
> ___
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
> --
>
> UT Southwestern
>
> Medical Center
>
> The future of medicine, today.
> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Map Salon

[Diana Tomchick]

Actually, it’s now 10 people or less. Very soon we will be under complete 
lockdown (that’s my guess, take it for what it’s worth).

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
UT Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

On Mar 16, 2020, at 3:55 PM, Denise P 
mailto:pepabe...@hotmail.com>> wrote:


EXTERNAL MAIL

The CDC is recommending no gatherings of 50 or more people for the next 2 
months. Will Spring Convention be cancelled?


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/large-events/mass-gatherings-ready-for-covid-19.html

Get Outlook for Android


From: Texascavers 
mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com>>
 on behalf of Marvin Miller 
mailto:cave0mil...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 10:44:42 PM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com 
mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com>>
Subject: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Map Salon

Cavers,
I will be coordinating the map salon at the spring convention. The TSS is 
providing prizes for the salon this year and they will be worth some effort. 
The convention is still several months away so get out those old notes that 
have been gathering dust in the drawer and start drafting. The salon rules can 
be accessed from the TSA website convention page, or follow this link: 
https://cavetexas.org/mapsalon. Be sure to check your map against the judging 
criteria to confirm that the map has all the necessary elements: 
http://www.cavetexas.org/sites/default/files/mapJudging.pdf.
I'll see you at convention.
Marvin Miller

CAUTION: This email originated from outside UTSW. Please be cautious of links 
or attachments, and validate the sender's email address before replying.

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UT Southwestern


Medical Center



The future of medicine, today.

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Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Map Salon

[Denise P]

The CDC is recommending no gatherings of 50 or more people for the next 2 
months. Will Spring Convention be cancelled?


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/large-events/mass-gatherings-ready-for-covid-19.html

Get Outlook for Android


From: Texascavers  on behalf of Marvin 
Miller 
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 10:44:42 PM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Map Salon

Cavers,
I will be coordinating the map salon at the spring convention. The TSS is 
providing prizes for the salon this year and they will be worth some effort. 
The convention is still several months away so get out those old notes that 
have been gathering dust in the drawer and start drafting. The salon rules can 
be accessed from the TSA website convention page, or follow this link: 
https://cavetexas.org/mapsalon. Be sure to check your map against the judging 
criteria to confirm that the map has all the necessary elements: 
http://www.cavetexas.org/sites/default/files/mapJudging.pdf.
I'll see you at convention.
Marvin Miller
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Re: [Texascavers] Please help Honey Creek Cave...

[Logan]

Kurt, thanks for the alert. I will forward it to non-caver friends who 
will want to know and are conservation activists. Please send the best 
links you know that will describe the watershed and the cave, with maps 
and photos if possible.


Thanks,
Logan

On 3/13/2020 7:13 PM, Kurt Menking wrote:
As many of you know a development is planned at the top of the Honey 
Creek watershed. They plan to drip / inject up to 360,000 gallons per 
day of treated wastewater into the karst terrain above the nearby 
Honey Creek Cave. Their goal is to build 1800 homes which would also 
create an enormous amount of storm runoff which would carry many 
contaminants including much of their drip wastewater into Honey Creek 
and ultimately the Guadalupe river. This would seriously impact TPWD 
conservation lands and the Guadalupe State Park.


The owner of Honey Creek Cave is mortified by this issue.  She is 
hopefull that the cavers who have enjoyed HC Cave in the past, will 
show up March 19 to show and voice there concern over this issue.


If 50 people show up to this meeting, TCEQ will approve the permit and 
we'll all have to live with the consequences.  If 300 people show up 
and or comment, TCEQ will spend months dealing with responses, and 
other red tape. That would also prompt the developer to back off his 
density and negotiate with the opposition.


If you can't make the meeting, then please make written comments to TCEQ.

Details on meeting, and TCEQ comments are below:

The TCEQ public meeting for the Texas Land Application (TLAP) Permit 
for Honey Creek Ranch (Proposed Permit Number WQ0015835001) is 
scheduled for March 19th at 7:pm at Rahee Bulverde Elementary School, 
1715 East Ammann Road, Bulverde, Texas.  Our baseline water quality 
studies of Honey Creek indicate that this is probably one of the 
cleanest natural streams in the whole state of Texas.  Given that the 
state has invested substantially in the Honey Creek State Natural Area 
to preserve this treasure, as well as in the Guadalupe State Park - 
the popular water recreational area immediately downstream, we feel 
that the risk of both waste water and stormwater pollution from a high 
density subdivision is something we should make every effort to 
mitigate. March 19th will be the last day to submit comments on this 
project. You may submit your comments on-line 
 by 
entering WQ0015835001. Or you can mail comments to TCEQ Office of the 
Chief Clerk, MC-105, PO Box 13087, Austin, Texas 78711-3087 - or in 
person during the comment period that follows the Question and Answer 
session on March 19. For more information click here 
 and 
scroll down to Honey Creek.


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Re: [Texascavers] Please help Honey Creek Cave...

[Kurt Menking]

Great idea! 😃

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 8:18 PM Jill Orr  wrote:

> HI Kurt, I've proposed to the LNU (Ladies Night Under) group that we make
> it an outing...!
>
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:14 PM Kurt Menking 
> wrote:
>
>> As many of you know a development is planned at the top of the Honey
>> Creek watershed. They plan to drip / inject up to 360,000 gallons per day
>> of treated wastewater into the karst terrain above the nearby Honey Creek
>> Cave. Their goal is to build 1800 homes which would also create an enormous
>> amount of storm runoff which would carry many contaminants including much
>> of their drip wastewater into Honey Creek and ultimately the Guadalupe
>> river. This would seriously impact TPWD conservation lands and the
>> Guadalupe State Park.
>>
>> The owner of Honey Creek Cave is mortified by this issue.  She is
>> hopefull that the cavers who have enjoyed HC Cave in the past, will show up
>> March 19 to show and voice there concern over this issue.
>>
>> If 50 people show up to this meeting, TCEQ will approve the permit and
>> we'll all have to live with the consequences.  If 300 people show up and or
>> comment, TCEQ will spend months dealing with responses, and other red tape.
>> That would also prompt the developer to back off his density and negotiate
>> with the opposition.
>>
>> If you can't make the meeting, then please make written comments to TCEQ.
>>
>> Details on meeting, and TCEQ comments are below:
>>
>> The TCEQ public meeting for the Texas Land Application (TLAP) Permit for
>> Honey Creek Ranch (Proposed Permit Number WQ0015835001) is scheduled
>> for March 19th at 7:pm at Rahee Bulverde Elementary School, 1715 East
>> Ammann Road, Bulverde, Texas.  Our baseline water quality studies of Honey
>> Creek indicate that this is probably one of the cleanest natural streams in
>> the whole state of Texas.  Given that the state has invested substantially
>> in the Honey Creek State Natural Area to preserve this treasure, as well as
>> in the Guadalupe State Park - the popular water recreational area
>> immediately downstream, we feel that the risk of both waste water and
>> stormwater pollution from a high density subdivision is something we should
>> make every effort to mitigate. March 19th will be the last day to submit
>> comments on this project. You may submit your comments on-line
>> 
>>  by
>> entering WQ0015835001. Or you can mail comments to TCEQ Office of the Chief
>> Clerk, MC-105, PO Box 13087, Austin, Texas 78711-3087 - or in person during
>> the comment period that follows the Question and Answer session on March
>> 19. For more information click here
>> 
>>  and
>> scroll down to Honey Creek.
>> ___
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>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
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Re: [Texascavers] Please help Honey Creek Cave...

[Jill Orr]

HI Kurt, I've proposed to the LNU (Ladies Night Under) group that we make
it an outing...!

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:14 PM Kurt Menking  wrote:

> As many of you know a development is planned at the top of the Honey Creek
> watershed. They plan to drip / inject up to 360,000 gallons per day of
> treated wastewater into the karst terrain above the nearby Honey Creek
> Cave. Their goal is to build 1800 homes which would also create an enormous
> amount of storm runoff which would carry many contaminants including much
> of their drip wastewater into Honey Creek and ultimately the Guadalupe
> river. This would seriously impact TPWD conservation lands and the
> Guadalupe State Park.
>
> The owner of Honey Creek Cave is mortified by this issue.  She is hopefull
> that the cavers who have enjoyed HC Cave in the past, will show up March 19
> to show and voice there concern over this issue.
>
> If 50 people show up to this meeting, TCEQ will approve the permit and
> we'll all have to live with the consequences.  If 300 people show up and or
> comment, TCEQ will spend months dealing with responses, and other red tape.
> That would also prompt the developer to back off his density and negotiate
> with the opposition.
>
> If you can't make the meeting, then please make written comments to TCEQ.
>
> Details on meeting, and TCEQ comments are below:
>
> The TCEQ public meeting for the Texas Land Application (TLAP) Permit for
> Honey Creek Ranch (Proposed Permit Number WQ0015835001) is scheduled
> for March 19th at 7:pm at Rahee Bulverde Elementary School, 1715 East
> Ammann Road, Bulverde, Texas.  Our baseline water quality studies of Honey
> Creek indicate that this is probably one of the cleanest natural streams in
> the whole state of Texas.  Given that the state has invested substantially
> in the Honey Creek State Natural Area to preserve this treasure, as well as
> in the Guadalupe State Park - the popular water recreational area
> immediately downstream, we feel that the risk of both waste water and
> stormwater pollution from a high density subdivision is something we should
> make every effort to mitigate. March 19th will be the last day to submit
> comments on this project. You may submit your comments on-line
> 
>  by
> entering WQ0015835001. Or you can mail comments to TCEQ Office of the Chief
> Clerk, MC-105, PO Box 13087, Austin, Texas 78711-3087 - or in person during
> the comment period that follows the Question and Answer session on March
> 19. For more information click here
> 
>  and
> scroll down to Honey Creek.
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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Re: [Texascavers] Please help Honey Creek Cave...

[jranzau]

TCMA will be there. 

Joe Ranzau
210.289.6839

> On Mar 13, 2020, at 7:31 PM, Bill Steele  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks, Kurt. I’m planning to do both: submit written comments to TCEQ and 
> show up on March 19. Even though it’s a 260
> mile drive for me, I love and care about Honey Creek Cave enough be there. 
> 
> Good caving,
> 
> Bill Steele 
> Irving, Texas 
> speleoste...@aol.com
> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 13, 2020, at 7:14 PM, Kurt Menking  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> As many of you know a development is planned at the top of the Honey Creek 
>> watershed. They plan to drip / inject up to 360,000 gallons per day of 
>> treated wastewater into the karst terrain above the nearby Honey Creek Cave. 
>> Their goal is to build 1800 homes which would also create an enormous amount 
>> of storm runoff which would carry many contaminants including much of their 
>> drip wastewater into Honey Creek and ultimately the Guadalupe river. This 
>> would seriously impact TPWD conservation lands and the Guadalupe State Park. 
>>  
>> 
>> The owner of Honey Creek Cave is mortified by this issue.  She is hopefull 
>> that the cavers who have enjoyed HC Cave in the past, will show up March 19 
>> to show and voice there concern over this issue.
>> 
>> If 50 people show up to this meeting, TCEQ will approve the permit and we'll 
>> all have to live with the consequences.  If 300 people show up and or 
>> comment, TCEQ will spend months dealing with responses, and other red tape. 
>> That would also prompt the developer to back off his density and negotiate 
>> with the opposition. 
>> 
>> If you can't make the meeting, then please make written comments to TCEQ.
>> 
>> Details on meeting, and TCEQ comments are below:
>> 
>> The TCEQ public meeting for the Texas Land Application (TLAP) Permit for 
>> Honey Creek Ranch (Proposed Permit Number WQ0015835001) is scheduled for 
>> March 19th at 7:pm at Rahee Bulverde Elementary School, 1715 East Ammann 
>> Road, Bulverde, Texas.  Our baseline water quality studies of Honey Creek 
>> indicate that this is probably one of the cleanest natural streams in the 
>> whole state of Texas.  Given that the state has invested substantially in 
>> the Honey Creek State Natural Area to preserve this treasure, as well as in 
>> the Guadalupe State Park - the popular water recreational area immediately 
>> downstream, we feel that the risk of both waste water and stormwater 
>> pollution from a high density subdivision is something we should make every 
>> effort to mitigate. March 19th will be the last day to submit comments on 
>> this project. You may submit your comments on-line by entering WQ0015835001. 
>> Or you can mail comments to TCEQ Office of the Chief Clerk, MC-105, PO Box 
>> 13087, Austin, Texas 78711-3087 - or in person during the comment period 
>> that follows the Question and Answer session on March 19. For more 
>> information click here and scroll down to Honey Creek.
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Re: [Texascavers] Please help Honey Creek Cave...

[Bill Steele]

Thanks, Kurt. I’m planning to do both: submit written comments to TCEQ and show 
up on March 19. Even though it’s a 260
mile drive for me, I love and care about Honey Creek Cave enough be there. 

Good caving,

Bill Steele 
Irving, Texas 
speleoste...@aol.com

> 
> On Mar 13, 2020, at 7:14 PM, Kurt Menking  wrote:
> 
> 
> As many of you know a development is planned at the top of the Honey Creek 
> watershed. They plan to drip / inject up to 360,000 gallons per day of 
> treated wastewater into the karst terrain above the nearby Honey Creek Cave. 
> Their goal is to build 1800 homes which would also create an enormous amount 
> of storm runoff which would carry many contaminants including much of their 
> drip wastewater into Honey Creek and ultimately the Guadalupe river. This 
> would seriously impact TPWD conservation lands and the Guadalupe State Park.  
> 
> The owner of Honey Creek Cave is mortified by this issue.  She is hopefull 
> that the cavers who have enjoyed HC Cave in the past, will show up March 19 
> to show and voice there concern over this issue.
> 
> If 50 people show up to this meeting, TCEQ will approve the permit and we'll 
> all have to live with the consequences.  If 300 people show up and or 
> comment, TCEQ will spend months dealing with responses, and other red tape. 
> That would also prompt the developer to back off his density and negotiate 
> with the opposition. 
> 
> If you can't make the meeting, then please make written comments to TCEQ.
> 
> Details on meeting, and TCEQ comments are below:
> 
> The TCEQ public meeting for the Texas Land Application (TLAP) Permit for 
> Honey Creek Ranch (Proposed Permit Number WQ0015835001) is scheduled for 
> March 19th at 7:pm at Rahee Bulverde Elementary School, 1715 East Ammann 
> Road, Bulverde, Texas.  Our baseline water quality studies of Honey Creek 
> indicate that this is probably one of the cleanest natural streams in the 
> whole state of Texas.  Given that the state has invested substantially in the 
> Honey Creek State Natural Area to preserve this treasure, as well as in the 
> Guadalupe State Park - the popular water recreational area immediately 
> downstream, we feel that the risk of both waste water and stormwater 
> pollution from a high density subdivision is something we should make every 
> effort to mitigate. March 19th will be the last day to submit comments on 
> this project. You may submit your comments on-line by entering WQ0015835001. 
> Or you can mail comments to TCEQ Office of the Chief Clerk, MC-105, PO Box 
> 13087, Austin, Texas 78711-3087 - or in person during the comment period that 
> follows the Question and Answer session on March 19. For more information 
> click here and scroll down to Honey Creek.
> ___
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> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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Re: [Texascavers] Pic

[Denise P]

Ok thanks. Prolly not

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>


From: Texascavers  on behalf of Chris 
Vreeland 
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 5:29:05 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Pic

If you need any 35 mm slides scanned, I still have two good 4000 dpi scanners 
going at my place.

On Mar 5, 2020, at 11:04 PM, Jocelyn Hooper  wrote:


Sigh.  I have been through everything Pete had on the computer.  I know he had 
some slides of this, but nothing transferred into digital.
I am not going to be able to come to your BD Happy Hour on the 22nd.  I had 
already promised Colin, Guin and Evan that I would babysit Wren so they, and 
Evan's new lady friend, Hanna (or Hannah?) can go to the movies.  I have a 
bottle of wine for you...will try to find a time to drop it by 🍷🎂
Jocie

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P 
mailto:pepabe...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be 
especially good if it had a person on rope

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Re: [Texascavers] Pic

[Jocelyn Hooper]

I apologize!
Jocie

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 12:48 PM Denise P  wrote:

> Sorry TC! This was obviously meant to be a private conversation!
>
> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
>
> --
> *From:* Texascavers  on behalf of
> Denise P 
> *Sent:* Friday, March 6, 2020 8:31:58 AM
> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Pic
>
> Ok. I should come visit you soon. Always love a visit to Stricklandia
>
>
> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
> --
> *From:* Texascavers  on behalf of
> Jocelyn Hooper 
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:04:27 PM
> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Pic
>
> Sigh.  I have been through everything Pete had on the computer.  I know he
> had some slides of this, but nothing transferred into digital.
> I am not going to be able to come to your BD Happy Hour on the 22nd.  I
> had already promised Colin, Guin and Evan that I would babysit Wren so
> they, and Evan's new lady friend, Hanna (or Hannah?) can go to the movies.
> I have a bottle of wine for you...will try to find a time to drop it by 🍷🎂
> Jocie
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P  wrote:
>
> Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be
> especially good if it had a person on rope
>
> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
> --
> *From:* Texascavers  on behalf of
> Jocelyn Hooper 
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:04:27 PM
> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Pic
>
> Sigh.  I have been through everything Pete had on the computer.  I know he
> had some slides of this, but nothing transferred into digital.
> I am not going to be able to come to your BD Happy Hour on the 22nd.  I
> had already promised Colin, Guin and Evan that I would babysit Wren so
> they, and Evan's new lady friend, Hanna (or Hannah?) can go to the movies.
> I have a bottle of wine for you...will try to find a time to drop it by 🍷🎂
> Jocie
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P  wrote:
>
> Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be
> especially good if it had a person on rope
>
> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Pic

[Chris Vreeland]

If you need any 35 mm slides scanned, I still have two good 4000 dpi scanners 
going at my place.

> On Mar 5, 2020, at 11:04 PM, Jocelyn Hooper  wrote:
> 
> 
> Sigh.  I have been through everything Pete had on the computer.  I know he 
> had some slides of this, but nothing transferred into digital.
> I am not going to be able to come to your BD Happy Hour on the 22nd.  I had 
> already promised Colin, Guin and Evan that I would babysit Wren so they, and 
> Evan's new lady friend, Hanna (or Hannah?) can go to the movies.  I have a 
> bottle of wine for you...will try to find a time to drop it by 🍷🎂
> Jocie
> 
>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P  wrote:
>> Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be 
>> especially good if it had a person on rope
>> 
>> Get Outlook for Android
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Re: [Texascavers] Pic

[James Jasek]

The person to contact for pictures of Golondrinas is Terry Raines Terry has 
everything you probably would ever be able to use

Sent from my iPhoneX

> On Mar 5, 2020, at 3:00 PM, Denise P  wrote:
> 


Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be 
especially good if it had a person on rope

Get Outlook for Android
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Re: [Texascavers] Pic

[Denise P]

Sorry TC! This was obviously meant to be a private conversation!

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>


From: Texascavers  on behalf of Denise P 

Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 8:31:58 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Pic

Ok. I should come visit you soon. Always love a visit to Stricklandia


Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

From: Texascavers  on behalf of Jocelyn 
Hooper 
Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:04:27 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Pic

Sigh.  I have been through everything Pete had on the computer.  I know he had 
some slides of this, but nothing transferred into digital.
I am not going to be able to come to your BD Happy Hour on the 22nd.  I had 
already promised Colin, Guin and Evan that I would babysit Wren so they, and 
Evan's new lady friend, Hanna (or Hannah?) can go to the movies.  I have a 
bottle of wine for you...will try to find a time to drop it by 🍷🎂
Jocie

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P 
mailto:pepabe...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be 
especially good if it had a person on rope

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
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From: Texascavers  on behalf of Jocelyn 
Hooper 
Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:04:27 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Pic

Sigh.  I have been through everything Pete had on the computer.  I know he had 
some slides of this, but nothing transferred into digital.
I am not going to be able to come to your BD Happy Hour on the 22nd.  I had 
already promised Colin, Guin and Evan that I would babysit Wren so they, and 
Evan's new lady friend, Hanna (or Hannah?) can go to the movies.  I have a 
bottle of wine for you...will try to find a time to drop it by 🍷🎂
Jocie

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P 
mailto:pepabe...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be 
especially good if it had a person on rope

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
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Re: [Texascavers] Pic

[Charles Loving]

I almost never go East, ever. I haven't been in Austin in six months. San
Antonio once for an interview on BBC but other than that I stay out of
urban blighted areas. I like my lake and the whole concept of no people to
make noise or bother me.

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 8:32 AM Denise P  wrote:

> Ok. I should come visit you soon. Always love a visit to Stricklandia
>
>
> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
> --
> *From:* Texascavers  on behalf of
> Jocelyn Hooper 
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:04:27 PM
> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Pic
>
> Sigh.  I have been through everything Pete had on the computer.  I know he
> had some slides of this, but nothing transferred into digital.
> I am not going to be able to come to your BD Happy Hour on the 22nd.  I
> had already promised Colin, Guin and Evan that I would babysit Wren so
> they, and Evan's new lady friend, Hanna (or Hannah?) can go to the movies.
> I have a bottle of wine for you...will try to find a time to drop it by 🍷🎂
> Jocie
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P  wrote:
>
> Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be
> especially good if it had a person on rope
>
> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
> --
> *From:* Texascavers  on behalf of
> Jocelyn Hooper 
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:04:27 PM
> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Pic
>
> Sigh.  I have been through everything Pete had on the computer.  I know he
> had some slides of this, but nothing transferred into digital.
> I am not going to be able to come to your BD Happy Hour on the 22nd.  I
> had already promised Colin, Guin and Evan that I would babysit Wren so
> they, and Evan's new lady friend, Hanna (or Hannah?) can go to the movies.
> I have a bottle of wine for you...will try to find a time to drop it by 🍷🎂
> Jocie
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P  wrote:
>
> Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be
> especially good if it had a person on rope
>
> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Pic

[Denise P]

Ok. I should come visit you soon. Always love a visit to Stricklandia


Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

From: Texascavers  on behalf of Jocelyn 
Hooper 
Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:04:27 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Pic

Sigh.  I have been through everything Pete had on the computer.  I know he had 
some slides of this, but nothing transferred into digital.
I am not going to be able to come to your BD Happy Hour on the 22nd.  I had 
already promised Colin, Guin and Evan that I would babysit Wren so they, and 
Evan's new lady friend, Hanna (or Hannah?) can go to the movies.  I have a 
bottle of wine for you...will try to find a time to drop it by 🍷🎂
Jocie

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P 
mailto:pepabe...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be 
especially good if it had a person on rope

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
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From: Texascavers  on behalf of Jocelyn 
Hooper 
Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:04:27 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Pic

Sigh.  I have been through everything Pete had on the computer.  I know he had 
some slides of this, but nothing transferred into digital.
I am not going to be able to come to your BD Happy Hour on the 22nd.  I had 
already promised Colin, Guin and Evan that I would babysit Wren so they, and 
Evan's new lady friend, Hanna (or Hannah?) can go to the movies.  I have a 
bottle of wine for you...will try to find a time to drop it by 🍷🎂
Jocie

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P 
mailto:pepabe...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be 
especially good if it had a person on rope

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
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Re: [Texascavers] Pic

[Charles Loving]

Have an ancient video of climbing out. from a trip I took there in 1995

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P  wrote:

> Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be
> especially good if it had a person on rope
>
> Get Outlook for Android 
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Pic

[Jocelyn Hooper]

Sigh.  I have been through everything Pete had on the computer.  I know he
had some slides of this, but nothing transferred into digital.
I am not going to be able to come to your BD Happy Hour on the 22nd.  I had
already promised Colin, Guin and Evan that I would babysit Wren so they,
and Evan's new lady friend, Hanna (or Hannah?) can go to the movies.  I
have a bottle of wine for you...will try to find a time to drop it by 🍷🎂
Jocie

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 3:00 PM Denise P  wrote:

> Anyone have a classic pic of Golondrinas they could email me? Would be
> especially good if it had a person on rope
>
> Get Outlook for Android 
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Cookeville, TN got hit by tornados

[Katherine Arens]

thank you . . .


On Mar 3, 2020, at 7:58 PM, Rusty Jones 
mailto:rusty3...@yahoo.com>> wrote:

So far, no reported caver deaths. My mother (caver in greater Cookeville are) 
has been updating me, but she hasn’t said any of the deaths were cavers or 
people she knew.
-Rusty Jones

On Mar 3, 2020, at 17:40, Katherine Arens 
mailto:ar...@austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:

 Anyone knows of the situation of local cavers?
katie

Katherine Arens, ProfessorPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 
471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802
  -. .-
 _..-'()`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
  ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
  ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
'.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
 |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
 ``  `V ' ' '




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This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.<<


Katherine Arens, ProfessorPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 
471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802
  -. .-
 _..-'()`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
  ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
  ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
'.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
 |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
 ``  `V ' ' '




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Re: [Texascavers] Cookeville, TN got hit by tornados

[Rusty Jones]

So far, no reported caver deaths. My mother (caver in greater Cookeville are) 
has been updating me, but she hasn’t said any of the deaths were cavers or 
people she knew.
-Rusty Jones

> On Mar 3, 2020, at 17:40, Katherine Arens  wrote:
> 
>  Anyone knows of the situation of local cavers?  
> katie
> 
> Katherine Arens, Professor
>Phones: Office(512) 232-6363
> ar...@austin.utexas.edu
>   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
> Dept. of Germanic Studies
> FAX (512) 471-4025
> 2505 University Ave, C3300 
> Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
> University of Texas at Austin
> Office:  Burdine 320
> Austin, TX  78712-1802
>   -. .-
>  _..-'()`-.._
>  ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
>   ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
> ./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
>   ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
>  /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
> '.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
> '.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
>  |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
> V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
>  ``  `V ' ' '
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] New edition of the Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[Pete Lindsley]

Thanks BIll!

 - Pete

On Mar 1, 2020, at 9:30 PM, William R. Elliott  wrote:

Dear cavers,

I just posted a new edition of the Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers. Go to 
http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm 

This edition adds 12 more obituaries and tributes:

2020 Michael J. Gibbons
2018 Tom White
2015 Mario Zabaleta
2014 Katherine Goodbar
2014 Ollene Bundrant
2012 Nick Arburn
2011 Richard M. Smith, Jr.
2005 Tom Bone
1996 Don Widener
1993 Luther Bundrant
1982 Tom Warden
1977 George W. Gray Jr. 


Thanks, 

William R. (Bill) Elliott

speodes...@gmail.com 
573-291-5093 cell

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Re: [Texascavers] Cave Blocks For Sale

[Carol W Russell]

Aack! What happened to the caves? Carol

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 7:43 AM Robert B  wrote:

> Good morning.
> I found this FB marketplace post amusing. Hope ya'll will too.
> If I had a need or such large stone blocks, I would prefer the rough
> natural look to the smooth cut surface.
>
> Cave Blocks For Sale
> "These are the very popular cave blocks made from the cave formations in
> central texas."
>
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1951451184998483/
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Cave Blocks For Sale

[Pete Lindsley]

James, at $95 and 2500 pounds each, all you need is an appropriate trailer that 
you can load and unload. Unfortunately it’s too far from Placitas for me to 
consider where I would even put one ;-)

 - Pete

On Feb 29, 2020, at 12:28 PM, James Jasek  wrote:

Jon I would love to have one of these Cave blogs how much do they cost and how 
would I get one to Waco

Sent from my iPhoneX

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 8:09 AM, John Brooks  
> wrote:
> 

The greater cost for those blocks is the transportation. We use those blocks 
for benches and landscape elements for projects in central Texas - and the cost 
is reasonable. But every time, we try to use those in North Texas, the 
transportation costs are excessive.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Robert B  wrote:
> 
> 
> Good morning.
> I found this FB marketplace post amusing. Hope ya'll will too.
> If I had a need or such large stone blocks, I would prefer the rough natural 
> look to the smooth cut surface.
> 
> Cave Blocks For Sale 
> "These are the very popular cave blocks made from the cave formations in 
> central texas."
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1951451184998483/ 
> 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Cave Blocks For Sale

[Vivian Loftin]

yeah, as a landscape architect I've built retaining walls, benches, outdoor 
classroom seating, and sound blocking walls with these commercially available 
"cave" rock. I think the texture comes from bedding plane seams, too planar for 
actual cave walls.
Vivian 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 1:29 PM, James Jasek  wrote:
> 
> Jon I would love to have one of these Cave blogs how much do they cost and 
> how would I get one to Waco
> 
> Sent from my iPhoneX
> 
>>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 8:09 AM, John Brooks  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>> The greater cost for those blocks is the transportation. We use those 
>> blocks for benches and landscape elements for projects in central Texas - 
>> and the cost is reasonable. But every time, we try to use those in North 
>> Texas, the transportation costs are excessive.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Robert B  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Good morning.
>> I found this FB marketplace post amusing. Hope ya'll will too.
>> If I had a need or such large stone blocks, I would prefer the rough natural 
>> look to the smooth cut surface.
>> 
>> Cave Blocks For Sale 
>> "These are the very popular cave blocks made from the cave formations in 
>> central texas."
>> 
>> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1951451184998483/
>> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Cave Blocks For Sale

[James Jasek]

Jon I would love to have one of these Cave blogs how much do they cost and how 
would I get one to Waco

Sent from my iPhoneX

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 8:09 AM, John Brooks  
> wrote:
> 

The greater cost for those blocks is the transportation. We use those blocks 
for benches and landscape elements for projects in central Texas - and the cost 
is reasonable. But every time, we try to use those in North Texas, the 
transportation costs are excessive.

Sent from my iPhone

>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Robert B  wrote:
>> 
> 
> Good morning.
> I found this FB marketplace post amusing. Hope ya'll will too.
> If I had a need or such large stone blocks, I would prefer the rough natural 
> look to the smooth cut surface.
> 
> Cave Blocks For Sale 
> "These are the very popular cave blocks made from the cave formations in 
> central texas."
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1951451184998483/
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Cave Blocks For Sale

[John Brooks]

The greater cost for those blocks is the transportation. We use those blocks 
for benches and landscape elements for projects in central Texas - and the cost 
is reasonable. But every time, we try to use those in North Texas, the 
transportation costs are excessive.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Robert B  wrote:
> 
> 
> Good morning.
> I found this FB marketplace post amusing. Hope ya'll will too.
> If I had a need or such large stone blocks, I would prefer the rough natural 
> look to the smooth cut surface.
> 
> Cave Blocks For Sale 
> "These are the very popular cave blocks made from the cave formations in 
> central texas."
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1951451184998483/
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] New Neanderthal bones found at famous Shanidar Cave | Human World | EarthSky

[Amy Jasek]

Oh wow thank you for sharing!  We have been fascinated by the idea of
ancient hominids burying their dead in caves after seeing that exhibit at
the Perot Museum (that one isn't Neanderthal but still)

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 7:45 AM PRESTON FORSYTHE 
wrote:

> https://earthsky.org/human-world/new_neanderthal_bones_shanidar_cave?utm_source=EarthSky+News&utm_campaign=a831d46b90-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_02_02_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c643945d79-a831d46b90-394693725
>
>
> Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] New Neanderthal bones found at famous Shanidar Cave | Human World | EarthSky

[Ron Ralph]

Thanks for that Preston.  I really am a fan of Shanidar Cave.
Ron

From: PRESTON FORSYTHE 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 7:45 AM
To: Cavers Texas 
Subject: [Texascavers] New Neanderthal bones found at famous Shanidar Cave | 
Human World | EarthSky

https://earthsky.org/human-world/new_neanderthal_bones_shanidar_cave?utm_source=EarthSky+News&utm_campaign=a831d46b90-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_02_02_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c643945d79-a831d46b90-394693725

Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android



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Re: [Texascavers] NASA / DARPA testing Autonomously navigated underground mapping bots

[Michael Harris]

DARPA was down at Robber Baron a few weeks ago. Our site was not picked.
They do some pretty impressive stuff.

Mike

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 8:31 AM Jon Cradit  wrote:

>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> DAY IN REVIEW
>
> [image: NASA JPL latest news release]
> 
>
> Robots Autonomously Navigate Underground in DARPA Challenge
> 
>
> Whether robots are exploring caves on other planets or disaster areas here
> on Earth, autonomy enables them to navigate extreme environments without
> human guidance or access to GPS.
>
> The Subterranean Challenge
> ,
> or SubT, is testing this kind of cutting-edge technology. Sponsored by the
> Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), the contest concluded
> its second circuit on Wednesday, Feb. 27. Taking first in the competition
> was CoSTAR
> ,
> a 12-robot, 60-person team led by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (there
> were also winners declared for a separate, virtual competition
> 
> ).
>
> SubT is divided into four circuits spread over three years. With each,
> teams program their robots to navigate a complex underground course. The
> first contest
> ,
> held last August, took place in a mine. For the most recent, called the Urban
> Circuit
> 

Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention - Call For Presenters

[Denise P]

The TCMA will have its annual fundraising auction at convention. It's usually 
on Saturday night after dinner. We are seeking fabulous donations for the 
auction! Please contact me off list if you have donations. And please show up 
for the auction with money to buy stuff! We need to pay for our new cave in 
Carta Valley! :)

The TCMA greatly appreciates the support of our lovely caving community!

Cheers,
Denise

Get Outlook for Android


From: Texascavers  on behalf of Kris Pena 

Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 7:44:41 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention - Call For Presenters

The TSA Spring Convention is happening May 1-3 this year and I'm putting out 
the call for presenters!

Have something you'd love to tell your fellow cavers about? Or maybe a workshop 
you've dreamed of giving? We're looking for people to give talks and lead 
workshops at this year's convention.

Do you think maybe you have an idea, but you're worried it's not relevant? 
Cavers have wide and varied interests. If it's something you think you might 
want to hear about, chances are your caver friends might too.

Here's some ideas of subjects that you might not have thought about:
* Trip Reports of adventures to new and interesting places
* Trip Reports of new adventures to places we all know and love
* Hydrology - water flowing through caves, water in the aquifer, water on the 
surface
* Geology - geology in caves, rock formations, the limestone of Texas
* Biology - animals that spend their whole lives in caves, about animals that 
make their homes in caves some of the time (raccoons, snakes, crickets), things 
living and growing in caves that aren't animals
* Bats - bat science, bat biology, diseases spread by bats, diseases not spread 
by bats, WNS updates, bat rescue, bat conservation
* Cave technology - lighting, headlights, survey instruments, environmental 
sensors
* Outdoor enthusiast topics - hiking, flora and fauna identification, animal 
tracks, things seen on hikes to caves
* Cave Rescue - cave rescue reports or topics related to rescue
* Vertical techniques
* Dark Spaces
* Cave mapping - classic techniques, modern techniques, future techniques

Maybe you still don't think you have something to talk about, but you know 
someone else would be perfect? Let me know who and I'll chase them down.

Contact me directly if you or someone you know has something to teach us about: 
vicechair...@cavetexas.org
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Re: [Texascavers] Maya Cave Movie

[Jules Jenkins]

Not as bad as some ‘cave related films’ but.
I gotta wondered why making a good film about the underground seems to be so 
difficult. Then I think, ‘oh yeah, it’s Hollywood!’
🤣🤣🤣

> On Feb 14, 2020, at 4:50 PM, Mark Minton  wrote:
> 


There’s a sci-fi movie about the Maya underworld Xibalba, in which cave divers 
meet up with monsters. Free on YouTube at 
.
 
Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cave Salamander Didn't Move for 2, 569 Days

[Lee H. Skinner]

Here is a better article on the salamander with more pictures:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/blind-aquatic-salamander-may-have-sat-mostly-still-seven-years


Lee


On 2/5/2020 1:15 PM, Lee H. Skinner wrote:
https://www.newser.com/story/286552/theres-a-creature-that-didnt-move-for-2569-days.html 




Lee Skinner


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Re: [Texascavers] Why do so many deadly viral outbreaks originate in bats?

[Lyndon Tiu]

Its because, Batman!

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 11:38 AM Lee H. Skinner  wrote:

> Ebola, Marburg, SARS, MERS, and now the new coronavirus Covid-19
> , all
> share one thing in common – they are thought to have originated in bats. A
> new study, led by scientists at UC Berkeley, is suggesting the mammals’
> uniquely fierce immune system encourages viruses to reproduce and when the
> viruses cross over into other animals or humans they can be incredibly
> fatal.  Full article at
>
>
> https://newatlas.com/science/why-deadly-viral-coronavirus-outbreaks-originate-bats
>
>
> Lee Skinner
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>


-- 
Lyndon Tiu
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Re: [Texascavers] Gone Caving Card Game is available to preorder!

[Bob Booth]

A caving card game Kickstarter.

Bob

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 9:08 AM curt harler  wrote:

> See below.
>
> If you played the game at Carter Caves or any other caving event where
> they beta tested it, you know it’s a fun, cave version of Milles Bornes:
> play cards to collect feet of cave passage, gain/lose points or turns by
> overcoming obstacles or doing good things underground.
>
> Curt Harler
>
> c...@curtharler.com +440-238-4556
>
>
>
> *From:* ja...@gonecaving.com [mailto:ja...@gonecaving.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 09, 2020 11:27 PM
> *To:* undisclosed-recipients:
> *Subject:* Gone Caving Card Game is available to preorder!
>
>
>
> Gone Caving is now available for preorder!!!
>
>
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gone-caving/gone-caving-a-card-game-of-exploration-and-discovery?ref=project_build
>
> We appreciate your patience and support as we have made changes and
> improvements to Gone Caving in the last year. We also want to thank those
> of you who have helped us test and prepare at events. We have incorporated
> a lot of your ideas, and that input has made the game a lot of fun! We
> couldn’t have done it without you!
>
> We have started a Kickstarter to handle the preorders and would love to
> have your support. The game is available for only $20 during preorders, and
> will be available for $25 after the initial printing. Feel free to share
> with anyone who you think would like to play, and we look forward to seeing
> you underground!
>
>
>
> Jared
>
> www.gonecaving.com
>
> Our Kickstarter link active until 23 March 2020!
>
>
>
> --
> Others can subscribe by sending a mail to
> clevelandgrotto+subscr...@googlegroups.com and then replying to the
> message they get back
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ClevelandGrotto" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to clevelandgrotto+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/clevelandgrotto/009a01d5e01b%249545dc20%24bfd19460%24%40curtharler.com
> 
> .
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Hard Hats

[Mark Minton]

Sorry; I left an s off of that last link. It should be 
<https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/object-groups/mining-lights-and-hats/helmets>.

 

Mark

 

From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net] 
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 3:40 PM
To: 'texascavers@texascavers.com'
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Hard Hats

 

My first helmet was an MSA Comfo-Cap fiberglass miner’s helmet (1968). I also 
remember people wearing those old motorcycle helmets. No doubt good head 
protection but gawdawful hot, heavy and bulky. I never went that route. I did 
use an orange MSR plastic helmet for a while, but the narrow brim all the way 
around the perimeter made it too wide for tight spots. Ultimates and the 
similar Joe Brown helmets were good, but also too hot.

 

Another brief description of helmet history is at 
<https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/object-groups/mining-lights-and-hats/helmet>.

 

Mark Minton

mmin...@caver.net

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
jerryat...@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 10:54 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Hard Hats

 

The helmet that saved Blake was an Ultimate, heavy but quite sturdy and saved 
me and others from some hard knocks. I once had a carabiner fall from about 60 
ft and hit me square on the top of the helmet. Knocked me to my knees but no 
other damage other than ringing in the ears. 

 

Jerry Atkinson.

Sent from my iPhone

Jerry Atkinson


On Feb 8, 2020, at 12:25 PM, PRESTON FORSYTHE  wrote:

I have several authentic Coal Miner "soft hats/helmets" for mounting a carbide 
light and minor head protection. Those are probably worn prior to 1940. Now I 
also have my original caving helmet, black hard shell with a small bill only on 
the front that I wore in 1960, 8th grade. A few years ago a collector told me 
that was worth $800 bucks, which is difficult to believe.

 

Another prized helmet is a heavy white motorcycle cycle helmet with chin strap 
that Ediger promoted in the Kirkwood neighborhood around 1976. Then there is 
the lighter weight yellow helmet that probably saved Blake from more serious 
injury in his fall. I forget what we called that helmet, but it was the top 
helmet at the time.

 

Of course helmets were worn in WW1 as evident in the war flick, 1917.

 

Helmets off !!  I could open Mark's link.

 

Preston

Sent from AT 
<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
 &T Yahoo Mail on Android

 

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 11:34 AM, Mark Minton

 wrote:

Ever wonder where hard hats came from? Here’s a link to a story about the 
company that made the first hard hats after World War I, 100 years ago: 
<https://www.xyht.com/surveying/hard-hat-anniversary/>. Only the first few 
paragraphs are about the history; the rest is about the company today and is of 
less interest.

 

Mark Minton

mmin...@caver.net

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Re: [Texascavers] Hard Hats

[Mark Minton]

My first helmet was an MSA Comfo-Cap fiberglass miner’s helmet (1968). I also 
remember people wearing those old motorcycle helmets. No doubt good head 
protection but gawdawful hot, heavy and bulky. I never went that route. I did 
use an orange MSR plastic helmet for a while, but the narrow brim all the way 
around the perimeter made it too wide for tight spots. Ultimates and the 
similar Joe Brown helmets were good, but also too hot.

 

Another brief description of helmet history is at 
<https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/object-groups/mining-lights-and-hats/helmet>.

 

Mark Minton

mmin...@caver.net

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
jerryat...@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 10:54 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Hard Hats

 

The helmet that saved Blake was an Ultimate, heavy but quite sturdy and saved 
me and others from some hard knocks. I once had a carabiner fall from about 60 
ft and hit me square on the top of the helmet. Knocked me to my knees but no 
other damage other than ringing in the ears. 

 

Jerry Atkinson.

Sent from my iPhone

Jerry Atkinson


On Feb 8, 2020, at 12:25 PM, PRESTON FORSYTHE  wrote:

I have several authentic Coal Miner "soft hats/helmets" for mounting a carbide 
light and minor head protection. Those are probably worn prior to 1940. Now I 
also have my original caving helmet, black hard shell with a small bill only on 
the front that I wore in 1960, 8th grade. A few years ago a collector told me 
that was worth $800 bucks, which is difficult to believe.

 

Another prized helmet is a heavy white motorcycle cycle helmet with chin strap 
that Ediger promoted in the Kirkwood neighborhood around 1976. Then there is 
the lighter weight yellow helmet that probably saved Blake from more serious 
injury in his fall. I forget what we called that helmet, but it was the top 
helmet at the time.

 

Of course helmets were worn in WW1 as evident in the war flick, 1917.

 

Helmets off !!  I could open Mark's link.

 

Preston

Sent from AT 
<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
 &T Yahoo Mail on Android

 

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 11:34 AM, Mark Minton

 wrote:

Ever wonder where hard hats came from? Here’s a link to a story about the 
company that made the first hard hats after World War I, 100 years ago: 
<https://www.xyht.com/surveying/hard-hat-anniversary/>. Only the first few 
paragraphs are about the history; the rest is about the company today and is of 
less interest.

 

Mark Minton

mmin...@caver.net

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Re: [Texascavers] Hard Hats

[jerryatkin]

The helmet that saved Blake was an Ultimate, heavy but quite sturdy and saved 
me and others from some hard knocks. I once had a carabiner fall from about 60 
ft and hit me square on the top of the helmet. Knocked me to my knees but no 
other damage other than ringing in the ears. 

Jerry Atkinson.

Sent from my iPhone
Jerry Atkinson

> On Feb 8, 2020, at 12:25 PM, PRESTON FORSYTHE  wrote:
> 
> I have several authentic Coal Miner "soft hats/helmets" for mounting a 
> carbide light and minor head protection. Those are probably worn prior to 
> 1940. Now I also have my original caving helmet, black hard shell with a 
> small bill only on the front that I wore in 1960, 8th grade. A few years ago 
> a collector told me that was worth $800 bucks, which is difficult to believe.
> 
> Another prized helmet is a heavy white motorcycle cycle helmet with chin 
> strap that Ediger promoted in the Kirkwood neighborhood around 1976. Then 
> there is the lighter weight yellow helmet that probably saved Blake from more 
> serious injury in his fall. I forget what we called that helmet, but it was 
> the top helmet at the time.
> 
> Of course helmets were worn in WW1 as evident in the war flick, 1917.
> 
> Helmets off !!  I could open Mark's link.
> 
> Preston
> 
> Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
> On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 11:34 AM, Mark Minton
>  wrote:
> Ever wonder where hard hats came from? Here’s a link to a story about the 
> company that made the first hard hats after World War I, 100 years ago: 
> . Only the first few 
> paragraphs are about the history; the rest is about the company today and is 
> of less interest.
> 
>  
> 
> Mark Minton
> 
> mmin...@caver.net
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal web site is down?

[George Veni]

Diana,

Thanks for pointing this out. I was traveling which delayed me from replying. I 
contacted other members of the Karst Information Portal team and we discovered 
there was some confusion about who was responsible for registering the domain, 
which happened about 14 years ago. This problem has been solved and the 
www.karstportal.org address is reestablished. The site is maintained by our 
University of South Florida partner, and can be accessed through the 
university's url as Katie discovered, but the www.karstportal.org address is 
far more intuitive and easier to remember so we maintain that as well.

If you or anyone else has any questions, comments, or suggestions for the Karst 
Information Portal, let me know.

George 


George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org


-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Diana Tomchick
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 5:23 PM
To: Cave Tex
Subject: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal web site is down?

Or is it no longer functional?

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry UT Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)




UT Southwestern


Medical Center



The future of medicine, today.


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Re: [Texascavers] Hard Hats

[PRESTON FORSYTHE]

I have several authentic Coal Miner "soft hats/helmets" for mounting a carbide 
light and minor head protection. Those are probably worn prior to 1940. Now I 
also have my original caving helmet, black hard shell with a small bill only on 
the front that I wore in 1960, 8th grade. A few years ago a collector told me 
that was worth $800 bucks, which is difficult to believe.
Another prized helmet is a heavy white motorcycle cycle helmet with chin strap 
that Ediger promoted in the Kirkwood neighborhood around 1976. Then there is 
the lighter weight yellow helmet that probably saved Blake from more serious 
injury in his fall. I forget what we called that helmet, but it was the top 
helmet at the time.
Of course helmets were worn in WW1 as evident in the war flick, 1917.
Helmets off !!  I could open Mark's link.
Preston

Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 11:34 AM, Mark Minton wrote:   

Ever wonder where hard hats came from? Here’s a link to a story about the 
company that made the first hard hats after World War I, 100 years ago: 
. Only the first few 
paragraphs are about the history; the rest is about the company today and is of 
less interest.

  

Mark Minton

mmin...@caver.net
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves

[Bill Steele]

Diana Tomchick and I watched a Steve Backshall episode about canyoneering in 
Oman. We were curious about their unorthodox rappelling devices, amused by 
their struggles going down a long rope, and relieved that no one got injured or 
killed. Backstall doesn’t seem up to Bear Gryll’s level of competence and he 
doesn’t gross me out with what he eats. 

Here’s the trailer for the episode we watched. Lots of “Golly, gee whiz!”

https://www.pbs.org/video/expedition-steve-backshall-oman-desert-canyon-hci98m/

Bill Steele
Irving, Texas 
speleoste...@aol.com

> On Feb 7, 2020, at 9:07 AM, Mark Minton  wrote:
> 
> 
> Jim Coke (head of QRSS) says this episode takes place near Tulum in Quintana 
> Roo. I suspect this guy Steve Backshall is similar to Bear Grylls – sort of 
> an outdoor adventurer but more sensational than hardcore.
>  
> Mark
>  
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Jon Cradit
> Sent: Friday, February 7, 2020 9:33 AM
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves
>  
> Mark,
> Did he ever say how much unexplored passage there was?
> I did see they were caving topless, with no helmets.
>  
> JC
>  
>  
> 
> Jon Cradit P.G., R.S.
> Geologist – Aquifer Protection
> www.edwardsaquifer.org
> 210.222.2204 ext 323  
> 900 E Quincy 
> San Antonio, TX 78215
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
>  
> From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Mark 
> Minton
> Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:26 PM
> To: swrcav...@googlegroups.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves
>  
> “Largest unexplored cave” – So how, if it’s unexplored, how do they know it’s 
> the largest? I’m surprised to see this from PBS. I went to their web site but 
> there is very little information about this program. It doesn’t say what cave 
> network, but my guess is somewhere in Quintana Roo.
>  
> Mark Minton
> mmin...@caver.net
>  
> From: swrcav...@googlegroups.com [mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Lee H. Skinner
> Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:35 PM
> To: New Mexico Cavers; Sandia Grotto
> Subject: [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves
> Expedition With Steve Backshall
> 
> Mexico: Flooded Caves 
> Season 1, Episode 10 • New
> 
> 9:00 PM ON KNMEDT 5 • TV-PG • Stereo • CC
> Steve leads a team into the largest unexplored cave network on Earth below 
> the jungles of Mexico, pushing further and deeper than anyone has gone before.
> 
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves

[Mark Minton]

Jim Coke (head of QRSS) says this episode takes place near Tulum in Quintana 
Roo. I suspect this guy Steve Backshall is similar to Bear Grylls – sort of an 
outdoor adventurer but more sensational than hardcore.

 

Mark

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jon 
Cradit
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2020 9:33 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves

 

Mark, 

Did he ever say how much unexplored passage there was?

I did see they were caving topless, with no helmets. 

 

JC

 

 



 <http://www.edwardsaquifer.org/> 
https://ucarecdn.com/cfe99bfa-9ee9-4330-862f-aee807af1b4c/-/resize/132x68/img.png



Jon Cradit P.G., R.S.


Geologist – Aquifer Protection



 <http://www.edwardsaquifer.org/> www.edwardsaquifer.org



210.222.2204 ext 323  


900 E Quincy 
San Antonio, TX 78215


 <https://www.facebook.com/TheEdwardsAquifer/?sk=wall> 
https://app.zippysig.com/social-icons/24/55/03facebook.gif 
https://app.zippysig.com/assets/spacer_16px.gif  
<https://twitter.com/EdwardsAquifer> 
https://app.zippysig.com/social-icons/24/55/03twitter.gif 
https://app.zippysig.com/assets/spacer_16px.gif  
<https://www.youtube.com/edwardsaquiferauthorityeaa> 
https://app.zippysig.com/social-icons/24/55/03youtube.gif 
https://app.zippysig.com/assets/spacer_16px.gif

 

 

From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Mark Minton
Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:26 PM
To: swrcav...@googlegroups.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves

 

“Largest unexplored cave” – So how, if it’s unexplored, how do they know it’s 
the largest? I’m surprised to see this from PBS. I went to their web site but 
there is very little information about this program. It doesn’t say what cave 
network, but my guess is somewhere in Quintana Roo.

 

Mark Minton

mmin...@caver.net

 

From: swrcav...@googlegroups.com [mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Lee H. Skinner
Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:35 PM
To: New Mexico Cavers; Sandia Grotto
Subject: [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves


Expedition With Steve Backshall  
<https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftvlistings.zap2it.com%2Foverview.html%3FprogramSeriesId%3DSH03364768%26tmsId%3DEP033647680004&data=01%7C01%7Cjcradit%40edwardsaquifer.org%7C30c640afe0fe4e8071bd08d7aa81fde7%7C5c22012be3bb4a79903b5ca9e5027fc5%7C0&sdata=eSeHvWMaWvMg9Nepzpc86yYfFItOOh3iYVJi%2FauRByo%3D&reserved=0>
 


Mexico: Flooded Caves  
<https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftvlistings.zap2it.com%2Foverview.html%3FtabName%3Dguide%26programSeriesId%3DSH03364768%26tmsId%3DEP033647680004%26season%3D1%26episode%3D10&data=01%7C01%7Cjcradit%40edwardsaquifer.org%7C30c640afe0fe4e8071bd08d7aa81fde7%7C5c22012be3bb4a79903b5ca9e5027fc5%7C0&sdata=9vZmkuQy2O8qytJlgYNAjO47GBRPVaLi4uT08S28mfU%3D&reserved=0>
 
Season 1, Episode 10 • New


9:00 PM ON KNMEDT 5 • TV-PG • Stereo • CC

Steve leads a team into the largest unexplored cave network on Earth below the 
jungles of Mexico, pushing further and deeper than anyone has gone before.

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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves

[Jon Cradit]

Mark,
Did he ever say how much unexplored passage there was?
I did see they were caving topless, with no helmets.

JC


[https://ucarecdn.com/cfe99bfa-9ee9-4330-862f-aee807af1b4c/-/resize/132x68/img.png]<http://www.edwardsaquifer.org/>
Jon Cradit P.G., R.S.
Geologist – Aquifer Protection
www.edwardsaquifer.org<http://www.edwardsaquifer.org/>
210.222.2204 ext 323
900 E Quincy
San Antonio, TX 78215
[https://app.zippysig.com/social-icons/24/55/03facebook.gif]<https://www.facebook.com/TheEdwardsAquifer/?sk=wall>
  [https://app.zippysig.com/social-icons/24/55/03twitter.gif] 
<https://twitter.com/EdwardsAquifer>   
[https://app.zippysig.com/social-icons/24/55/03youtube.gif] 
<https://www.youtube.com/edwardsaquiferauthorityeaa>


From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Mark Minton
Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:26 PM
To: swrcav...@googlegroups.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves

External Email
“Largest unexplored cave” – So how if it’s unexplored, how do they know it’s 
the largest? I’m surprised to see this from PBS. I went to their web site but 
there is very little information about this program. It doesn’t say what cave 
network, but my guess is somewhere in Quintana Roo.

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net<mailto:mmin...@caver.net>

From: swrcav...@googlegroups.com<mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee H. Skinner
Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:35 PM
To: New Mexico Cavers; Sandia Grotto
Subject: [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves
Expedition With Steve Backshall 
<https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftvlistings.zap2it.com%2Foverview.html%3FprogramSeriesId%3DSH03364768%26tmsId%3DEP033647680004&data=01%7C01%7Cjcradit%40edwardsaquifer.org%7C30c640afe0fe4e8071bd08d7aa81fde7%7C5c22012be3bb4a79903b5ca9e5027fc5%7C0&sdata=eSeHvWMaWvMg9Nepzpc86yYfFItOOh3iYVJi%2FauRByo%3D&reserved=0>
Mexico: Flooded Caves 
<https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftvlistings.zap2it.com%2Foverview.html%3FtabName%3Dguide%26programSeriesId%3DSH03364768%26tmsId%3DEP033647680004%26season%3D1%26episode%3D10&data=01%7C01%7Cjcradit%40edwardsaquifer.org%7C30c640afe0fe4e8071bd08d7aa81fde7%7C5c22012be3bb4a79903b5ca9e5027fc5%7C0&sdata=9vZmkuQy2O8qytJlgYNAjO47GBRPVaLi4uT08S28mfU%3D&reserved=0>
Season 1, Episode 10 • New
9:00 PM ON KNMEDT 5 • TV-PG • Stereo • CC

Steve leads a team into the largest unexplored cave network on Earth below the 
jungles of Mexico, pushing further and deeper than anyone has gone before.
Don't click links or attachments unless you know they're safe.
- EAA Helpdesk

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Re: [Texascavers] The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers updated again

[Carol W Russell]

Bill, thanks for all you do, and thanks also to your helpers. Carol

On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 11:30 AM William R. Elliott 
wrote:

> “The Hall” at http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm is dedicated to
> tributes, biographies, obituaries, and photos about departed cavers and
> cave scientists who caved in Texas or Mexico. I launched the web page on 5
> September 2019 after we lost so many old friends in 2019.
>
> I recently completed most of the tributes that I can do for now. Today, 2
> February 2020, I posted 55 more pdfs, for a total of 125 pdfs (126 cavers).
> We still have 34 “lost cavers,” meaning we don’t have much information on
> them yet. Please check them out on the website and help me find more
> information.
>
> Carl Kunath is recognized for writing many caver obituaries and tributes
> accompanied by his great photos. Susan Hardcastle Beaty, Dale Pate and
> Frances Fehribach assisted me with difficult research into obituaries, news
> articles and death certificates. Ron Miller authored a web page in 2010, *In
> Memory of Texas Cavers*, from which I borrowed information. Thanks to the
> 91 folks who wrote tributes and provided photos over many years––their
> names are listed on the web page.
>
> I was asked to write another article on this project for the next *Texas
> Caver*. I will summarize what we know about some of the remarkable cavers
> we have known, and give some caving safety information.
>
>
> *William R. (Bill) Elliott*
>
> *speodes...@gmail.com *
>
> 573-291-5093 cell
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> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves

[Mark Minton]

“Largest unexplored cave” – So how if it’s unexplored, how do they know it’s 
the largest? I’m surprised to see this from PBS. I went to their web site but 
there is very little information about this program. It doesn’t say what cave 
network, but my guess is somewhere in Quintana Roo.

 

Mark Minton

mmin...@caver.net

 

From: swrcav...@googlegroups.com [mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Lee H. Skinner
Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:35 PM
To: New Mexico Cavers; Sandia Grotto
Subject: [SWR CAVERS] On TV tonight - Mexico Caves


Expedition With Steve Backshall  

 


Mexico: Flooded Caves  

 
Season 1, Episode 10 • New


9:00 PM ON KNMEDT 5 • TV-PG • Stereo • CC

Steve leads a team into the largest unexplored cave network on Earth below the 
jungles of Mexico, pushing further and deeper than anyone has gone before.

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Re: [Texascavers] Aquarela

[John Corcoran III]

Thanks Dwight!

Regards,

John

From: Dwight Deal 
Sent: Monday, February 3, 2020 12:32 PM
To: Cave NM ; Cave Texas 

Subject: Aquarela



We just viewed an unusual and exceptionally beautiful film about water: Aquarela

Although some have said that it is a film about climate warming, I see it as 
about the importance and awesome power of water.  Water is what makes life 
possible on Earth, carves our landscapes, is the medium for the deposition of 
limestone, and dissolves our caves.  (The excuse for posting this here.)

Beautiful, powerful, unusual. There’s virtually no people and only 12 lines of 
dialogue in the entire 1.5 hour film.

It took me over 3 months to obtain a "free" copy through our public library 
system.   What came was a Blue-ray disk that is not playable on a standard DVD 
player. Amazon rents it for $5.99 and sells it for $14.99.

DirtDoc

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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Aquarela

[Diana Tomchick]

It’s also available in both formats through Netflix.

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
UT Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

On Feb 3, 2020, at 1:31 PM, Dwight Deal 
mailto:dirt...@comcast.net>> wrote:


EXTERNAL MAIL



We just viewed an unusual and exceptionally beautiful film about water: Aquarela

Although some have said that it is a film about climate warming, I see it as 
about the importance and awesome power of water.  Water is what makes life 
possible on Earth, carves our landscapes, is the medium for the deposition of 
limestone, and dissolves our caves.  (The excuse for posting this here.)

Beautiful, powerful, unusual. There’s virtually no people and only 12 lines of 
dialogue in the entire 1.5 hour film.

It took me over 3 months to obtain a "free" copy through our public library 
system.   What came was a Blue-ray disk that is not playable on a standard DVD 
player. Amazon rents it for $5.99 and sells it for $14.99.

DirtDoc


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Medical Center



The future of medicine, today.

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Re: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey

[Diana Tomchick]

Thanks for my morning laugh,

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
UT Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu<mailto:diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu>
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

On Feb 2, 2020, at 1:34 PM, Mark Minton 
mailto:mmin...@caver.net>> wrote:

EXTERNAL MAIL

Reminds me of the time we were invited to a big ranch in west Texas to check 
out a cave. The owner said he knew it had to be big because his wife had once 
spent all day in there with the ranch foreman. Turned out it was only one room. 
Wonder what they did in there all day. Hmmm.

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net<mailto:mmin...@caver.net>

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Nancy Weaver
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:44 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey

thanks Andy.  Jill told me that the cave was being privately explored and that 
it was purportedly "3 miles long and going”  which made me think, if true, that 
cavers would know about it.  She was on the ranch studying golden cheek 
warblers as there was habitat.
I’m highly dubious of most claims of 3 mile long caves by ranchers as they 
often turn out to be one large room
But you never know .. . .
Nancy


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Medical Center



The future of medicine, today.

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Re: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey

[Geary Schindel]

Nancy,

We have been, PM me at tablechair1...@gmail.com and I may be able to help.

Thanks,

Geary Schindel

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Nancy 
Weaver
Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2020 5:32 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey

External Email

anyone working in a cave on a ranch at the headwaters of the trio?  I met a 
woman in Taos today who lived on that ranch and was trying to describe it to me.
just wondering if it has a name, don’t want a lead or to know where it is.
Nancy
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Re: [Texascavers] Shape Memory Alloy Rock Splitters (SMARS)

[Mark Minton]

I had not heard of shape-memory alloys being used to split rock, but it makes 
sense. A related method uses an expanding clay powder that is mixed with water 
to form a paste and then poured into a drill hole. As it dries, it expands and 
breaks the rock. Disadvantages of the clay method are that it takes a big hole 
(about 2 inches diameter in order to hold enough material) and around 24 hours 
to do the job. Sounds like this method might require a smaller hole and much 
less time. Such methods produce little flyrock and could be useful in a rescue 
situation where explosives couldn’t be used close to the victim. A disadvantage 
of this new alloy is that it is probably expensive (titanium and hafnium), but 
could possibly be reused.

 

Interesting asides about hafnium: it was the second-to-last naturally occurring 
stable element to be discovered (1923). (Rhenium was the last in 1925.) Hafnium 
carbide has the highest melting point of any known binary compound (7,034 
degrees Fahrenheit), and the mixed carbide of tungsten and hafnium has the 
single highest melting point of any known compound at 7,457 degrees F.

 

Mark M

Retired Chemist

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Nigel
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2020 1:52 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Shape Memory Alloy Rock Splitters (SMARS)

 

I was going through some old NASA Tech Briefs and came across this.

https://www.techbriefs.com/component/content/article/tb/techbriefs/mechanics-and-machinery/33375

 

https://technology.nasa.gov/patent/LEW-TOPS-87

 

ntrs.nasa.gov › archive › nasa › casi.ntrs.nasa.gov

Shape Memory Alloy Rock Splitters - NTRS - NASA  PDF

by O Benafan - ?2015 - ?Cited by 3 - ?Related articles

A static rock splitter device based on high-force, high-temperature shape 
memory alloys (HTSMAs) was developed for space related applications requiring 
controlled geologic excavation in planetary bodies such as the Moon, Mars, and 
near-Earth asteroids.

Nigel

near the Lindsay-Parsons Biodiversity Preserve, West Danby, NY
http://www.fllt.org/preserves/lindsay-parsons-biodiversity-preserve/

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Re: [Texascavers] The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers updated again

[keith heuss]

 Mike Hennessy died on January 6, 2020.  He was a caver in the 1970's with the 
Than SWT Grotto.  Logan McNatt might have more information for your Web page.  
I hadn't realized so many cavers have passed, especially in 2019.
Thanks for the info.  Keep it up.
Keith Heuss

On Sunday, February 2, 2020, 11:30:39 AM CST, William R. Elliott 
 wrote:  
 
 


 

“The Hall” at http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htmis dedicated to 
tributes,biographies, obituaries, and photos about departed cavers and cave 
scientistswho caved in Texas or Mexico. I launched the web page on 5 September 
2019 afterwe lost so many old friends in 2019. 

I recentlycompleted most of the tributes that I can do for now. Today, 2 
February 2020, Iposted 55 more pdfs, for a total of 125 pdfs (126 cavers). We 
still have 34“lost cavers,” meaning we don’t have much information on them yet. 
Please checkthem out on the website and help me find more information.

Carl Kunath is recognized for writing manycaver obituaries and tributes 
accompanied by his great photos. Susan HardcastleBeaty, Dale Pate and Frances 
Fehribach assisted me with difficult research intoobituaries, news articles and 
death certificates. Ron Miller authored a webpage in 2010, In Memory of Texas 
Cavers, fromwhich I borrowed information. Thanks to the 91 folks who wrote 
tributesand provided photos overmany years––their names are listed on the web 
page.

I was asked towrite another article on this project for the next Texas Caver. I 
will summarize what we knowabout some of the remarkable cavers we have known, 
and give some caving safetyinformation.




William R. (Bill) Elliott


speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell
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Re: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey

[Mark Minton]

Reminds me of the time we were invited to a big ranch in west Texas to check 
out a cave. The owner said he knew it had to be big because his wife had once 
spent all day in there with the ranch foreman. Turned out it was only one room. 
Wonder what they did in there all day. Hmmm.

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Nancy Weaver
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:44 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey

thanks Andy.  Jill told me that the cave was being privately explored and that 
it was purportedly "3 miles long and going”  which made me think, if true, that 
cavers would know about it.  She was on the ranch studying golden cheek 
warblers as there was habitat.  
I’m highly dubious of most claims of 3 mile long caves by ranchers as they 
often turn out to be one large room
But you never know .. . .
Nancy


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Re: [Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting 1/29/2020 Anouncement

[Underground Texas Grotto]

Greetings Cavers,
Ah, sorry - I don't look at the email much. We are moving all the talks to
our YouTube channel! There may be some small lag from the night they are
presented until they are posted. I think the person who posts the videos is
at NCRC this week, so that one hasn't been posted yet.

It would help us make our YouTube channel more visible if you would
subscribe to our channel while you check out the talks. We need 100
subscribers, and have been making a push for more subscribers lately. We
started with 14 last week!

Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyq7K9nSn0OtA6cBF1e5kCQ/videos

Kara Savvas

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 2:53 PM Jules Jenkins  wrote:

> Is it going to be on ‘Periscope’?
>
> On Jan 27, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Underground Texas Grotto 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> The UT Grotto will meet this coming Wednesday, January 29th at 7:30 pm at
> The High Road on Dawson - 700 Dawson Road, Austin, TX 78704, off Barton
> Springs Road. Please, no outside food or beverages. They have happy hours
> from 5-7 pm for $2-$3 beers, otherwise beer is $3-$4 and a burger with
> fries is $5. Arrive early to order!
>
> Our featured speaker for the week is David Ochel. David will share
> pictures and stories from the exploration of the FOXX moulin on the
> Greenland ice sheet, an expedition in the fall of 2019 to aid climate
> research by glaciologists Jason Gulley and Matt Covington.
>
> You don't need to be a member of the UT Grotto to attend this presentation
> - you can learn how to become a member at the meeting, if that interests
> you.
>
> You can also learn about more caving opportunities locally, and throughout
> the world. Several state level caving projects have started up again, and
> folks are preparing for various spring break expeditions. You may hear
> about other trips you can join locally, throughout Texas, and the world.
> You can also learn more about how to go caving safely, and where to learn
> how to do vertical work from cavers at the meeting.
>
>
> Kara Savvas
>
> Vice Person, UT Grotto
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey

[Nancy Weaver]

thanks Andy.  Jill told me that the cave was being privately explored and that 
it was purportedly "3 miles long and going”  which made me think, if true, that 
cavers would know about it.  She was on the ranch studying golden cheek 
warblers as there was habitat.  
I’m highly dubious of most claims of 3 mile long caves by ranchers as they 
often turn out to be one large room
But you never know .. . .
Nancy
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Re: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey

[grubbsi]

Leakey is Real county.  There are some caves that have been known for a long 
time there, names elude me at the moment.  The Geology is favorable for caves. 
Good limestones in the Edwards section, potential confining layers in the 
underlying Glen Rose. The Frio and its branches are cutting into the edge of 
the Edwards Plateau there.  The big river valleys are developed on the upper 
Glen Rose with steep winding ridges where the remaining Edwards rocks cap the 
hills.  Lots of springs up in those headwaters canyons.  LiDAR data for the 
county has recently become available and shows numerous leads.

- Original Message -
From: "Nancy Weaver" 
To: "texascavers" 
Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2020 5:32:14 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey

anyone working in a cave on a ranch at the headwaters of the trio?  I met a 
woman in Taos today who lived on that ranch and was trying to describe it to me.
just wondering if it has a name, don’t want a lead or to know where it is.
Nancy
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Re: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey

[Mark Minton]

I presume you mean Frio (River).

Mark Minton

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Nancy Weaver
Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2020 6:32 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] cave on ranch near leakey

anyone working in a cave on a ranch at the headwaters of the trio?  I met a 
woman in Taos today who lived on that ranch and was trying to describe it to 
me. just wondering if it has a name, don’t want a lead or to know where it is.
Nancy


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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Re: Animal dug caves

[Logan]

Reminds me of the movie The Princes Bride with the R.O.U.S., Rodents of 
Unusual Size.

A great example of truth is stranger than fiction.

On 1/30/2020 8:48 AM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:
Very cool. A more well-known set of large animal-dug caves are the 
salt caves in Africa dug by elephants: 
.


Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On 2020-01-30 04:13, Mike Flannigan wrote:

Animal dug caves:
https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/get-lost-in-mega-tunnels-dug-by-south-american-megafauna 




Mike




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Re: [Texascavers] Bats and Chinese Flu

[Diana Tomchick]

It’s a little more complicated than that. Typical wild reservoir for many 
coronaviruses is bats. Genome published in The Lancet of the 2019-nCoV 
indicates highest homology (88%) to two bat-derived SARS-like coronaviruses, 
and 79% identical to the SARSCoV. Bats might be the reservoir, but it’s too 
soon to say the exact route from the wild reservoir to humans. Could be one or 
more mammals (or birds) involved in that route.

See

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30251-8/fulltext

While I love the NY Times science reporting in general, I prefer to go to the 
actual source when it comes to a newly emerging pathogen with all the 
associated hype,

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
UT Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

On Jan 31, 2020, at 1:11 PM, PRESTON FORSYTHE 
mailto:pns_...@bellsouth.net>> wrote:


EXTERNAL MAIL

Article in NYT  two days ago stating bats are  the root cause. Sorry no link 
available as currently at one of those end of the world locations with limited 
internet, except for this one tree I am under. I thought article was researched 
and written well, so please search if interested.

Preston Forsythe, sometimes at home in Browder, KY

Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on 
Android

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UT Southwestern


Medical Center



The future of medicine, today.

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Re: [Texascavers] Animal dug caves

[mminton]

Very cool. A more well-known set of large animal-dug caves are the salt 
caves in Africa dug by elephants: 
.


Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On 2020-01-30 04:13, Mike Flannigan wrote:

Animal dug caves:
https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/get-lost-in-mega-tunnels-dug-by-south-american-megafauna


Mike

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