Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
I am about to go to nappy time -- but since you and I are the only ones left, at this time of night (Lance will getting up in about 15 minutes !!), I will (God forbid) defend deegan on this. I have made this point eariler, I know, but if you are here on TT to figure out what we Protestants believe, then you would know that no one - including deegan -- believes that resurrection took place on or from the cross. That should go without saying -- emphasis on "without saying." Kevins statement below is, in fact , a wonderful statement of truth. You want to know what Protestants believe? Well, on this single issue, Kevin has pegged the belief. No one I know would begin to consider to argue the point below -- and this includes the RCC with their many Christ-on-the-cross symbols. They have many more empty crosses than you might imagine. jd -- Original message -- From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The EMPTY Cross declares Jesus as the Son with POWER because he Arose!DAVEH: That is what the empty cross represents to you, Kevin? Where did you come up with that story? I thought it was well understood by Christians that Jesus did not resurrect from the cross, but rather was taken from the cross and placed in a tomb. It is from that tomb that Christ arose. If you think he rose from the empty cross, you are teaching false doctrine.Kevin Deegan wrote: It does not matter what you THINK. What matters is what God has said or REVEALED! The EMPTY Cross declares Jesus as the Son with POWER because he Arose! RM 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
EXACTLY what he finds weird. DAVEH: WWJD. Have you ever wondered if Jesus feels like... I will cling to the old rugged cross .again.ordo you think he wants to be reminded of... The emblem of suffering and shame ...it he experienced on it? Do you think Jesus feels the cross Has a wondrous attraction... .For... 'twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died, which may not be something our Lord needs to be reminded about, so why do Christians think he'll.. cherish the old rugged cross, ...Unless they feel he needs to be reminded of.. The emblem of suffering and shame; ...it represents. IFF it wouldn't be surprising that Jesus would find such thinking weird, then why wouldn't Christians consider the feelings Jesus may have about the cross? Kevin Deegan wrote: Still waiting on Blaines explanation of EXACTLY what he finds weird. ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: THE OLD RUGGED CROSS On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross, The emblem of suffering and shame; And I love that old cross where the dearest and best For a world of lost sinners was slain. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross, Till my trophies at last I lay down; I will cling to the old rugged cross, And exchange it some day for a crown. O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world, Has a wondrous attraction for me; For the dear Lamb of God left His glory above To bear it to dark Calvary. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross, Till my trophies at last I lay down; I will cling to the old rugged cross, And exchange it some day for a crown. In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine, A wondrous beauty I see, For 'twas on that old cr oss Jesus suffered and died, To pardon and sanctify me. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross, Till my trophies at last I lay down; I will cling to the old rugged cross, And exchange it some day for a crown. To the old rugged cross I will ever be true; Its shame and reproach gladly bear; Then He'll call me some day to my home far away, Where His glory forever I'll share. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross, Till my t rophies at last I lay down; I will cling to the old rugged cross, And exchange it some day for a crown. Yes, a lost person would think that those lyrics are “weird”, indeed. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:11 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:42:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One of the best songs I ever heard was titled, “He Loved Me with a Cross”. iz One of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old rugged cross. :>) Blainerb Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
-- Original message -- From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> DH, your assessment of the world's point of view on this is neither accurateDAVEH: I assume you saw the picture of the cemetery with all the crosses on it, John? (If not, I've posted it below.) Do you think those crosses indicate that those buried below them are Christians? No I do not. But, the world in which we live (your picture comes from that "world") knows very well that the "cross" has a reference to Christ/Christianity. Mormons may have their own historicity on this, as they do of the New World, but the "cross" over a grave is a Christian marker. And, in fact, the ACLU just might go after this symboly, as well!! There has been such discussions. Perhaps I am wrong, but as I see it most Christians are myopic in their religious perspective . A much too general a statement to be true, I am afraid. You must know by now that the correct term is "religious perspectives" and, in such a case, "myopic" does not work, i.e. "most Christians are myopic in their many and various perspectives" just doesn't work. I think much of this is based on their Biblical steadfastness in believing in the only true living God in such a narrow sense that all others are of a minority status and their perspective is not really relevant. Again, your Christian "lump" is far too singular. Therefore, it is easy for Christians who are surrounded by other similar thinking Christians to perceive the world revolves around their Christian the ology. You are wrong, on this point, IMO. Let's lump Lance, Bill, Gary , Torrance and Barth together. One lump -- maybe Lump Numeral Uno ! but one lump. Now, because these wise men would never be identified as Mormon does not mean that the theological world revolves around their theology. For starters, each of these individuals would agree that their theology is distinctly THEIR theology (on an individual basis) --- that, as a group, the correct term should be "their theologies." The unity that is shared by these individuals is found in their high regard for the Word and their commitment to a living Christ. those two considerations are bigger than all their differing theologies. So, when most Christians see a cross, their immediate perception is one of Jesus due to their lives being immersed in Christian culture not a bad thing, by the way and hence I believe they tend to impose their presupposed believes upon others of whom they do not consider their cultural, historical or religious background. My personal view is that none on the Numero Uno list impose their beliefs on anyone. However, if any of them became Mormon, theological imposition would be the order of the day. Mormons are not alike in their theology because they are free thinking individuals in spite of the fact that they are free to think. (I have noticed a similar effect with the way many Christians impose their religious perceptions on what they think LDS folks believeand often times simply get it wrong due to their biases.) Here, I would agree. Consider that only about a third (2 billion) of the world is Christian, and two-thirds (4 billion) are non-Christian.. and only a few measly millions are Mormon !! :-)http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.htmlIf the typical person raised in the Muslim world, or in China or India sees a cemetery filled with crosses, what do you suppose they will perceive those crosses to represent...Christ? I suspect not, but rather would perceive a field of crosses planted in the ground such as thisto represent dead people of whatever belief background. I couldn't disagree more. How does Red China honor their dead? With cemetaries full of crosses? I think not. And why? The answer should be obvious. Let me ask you a question, John. Let's suppose you are walking through the above cross dotted cemetery and came across a Muslim visiting the grave of one of his Muslim friends buried there. You begin chatting with him and he asks you a question."Why did they put a cross above my Muslim friend's body?" I doubt that you would tell him that the cross means the guy beneath it is a Christian..Not a likely scenario, DH. Not at all. You give me a quarter for every Muslim grave marked without a cross and I will give you a hundred bucks for every Muslim grave with a cross and let's see who gets to retire first !!! Now Bishop, I don't mind if you still disagree with me on thi s, as I'm sure you have a strong emotional attachment to the cross. But considerIF you believe those above crosses represent the Christians who are buried there, and I don't then how many of those crosses represent Mormon Christians buried beneath them? Not relevant since "I don't."There have been more tha
Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **
fact DAVEH: ??? To what fact are you referring, Kevin? I remember Dean accidentally publicly posting an email about John (as I remember) that he apparently thought he sent to you under the table, but Blaine and I haven't done such. While I've copied many of the pertinent posts to Blaine during the period he was off-Forum, we don't exchange strategies with each other, and seldom even send off-forum comments to each other. So...why would you imply it is a fact that we do some things thru private emails "under the table, when the evidence instead suggests that it is you and Dean who use such tactics? Was it Dean who suggested that if a person is critical of another's nature, it might be that the accuser is hiding something? NawI don't think he said anything like that, as it might have made him feel guilty. ;-) Kevin Deegan wrote: in fact it is the LDS folk who have made comments and done some things thru private emails "under the table" -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
You OFFEND Jesus Christ DAVEH: Do you suppose the same could be said of those idolizing crosses? Kevin Deegan wrote: You OFFEND Jesus Christ I almost thought you were serious in your Apology till Now, if I may, I would like to ask for an apology from anyone who supported waving Mormon underclothing in public by the street preachers at general conference in Salt Lake City. And, the same for those who more recently have denigrated Mormon handshakes, and other sacred symbols on TT. And the same for those who have insisted on spelling "Mormon" with a lower-case letter. :>) What is fair is fair, huh? Blainerb -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
DAVEH: Oh-oh.I am surprised you would post such damning evidence of the Christian hypocrisy being fostered on TT, Perry. Note that Peter's cross... http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/peter.html .looks suspiciously similar to Satan's cross. And, it is actually described as.. St. Peter's Cross, also known as Satan's Cross .Some TTers are critical of LDS symbols that are similar to those used by satanic cults, yet it is obvious that Christians have done likewise. Why the double standard, Perry? Charles Perry Locke wrote: check out these crosses: http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/index.html -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
The EMPTY Cross declares Jesus as the Son with POWER because he Arose! DAVEH: That is what the empty cross represents to you, Kevin? Where did you come up with that story? I thought it was well understood by Christians that Jesus did not resurrect from the cross, but rather was taken from the cross and placed in a tomb. It is from that tomb that Christ arose. If you think he rose from the empty cross, you are teaching false doctrine. Kevin Deegan wrote: It does not matter what you THINK. What matters is what God has said or REVEALED! The EMPTY Cross declares Jesus as the Son with POWER because he Arose! RM 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross, The First Church and Mormonism
And stars have absolutely nothing to do with the Christian faith -- biblically speaking, of course. It is Mormon doctrine that the First Church was correct in its dealings (a wonderfully legalistic conclusion, by the way, but one which we will not argue at this time). In "Luke" and "Acts" we have the gospel and history of the First Church -- the one that you folks think was the Right Church. All of the remaining New Textament scriptures with the possible exception of the writings of the Apostle John are or were written during this Age of the Perfect First Church. So , what do we have? We have a Mormon population that believes the Frist Church was The Right Church; we have a full record of the Gospel of that First Church, a 37 (plus or minus) year historical record of that First Chruch INCLUDED IN WHAT WE ALL CONSIDER TO BE "SCRIPTURE," and , as an added bonus, we have the instructional materials used to both sturcture this First Church and give it its basic teachings all this before the church wentapostate !!! That being true .. we should expect to find the Mormon church identical to that of the First Church as recorded in biblical scripture.. but this is clearly not the case. Trading the cross for a star as we attempt to convey what was most important to the First Church and its concept of the incarnate and ascended Christ of God is the extension of nothing biblical and represents a clear departure from the teachings of the First [and Perfect -- according to your doctrine] Church. When you argue that the Mormon Church is the re-establishment of the first and pre-apostate church , you are necessarily making the argument that the Mormon Church is the re-established church of biblical scripture -- which it clearly is not. Trading the cross for a star is representative of this failed thinking, IMO. jd -- Original message -- From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Again, Blaine, I point out that the cross is not seen or used as a symbol > for jesus. Do you understand that? > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross > >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:22:51 EST > > > >In a message dated 12/13/2005 9:03:40 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > >Then why put them on the "House of the lord"? > > > >Blainerb: Hmm, well it goes like this, Kevin: One of the names of Jesus > >Christ is "The Bright and Morning Star."' He has also been called > >Wonderful, > >Counselor, the King of Heaven, the Creator, the Prince of Peace, the Lamb > >of God, etc. Have you ever heard or read about him bein g called "the > >cross?" > > or, "The old Rugged Cross?" > > Stars are higher than crosses. Stars are more beautiful than crosses. > >Stars represent where we want to be after we leave this Vail of Tears. > >Most > >Christians would like it better if we put crosses on our temples. But we > >don't > >because, we are trying to be more like Jesus, and he was perhaps the most > >independently minded person to walk the earth. We are not trying to be > >like > >everyone else, we are simply doing what we think most appropriate, > >considering > >we idolize and worship Jesus Christ. We like stars better than > >crosses--why > >is that an arrow in your side? Why does that offend you? > > > > > > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Congressional Medal of Honor--inverted pentagram
The cross, to the Christian, is a reminder of the tremendous price that Jesus paid DAVEH: Which price is torturous pain, suffering and death. That is exactly what the cross represents, is that not correct Perry? Charles Perry Locke wrote: Blaine, you seem to be missing a fine point here. Christians do not use crosses as a symbol of Jesus, like mormons do with stars and planets. The cross, to the Christian, is a reminder of the tremendous price that Jesus paid for our sins. BIG difference. Perry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
DH, your assessment of the world's point of view on this is neither accurate DAVEH: I assume you saw the picture of the cemetery with all the crosses on it, John? (If not, I've posted it below.) Do you think those crosses indicate that those buried below them are Christians? Perhaps I am wrong, but as I see it most Christians are myopic in their religious perspective. I think much of this is based on their Biblical steadfastness in believing in the only true living God in such a narrow sense that all others are of a minority status and their perspective is not really relevant. Therefore, it is easy for Christians who are surrounded by other similar thinking Christians to perceive the world revolves around their Christian theology. So, when most Christians see a cross, their immediate perception is one of Jesus due to their lives being immersed in Christian culture, and hence I believe they tend to impose their presupposed believes upon others of whom they do not consider their cultural, historical or religious background. (I have noticed a similar effect with the way many Christians impose their religious perceptions on what they think LDS folks believeand often times simply get it wrong due to their biases.) Consider that only about a third (2 billion) of the world is Christian, and two-thirds (4 billion) are non-Christian.. http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html If the typical person raised in the Muslim world, or in China or India sees a cemetery filled with crosses, what do you suppose they will perceive those crosses to represent...Christ? I suspect not, but rather would perceive a field of crosses planted in the ground such as this. ...to represent dead people of whatever belief background. Let me ask you a question, John. Let's suppose you are walking through the above cross dotted cemetery and came across a Muslim visiting the grave of one of his Muslim friends buried there. You begin chatting with him and he asks you a question."Why did they put a cross above my Muslim friend's body?" I doubt that you would tell him that the cross means the guy beneath it is a Christian.. Now Bishop, I don't mind if you still disagree with me on this, as I'm sure you have a strong emotional attachment to the cross. But considerIF you believe those above crosses represent the Christians who are buried there, then how many of those crosses represent Mormon Christians buried beneath them? There have been more than a few TTers who want to deny LDS folks the right to call themselves Christians. Now it seems some of those same anti-Mormons want to claim that having a cross planted over their dead bodies indicates they are now Christians? Before death, those who do not subscribe to some TTers' theology are pagan and not worthy of the Christian monikerThen plant a cross over their grave and suddenly they become Christian because of the symbol above their bodies??? What changed?.let me answer that, JD.just death. Which is what I am sayingthe cross represents death. or relevant. DAVEH: I respectfully disagree with you on that, Pastor. Some TTers criticize LDS theology for using symbols that to us represent Jesus in all his glory. That those symbols may be similar in some ways to symbols used by other pagan groups really doesn't matter. Nor does it seem to matter that many Christians have adopted pagan symbols to represent Christian principles and beliefs. To us, the meaning of our symbols is clean, pure and relevant to our theology, belief and faith in our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Does it bother you in the least when TTers attack us for our sacred symbols? I suspect not, but I could be wrong. However, when I acutely and truthfully point out that the cross was a devilish device constructed by the enemies of God to torture and kill his son, and then correctly point out that there are a lot of people buried beneath crosses who those same critical TTers would never consider to be Christians...then I am criticized for denigrating the cross, and those who believe in the cross. Doesn't that seem just a little bit hypocritical to you, John? Mormon TTers are just expected to take critical comments made on TT and be ashamed of their inferior beliefs, and not expected to point out the deficiencies in the logic of those TTers who are critical of Mormonism. Is this not a prime example of Christian hypocrisy? To me it seems like a double standard, and that IMHO Paster is imminently relevant! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes ! and , by the way, DH, your assessment of the world's point of view on this is neither accurate or relevant. and this statement borders on insulting: One of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
times and dates??? -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The Mormon pageant in NY is for Gentile consumption and is Squeaky clea, everything is veiled. BUT go to Manti UT and see a pageant where they MOCK Christians, cause it is for Mormon consumptionJudy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Might as well admit it Blaine - you Mormon boys have been sprung. You've got yourselves in a mess over this one. This is exactly what happened with my little friend in Newfoundland Canada. Two good looking Mormon Missionaries had her and her friend snowed. They said they were born again Christians and she was a baby in the faith so at first she didn't know the difference The boys took Roseanne and her friend out bowling and when a (for Christians) well loved hymn came on over the sound system these good looking Mormon boys began to mock it This was when the lights came on for my friend and their missionary endeavors were over - to late for her, she already knew the Truth and darkness had lost it's cover. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:44:00 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now Kevin, we don't despise crosses, we just like stars better. :>) Blainerb In a message dated 12/13/2005 6:12:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The cats out of the bag: Christians Glory in the cross you dispise it since you are of those that the Bible says are ENEMIES of the Cross whose END is DESTRUCTION! Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Ph 3 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) You are an example of those that mind earthly things such as your LUSTFUL MIND. What specifically is so WIERD here? Except for ENEMIES that is. On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,The emblem of suffering and shame;And I love that old cross where the dearest and bestFor a world of lost sinners was slain. Refrain So Iâll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,Has a wondrous attraction for me;For the dear Lamb of God left His glory aboveTo bear it to dark Calvary. Refrain In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,A wondrous beauty I see,For âtwas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,To pardon and sanctify me. Refrain To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;Its shame and reproach gladly bear;Then Heâll call me some day to my home far away,Where His glory forever Iâll share. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
..think about this Christine--it'll get you saved On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:24:53 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..yep, its essentially dualistic in a certain crucial kinda way--and JC explicitly forbids it: On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:09:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..typical of western fundamentalists, [to] have two oft stated doctrinal matrices/antithetical reference points, & the economix of [such] conservatism requires both: that [ppl] serve God & mammon equally energetically simultaneously, else [they] ain't truly red white and blue On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:37:08 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: yo--leaving jt speechless for a spell, how many doctrinal demands do you detect in your own mind set? tell us how you decide/d this: is it none? one? more than one? On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:45:51 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:27:35 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: jt met a bear. The bear met jt The bear was bulgy. The bulge was jt[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: while there's (partic jts) doctrinal demandS, then there's more than one requirement for meaning (even in her own mind) On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: || No but, people will continue to do so. jt Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands?
Re: [TruthTalk]
a veeeyy intear-esting question. -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] bullseye!! --and (e.g.) Blaine's faith, is therefore, in what, Pastor? how could it be (in) the word of God? On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 05:07:34 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..the Mormon religion , at this point, reads so very differently from the biblical text || jd
Re: [TruthTalk]
a veeeyy intear-esting question. -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] bullseye!! --and (e.g.) Blaine's faith, is therefore, in what, Pastor? how could it be (in) the word of God? On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 05:07:34 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..the Mormon religion , at this point, reads so very differently from the biblical text || jd
Re: [TruthTalk]
a veeeyy intear-esting question. -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] bullseye!! --and (e.g.) Blaine's faith, is therefore, in what, Pastor? how could it be (in) the word of God? On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 05:07:34 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..the Mormon religion , at this point, reads so very differently from the biblical text || jd
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
..yep, its essentially dualistic in a certain crucial kinda way--and JC explicitly forbids it: On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:09:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..typical of western fundamentalists, [to] have two oft stated doctrinal matrices/antithetical reference points, & the economix of [such] conservatism requires both: that [ppl] serve God & mammon equally energetically simultaneously, else [they] ain't truly red white and blue On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:37:08 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: yo--leaving jt speechless for a spell, how many doctrinal demands do you detect in your own mind set? tell us how you decide/d this: is it none? one? more than one? On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:45:51 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:27:35 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: jt met a bear. The bear met jt The bear was bulgy. The bulge was jt[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: while there's (partic jts) doctrinal demandS, then there's more than one requirement for meaning (even in her own mind) On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: || No but, people will continue to do so. jt Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands?
Re: [TruthTalk]
bullseye!! --and (e.g.) Blaine's faith, is therefore, in what, Pastor? how could it be (in) the word of God? On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 05:07:34 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..the Mormon religion , at this point, reads so very differently from the biblical text || jd
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
..typical of western fundamentalists, you have two oft stated doctrinal matrices/antithetical reference points, & the economix of your conservatism requires both: that you serve God & mammon equally energetically simultaneously, else you ain't truly red white and blue On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:37:08 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: yo--leaving jt speechless for a spell, how many doctrinal demands do you detect in your own mind set? tell us how you decide/d this: is it none? one? more than one? On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:45:51 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:27:35 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: jt met a bear. The bear met jt The bear was bulgy. The bulge was jt[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: while there's (partic jts) doctrinal demandS, then there's more than one requirement for meaning (even in her own mind) On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: || No but, people will continue to do so. jt Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands?
[TruthTalk]
The symbolism is so much more precise and meaningful -- comparing a star to the cross !!! It is more than telling that the Mormon religion , at this point, reads so very differently from the biblical text ... and I do not think we are simply discussing the opinion of a couple of good Mormons. If you (all) believe in the concept of "scripture" and include the biblical text in this thinking, I would be asking how it is that the biblical scriptures carry such a differing emphasis on so many issues from the remaining and distinctly Mormon scriptures. Pretty disappointing to me, I must admit. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
Self rejection happens when children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When one is raised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making it difficult to understand or receive the love of God. The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully made. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: Hi Terry, I don't know that any of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that. What he did say is that he didn't know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before the Lord. I would say the same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just as sinful as the ignorance that comes with pride... either way it is all self, self, self, self. judyt judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off...
you're welcome--ftr, objective and intellectually engaging tutoring services available through yours truly come highly recommended to say the least humbly E.g., my sons are both aces in college in KS--one a chemist, the other a communications major/teacher who's an O lineman on their nationally rankd conf champ football team--both say they appreciate/d expert tutoring through public school when they were younger..now they write occasionally to inquire about other subjects in my preferred area/s of expertise (besides pass and run blocking and poetic antiA-bomb critiques..g>).. On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:24:36 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: ..it would be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the discussions..
Re: [TruthTalk] DAVE HANSEN COMMENTS 'OLD RUGGED CROSS' WIERD, NEGATIVE, LORD NOT FOND OF ..
What you've said misrepresents the Lord, us and, the entire history of Christianity!! DAVEH: You've lost me on this one, Lance. Since you didn't quote my offending remarks, I hesitate to take credit for them, or alternatively apologize for them. Just what was it I said to offend you, Lance??? Lance Muir wrote: UNANIMITY!. Dave, you've just brought all of together over this one issue! What you've said misrepresents the Lord, us and, the entire history of Christianity!! Please apologize, Lance -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
We have already established that I have failed the test Kev. Now we is talkin' 'bout you. Kevin Deegan wrote: Doing your part to Edify? "Let me know so that I can feel edified" "Congratulations on doing so well." Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Not a tendancy, Kev. Just commenting on the obvious. How did you score? Let me know so that I can feel edified. Kevin Deegan wrote: I guess that when one is doing "miserably" there is always a tendancy to that natural blindness that sees everyone else must be also. Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am not judging you Judy. I asked everyone here to judge themselves. Evidently you have given this much consideration and are well satisfied with yourself. That surprises me, but then you know yourself better than I do. Congratulations on doing so well. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
Could you explain what you mean by self rejection? Judy Taylor wrote: Hi Terry, I don't know that any of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that. What he did say is that he didn't know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before the Lord. I would say the same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just as sinful as the ignorance that comes with pride... either way it is all self, self, self, self. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
Hi Terry, I don't know that any of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that. What he did say is that he didn't know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before the Lord. I would say the same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just as sinful as the ignorance that comes with pride... either way it is all self, self, self, self. judyt On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:06:48 -0600 Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I am not judging you Judy. I asked everyone here to judge themselves. Evidently you have given this much consideration and are well satisfied with yourself. That surprises me, but then you know yourself better than I do. Congratulations on doing so well.TerryJudy Taylor wrote: According to your scale of measure Terry - and assuming you know everything there is to know about the one you are judging. However, only God actually sees and knows the heart and you are judging by how it appears outwardly ... Jesus himself would not have appeared too humble on the day He weilded those cords in the temple either according to the outward look of humility and neither would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the places where he barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what the ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am not about to call what He has done in my life a "miserable failure" You should have seen/known me before. Tell me - what does "boldness to speak the truth" look like? and remember that love covers a multitude of sin ... If you think we are missing it don't stone us, pray for us. There is responsibility on both sides and only one Judge. It's impossible to function while all the time examining one's own navel for fear of offending. judyt On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object or focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to id
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
Doing your part to Edify? "Let me know so that I can feel edified""Congratulations on doing so well."Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Not a tendancy, Kev. Just commenting on the obvious. How did you score? Let me know so that I can feel edified.Kevin Deegan wrote: I guess that when one is doing "miserably" there is always a tendancy to that natural blindness that sees everyone else must be also.Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am not judging you Judy. I asked everyone here to judge themselves. Evidently you have given this much consideration and are well satisfied with yourself. That surprises me, but then you know yourself better than I do. Congratulations on doing so well.TerryJudy Taylor wrote: According to your scale of measure Terry - and assuming you know everything there is to know about the one you are judging. However, only God actually sees and knows the heart and you are judging by how it appears outwardly ... Jesus himself would not have appeared too humble on the day He weilded those cords in the temple either according to the outward look of humility and neither would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the places where he barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what the ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am not about to call what He has done in my life a "miserable failure" You should have seen/known me before. Tell me - what does "boldness to speak the truth" look like? and remember that love covers a multitude of sin ... If you think we are missing it don't stone us, pray for us. There is responsibility on both sides and only one Judge. It's impossible to function while all the time examining one's own navel for fear of offending. judyt On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the objector focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
Not a tendancy, Kev. Just commenting on the obvious. How did you score? Let me know so that I can feel edified. Kevin Deegan wrote: I guess that when one is doing "miserably" there is always a tendancy to that natural blindness that sees everyone else must be also. Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am not judging you Judy. I asked everyone here to judge themselves. Evidently you have given this much consideration and are well satisfied with yourself. That surprises me, but then you know yourself better than I do. Congratulations on doing so well. Terry Judy Taylor wrote: According to your scale of measure Terry - and assuming you know everything there is to know about the one you are judging. However, only God actually sees and knows the heart and you are judging by how it appears outwardly ... Jesus himself would not have appeared too humble on the day He weilded those cords in the temple either according to the outward look of humility and neither would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the places where he barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what the ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am not about to call what He has done in my life a "miserable failure" You should have seen/known me before. Tell me - what does "boldness to speak the truth" look like? and remember that love covers a multitude of sin ... If you think we are missing it don't stone us, pray for us. There is responsibility on both sides and only one Judge. It's impossible to function while all the time examining one's own navel for fear of offending. judyt On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts. I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing? Terry ShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object or focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us. Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross or garden?
Now Kevin, we don't despise crosses, we just like stars better. :>) Blainerb Jesus paid for all our sins when He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane. Laurel Rohlfing, Sharing Time: The Atonement, Friend, Mar. 1989, 39 "The Savior atoned for our sins by suffering in Gethsemane and by giving his life on the cross. It is impossible for us to fully understand how he suffered for all of our sins. In the Garden of Gethsemane, the weight of our sins caused him to feel such agony and heartbreak that be bled from every pore (see D&C 19:18-19). " Gospel Principles, Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1979, pg. 66 BYU professor Robert J. Matthews, who on page 282 of his book, A Bible! A Bible!, wrote, It was in Gethsemane, on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, that Jesus made his perfect atonement by the shedding of his blood-more so than on the cross. Apostle Bruce McConkie, stated, Where and under what circumstances was the atoning sacrifice of the Son of God made? Was it on the Cross of Calvary or in the Garden of Gethsemane? It is to the Cross of Christ that most Christians look when centering their attention upon the infinite and eternal atonement. And certainly the sacrifice of our Lord was completed when he was lifted up by men; also, that part of his life and suffering is more dramatic and, perhaps, more soul stirring. But in reality the pain and suffering, the triumph and grandeur, of the atonement took place primarily in Gethsemane, (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary 1:774) The Savior began shedding His blood for all mankind, not on the cross but in the Garden of Gethsemane. (Russell M. Nelson, His Mission and Ministry, New Era, Dec. 1999) we are Reconciled thru the cross Col 1:20 having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself Eph 2:16 that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross Our debt nailed to the cross Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross He bore our sins on the cross 1 Pt 2 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now Kevin, we don't despise crosses, we just like stars better. :>) Blainerb In a message dated 12/13/2005 6:12:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The cats out of the bag: Christians Glory in the cross you dispise it since you are of those that the Bible says are ENEMIES of the Cross whose END is DESTRUCTION! Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Ph 3 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) You are an example of those that mind earthly things such as your LUSTFUL MIND. What specifically is so WIERD here? Except for ENEMIES that is. On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,The emblem of suffering and shame;And I love that old cross where the dearest and bestFor a world of lost sinners was slain. Refrain So Iâll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,Has a wondrous attraction for me;For the dear Lamb of God left His glory aboveTo bear it to dark Calvary. Refrain In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,A wondrous beauty I see,For âtwas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,To pardon and sanctify me. Refrain To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;Its shame and reproach gladly bear;Then Heâll call me some day to my home far away,Where His glory forever Iâll share. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
I guess that when one is doing "miserably" there is always a tendancy to that natural blindness that sees everyone else must be also.Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am not judging you Judy. I asked everyone here to judge themselves. Evidently you have given this much consideration and are well satisfied with yourself. That surprises me, but then you know yourself better than I do. Congratulations on doing so well.TerryJudy Taylor wrote: According to your scale of measure Terry - and assuming you know everything there is to know about the one you are judging. However, only God actually sees and knows the heart and you are judging by how it appears outwardly ... Jesus himself would not have appeared too humble on the day He weilded those cords in the temple either according to the outward look of humility and neither would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the places where he barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what the ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am not about to call what He has done in my life a "miserable failure" You should have seen/known me before. Tell me - what does "boldness to speak the truth" look like? and remember that love covers a multitude of sin ... If you think we are missing it don't stone us, pray for us. There is responsibility on both sides and only one Judge. It's impossible to function while all the time examining one's own navel for fear of offending. judyt On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the objector focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
perhaps you are not worthy or ready for the Full truth? Apostle Packer There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not. Apostle Russel M. Nelson: "Indeed, in some instances, the merciful companion to truth is silence. Some truths are best left unsaid." http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon376.htm Part 1 begins with a post from a Mormon disguising himself as a Mormon investigator (a term used by Mormons for one who is thinking of joining Mormonism and is taking the Mormon missionary discussions) and the responses. The original topic was baptism for the dead, a Mormon practice in temples. It is an excellent example of how Mormon apologists will employ deceit. He is a self appointed Mormon apologist. His spelling and grammar are left intact Part 2 begins with a thread about the Mormon tactic of lying to get converts. Mormon missionaries and Mormons attempting to convert others to Mormonism will leave out essential information. These are lies by omission. There was a couple in my old ward. The husband was a convert and everyone was trying to get his wife to join. They had been trying for a few years to have children, and many people told mysterious stories about a woman in their old ward who got baptized, and 2 months later got pregnant. It seems everybody had the same story, but it happened in another ward far away - on their mission - or some other place that was impossible to verify.Finally, I confronted a member about this because the stories were all similar. "What old ward?" I asked her. "You've been in this ward for decades."Her reply? "I know it will happen if she gets baptized, so it's ok. Besides, I'm sure it's happened before - and I felt inspired to tell her that."Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Might as well admit it Blaine - you Mormon boys have been sprung. You've got yourselves in a mess over this one. This is exactly what happened with my little friend in Newfoundland Canada. Two good looking Mormon Missionaries had her and her friend snowed. They said they were born again Christians and she was a baby in the faith so at first she didn't know the difference The boys took Roseanne and her friend out bowling and when a (for Christians) well loved hymn came on over the sound system these good looking Mormon boys began to mock it This was when the lights came on for my friend and their missionary endeavors were over - to late for her, she already knew the Truth and darkness had lost it's cover. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:44:00 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now Kevin, we don't despise crosses, we just like stars better. :>) Blainerb In a message dated 12/13/2005 6:12:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The cats out of the bag: Christians Glory in the cross you dispise it since you are of those that the Bible says are ENEMIES of the Cross whose END is DESTRUCTION! Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Ph 3 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) You are an example of those that mind earthly things such as your LUSTFUL MIND. What specifically is so WIERD here? Except for ENEMIES that is. On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,The emblem of suffering and shame;And I love that old cross where the dearest and bestFor a world of lost sinners was slain. Refrain So Iâll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,Has a wondrous attraction for me;For the dear Lamb of God left His glory aboveTo bear it to dark Calvary. Refrain In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,A wondrous beauty I see,For âtwas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,To pardon and sanctify me. Refrain To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;Its shame and reproach gladly bear;Then Heâll call me some day to my home far away,Where His glory forever Iâll share. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
The Mormon pageant in NY is for Gentile consumption and is Squeaky clea, everything is veiled. BUT go to Manti UT and see a pageant where they MOCK Christians, cause it is for Mormon consumptionJudy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Might as well admit it Blaine - you Mormon boys have been sprung. You've got yourselves in a mess over this one. This is exactly what happened with my little friend in Newfoundland Canada. Two good looking Mormon Missionaries had her and her friend snowed. They said they were born again Christians and she was a baby in the faith so at first she didn't know the difference The boys took Roseanne and her friend out bowling and when a (for Christians) well loved hymn came on over the sound system these good looking Mormon boys began to mock it This was when the lights came on for my friend and their missionary endeavors were over - to late for her, she already knew the Truth and darkness had lost it's cover. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:44:00 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now Kevin, we don't despise crosses, we just like stars better. :>) Blainerb In a message dated 12/13/2005 6:12:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The cats out of the bag: Christians Glory in the cross you dispise it since you are of those that the Bible says are ENEMIES of the Cross whose END is DESTRUCTION! Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Ph 3 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) You are an example of those that mind earthly things such as your LUSTFUL MIND. What specifically is so WIERD here? Except for ENEMIES that is. On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,The emblem of suffering and shame;And I love that old cross where the dearest and bestFor a world of lost sinners was slain. Refrain So Iâll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,Has a wondrous attraction for me;For the dear Lamb of God left His glory aboveTo bear it to dark Calvary. Refrain In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,A wondrous beauty I see,For âtwas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,To pardon and sanctify me. Refrain To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;Its shame and reproach gladly bear;Then Heâll call me some day to my home far away,Where His glory forever Iâll share. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
Is this talk just more FALSE PIETY? Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the objector focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
RE: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
symbols of religious belief should never be denigrated. Nice Worldly Philosophy too bad God does not buy into it! 2 chr 14 For he took away the altars of the strange gods, and the high places, and brake down the images, and cut down the groves: and a desecrator of GRAVES! 2 chr 34 And they brake down the altars of Baalim in his presence; and the images, that were on high above them, he cut down; and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images, he brake in pieces, and made dust of them, and strewed it upon the graves of them that had sacrificed unto them. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Cross Blainerb: Crosses, or any other symbols of religious belief should never be denigrated. But I still like stars better as symbols for Jesus Christ, especially "the Bright and Morning Star." That star (Venus) symbolizes the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ," as it appears first in the evening, then gets lost (buried) behind the sun, and then later appears on the eastern horizon preceding the sun as the morning star. The symbolism is so much more precise and meaningful. In a message dated 12/13/2005 8:00:49 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Its because satan cant stand the Cross. Every true cult denigrates the Cross. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:35 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: Dave HansenSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross DH, I am surprised at your comments against the cross. Is your thinking the reason why you folks have a stick atop your buildings rather than a cross? jd __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
I am not judging you Judy. I asked everyone here to judge themselves. Evidently you have given this much consideration and are well satisfied with yourself. That surprises me, but then you know yourself better than I do. Congratulations on doing so well. Terry Judy Taylor wrote: According to your scale of measure Terry - and assuming you know everything there is to know about the one you are judging. However, only God actually sees and knows the heart and you are judging by how it appears outwardly ... Jesus himself would not have appeared too humble on the day He weilded those cords in the temple either according to the outward look of humility and neither would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the places where he barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what the ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am not about to call what He has done in my life a "miserable failure" You should have seen/known me before. Tell me - what does "boldness to speak the truth" look like? and remember that love covers a multitude of sin ... If you think we are missing it don't stone us, pray for us. There is responsibility on both sides and only one Judge. It's impossible to function while all the time examining one's own navel for fear of offending. judyt On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts. I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing? Terry ShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object or focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us. Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute. Terry judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
RE: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Same fatherShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Isnt it interesting that the mormon viewpoint about the Cross is the same as the JWitnesses? They also think of it as an ugly symbol. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]But we still think the cross as a visible symbol of Jesus falls short of what He stands for--the most important of which is resurrection to life in the Kingdom of God--God's life. We do not think that is adequately represented by a cross. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Congressional Medal of Honor--inverted pentagram
BIG amen. Charles Perry Locke wrote: Blaine, you seem to be missing a fine point here. Christians do not use crosses as a symbol of Jesus, like mormons do with stars and planets. The cross, to the Christian, is a reminder of the tremendous price that Jesus paid for our sins. BIG difference. Perry -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
By the way your CONTENTION was the stars are in "different positions" I said they are either upward or downward pointing You just avoided the issue after your FALSE Statements. Was it a willfull attempt to mislead? Wrong Kevin, Satanic stars are ALL inverted. The ones on the temple are not all inverted, but scattered in different positions to give variety.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin wrote: All the 5 pointed stars are either ONE point up or One point down as in the Inverted pentagram, or the CLOVEN HOOF of Satan! Some are Elongated DOWN NONE are Elongated up! (I think Kevin means if the point is down, it is a goat's head, if it is up, it is a cloven hoof.) Blainerb: At first you were saying only inverted stars were satanic, now you are saying all five-pointed stars are satanic. Make up your mind, Kevin. You are just changing your position to try to "prove" that all the stars on the Mormon temples are satanic. Are you having fun playing games with us? I am tired of this silliness. You must think we can't remember from one post to the next what you say. You can write more about this nonsense if you like, Kevin, but I doubt I will be replying to it. In a message dated 12/13/2005 9:29:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:There may be some that are not 5 pointed I am not sure that there is a Total absence of any other than 5 POINTED stars Could you post one that is not a pentagram and what Temple is it on? Nauvoo Temple PENTAGRAM Window casement All the 5 pointed stars are either ONE point up or One point down as in the Inverted pentagram or CLOVEN HOOF of Satan! Some are Elongated DOWN NONE are Elongated up! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Wrong Kevin, Satanic stars are ALL inverted. The ones on the temple are not all inverted, but scattered in different positions to give variety. In a message dated 12/12/2005 9:39:36 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic BibleDAVEH: I just googled images looking for that and did not see it, Kevin. Can you give me a URL (or post an image) for what you are talking about.Kevin Deegan wrote: Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!! Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
You might try reading some of the posts then you would not get so mixed up First you argue Joe did not meet on sucessive dates of the Autumn equinox Proof was provided from History of the Church Your book and now MUM is the word huh? Then the sign is not the Cloven Hoof of Satan Now it is complaints about pentagrams Go back and read and you will see multiple posts which quote Witches etc saying upward stars are used in white MAGIC downward are used in BLACK MAGIC. NOBODY is changing position except you The proof is in the pudding do I need to repost some of the old posts that you did not comprehend? Since you have NO Answers you will assign this to the NON SENSE category [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin wrote: All the 5 pointed stars are either ONE point up or One point down as in the Inverted pentagram, or the CLOVEN HOOF of Satan! Some are Elongated DOWN NONE are Elongated up! (I think Kevin means if the point is down, it is a goat's head, if it is up, it is a cloven hoof.) Blainerb: At first you were saying only inverted stars were satanic, now you are saying all five-pointed stars are satanic. Make up your mind, Kevin. You are just changing your position to try to "prove" that all the stars on the Mormon temples are satanic. Are you having fun playing games with us? I am tired of this silliness. You must think we can't remember from one post to the next what you say. You can write more about this nonsense if you like, Kevin, but I doubt I will be replying to it. In a message dated 12/13/2005 9:29:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:There may be some that are not 5 pointed I am not sure that there is a Total absence of any other than 5 POINTED stars Could you post one that is not a pentagram and what Temple is it on? Nauvoo Temple PENTAGRAM Window casement All the 5 pointed stars are either ONE point up or One point down as in the Inverted pentagram or CLOVEN HOOF of Satan! Some are Elongated DOWN NONE are Elongated up! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Wrong Kevin, Satanic stars are ALL inverted. The ones on the temple are not all inverted, but scattered in different positions to give variety. In a message dated 12/12/2005 9:39:36 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic BibleDAVEH: I just googled images looking for that and did not see it, Kevin. Can you give me a URL (or post an image) for what you are talking about.Kevin Deegan wrote: Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!! Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
According to your scale of measure Terry - and assuming you know everything there is to know about the one you are judging. However, only God actually sees and knows the heart and you are judging by how it appears outwardly ... Jesus himself would not have appeared too humble on the day He weilded those cords in the temple either according to the outward look of humility and neither would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the places where he barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what the ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am not about to call what He has done in my life a "miserable failure" You should have seen/known me before. Tell me - what does "boldness to speak the truth" look like? and remember that love covers a multitude of sin ... If you think we are missing it don't stone us, pray for us. There is responsibility on both sides and only one Judge. It's impossible to function while all the time examining one's own navel for fear of offending. judyt On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object or focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Temple projecting evil
It is right next to the satanic Bible by Anton Lavey ; )[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is Kevin, where did the photo of the star with 666 on it come from? We have discussed stars, we know there are stars on LDS temples, but no Mormon recalls seeing any stars with 666 written them on the temples or any other LDS buildings. You are obviously suggesting it came from an LDS source. You need to give us a specific reference and URL for where this photo came from. Blainerb In a message dated 12/13/2005 9:04:20 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Christus room in the North visitors center SLC Church History Museum Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic BibleDAVEH: I just googled images looking for that and did not see it, Kevin. Can you give me a URL (or post an image) for what you are talking about.Kevin Deegan wrote: Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!! Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Again, Blaine, I point out that the cross is not seen or used as a symbol for jesus. Do you understand that? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:22:51 EST In a message dated 12/13/2005 9:03:40 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then why put them on the "House of the lord"? Blainerb: Hmm, well it goes like this, Kevin: One of the names of Jesus Christ is "The Bright and Morning Star."' He has also been called Wonderful, Counselor, the King of Heaven, the Creator, the Prince of Peace, the Lamb of God, etc. Have you ever heard or read about him being called "the cross?" or, "The old Rugged Cross?" Stars are higher than crosses. Stars are more beautiful than crosses. Stars represent where we want to be after we leave this Vail of Tears. Most Christians would like it better if we put crosses on our temples. But we don't because, we are trying to be more like Jesus, and he was perhaps the most independently minded person to walk the earth. We are not trying to be like everyone else, we are simply doing what we think most appropriate, considering we idolize and worship Jesus Christ. We like stars better than crosses--why is that an arrow in your side? Why does that offend you? -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Congressional Medal of Honor--inverted pentagram
Blaine, you seem to be missing a fine point here. Christians do not use crosses as a symbol of Jesus, like mormons do with stars and planets. The cross, to the Christian, is a reminder of the tremendous price that Jesus paid for our sins. BIG difference. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Congressional Medal of Honor--inverted pentagram Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:08:15 EST Blainerb: I guess I will have to spell it out for Kevin. He doesn't seem to get it. It goes like this: If the top brass in the Honorable US military can use inverted pentagrams for the nation's highest honor medal, without worrying about being accused of indulging in Satanism, how is it that Mormon higher-ups cannot do the same? As I have said, I like stars better than crosses for symbols of Jesus Christ anyway. Apparently the designers of Mormon temples do too. In a message dated 12/13/2005 8:55:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The US Military is not the SOURCE of ALL Truth nor the RESTORATION of such. As the conduit of Truth for all men of what significance are Inverted Pentagrams on the LDS Temples? Why did the symbology of the OT Jewish Temple point at ALL Times to a SACRIFICE? Where are the "star symbols" on the temple talked about in the Bible? Chap Verse? Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Medalsofhonor.jpg) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Medalsofhonor.jpg) Three different United States Medals of Honor currently exist, one each for the Army, Navy, and Air Force. Blainerb: According to Kevin, the Medals of Honor shown here should be classified as symbols of Satanism, since they are inverted pentagrams!!! -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
But we still think the cross as a visible symbol of Jesus falls short of what He stands for--the most important of which is resurrection to life in the Kingdom of God--God's life. We do not think that is adequately represented by a cross. It does not matter what you THINK. What matters is what God has said or REVEALED! The EMPTY Cross declares Jesus as the Son with POWER because he Arose! RM 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Blainerb: There are quite a few "cross" songs in the LDS hymnbook. It is not a bad word, it is just the context in which it is used. We believe in "taking up our cross," so to speak, which means we give up the pleasures of the world, and are even willing to suffer if necessary to live more righteously. But we still think the cross as a visible symbol of Jesus falls short of what He stands for--the most important of which is resurrection to life in the Kingdom of God--God's life. We do not think that is adequately represented by a cross. Now stars, whether pentagrams or whatever, obviously fill the bill, since that's where we hope to be--in heaven, where the stars are at. :>) Stars make for an excellent symbol of Jesus Christ, whereas a cross is dubious at best. In a message dated 12/13/2005 5:56:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why did the LDS "CHOIR" sing songs about the Cross you dispise at general Conference last October?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:42:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One of the best songs I ever heard was titled, ââ¬ÅHe Loved Me with a Crossââ¬Â. izOne of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old rugged cross. :>) Blainerb Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Might as well admit it Blaine - you Mormon boys have been sprung. You've got yourselves in a mess over this one. This is exactly what happened with my little friend in Newfoundland Canada. Two good looking Mormon Missionaries had her and her friend snowed. They said they were born again Christians and she was a baby in the faith so at first she didn't know the difference The boys took Roseanne and her friend out bowling and when a (for Christians) well loved hymn came on over the sound system these good looking Mormon boys began to mock it This was when the lights came on for my friend and their missionary endeavors were over - to late for her, she already knew the Truth and darkness had lost it's cover. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:44:00 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now Kevin, we don't despise crosses, we just like stars better. :>) Blainerb In a message dated 12/13/2005 6:12:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The cats out of the bag: Christians Glory in the cross you dispise it since you are of those that the Bible says are ENEMIES of the Cross whose END is DESTRUCTION! Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Ph 3 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) You are an example of those that mind earthly things such as your LUSTFUL MIND. What specifically is so WIERD here? Except for ENEMIES that is. On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,The emblem of suffering and shame;And I love that old cross where the dearest and bestFor a world of lost sinners was slain. Refrain So I’ll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,Has a wondrous attraction for me;For the dear Lamb of God left His glory aboveTo bear it to dark Calvary. Refrain In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,A wondrous beauty I see,For ’twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,To pardon and sanctify me. Refrain To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;Its shame and reproach gladly bear;Then He’ll call me some day to my home far away,Where His glory forever I’ll share. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
check out these crosses: http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/index.html From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:39:55 EST Blainerb: There are quite a few "cross" songs in the LDS hymnbook. It is not a bad word, it is just the context in which it is used. We believe in "taking up our cross," so to speak, which means we give up the pleasures of the world, and are even willing to suffer if necessary to live more righteously. But we still think the cross as a visible symbol of Jesus falls short of what He stands for--the most important of which is resurrection to life in the Kingdom of God--God's life. We do not think that is adequately represented by a cross. Now stars, whether pentagrams or whatever, obviously fill the bill, since that's where we hope to be--in heaven, where the stars are at. :>) Stars make for an excellent symbol of Jesus Christ, whereas a cross is dubious at best. In a message dated 12/13/2005 5:56:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why did the LDS "CHOIR" sing songs about the Cross you dispise at general Conference last October? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:42:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One of the best songs I ever heard was titled, ââ¬ÅHe Loved Me with a Crossâ⬠Â. iz One of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old rugged cross. :>) Blainerb -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts. I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing? Terry ShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object or focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us. Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute. Terry judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
RE: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Isn’t it interesting that the mormon viewpoint about the Cross is the same as the JWitnesses? They also think of it as an ugly symbol. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] But we still think the cross as a visible symbol of Jesus falls short of what He stands for--the most important of which is resurrection to life in the Kingdom of God--God's life. We do not think that is adequately represented by a cross.
RE: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Except it is not Biblical. (Not that you would care.) iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:39 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Cross Blainerb: Crosses, or any other symbols of religious belief should never be denigrated. But I still like stars better as symbols for Jesus Christ, especially "the Bright and Morning Star." That star (Venus) symbolizes the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ," as it appears first in the evening, then gets lost (buried) behind the sun, and then later appears on the eastern horizon preceding the sun as the morning star. The symbolism is so much more precise and meaningful. In a message dated 12/13/2005 8:00:49 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It’s because satan can’t stand the Cross. Every true cult denigrates the Cross. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:35 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: Dave Hansen Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross DH, I am surprised at your comments against the cross. Is your thinking the reason why you folks have a stick atop your buildings rather than a cross? jd
RE: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
You would disparage the suffering and shame our Savior endured on our behalf, Blaine? Obviously it means little to you. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:28 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Cross Izzy wrote: Yes, a lost person would think that those lyrics are “weird”, indeed. iz Blainerb: Well, not totally weird, but a bit too sentimental for me considering the "ol' Rugged Cross" was, as the first stanza indicates, "The emblem of suffering and shame;"
RE: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
It’s good enough for me. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:16 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil Do they teach reading where you're from Izzie? How 'bout 'rithmatic? And Spellling? Blainerb: In a message dated 12/13/2005 7:48:45 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I can actually read. And I believe in knowing your enemy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:05 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil Blainerb: You seem to know a lot more than I do about satanic pentagrams . . . where did you learn so much? :>)
RE: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
Very perceptive, jt. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object or focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us. Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute. Terry judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Congressional Medal of Honor--inverted pentagram
worrying about being accused of indulging in Satanism Got a GUILTY CONSCIENCE? I never said you are indulging, just asked forty or fifty times Why do you have Satanic symbols on the temple? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Blainerb: I guess I will have to spell it out for Kevin. He doesn't seem to get it. It goes like this: If the top brass in the Honorable US military can use inverted pentagrams for the nation's highest honor medal, without worrying about being accused of indulging in Satanism, how is it that Mormon higher-ups cannot do the same? As I have said, I like stars better than crosses for symbols of Jesus Christ anyway. Apparently the designers of Mormon temples do too. In a message dated 12/13/2005 8:55:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The US Military is not the SOURCE of ALL Truth nor the RESTORATION of such. As the conduit of Truth for all men of what significance are Inverted Pentagrams on the LDS Temples? Why did the symbology of the OT Jewish Temple point at ALL Times to a SACRIFICE? Where are the "star symbols" on the temple talked about in the Bible? Chap Verse? Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Three different United States Medals of Honor currently exist, one each for the Army, Navy, and Air Force. Blainerb: According to Kevin, the Medals of Honor shown here should be classified as symbols of Satanism, since they are inverted pentagrams!!! Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
You OFFEND Jesus Christ I almost thought you were serious in your Apology till Now, if I may, I would like to ask for an apology from anyone who supported waving Mormon underclothing in public by the street preachers at general conference in Salt Lake City. And, the same for those who more recently have denigrated Mormon handshakes, and other sacred symbols on TT. And the same for those who have insisted on spelling "Mormon" with a lower-case letter. :>) What is fair is fair, huh? Blainerb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm, JD is right, denigrating the symbols of another's religious beliefs was wrong. I apologize--apparently I offended JD, although I did so unthinkingly and without intention. It just came off the top of my head. Sometimes we get too caught up in proving our opinions and beliefs are more valid than every one else's, and I think I may have done just that. Now, if I may, I would like to ask for an apology from anyone who supported waving Mormon underclothing in public by the street preachers at general conference in Salt Lake City. And, the same for those who more recently have denigrated Mormon handshakes, and other sacred symbols on TT. And the same for those who have insisted on spelling "Mormon" with a lower-case letter. :>) What is fair is fair, huh? Blainerb In a message dated 12/13/2005 8:37:10 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Yes ! and , by the way, DH, your assessment of the world's point of view on this is neither accurate or relevant. and this statement borders on insulting: One of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old rugged cross. :>) Blainerb I have to say something here -- both of you have made it clear (and I am not angry , by the way) that your stay here on TT has given you nothing in terms of reason for crossing over. Well, consider your failure in this regard, as well. With as much variety as exists here amongst us Christians, you would think someone would consider the Mormon religion. But this latest discussion, while revealing, would surely close the door to any serious student of the Bible. To put down "death" and the "cross" is to simply miss the point of the life of Christ here on this earth .. and miss the mark by a wide margin !!! jd Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Congressional Medal of Honor--inverted pentagram
TWENTY FIVE Pictures of Military Medals and Flags are IRRELEVANT Please do not post TWENTY FIVE MORE Answer the questions Why divining rods? Why secret handshakes like the sure sign of the NAIL? Why do you have satanic symbols? Seer Stones? Magic Parchments? Magic Circles? Black Sheep Sacrificed? More on request[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Blainerb: I guess I will have to spell it out for Kevin. He doesn't seem to get it. It goes like this: If the top brass in the Honorable US military can use inverted pentagrams for the nation's highest honor medal, without worrying about being accused of indulging in Satanism, how is it that Mormon higher-ups cannot do the same? As I have said, I like stars better than crosses for symbols of Jesus Christ anyway. Apparently the designers of Mormon temples do too. In a message dated 12/13/2005 8:55:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The US Military is not the SOURCE of ALL Truth nor the RESTORATION of such. As the conduit of Truth for all men of what significance are Inverted Pentagrams on the LDS Temples? Why did the symbology of the OT Jewish Temple point at ALL Times to a SACRIFICE? Where are the "star symbols" on the temple talked about in the Bible? Chap Verse? Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Three different United States Medals of Honor currently exist, one each for the Army, Navy, and Air Force. Blainerb: According to Kevin, the Medals of Honor shown here should be classified as symbols of Satanism, since they are inverted pentagrams!!! Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
BlainerbTWO: Crosses, or any other symbols of religious belief should never be denigrated. One of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old rugged cross. :>) BlainerbONE That star (Venus) symbolizes the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ," as it appears first in the evening, then gets lost (buried) behind the sun, and then later appears on the eastern horizon preceding the sun as the morning star. The symbolism is so much more precise and meaningful. All heresy comes from what man thinks devoid of What God HAS SAID! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Blainerb: Crosses, or any other symbols of religious belief should never be denigrated. But I still like stars better as symbols for Jesus Christ, especially "the Bright and Morning Star." That star (Venus) symbolizes the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ," as it appears first in the evening, then gets lost (buried) behind the sun, and then later appears on the eastern horizon preceding the sun as the morning star. The symbolism is so much more precise and meaningful. In a message dated 12/13/2005 8:00:49 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Itâs because satan canât stand the Cross. Every true cult denigrates the Cross. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:35 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: Dave HansenSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross DH, I am surprised at your comments against the cross. Is your thinking the reason why you folks have a stick atop your buildings rather than a cross? jd __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN ...
. . . Lance Lobs one right over your head . .[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In a message dated 12/13/2005 6:01:00 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.Good thought, Lance. But what about Dean? Maybe we better check and see if his mother's name was Mary, huh? Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
RE: [TruthTalk]
I don’t even know where to start. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 2:34 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] I still do not see where John was anti anyone. If he is, I may unknowingly be guilty of the same, so please tell us both where we need to modify our thinking. Thanks in advance. Terry ShieldsFamily wrote: Your personal encounters with one Jew or another is irrelevant. History should not be distorted by anit-semites. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:44 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] It might benefit us all, Iz, if you would point out the error in John's thinking. Not all of us have the benefit of a close relationship with a Jewish believer. None of the jewish guys I ever knew or worked with were anything that would please the Lord. Terry ShieldsFamily wrote: Jd, your lack of understanding of the Jews is appalling, as demonstrated by every post you write about them. Why not try learning about them instead of speculating out of thin air? I’m talking HUGE lack of understanding—HUGE! iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:30 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Probably no interest on this one, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Isreal claims ancestry through Abraham to God. But there was no Israel from the beginning of earth's history to around 1600 BC or so. The Egyptians had their own culture, religion and mythology. The Jews really had no national identity at all. If if if the Egyptians had incorporated these people into their society in the early years, there would have been no Israel of God --- or, at the very least, Egyptian mythology and culture would have survived in Israel. But, the very fact of continued bondage IMO created an "us versus them" psychology that prevented Israel from being lost in the sea of Egyptian nuance. Their escape from Egypt was that of a people needing Divine help at the most basic levels of national existence. . They had no law or national structure. Their God of the past 400 years (of bondage) was a God of tradition and little more. We are talking about 2 to 3 million people (so some assert) leaving Egypt with absolutely no where to go, no way to survive militarily , a culture of bondage and defeat as the National Story, And when they got to the Red Sea, reality hit them between the eyes. This defeatist attitude becomes a part of their tradition and , perhaps, is an aspect of their repeated rebellion. It is almost as if they are the Divine Stepchild and they really don't care for this identiy. Does this have anything to do with fact that do not approach God as "Father God" ?? And what is Moses doing with the writing of Genesis if not collecting the oral traditions in an effort at presenting Iseal (this brandnew nation) with a history that it can claim as its own??? Perhaps he begins with the Beginning because this was the perfect place to start. .. contrasting the Egyptian mythologies of the beginnings of man with an account of a sovereign God and His creation. These Jews, freah out of Egypt, most definitely knew of the Egyptian stories. The contrast would have been startling. Whatever. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
Kevin wrote: All the 5 pointed stars are either ONE point up or One point down as in the Inverted pentagram, or the CLOVEN HOOF of Satan! Some are Elongated DOWN NONE are Elongated up! (I think Kevin means if the point is down, it is a goat's head, if it is up, it is a cloven hoof.) Blainerb: At first you were saying only inverted stars were satanic, now you are saying all five-pointed stars are satanic. Make up your mind, Kevin. You are just changing your position to try to "prove" that all the stars on the Mormon temples are satanic. Are you having fun playing games with us? I am tired of this silliness. You must think we can't remember from one post to the next what you say. You can write more about this nonsense if you like, Kevin, but I doubt I will be replying to it. In a message dated 12/13/2005 9:29:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There may be some that are not 5 pointed I am not sure that there is a Total absence of any other than 5 POINTED stars Could you post one that is not a pentagram and what Temple is it on? Nauvoo Temple PENTAGRAM Window casement All the 5 pointed stars are either ONE point up or One point down as in the Inverted pentagram or CLOVEN HOOF of Satan! Some are Elongated DOWN NONE are Elongated up! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wrong Kevin, Satanic stars are ALL inverted. The ones on the temple are not all inverted, but scattered in different positions to give variety. In a message dated 12/12/2005 9:39:36 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic BibleDAVEH: I just googled images looking for that and did not see it, Kevin. Can you give me a URL (or post an image) for what you are talking about.Kevin Deegan wrote: Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!!
RE: [TruthTalk]
Who are these "anti-semites?" -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Your personal encounters with one Jew or another is irrelevant. History should not be distorted by anit-semites. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:44 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] It might benefit us all, Iz, if you would point out the error in John's thinking. Not all of us have the benefit of a close relationship with a Jewish believer. None of the jewish guys I ever knew or worked with were anything that would please the Lord.TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Jd, your lack of understanding of the Jews is appalling, as demonstrated by every post you write about them. Why not try learning about them instead of speculating out of thin air? Im talking HUGE lack of understandingHUGE! iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:30 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Probably no interest on this one, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Isreal claims ancestry through Abraham to God. But there was no Israel from the beginning of earth's history to around 1600 BC or so. The Egyptians had their own culture, religion and mythology. The Jews really had no national identity at all. If if if the Egyptians had incorporated these people into their society in the early years, there would have been no Israel of God --- or, at the very least, Egyptian mythology and culture would have survived in Israel. But, the very fact of continued bondage IMO created an "us versus them" psychology that prevented Israel from being lost in the sea of Egyptian nuance. Their escape from Egypt was that of a people needing Divine help at the most basic levels of national existence. . They had no law or national structure. Their God of the past 400 years (of bondage) was a God of tradition and little more. We are talking about 2 to 3 million people (so some assert) leaving Egypt with absolutely no where to go, no way to survive militarily , a culture of bondage and defeat as the National Story, And when they got to the Red Sea, reality hit them between the eyes. This def eatist attitude becomes a part of their tradition and , perhaps, is an aspect of their repeated rebellion. It is almost as if they are the Divine Stepchild and they really don't care for this identiy. Does this have anything to do with fact that do not approach God as "Father God" ?? And what is Moses doing with the writing of Genesis if not collecting the oral traditions in an effort at presenting Iseal (this brandnew nation) with a history that it can claim as its own??? Perhaps he begins with the Beginning because this was the perfect place to start. .. contrasting the Egyptian mythologies of the beginnings of man with an account of a sovereign God and His creation. These Jews, freah out of Egypt, most definitely knew of the Egyptian stories. The contrast would have been startling. Whatever. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Temple projecting evil
The question is Kevin, where did the photo of the star with 666 on it come from? We have discussed stars, we know there are stars on LDS temples, but no Mormon recalls seeing any stars with 666 written them on the temples or any other LDS buildings. You are obviously suggesting it came from an LDS source. You need to give us a specific reference and URL for where this photo came from. Blainerb In a message dated 12/13/2005 9:04:20 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Christus room in the North visitors center SLC Church History Museum Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic BibleDAVEH: I just googled images looking for that and did not see it, Kevin. Can you give me a URL (or post an image) for what you are talking about.Kevin Deegan wrote: Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!!
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
In a message dated 12/13/2005 9:03:40 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then why put them on the "House of the lord"? Blainerb: Hmm, well it goes like this, Kevin: One of the names of Jesus Christ is "The Bright and Morning Star."' He has also been called Wonderful, Counselor, the King of Heaven, the Creator, the Prince of Peace, the Lamb of God, etc. Have you ever heard or read about him being called "the cross?" or, "The old Rugged Cross?" Stars are higher than crosses. Stars are more beautiful than crosses. Stars represent where we want to be after we leave this Vail of Tears. Most Christians would like it better if we put crosses on our temples. But we don't because, we are trying to be more like Jesus, and he was perhaps the most independently minded person to walk the earth. We are not trying to be like everyone else, we are simply doing what we think most appropriate, considering we idolize and worship Jesus Christ. We like stars better than crosses--why is that an arrow in your side? Why does that offend you?
Re: [TruthTalk] Congressional Medal of Honor--inverted pentagram
Blainerb: I guess I will have to spell it out for Kevin. He doesn't seem to get it. It goes like this: If the top brass in the Honorable US military can use inverted pentagrams for the nation's highest honor medal, without worrying about being accused of indulging in Satanism, how is it that Mormon higher-ups cannot do the same? As I have said, I like stars better than crosses for symbols of Jesus Christ anyway. Apparently the designers of Mormon temples do too. In a message dated 12/13/2005 8:55:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The US Military is not the SOURCE of ALL Truth nor the RESTORATION of such. As the conduit of Truth for all men of what significance are Inverted Pentagrams on the LDS Temples? Why did the symbology of the OT Jewish Temple point at ALL Times to a SACRIFICE? Where are the "star symbols" on the temple talked about in the Bible? Chap Verse? Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Three different United States Medals of Honor currently exist, one each for the Army, Navy, and Air Force. Blainerb: According to Kevin, the Medals of Honor shown here should be classified as symbols of Satanism, since they are inverted pentagrams!!!
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Hmmm, JD is right, denigrating the symbols of another's religious beliefs was wrong. I apologize--apparently I offended JD, although I did so unthinkingly and without intention. It just came off the top of my head. Sometimes we get too caught up in proving our opinions and beliefs are more valid than every one else's, and I think I may have done just that. Now, if I may, I would like to ask for an apology from anyone who supported waving Mormon underclothing in public by the street preachers at general conference in Salt Lake City. And, the same for those who more recently have denigrated Mormon handshakes, and other sacred symbols on TT. And the same for those who have insisted on spelling "Mormon" with a lower-case letter. :>) What is fair is fair, huh? Blainerb In a message dated 12/13/2005 8:37:10 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes ! and , by the way, DH, your assessment of the world's point of view on this is neither accurate or relevant. and this statement borders on insulting: One of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old rugged cross. :>) Blainerb I have to say something here -- both of you have made it clear (and I am not angry , by the way) that your stay here on TT has given you nothing in terms of reason for crossing over. Well, consider your failure in this regard, as well. With as much variety as exists here amongst us Christians, you would think someone would consider the Mormon religion. But this latest discussion, while revealing, would surely close the door to any serious student of the Bible. To put down "death" and the "cross" is to simply miss the point of the life of Christ here on this earth .. and miss the mark by a wide margin !!! jd
Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN ...
In a message dated 12/13/2005 8:36:52 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I Jo 1:8; Ro 3:23 All have sinned -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hmm, let me think on it, Iz.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Blainerb: Crosses, or any other symbols of religious belief should never be denigrated. But I still like stars better as symbols for Jesus Christ, especially "the Bright and Morning Star." That star (Venus) symbolizes the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ," as it appears first in the evening, then gets lost (buried) behind the sun, and then later appears on the eastern horizon preceding the sun as the morning star. The symbolism is so much more precise and meaningful. In a message dated 12/13/2005 8:00:49 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It’s because satan can’t stand the Cross. Every true cult denigrates the Cross. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:35 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: Dave HansenSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross DH, I am surprised at your comments against the cross. Is your thinking the reason why you folks have a stick atop your buildings rather than a cross? jd
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
cd: Difference is that the lower point isn't elongated as the Satanists and Mormons use. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/12/2005 10:46:54 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil "Universally accepted symbol for Satan?" What about the Congressional Medal of Honor??? Please note the pentagrams, all pointing downward THE MEDAL OF HONOR The highest award for valor in action against an enemy force which can be bestowed upon an individual serving in the Armed Services of the United States... --> LEARN MORE-- NEWS In a message dated 12/12/2005 8:17:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't let your mind accept what your eyes see. It may look like the satanic star, it may have the same proportions as the satanic Star. it may align with the satanic star in every way if we overlay them, But it can not be a Satanic star since you say so. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! look this way & repeat after me "I know the church is true" Avert your eyes look away that is not the universally accepted symbol for Satan. repeat after me.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
cd: I have pictures of inverted stars at SLC-Kevin is speaking with honesty. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/12/2005 10:24:12 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil Blainerb: If Kevin were honest with TT'rs, he would tell you the truth--the stars "plastered all over" the Salt Lake Temple, altho all five-sided, are not all inverted. Some are, some are not. They were placed there for decorative purposes, as well as symbolizing the North Star, the Morning star, the Star of Bethlehem, the Telestial Kingdom, the creations of God, etc. In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:39:12 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!!
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Izzy wrote: Yes, a lost person would think that those lyrics are “weird”, indeed. iz Blainerb: Well, not totally weird, but a bit too sentimental for me considering the "ol' Rugged Cross" was, as the first stanza indicates, "The emblem of suffering and shame;" I like stars better, even upside-down ones. Here is an old saying I like, and I think it applies to Joseph Smith and many who believe he was a true prophet: "For every hand that reaches for the stars, ten others reach up to pull it down." In a message dated 12/13/2005 7:58:37 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THE OLD RUGGED CROSS On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,The emblem of suffering and shame;And I love that old cross where the dearest and bestFor a world of lost sinners was slain. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,Has a wondrous attraction for me;For the dear Lamb of God left His glory aboveTo bear it to dark Calvary. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,A wondrous beauty I see,For 'twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,To pardon and sanctify me. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;Its shame and reproach gladly bear;Then He'll call me some day to my home far away,Where His glory forever I'll share. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. Yes, a lost person would think that those lyrics are “weird”, indeed. iz
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
Do they teach reading where you're from Izzie? How 'bout 'rithmatic? And Spellling? Blainerb: In a message dated 12/13/2005 7:48:45 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I can actually read. And I believe in knowing your enemy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:05 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil Blainerb: You seem to know a lot more than I do about satanic pentagrams . . . where did you learn so much? :>)
Re: [TruthTalk] Inverted Stars on LDS Temples
Kiddie Diversions 101 Jimmy took cookies too! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/13/2005 5:08:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The inverted pentagram is the UNIVERSAL sign for Satan The Inverted pentagran with the elogated bottom point is to symbolize the Fall of Satan All this changes of course if it is on the Temple, because it must be so. Blainerb: I guess it changes too, when used on the Congressional Medal of Honor, huh? Or on the great seal of the City of Jerusalem. Or on the American Great Star flag of 1837--1845. Guess it sort of changes anytime someone uses it for good purposes, huh? Or do you suppose they secretly intended to communicate with witches, warlocks, etc? by Steven M. Schroeder, 18 November 2000 Great Star Design (1837) - As depicted in the postage stamp, it consists of 13 stripes, blue canton with 26 5-pointed stars arranged: with one very large star in center, 5 smaller stars in each angle of center star, 5 smaller stars between each of the previous 5, and 3 yet smaller stars at each ordinal point, giving impression of a large star pointing down.Steven M. Schroeder, 18 November 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainerb: The following sites furnish the truth about Inverted stars on LDS Temples and what they mean: http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/Stars.pdf http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/pentagrams.htm Kevin, we will be awaiting your comments once your perfidy is uncovered. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Inverted stars on LDS Temples
Blainerb: I don't have the slightest idea where Kevin got the photo. It appears to be old and pretty well-worked over--I have never seen it or one like it before...Kevin? In a message dated 12/13/2005 7:11:19 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is this sign actually located somewhere on or in the Mormon temple? I would like an honest answer from someone who has been there and seen it.TerryKevin Deegan wrote: Does the temple display Satanic stars? On has only to use the eyes God gave him, or he can shut his eyes and avoid the obvious 666
Re: [TruthTalk] Ursa Major and the North Star
IBlaine, All constellations, indeed, all stars in the northern hemisphere "appear" to rotate around the north star. It truly is the rotation of the earth that gives that apparent "rotation" of the stars. Why is the Ursa Major being singled out?Check out this photo... http://courses.washington.edu/phy21456/chapter1_216complete_files/image005.jpg Blainerb: I was simply pointing out that two of the stars in the Ursa Major constellation point to Polaris, the North Star, which is a representation of Jesus Christ in Mormon theology--see below--- I liked your photo, by the way. a message dated 12/13/2005 7:03:17 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Big Dipper is an asterism that makes up part of the constellation of Ursa Major, The Big Bear. It is seen here at the lower left of the image. The Little Dipper, part of the constellation of Ursa Minor, The Little Bear, is seen at the upper right. The two stars at the end of the bowl of the Big Dipper are called the "Pointer Stars" because a line drawn between them points to Polaris, the North Star. Hold your mouse cursor over the image to see the lines that make up the Big and Little Dippers, and the line from the pointer stars to Polaris. The Big Dipper and Polaris play an important part in the story of the Underground Railroad which helped slaves escape their captivity in the southern states of the United States before the Civil War by fleeing north to Canada. The folk song "Follow the Drinking Gourd" (another name for the Big Dipper) was a coded song that gave directions on the escape route from Alabama and Mississippi. While traveling on their long escape journey, they could always tell which way was north by the location of Polaris which they could find by the pointer stars. The Big Dipper is a circumpolar constellation, which means it stays above the horizon all night long as it apparently rotates around Polaris due to the Earth's rotation. It is also comprised of very bright stars in an easy-to-locate pattern. This view shows what the northern sky looks like at about 9pm in the beginning of September. Back | Home | Next Showcase | Table of Contents | Images Index | Search Astrophotography Articles | Digital Techniques | Stories | Misc Copyright | License the Images | Email These photographs, text and web page designs are © Copyright 1974 - 2005 by Jerry Lodriguss, unless otherwise noted. All rights reserved. They may not be reproduced, published, copied or transmitted in any form, including electronically on the Internet or World Wide Web, without written permission of the author. Thank you for respecting the intellectual property rights protected by the copyright laws of the United States and new International Copyright Treaty. These images are digitally watermarked. Catching the Light Astrophotographyby Jerry LodrigussBack | Home | Next Spring ObjectsConstellationsImages Index The Big andLittle Dippers The Pointers and Polaris Mouse>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>Subject: [TruthTalk] Ursa Major and the North Star>Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:38:50 EST>>Ursa Major, Dictionary definition:>>Ursa Major (The Big Dipper)>n : a constellation outside the Zodiac that rotates around the>North Star [syn: _Great Bear_ (http://dict.die.net/great%20bear/) , Ursa>Major]
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
Your religion is RIDLED with occult Themes and you want to joke?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Blainerb: LOL The maintenance people in and around the temple wear ordinary work clothing--no red suits or pitchforks. Have you been having nightmares, or, worse yet, hallucinations? Don't let these things get to you, Kevin. You must get a hold of yourself! In a message dated 12/13/2005 4:38:11 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: LOL and the guy with the red suit & pitchfork is just the maintenance man[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainerb: If Kevin were honest with TT'rs, he would tell you the truth--the stars "plastered all over" the Salt Lake Temple, altho all five-sided, are not all inverted. Some are, some are not. They were placed there for decorative purposes, as well as symbolizing the North Star, the Morning star, the Star of Bethlehem, the Telestial Kingdom, the creations of God, etc. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Now Kevin, we don't despise crosses, we just like stars better. :>) Blainerb In a message dated 12/13/2005 6:12:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The cats out of the bag: Christians Glory in the cross you dispise it since you are of those that the Bible says are ENEMIES of the Cross whose END is DESTRUCTION! Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Ph 3 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) You are an example of those that mind earthly things such as your LUSTFUL MIND. What specifically is so WIERD here? Except for ENEMIES that is. On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,The emblem of suffering and shame;And I love that old cross where the dearest and bestFor a world of lost sinners was slain. Refrain So I’ll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,Has a wondrous attraction for me;For the dear Lamb of God left His glory aboveTo bear it to dark Calvary. Refrain In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,A wondrous beauty I see,For ’twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,To pardon and sanctify me. Refrain To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;Its shame and reproach gladly bear;Then He’ll call me some day to my home far away,Where His glory forever I’ll share.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Well Blaine?Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:You act like a guilty man trying to hedge since his wife smelled perfume on his collar! or explain away a mysterious note in his pocket. The use of this symbol by some who are not wise to its Satanic meaning is IRRELEVANT. MORMONISM is like "Masonry, like all the religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled, to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it." AFA a organization that professes to hold ALL TRUTH, why would they use the symbol used thru the ages to signify the BLACK Magic of Satan? And yes they call it the Cloven Hoof of Satan When walking on a trail it does not upset me to come upon deer prints. It does upset me to see bears prints because there may be a bear staright ahead! Satan left his foot prints all over your Religion for those who have eyes to see! JOE WAS A DIVINER and user of the ROD Jer 27 Therefore hearken not ye to your prophets, nor to your diviners, nor to your dreamers, nor to your enchanters, nor to your sorcerers, which speak unto you, saying, Ye shall not serve the king of Babylon: http://www.saintswithouthalos.com/s/d&c_8.phtml (Changed for obvious reasons in DC 34 )BC 7:3 Now this is not all, thy gift; for you have another gift, which is the gift of working with the rod "The pentacle (pentagram), the five-pointed figure, contained mystic symbols, used especially in divination and the conjuration of spirits. The pentalpha, a design formed by interlacing five A's was also in similar use. To summon demonic help, the pentagram was fashioned: a five-pointed geometric figure." "circled pentagram for white magic occult work; inverted pentagram for black magic rituals." JOE WORE A TALISMAN The "inverted pentagram is the most powerful of all Occultic talismans . . . It is alleged that it is more powerful than the Cross . . . " We are told that the inverted pentagram is "a sign for evil." "Celtic priests called it (the pentagram) the witch's foot. In the Middle Ages it became known in Britain and elsewhere in Europe as the goblin's cross, devil's sign, and the wizard's star. Among the druids of Great Britain, it was the blasphemous sign of the Godhead." Manly P. Hall, an occultist, points out that the, " . . . pentagram is used extensively in black magic, but when so used its form always differs in one of three ways: The star may be broken at one point by not permitting the converging line to touch; it may be inverted by having one point down and two up; or it may be distorted by having the points of varying length. When used in black magic, the pentagram is called 'the sign of the cloven hoof' or the footprint of the devil. The star with two points upward IS ALSO called the 'Goat of Mendes,' because the inverted star is the same shape as a goat's head. When the upright star turns and the upper point falls to the bottom, it signifies the fall of the morning star." As stated, the pentagram can be drawn with one point down or two points down. Witches, Satanists and Masons all use this symbol! Satanists the world over use the pentagram with one point down, and witches use the pentagram with two points down. Gary Jennings, in his book, "Black Magic, White Magic," reveals that: "the most powerful and respected of all magical symbols was the pentagram, the figure of five sides and five angles . . . The belief was that if this figure were drawn with a single angle . . . pointing down, the sign represented Satan and thus was used for invoking evil spirits." Max Wood states: "If you are a member of the Satanist Church, you wear one (a Pentagram). With this in mind, I was intrigued when I discovered that the Eastern Star (a Masonic organization composed of third degree Masons and women relatives of third degree Masons) uses the Pentagram with the one point down, the same symbol that the Satanists use! The Mystic Shrine (another Masonic group composed only of Masons who have advanced to the 32nd degree) also uses a Pentagram with one point down as its symbol. C.J.S. Thompson, in The Mysteries and Secrets of Magic, mentions that in India the pentacle 'is the symbol of Siva and Brahman' and Siva (or Shiva) is another name for Satan, so the pentacle (or Pentagram) is one of Satan's symbols. It's no wonder then that Satanists use it." Dick Sutphen, an openly confessed New Ager, uses the pentacle in his magical rituals. He confirms that the "pentacle (or Pentagram) holds an important place in ritual magic." and that the, " . . . history of man is the history of magic, and it has been practiced from earliest times through Druidism, the Magi, the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Jews, Knights Templar (a Masonic organ), Order of the Golden Dawn and in various organizations rig
Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off...
Is what I mentioned possible, Blaine? If not, tell me why. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off... Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:44:57 EST In a message dated 12/12/2005 9:53:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just be sure you remember your secret password and secret handshake so Joseph Smith will allow you entrance into heaven. If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! Snide comments?? Perry is being bad kid again. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Blainerb: There are quite a few "cross" songs in the LDS hymnbook. It is not a bad word, it is just the context in which it is used. We believe in "taking up our cross," so to speak, which means we give up the pleasures of the world, and are even willing to suffer if necessary to live more righteously. But we still think the cross as a visible symbol of Jesus falls short of what He stands for--the most important of which is resurrection to life in the Kingdom of God--God's life. We do not think that is adequately represented by a cross. Now stars, whether pentagrams or whatever, obviously fill the bill, since that's where we hope to be--in heaven, where the stars are at. :>) Stars make for an excellent symbol of Jesus Christ, whereas a cross is dubious at best. In a message dated 12/13/2005 5:56:55 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why did the LDS "CHOIR" sing songs about the Cross you dispise at general Conference last October?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:42:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One of the best songs I ever heard was titled, “He Loved Me with a Crossâ€. iz One of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old rugged cross. :>) Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN ...
In a message dated 12/13/2005 6:01:00 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. Good thought, Lance. But what about Dean? Maybe we better check and see if his mother's name was Mary, huh?
Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **
Kevin, we banned this topic, so if you want to discuss it further, do so offline, okay? From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment ** Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:47:32 -0800 (PST) Dean has not made any Sexually suggestive comments as you have claimed in fact it is the LDS folk who have made comments and done some things thru private emails "under the table" Again LDS response is as IRRELEVANT as yeah but the Flag has stars Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Please try to refrain from making sexual references, especially false accuastions. DAVEH: Let's see if I understand this, Perry. Recently I asked some questions that were no more sexually oriented than what you commonly make, Dean then claimed foul..and you banned further discussion based on the perception you and Dean had about what those comments might have implied. Now you have made a comment that can be perceived to be sexually charged.. If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! ..and you don't want to recognize the double standard? It is interesting that when you or other TTers make any kind of denigrating remarks toward LDS theology with sexual implications, nothing is considered off limits. When I point out this obvious double standard, I am cautioned by the moderator to refrain from bringing the discussion to the TT table under the guise of making false accusations. It must be convenient to have a moderator who can see non-LDS posters through one non-judgmental eye, and perceive a completely different perspective of LDS posters through the other, more critical eye. I suppose if one has an ax to grind against LDS theology, and is not embarrassed to publicly admit suchthen it should not surprise anybody to find that person practicing a double standard. The curious part about this is that it happens on a forum called TruthTalk, where truth is presupposed to be the dominating factor, yet it seems to be suppressed when it comes to recognizing the Christian hypocrisy found here. Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, Please try to refrain from making sexual references, especially false accuastions. This is not the forum for that? I am sure there are many discussion forums about sex if that type of discussion interests you. Perry From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Perry's Sexually Suggestive Comments Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:07:35 -0800 *If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! * DAVEH: I wonder if Dean is going to rebuke you for making such sexually suggestive comments, Perry! If not, will we then have another example of hypocritical Christianity in TT? Charles Perry Locke wrote: Just be sure you remember your secret password and secret handshake so Joseph Smith will allow you entrance into heaven. *If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! * From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off... Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:19:35 EST I guess I never got to know you, Christine--but hope to meet you in the great beyond--you may be required to testify at the Bar of God as to what you have seen and heard on TT-- Blainerb In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am signing off. I have gotten sucked into the world of TT, and I think it would be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the discussions. I have learned a great deal. May the Lord bless you and keep you all. It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not all in the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) -Christine Miller -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. - Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with s
Re: [TruthTalk] Inverted Stars on LDS Temples
Stop avoiding please tell us why it is on the Temple Why use the sure sign of the NAIL? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/13/2005 5:08:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The inverted pentagram is the UNIVERSAL sign for Satan The Inverted pentagran with the elogated bottom point is to symbolize the Fall of Satan All this changes of course if it is on the Temple, because it must be so. Blainerb: I guess it changes too, when used on the Congressional Medal of Honor, huh? Or on the great seal of the City of Jerusalem. Or on the American Great Star flag of 1837--1845. Guess it sort of changes anytime someone uses it for good purposes, huh? Or do you suppose they secretly intended to communicate with witches, warlocks, etc? by Steven M. Schroeder, 18 November 2000 Great Star Design (1837) - As depicted in the postage stamp, it consists of 13 stripes, blue canton with 26 5-pointed stars arranged: with one very large star in center, 5 smaller stars in each angle of center star, 5 smaller stars between each of the previous 5, and 3 yet smaller stars at each ordinal point, giving impression of a large star pointing down.Steven M. Schroeder, 18 November 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainerb: The following sites furnish the truth about Inverted stars on LDS Temples and what they mean: http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/Stars.pdf http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/pentagrams.htm Kevin, we will be awaiting your comments once your perfidy is uncovered. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry's Sexually Suggestive Comments
See previous post about off-line. From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry's Sexually Suggestive Comments Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:00:32 -0800 (PST) Sexually suggestive? are you now admitting your god has sex with mortal women? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! DAVEH: I wonder if Dean is going to rebuke you for making such sexually suggestive comments, Perry! If not, will we then have another example of hypocritical Christianity in TT? Charles Perry Locke wrote: Just be sure you remember your secret password and secret handshake so Joseph Smith will allow you entrance into heaven. If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off... Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:19:35 EST I guess I never got to know you, Christine--but hope to meet you in the great beyond--you may be required to testify at the Bar of God as to what you have seen and heard on TT-- Blainerb In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am signing off. I have gotten sucked into the world of TT, and I think it would be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the discussions. I have learned a great deal. May the Lord bless you and keep you all. It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not all in the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) -Christine Miller -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. - Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off...
This is real FOOLISHNESS not the CROSS! Secret High signs, Secret handshakes, Secret Names and secret Passwords will not get anyone Resurrected or into Heaven. How sad! TEMPLE OF DOOM http://www.mazeministry.com/resources/books/doombook/doomtext/16nail.htm There is one more hellish connection with these grips The Sign of the Nail and the Sure Sign of the Nail. Although it is a closely guarded secret among Luciferian initiates, a code name for Satan is "The Nail." This is because nails caused so much pain to Jesus and because of their phallic symbolism. To find this title used in the LDS endowment surprised even me. It is a grisly association at best, especially in a religion which so thoroughly rejects the cross. Satan fears the cross, but he loves being called The Nail. Blaine, PLEASE Tell us all about these CHRISTIAN SYMBOLS practised in the Temple!Sign of the NAIL (right in the wrist!) Pay Lay Ale!Secret Handshake thru the VEIL with Elohim (trying to get in to heaven) FIVE Points of "Fellowship" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/12/2005 9:53:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just be sure you remember your secret password and secret handshake so Joseph Smith will allow you entrance into heaven. If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives!Snide comments?? Perry is being bad kid again. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
You have shown again that you have NO PART in this: Gal 5 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Your 'god' is such a PIPSQUEAK that a cross killed him. NO One took his life he laid it down WILLINGLY. He was born to die 1 JN 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us God HIMSELF was the SIN Bearer the sacrifice for SINS! 1 PT 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, We are to be DEAD with ChristRM 6 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?RM 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. LOST LDS see it as foolish! 1 Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (23) But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; The cross you mock "symbol of Death" is the RC Crucfix The cross Christians talk of is an EMPTY CROSS, it is the "SYMBOL of LIFE, abundant and ETERNAL!" MK 16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Gal 6:14What did Paul mean by this? He meant to declare strongly, that he trusted in nothing but Jesus Christ crucified for the pardon of his sins and the salvation of his soul. Let others, look elsewhere for salvation. Let others, trust in other things for pardon and peace. For his part, the apostle was determined to rest on nothing, lean on nothing, build his hope on nothing, place confidence in nothing, glory in nothing, except the cross of Jesus Christ Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: enemies of the crossDAVEH: I suspect you will disagree with me on this Kevin, but I do not consider myself to be an enemy of the cross. Quite the contrary, it is simply a device used by God's enemy to kill his Beloved Son. For that reason, I do not idolize the cross or adorn my body or edifices with the cross. Most other LDS folks feel much as I do about it.preaching of the crossDAVEH: Of course.it would be wrong in my opinion to hide the historical truth of what the cross is, or what it did to Jesus. That is precisely why I am having this discussion with TTers. I think the truth of what the cross represents is an important truth that is not appreciated by most Christians. Nor I am offended by seeing a picture of a cross, as it is a well recognized symbol of death. And in the context of theology, THAT is what THE cross did to Jesus.it killed him. Remembering and recognizing such an event is extremely important to my beliefs, as it should be to all Christians' beliefs. But I do not find myself attracted to the cross in such a way that it becomes an idol, or a memorial. Nor do I think it advantageous or in good taste to prominently display such a representation of a device of torture. Now I do realize that many Christians take comfort in seeing the cross, and closely identify with it's message as they perceive it. The problem is that much of the world recognizes the cross as a symbol of death. I wonder if Christians realize that when they adorn themselves and their houses of worship with a symbol that to many people might make them think that Christianity is a religion founded in death. I prefer not to think of the gospel of Jesus Christ that way. While that is certainly an event that happened to Jesus, and will happen to each mortal who walks this earth, I don't spend much time pondering its ramifications. Why?Because Jesus broke the bonds of death, and gave us life. As do many, I don't see life in the cross. If the mother of Jesus were to see a cross after the death of her Son by means of the cross, I suspect she would not see life there either. Nor do I think she would have been pleased at such a sight of remembrance. And if Jesus himself were to view a cross, I can only think the memories it would bring him would be less than pleasant ones. taketh not his crossDAVEH: I've seen guys walking along the highway, literally identifying with this passage. While I admire their fortitude and willingness to suffer in behalf of their beliefs, I do believe they take this passage out of context to satisfy their own needs. Kevin...I can only assume that you do not take this message to the literal extreme of carrying a cross around (whether it be a heavy wooden cross as those I've seen on th
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object or focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Inverted Stars on LDS Temples
In a message dated 12/13/2005 5:08:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The inverted pentagram is the UNIVERSAL sign for Satan The Inverted pentagran with the elogated bottom point is to symbolize the Fall of Satan All this changes of course if it is on the Temple, because it must be so. Blainerb: I guess it changes too, when used on the Congressional Medal of Honor, huh? Or on the great seal of the City of Jerusalem. Or on the American Great Star flag of 1837--1845. Guess it sort of changes anytime someone uses it for good purposes, huh? Or do you suppose they secretly intended to communicate with witches, warlocks, etc? by Steven M. Schroeder, 18 November 2000 Great Star Design (1837) - As depicted in the postage stamp, it consists of 13 stripes, blue canton with 26 5-pointed stars arranged: with one very large star in center, 5 smaller stars in each angle of center star, 5 smaller stars between each of the previous 5, and 3 yet smaller stars at each ordinal point, giving impression of a large star pointing down.Steven M. Schroeder, 18 November 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainerb: The following sites furnish the truth about Inverted stars on LDS Temples and what they mean: http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/Stars.pdf http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/pentagrams.htm Kevin, we will be awaiting your comments once your perfidy is uncovered.
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
Blainerb: LOL The maintenance people in and around the temple wear ordinary work clothing--no red suits or pitchforks. Have you been having nightmares, or, worse yet, hallucinations? Don't let these things get to you, Kevin. You must get a hold of yourself! In a message dated 12/13/2005 4:38:11 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: LOL and the guy with the red suit & pitchfork is just the maintenance man[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainerb: If Kevin were honest with TT'rs, he would tell you the truth--the stars "plastered all over" the Salt Lake Temple, altho all five-sided, are not all inverted. Some are, some are not. They were placed there for decorative purposes, as well as symbolizing the North Star, the Morning star, the Star of Bethlehem, the Telestial Kingdom, the creations of God, etc.
Re: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s)
Blainerb: Oh, OK, well either way it seems to ft. :>) In a message dated 12/12/2005 10:03:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Who specifically, are we talking about here? Kevin? :>)DAVEH: No...I don't think so, Blaine. If anybody is hung up on sexual stuff, it seems like Dean gets particularly excited (that may not be the best word to describe the situation) when the topic is broached.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who specifically, are we talking about here? Kevin? :>) Blainerb In a message dated 12/12/2005 8:14:09 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Very perceptive on your part, Dean. I have noticed this to be patently true. iz Satan led people are always accuses others of the very thing they are doing..
Re: [TruthTalk]
I'm with Terry & John on this one. Sssup Iz? - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 13, 2005 15:33 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] I still do not see where John was anti anyone. If he is, I may unknowingly be guilty of the same, so please tell us both where we need to modify our thinking.Thanks in advance.TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Your personal encounters with one Jew or another is irrelevant. History should not be distorted by anit-semites. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:44 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] It might benefit us all, Iz, if you would point out the error in John's thinking. Not all of us have the benefit of a close relationship with a Jewish believer. None of the jewish guys I ever knew or worked with were anything that would please the Lord.TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Jd, your lack of understanding of the Jews is appalling, as demonstrated by every post you write about them. Why not try learning about them instead of speculating out of thin air? Im talking HUGE lack of understandingHUGE! iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:30 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Probably no interest on this one, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Isreal claims ancestry through Abraham to God. But there was no Israel from the beginning of earth's history to around 1600 BC or so. The Egyptians had their own culture, religion and mythology. The Jews really had no national identity at all. If if if the Egyptians had incorporated these people into their society in the early years, there would have been no Israel of God --- or, at the very least, Egyptian mythology and culture would have survived in Israel. But, the very fact of continued bondage IMO created an "us versus them" psychology that prevented Israel from being lost in the sea of Egyptian nuance. Their escape from Egypt was that of a people needing Divine help at the most basic levels of national existence. . They had no law or national structure. Their God of the past 400 years (of bondage) was a God of tradition and little more. We are talking about 2 to 3 million people (so some assert) leaving Egypt with absolutely no where to go, no way to survive militarily , a culture of bondage and defeat as the National Story, And when they got to the Red Sea, reality hit them between the eyes. This defeatist attitude becomes a part of their tradition and , perhaps, is an aspect of their repeated rebellion. It is almost as if they are the Divine Stepchild and they really don't care for this identiy. Does this have anything to do with fact that do not approach God as "Father God" ?? And what is Moses doing with the writing of Genesis if not collecting the oral traditions in an effort at presenting Iseal (this brandnew nation) with a history that it can claim as its own??? Perhaps he begins with the Beginning because this was the perfect place to start. .. contrasting the Egyptian mythologies of the beginnings of man with an account of a sovereign God and His creation. These Jews, freah out of Egypt, most definitely knew of the Egyptian stories. The contrast would have been startling. Whatever. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off...
In a message dated 12/12/2005 9:53:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just be sure you remember your secret password and secret handshake so Joseph Smith will allow you entrance into heaven. If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! Snide comments?? Perry is being bad kid again.
Re: [TruthTalk]
I still do not see where John was anti anyone. If he is, I may unknowingly be guilty of the same, so please tell us both where we need to modify our thinking. Thanks in advance. Terry ShieldsFamily wrote: Your personal encounters with one Jew or another is irrelevant. History should not be distorted by anit-semites. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:44 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] It might benefit us all, Iz, if you would point out the error in John's thinking. Not all of us have the benefit of a close relationship with a Jewish believer. None of the jewish guys I ever knew or worked with were anything that would please the Lord. Terry ShieldsFamily wrote: Jd, your lack of understanding of the Jews is appalling, as demonstrated by every post you write about them. Why not try learning about them instead of speculating out of thin air? I’m talking HUGE lack of understanding—HUGE! iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:30 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Probably no interest on this one, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Isreal claims ancestry through Abraham to God. But there was no Israel from the beginning of earth's history to around 1600 BC or so. The Egyptians had their own culture, religion and mythology. The Jews really had no national identity at all. If if if the Egyptians had incorporated these people into their society in the early years, there would have been no Israel of God --- or, at the very least, Egyptian mythology and culture would have survived in Israel. But, the very fact of continued bondage IMO created an "us versus them" psychology that prevented Israel from being lost in the sea of Egyptian nuance. Their escape from Egypt was that of a people needing Divine help at the most basic levels of national existence. . They had no law or national structure. Their God of the past 400 years (of bondage) was a God of tradition and little more. We are talking about 2 to 3 million people (so some assert) leaving Egypt with absolutely no where to go, no way to survive militarily , a culture of bondage and defeat as the National Story, And when they got to the Red Sea, reality hit them between the eyes. This defeatist attitude becomes a part of their tradition and , perhaps, is an aspect of their repeated rebellion. It is almost as if they are the Divine Stepchild and they really don't care for this identiy. Does this have anything to do with fact that do not approach God as "Father God" ?? And what is Moses doing with the writing of Genesis if not collecting the oral traditions in an effort at presenting Iseal (this brandnew nation) with a history that it can claim as its own??? Perhaps he begins with the Beginning because this was the perfect place to start. .. contrasting the Egyptian mythologies of the beginnings of man with an account of a sovereign God and His creation. These Jews, freah out of Egypt, most definitely knew of the Egyptian stories. The contrast would have been startling. Whatever. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] DEAN: DO YOU NOT KNOW HE SEES US ALIKE, IN HIM?
Not Equally, First & Foremost how God sees us. If you get that right it will all fall in place won't it?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The is my concern EQUALLY! Are BOTH not a concern of yours? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 13, 2005 12:42 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN - says Dean MooreWouldn't it be nice if you were as concerned about how God sees you as much as you are concerned how each of us sees others?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 13, 2005 09:32 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN - says Dean Moore I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?- Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 13, 2005 09:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN - says Dean Moore Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [TruthTalk]
Your personal encounters with one Jew or another is irrelevant. History should not be distorted by anit-semites. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:44 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] It might benefit us all, Iz, if you would point out the error in John's thinking. Not all of us have the benefit of a close relationship with a Jewish believer. None of the jewish guys I ever knew or worked with were anything that would please the Lord. Terry ShieldsFamily wrote: Jd, your lack of understanding of the Jews is appalling, as demonstrated by every post you write about them. Why not try learning about them instead of speculating out of thin air? I’m talking HUGE lack of understanding—HUGE! iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:30 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Probably no interest on this one, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Isreal claims ancestry through Abraham to God. But there was no Israel from the beginning of earth's history to around 1600 BC or so. The Egyptians had their own culture, religion and mythology. The Jews really had no national identity at all. If if if the Egyptians had incorporated these people into their society in the early years, there would have been no Israel of God --- or, at the very least, Egyptian mythology and culture would have survived in Israel. But, the very fact of continued bondage IMO created an "us versus them" psychology that prevented Israel from being lost in the sea of Egyptian nuance. Their escape from Egypt was that of a people needing Divine help at the most basic levels of national existence. . They had no law or national structure. Their God of the past 400 years (of bondage) was a God of tradition and little more. We are talking about 2 to 3 million people (so some assert) leaving Egypt with absolutely no where to go, no way to survive militarily , a culture of bondage and defeat as the National Story, And when they got to the Red Sea, reality hit them between the eyes. This defeatist attitude becomes a part of their tradition and , perhaps, is an aspect of their repeated rebellion. It is almost as if they are the Divine Stepchild and they really don't care for this identiy. Does this have anything to do with fact that do not approach God as "Father God" ?? And what is Moses doing with the writing of Genesis if not collecting the oral traditions in an effort at presenting Iseal (this brandnew nation) with a history that it can claim as its own??? Perhaps he begins with the Beginning because this was the perfect place to start. .. contrasting the Egyptian mythologies of the beginnings of man with an account of a sovereign God and His creation. These Jews, freah out of Egypt, most definitely knew of the Egyptian stories. The contrast would have been startling. Whatever. jd
[TruthTalk] DEAN: DO YOU NOT KNOW HE SEES US ALIKE, IN HIM?
The is my concern EQUALLY! Are BOTH not a concern of yours? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 13, 2005 12:42 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN - says Dean Moore Wouldn't it be nice if you were as concerned about how God sees you as much as you are concerned how each of us sees others?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 13, 2005 09:32 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN - says Dean Moore I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 13, 2005 09:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN - says Dean Moore Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
[TruthTalk] [Fwd: The Perfect Arm]
The Perfect Arm The coach had put together the perfect team for the Detroit Lions. The only thing missing was a good quarterback. He had scouted all the colleges and even the Canadian and European Leagues, but he couldn't find a ringer who could ensure a Super Bowl victory. Then one night, while watching CNN, he saw a war-zone scene in Afghanistan. In one corner of the background, he spotted a young Afghan Muslim soldier with a truly incredible arm. He threw a hand-grenade straight into a window from 80 yards away. Then he threw another from 50 yards down a chimney, and then hit a passing car going 80 miles per hour. "I've got to get this guy!" coach said to himself. "He has the perfect arm!" So, he brings the young Afghan to the States and teaches him the great game of football. And sure enough the Lions go on to win the Super Bowl. The young Afghan is hailed as a hero of football, and when the coach asks him what he wants to do, all he says is just to call his mother. "Mom," he says into the phone, "I just won the Super Bowl!" "I don't want to talk to you," the old Muslim woman says. "You deserted us. You are not my son!" "Mother, I don't think you understand," pleads the son, "I've just won the greatest sporting event in the world!" "No! Let me tell you," his mother retorts. "At this very moment there are gunshots all around us. The neighborhood is a pile of rubble. Your two brothers were beaten within an inch of their lives last week, and I have to keep your sister in the house so she doesn't get raped!" The old lady pauses then tearfully says, "I will never forgive you for making us move to Detroit!" -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes ! and , by the way, DH, your assessment of the world's point of view on this is neither accurate or relevant. and this statement borders on insulting: One of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old rugged cross. :>) Blainerb I have to say something here -- both of you have made it clear (and I am not angry , by the way) that your stay here on TT has given you nothing in terms of reason for crossing over. Well, consider your failure in this regard, as well. With as much variety as exists here amongst us Christians, you would think someone would consider the Mormon religion. But this latest discussion, while revealing, would surely close the door to any serious student of the Bible. To put down "death" and the "cross" is to simply miss the point of the life of Christ here on this earth .. and miss the mark by a wide margin !!! jd -- Original message -- From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I think that we have isolated the problem, Dave. You seem to be thinking like the world instead of as a follower who has taken up the cross and died to self.TerryDave Hansen wrote: Those wearing one are sending a message that they follow Christ. DAVEH: Unfortunately, they naively fail to understand the message they are sending, IMHO. As I've explained before, the world recognizes the cross as a symbol of death. And for anybody familiar with the historical meaning of what the cross did to our Savior, why they would want to project a message of torture, suffering and death.is simply incredible to me. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **
Dean has not made any Sexually suggestive comments as you have claimed in fact it is the LDS folk who have made comments and done some things thru private emails "under the table" Again LDS response is as IRRELEVANT as yeah but the Flag has stars Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Please try to refrain from making sexual references, especially false accuastions.DAVEH: Let's see if I understand this, Perry. Recently I asked some questions that were no more sexually oriented than what you commonly make, Dean then claimed foul..and you banned further discussion based on the perception you and Dean had about what those comments might have implied. Now you have made a comment that can be perceived to be sexually charged..If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! ..and you don't want to recognize the double standard? It is interesting that when you or other TTers make any kind of denigrating remarks toward LDS theology with sexual implications, nothing is considered off limits. When I point out this obvious double standard, I am cautioned by the moderator to refrain from bringing the discussion to the TT table under the guise of making false accusations. It must be convenient to have a moderator who can see non-LDS posters through one non-judgmental eye, and perceive a completely different perspective of LDS posters through the other, more critical eye. I suppose if one has an ax to grind against LDS theology, and is not embarrassed to publicly admit suchthen it should not surprise anybody to find that person practicing a double standard. The curious part about this is that it happens on a forum called TruthTalk, where truth is presupposed to be the dominating factor, yet it seems to be suppressed when it comes to recognizing the Christian hypocrisy found here.Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, Please try to refrain from making sexual references, especially false accuastions. This is not the forum for that? I am sure there are many discussion forums about sex if that type of discussion interests you. Perry From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Perry's Sexually Suggestive Comments Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:07:35 -0800 *If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! * DAVEH: I wonder if Dean is going to rebuke you for making such sexually suggestive comments, Perry! If not, will we then have another example of hypocritical Christianity in TT? Charles Perry Locke wrote: Just be sure you remember your secret password and secret handshake so Joseph Smith will allow you entrance into heaven. *If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! * From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off... Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:19:35 EST I guess I never got to know you, Christine--but hope to meet you in the great beyond--you may be required to testify at the Bar of God as to what you have seen and heard on TT-- Blainerb In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am signing off. I have gotten sucked into the world of TT, and I think it would be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the discussions. I have learned a great deal. May the Lord bless you and keep you all. It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not all in the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) -Christine Miller -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
RE: [TruthTalk] Cross
Still waiting on Blaines explanation of EXACTLY what he finds weird.ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: THE OLD RUGGED CROSS On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,The emblem of suffering and shame;And I love that old cross where the dearest and bestFor a world of lost sinners was slain. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,Has a wondrous attraction for me;For the dear Lamb of God left His glory aboveTo bear it to dark Calvary. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,A wondrous beauty I see,For 'twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,To pardon and sanctify me. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;Its shame and reproach gladly bear;Then He'll call me some day to my home far away,Where His glory forever I'll share. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross,Till my trophies at last I lay down;I will cling to the old rugged cross,And exchange it some day for a crown. Yes, a lost person would think that those lyrics are weird, indeed. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:11 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:42:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:One of the best songs I ever heard was titled, He Loved Me with a Cross. izOne of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old rugged cross. :>) Blainerb Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Inverted stars on LDS Temples
The Temple in nauvoo was given by REVELATION: According to the story recounted in History of the Church, Vol. 6, pp. 196-197, Joseph Smith told the architect of the Nauvoo temple, "I wish you to carry out my [italics in the original text] designs. I have seen in vision the splendid appearance of the building illuminated, and will have it built according to the pattern shown me." The one below is just for comparison to the actual pentagrams that are on AND AROUND the temple. http://www.hismin.com/page3.html http://www.hismin.com/occultsymbols.html http://www.greaterthings.com/OpenForum/5_pointed_star_Nauvoo_Temple/ The up-side-down five-pointed star is to Satanists what the Cross is to Christians. Why is this symbol being used in the LDS temple? With all things having both a positive and negative manifestation, is this an instance of opposite contrast? The answer is found in the heart of each person as well as each organization generally that uses the symbol. http://www.ldshistory.net/1904/tempgeog.htmThe Temple in Salt Lake City, contains many of these ancient symbols, both inside and out, which portray many fundamental principles when properly understood. On the west wall we find the designs of the Big Dipper, which unfailingly points out the North Star, and serves as a guide to the traveler across the unchartered wilderness. So likewise does this symbol on our Temple tell the initiate, that herein he will find an unfailing guide, as he or she travels the journey of life, which will safely guide us back to our Father's presence. Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is this sign actually located somewhere on or in the Mormon temple? I would like an honest answer from someone who has been there and seen it.TerryKevin Deegan wrote: Does the temple display Satanic stars? On has only to use the eyes God gave him, or he can shut his eyes and avoid the obvious 666 Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
Right so Blaines argument states that because their symbols can be found elsewhere it is OK to put them on the temple. BTW there are many Masonic influences in MormonismTerry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There have been freemasons since the tower of Babel, where it all started.Kevin Deegan wrote: There were freemasons at the founding of our goverment. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_tapestra11.htmWhite house at bottom point [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:"Universally accepted symbol for Satan?" What about the Congressional Medal of Honor??? Please note the pentagrams, all pointing downward THE MEDAL OF HONOR The highest award for valor in action against an enemy force which can be bestowed upon an individual serving in the Armed Services of the United States... --> LEARN MORE-- NEWS In a message dated 12/12/2005 8:17:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Don't let your mind accept what your eyes see. It may look like the satanic star, it may have the same proportions as the satanic Star. it may align with the satanic star in every way if we overlay them, But it can not be a Satanic star since you say so. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! look this way & repeat after me "I know the church is true" Avert your eyes look away that is not the universally accepted symbol for Satan. repeat after me.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN - says Dean Moore
Wouldn't it be nice if you were as concerned about how God sees you as much as you are concerned how each of us sees others?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 13, 2005 09:32 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN - says Dean Moore I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?- Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 13, 2005 09:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUE CHRISTIANS SAY NO TO SATAN BEFORE IT MANIFESTS INTO SIN - says Dean Moore Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
