Re: [TMIC] meds
Thank you both for answering, I already have most of those symtoms so I will not try this med!!! I am planning a trip to China and Tibet. So far my GP and my Neuro will not give me Diamox for altitude sickness. Lhasa is more than 12,000 feet. I don't know where to go to get it. Oh Well, Tobe :O) --- On Tue, 5/4/10, bgunny7...@aol.com wrote: From: bgunny7...@aol.com Subject: Re: [TMIC] meds To: sseco...@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 7:19 PM Ampyra, when given at doses greater than that recommended (10 milligrams twice a day), can cause seizures. The most common adverse reactions reported by patients taking Ampyra in clinical trials include urinary tract infection, insomnia, dizziness, headache, nausea, weakness, back pain, balance disorder, swelling in the nose or throat, constipation, diarrhea, indigestion, throat pain, and burning, tingling or itching of skin. These side effects include dizziness, balance disorder, and weakness. I don't know kiddo. It doesn't sound like it's much good.
[TMIC] meds
Hello Everyone, I went to see my neuro today and he suggested I take AMPYRA He said it helps with balance and walking speed. Has anyone taken it or heard of it? Also has anyone taken altitude medication for trips to very high places? How did you do on them? Thanks again as always Tobe Brooklyn NY
[TMIC] age
52 Tobe Bklyn NY
Re: [TMIC] chiropractor
Have any of you tried Network Chiropratic? It is a gentle adjustment using
your breath. I did it years ago and it helped although I haven't been back.
He moved out of state .
--- On Fri, 11/13/09, jrushton wrote:
From: jrushton
Subject: Re: [TMIC] chiropractor
To: fr...@franksheldon.com, "tmic"
Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 4:17 PM
#yiv1366733641 v\3a* {
}
#yiv1366733641 v\3a* {
}
Whatever he is doing is working, Frank. I can't tell you how much better I feel
even tho the hot and cold is still there but I've only gone to him twice. I
had gotten so bad with pain that I had shut myself up and was getting to the
point where I wouldn't answer the phone not call back plus I didn't want to
leave the house. I didn't even go outside for days. I just hurt so bad it was
affecting my entire thinking and that is NOT like me.
It may not be for everyone as we well know with all of the different stories we
read. This guy is really into working on getting the nerves back to doing what
they should be doing. j
---Original Message---
From: fr...@franksheldon.com
Date: 11/13/2009 3:03:36 PM
To: Amanda Diskey; tmic-l...@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [TMIC] chiropractor
I took a course at Harvard on Back Pain. One of the professors was a fellow
who was a chiropractor and also an M.D., orthopedic surgeon. He was very good.
Low Impact Adjustments are OK, High Impact Adjustments are very dangerous.
Deep Massage helps a lot. Diathermy is very helpful to relax the deep tissues.
Physiotherapy is crucial.
Have I left out anything?
F
Re: [TMIC] Artist w TM in New York times
Last night was the opening of this artist's exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum and I attended. Two people helped him walk down the aisle and onto the stage. It looked as if his hands were affected too. After the lecture I saw him in his wheelchair being taken to a limo. I went over to him and asked if indeed he had TM. He didn't even look at me and just said I'm done. A guard said he is very tired. I know he was tired but he was also very rude!!! Tobe Brooklyn NY --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Akua wrote: From: Akua Subject: [TMIC] Artist w TM in New York times To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 9:42 PM very interesting article on interesting artist who had...transverse myelitis. and was paralyzed. but no longer is.. regained ability to walk after three years in a wheelchair http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/arts/design/21sont.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=shonibare&st=cse --
[TMIC] disabilities expo
Hi All, For those living in the NYC area there will be an expo for individuals with disabilities at the Suffolk County Community College Sports and Convention Center, Saturday June 27 and Sunday June 28. Go to www.IndependenceExpo.org for more information. Take care, Tobe :O) Brooklyn NY
[TMIC] Fwd: Check out Independence Expo » Homepage
--- On Sun, 6/7/09, spirita...@verizon.net wrote: From: spirita...@verizon.net Subject: Fwd: Check out Independence Expo » Homepage To: sseco...@yahoo.com Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:25 AM Jun 7, 2009 03:24:24 AM, michele...@aol.com wrote: Click here: Independence Expo » Homepage Hi Tobe, I hope that you had a nice birthday. This expo is taking place on Saturday, June 27, 2009. Mike, Howard, and I are going. I registered for the three of us. If you would like to join us, just register for yourself, and we will take you. I could only register for myself and 2 other people. Please let me know if you are interested. I know that we previously discussed this type of expo, and that you might be interested in it if we ever went. I hope that you are free. Take care, Michele Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile device for under $50. Take a Peek!
[TMIC] dental work
Hi All, I have been reading the posts and I hope everyone's problems have minimized as much as possible. You are all in my thoughts and prayers. I have a question for you. I need to have three implants done. Have any of you had them. Is there any problem with having titanium in ones mouth permanently? The spaces are causing me to chew on one side of my mouth which is now causing me to have TMJ. Thank you always, Tobe :O) Brooklyn NY PS Pam I love your poems!
[TMIC] Dr. Kerr
Hi TM Friends, Today Dr. Kerr spoke at the 92nd Street Y in Manhattan NYC. There were about fifty or more people in attendance. I sat right up front in the first row. First Donna Jackson Nakazawa spoke about the increase in auto immune illnesses. She made us realize the importance of "going green" in our daily lives. The products we use are so loaded with chemicals which trigger our immune system into thinking we are the bad guys. Diet, cleansers, cosmetics all contribute to illness. Of course stress is a major factor which leaks cortisol into our bodies. She used the word autogenic in the same way we use the word carcenogenic. Doug spoke about many auto immune diseases, in fact I think I was the only one there with TM. Many trials are being done with MS. They named so many different diseases. He also talked about stem cell research. I asked him what was being done about pain related to TM, and he just said they were working on it. I don't think, at this point in my life, I would be a candidate for stem cells, however I really would love to see some serious research to help the horrible nerve pain, instead of all those medications. He mentioned Project Restore at Johns Hopkins for more information. Doug also talked about Cody Unser and the work the two of them are doing in Washington. We spoke a little after the lecture and he seems to think things are ready to go if we can only get through the politics. Let's hope our new president will lead the way. Take care all. Tobe :O) Brooklyn NY
[TMIC] hand controls
Dear Group, I want to thank everyone who suggested I use hand controls. I am very embarrassed to say that I did try them soon after I came home from the hospital, thinking the independence would be great for me. Unfortunately I am too uncoordinated.. even though I was telling my brain my hands were now in control, the message would go to my feet. I couldn't figure it out! I was actually in a minor accident so I decided to forget about driving and concentrate on walking!!! The roads are alot safer without me on them. Always with love and appreciation, Tobe Brooklyn NY :O)
[TMIC] another story
Hi Everyone, I have another story about how a "friend" interpreted our illness. Unfortunately I can no longer drive due to TM. I can't feel my feet. So I applied for and received a special permit that allows me to put up to ten license numbers on it. I listed several friends who take me places and they can park at meters without paying or on alternate side days. One "friend" asked me if she could borrow it and not knowing how to say no I lent it to her. She continued to ask me for it and I said I can't. I could lose the priviledge and it is not meant to lend out. She asked me whom did I know to get a permit like that and passed the word around that I was selfish. Lately I find people very annoying Tobe Brooklyn NY :O)
Re: [TMIC] Anybody else been there?
Rob, you said what I have always thought and felt. My brother said those exact words to me over a year ago and they still come back to haunt me. I don't say much on the list however I read it everyday and am so thankful for it. Tobe :O) Brooklyn NY --- On Wed, 11/19/08, Robert Pall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Robert Pall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [TMIC] Anybody else been there? To: "tmic" Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2008, 9:59 AM My wife has been sick for around 5 days with a sore throat/cough (she is getting better). Anyway she asks me last night if I ever recall her feeling bad this long……what I should have answered was "no"…which is true….but instead I answered "imagine how it feels to be sick for more than 11 years"…her reply was "why does it always have to be about you?"…I apologized and just answered her question with a resounding NO! The point of this story is to show that even the people closest to us really have no idea how TM effects our daily life. How even the easiest things are now hard…and for the most part I (we) complain rarely and just go about our day dealing with our condition to the best of our ability. When we had the NJ TM support group on 11/2 I requested that the TM'rs bring their spouses or parents..hoping hearing from others would enlighten them in dealing with us. I would never wish TM on anyone (well maybe Bin Laden) but if our friends and loved ones could feel how we feel for just 5 minutes then they would be able to better relate. This will not happen and that is why this list and support groups are so important. We have a forum where we can discuss our TM related problems to people who truly understand! Just my thought for the day! Rob in New Jersey
[TMIC] hi
ok, I usually don't report many things that happen to me however I'm wondering if this may be happening to others. Since I don't actually know where my feet are I have been having mucho problems with my feet. This summer I had to have surgery to remove the bone in my second toe because the bones were causing friction and I was getting one infection after the other. When the bone was removed I had both a staph and a strep infection in it and had to go on mega antibiotics. Now that the bone is gone it seems I am getting irritations near the bunion area. I hope I won't need surgery there, because I also have to find a hand specialist for that ole trigger finger which is still bothering me but I am choosing to ignore it for now. After the summer I needed a vacation so I went to Eastern Europe for 3 weeks, met my oldest son there for dinner and am now ready for the next Act in my life!! I hope I livened the list up a bit!!! Take care all Tobe :O) Brooklyn NY
[TMIC] no emails
have I been shooed off the list or is it just very quiet??? Tobe :O)
Re: [TMIC] new unusual symptom
Frank, can you share the exact exercises you do to alleviate the trigger in your finger??? It would be a great help to us. Thanks Tobe :O) --- On Fri, 8/22/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [TMIC] new unusual symptom To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rita Asbury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: tmic-list@eskimo.com Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 8:03 AM >He said it is trigger finger I bet that a majority of us have at least one trigger finger- my left kittle fingerb is affected. Physiotherapy twice a day keeps it working. If you don't, you'll need surgery. Is it "Major Surgery? Yes. F
Re: [TMIC] new unusual symptom
I don't really think trigger finger is related to TM. I had it in another finger about thirty years ago and the shot took care of it then. Perhaps arthritis, age, overuse all takes its toll over the years and causes it?? I think it is a fairly common ailment. Tobe :O) --- On Thu, 8/21/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [TMIC] new unusual symptom To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "Rita Asbury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, tmic-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 10:54 PM Do you guys think this is another unusual effect from having TM? T Kanon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > I also have a locked thumb. My local orthopedist gave my a shot of some steriod which KILLED me and it did nothing. He said it is trigger finger and I should see a hand specialist. I am going on vacation next week so I will explore specialists when I return. > I keep it in a splint at night however during the day he said I should 'use' it. It hurts and clicks at the knuckle. > Tobe :O) > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Rita Asbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Rita Asbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [TMIC] new unusual symptom > To: tmic-list@eskimo.com > Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 12:51 PM > > Hi everyone. I have recently been experiencing my thumb getting stuck in a > curled in position. It usualy lasts for a few moments and I can't move it > out of the curled postion. Today it happened with my pointer finger on the same > hand and when it happened i had a pain deep in my fore arm. I immedaitely began > massaging my forearm and after a few moments my finger began to move and my arm > is bit sore now...Has anyone had this to? > Rita > > >
Re: [TMIC] new unusual symptom
Hi Everyone, I also have a locked thumb. My local orthopedist gave my a shot of some steriod which KILLED me and it did nothing. He said it is trigger finger and I should see a hand specialist. I am going on vacation next week so I will explore specialists when I return. I keep it in a splint at night however during the day he said I should 'use' it. It hurts and clicks at the knuckle. Tobe :O) --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Rita Asbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Rita Asbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [TMIC] new unusual symptom To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 12:51 PM Hi everyone. I have recently been experiencing my thumb getting stuck in a curled in position. It usualy lasts for a few moments and I can't move it out of the curled postion. Today it happened with my pointer finger on the same hand and when it happened i had a pain deep in my fore arm. I immedaitely began massaging my forearm and after a few moments my finger began to move and my arm is bit sore now...Has anyone had this to? > Rita
[TMIC] Donna Jackson Nakazawa
The names of her books are: 1.The Autoimmune Epidemic: Bodies Gone Haywire in a World Out of Balance 2. The Cutting Edge Science that Promises Hope Tobe :O)
[TMIC] dr. kerr
Hello Everyone, New York has a famous Y in Manhattan appropriately called the 92nd Street Y. I get the catalogue and was perusing it the other day, and lo and behold what do I see On Sunday February 8, 2009 there will be a discussion on the autoimmune epidemic. One of the guest speakers our own Dr. Kerr. The other speaker is Donna Jackson Nakazawa, an author of books on the subject. It is a long way off however these fill up fast. I hope to attend. Stay well. Tobe Brooklyn NY
[TMIC] marajuana
Hi Everyone, There is a very interesting article about medical marajuana in the July 28th issue of The New Yorker magazine. Check it out. Tobe :O)
[TMIC] tm
Hi Everyone, I had just turned 52 when I was dealt this hand. It seems so many of us were in our fifties. However I must admit I challenge myself so much, I don't think I would care as much to be so active had I not come down with tm. Now it is almost like my own private mission to push my limitations. Does anyone understand what I mean? Thank you to all for the birthday wishes!!! Tobe :O) Brooklyn NY
[TMIC] Brazil
Dear TM Family, I left for Brazil on March 24. My family doctor who is an infectous disease specialist suggested that I DO NOT take the shot for yellow fever so I did not!!! BTW, I´m still in Brazil and will be returning on April 5th. I and five friends landed in Rio and from then on referred to ourselves as the girls from Ipanema. I am having the most awesome time. I am challenging myself to do things that I probably would not do if I was able bodied!!! I took a cable car up Sugar Loaf mountain, toured the city which is so beautiful and ate, ate, ate,. I am now in Iguassu Falls. I walked the cat walk to the Argentina side, took the boat ride which literally goes under the falls and today I took a helicopter ride over the falls. I was so scared doing each of these things but what a great feeling afterward. Having wonderful friends who were always there to give me a hand and encourage me made the difference. I used bug spray with DEET which I don´t like but I felt protected. All those who are deciding whether or not to travael.I say DO IT!!! I ´m not home yet and still can´t believe the experiences I´m having. Am I dreaming?? Stay well everyone, Tobe Foz do Iguaçu Brazil - You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
[TMIC] Unidentified subject!
Hi Everyone, Has anyone ever taken the vaccination for yellow fever? I am planning a trip to Brazil and hear there is an outbreak of yellow fever there. I am so frustrated, I don't know what to do. Thanks guys, Tobe Brooklyn NY - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[TMIC] dental procedure
Hi TM Friends, Have any of you had dental implants or a dental post put in. I am now a candidate for either one and I'm not sure I want foreign metals imbedded in my gums. What should I do? Thank you all again for your input. Love ya. Tobe Brooklyn NY __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[TMIC] Fwd: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Note: forwarded message attached. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- Begin Message --- The original message was received at Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:00:48 -0700 from web38509.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.55] - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors - "|flist tmic-list" (reason: User unknown) (expanded from: ) - Transcript of session follows - 550 5.1.1 "|flist tmic-list"... User unknown Reporting-MTA: dns; ultra3.eskimo.com Received-From-MTA: DNS; web38509.mail.mud.yahoo.com Arrival-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:00:48 -0700 Final-Recipient: RFC822; tmic-list@eskimo.com X-Actual-Recipient: X-Unix; |flist tmic-list Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Diagnostic-Code: X-Unix; 67 Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:02:39 -0700 --- Begin Message --- Hi TM Friends, I have a question to you about a dental procedure. My mouth can no longer hold the fake tooth attached to the real tooth. My choices are a post made of metals, my dentist did not know what metals, or implants which are made of titanium. Have any of you had these procedures done? I'm a bit wary of implants. Thanks again for all your support!!! With love, Tobe :O) Brooklyn NY __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- End Message --- --- End Message ---
[TMIC] morphine pump
Dear TM Friends, Once again I'm asking you for information for a friend. He is considering getting a morphine pump for an illness unrelated to tm, but needs some feedback on the results, the procedure etc. Any information from those of you who have had pumps would be greatly appreciated. Thank you once again for all your help and opinions. Tobe Brooklyn NY :O) - Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.
[TMIC] ozone
Hi Again Thank you all for the info on ozone therapy. I am NOT going to try it but if my friend does I will let you know what happens to her. Tobe Brooklyn NY - TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
[TMIC] ozone therapy
Dear TM Friends, A friend of mine is interested in Ozone Therapy to help her ease the pain from shingles. Have any of you ever heard of this? She thought I might benefit from this also. It is an injection of ozone. It sounds pretty scary to me. Thanks everyone, Tobe Brooklyn NY - Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
[TMIC] email address
please note my address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you Tobe - Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
[TMIC] Fwd: [Fwd: Marijuana as wonder drug]
Note: forwarded message attached. - The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.--- Begin Message --- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/03/04 Sun PM 12:59:48 CST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Marijuana as wonder drug Marijuana as wonder drug http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/03/01/marijuana_as_wonder_drug By Lester Grinspoon Lester Grinspoon, an emeritus professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, is the coauthor of "Marijuana, the Forbidden Medicine." A NEW STUDY in the journal Neurology is being hailed as unassailable proof that marijuana is a valuable medicine. It is a sad commentary on the state of modern medicine -- and US drug policy -- that we still need "proof" of something that medicine has known for 5,000 years. The study, from the University of California at San Francisco, found smoked marijuana to be effective at relieving the extreme pain of a debilitating condition known as peripheral neuropathy. It was a study of HIV patients, but a similar type of pain caused by damage to nerves afflicts people with many other illnesses including diabetes and multiple sclerosis. Neuropathic pain is notoriously resistant to treatment with conventional pain drugs. Even powerful and addictive narcotics like morphine and OxyContin often provide little relief. This study leaves no doubt that marijuana can safely ease this type of pain. As all marijuana research in the United States must be, the new study was conducted with government-supplied marijuana of notoriously poor quality. So it probably underestimated the potential benefit. This is all good news, but it should not be news at all. In the 40-odd years I have been studying the medicinal uses of marijuana, I have learned that the recorded history of this medicine goes back to ancient times and that in the 19th century it became a well-established Western medicine whose versatility and safety were unquestioned. From 1840 to 1900, American and European medical journals published over 100 papers on the therapeutic uses of marijuana, also known as cannabis. Of course, our knowledge has advanced greatly over the years. Scientists have identified over 60 unique constituents in marijuana, called cannabinoids, and we have learned much about how they work. We have also learned that our own bodies produce similar chemicals, called endocannabinoids. The mountain of accumulated anecdotal evidence that pointed the way to the present and other clinical studies also strongly suggests there are a number of other devastating disorders and symptoms for which marijuana has been used for centuries; they deserve the same kind of careful, methodologically sound research. While few such studies have so far been completed, all have lent weight to what medicine already knew but had largely forgotten or ignored: Marijuana is effective at relieving nausea and vomiting, spasticity, appetite loss, certain types of pain, and other debilitating symptoms. And it is extraordinarily safe -- safer than most medicines prescribed every day. If marijuana were a new discovery rather than a well-known substance carrying cultural and political baggage, it would be hailed as a wonder drug. The pharmaceutical industry is scrambling to isolate cannabinoids and synthesize analogs, and to package them in non-smokable forms. In time, companies will almost certainly come up with products and delivery systems that are more useful and less expensive than herbal marijuana. However, the analogs they have produced so far are more expensive than herbal marijuana, and none has shown any improvement over the plant nature gave us to take orally or to smoke. We live in an antismoking environment. But as a method of delivering certain medicinal compounds, smoking marijuana has some real advantages: The effect is almost instantaneous, allowing the patient, who after all is the best judge, to fine-tune his or her dose to get the needed relief without intoxication. Smoked marijuana has never been demonstrated to have serious pulmonary consequences, but in any case the technology to inhale these cannabinoids without smoking marijuana already exists as vaporizers that allow for smoke-free inhalation. Hopefully the UCSF study will add to the pressure on the US government to rethink its irrational ban on the medicinal use of mari
[TMIC] Allen Rucker
Hi Everyone, Last week I read a review of a book about TM in the New York Times. I am now reading the book and I recommend it highly. It is called The Best Seat in the House by Allen Rucker. He cites information from our own dear Sandy Siegal. Rucker has written for the HBO series the Sopranos, and at age 51 was hit with TM. Tobe Brooklyn NY - Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.
[TMIC] Fwd: [Fwd: The Best Seat in the House]
Note: forwarded message attached. - No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.--- Begin Message --- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/01/21 Sun PM 07:17:48 CST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The Best Seat in the House Amazon.com: The Best Seat in the House: How I Woke Up One Tuesday and Was Paralyzed for Life: Books: Allen Rucker --- End Message ---
[TMIC] new patch for pain
Hello Everyone, Has anyone heard of Prokarin. It was developed by a nurse with MS. Check out www.edmsllc.com Tobe Brooklyn NY Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
