[ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu: Too Good to be True?

[Jim Kissel]

A good, non-technical review/article of Ubuntu


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[TheVeech]

On Sun, 2007-05-06 at 23:21 +0100, Gregory Kirby wrote:
> >
> >However, if you can afford it, I would get an ethernet DSL modem as they
> >really do work out of the box, with no drivers necessary.
> >
> HI Matt,
> 
> Can I plug an ethernet modem into my existing ADSL BT/Demon connection?

You could get a router with an integrated modem.  I can only vouch for
what I've used for ADSL:

Netgear DG834 (wired router)
Netgear DG834GT (wireless router)

There are updated models available, too.  Make sure it's for ADSL and
that it's got an integrated modem.

HTH


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Gregory Kirby]

>
>However, if you can afford it, I would get an ethernet DSL modem as they
>really do work out of the box, with no drivers necessary.
>
HI Matt,

Can I plug an ethernet modem into my existing ADSL BT/Demon connection?

Regards

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets [long reply]

[Nik Butler]

> I added it here:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LinuxAndOSSResearchAndAdvocacy where
> I've been trying to document any evidence of the value of OSS to
> businesses.
>
>   
Chris thank you for your comments Ive been moving SMEs from Window
Servers to OSS servers for near on 8 years now if your interested in
some real world , real results and real savings discussions then give me
a call.


Nik


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets [long reply]

[Chris Rowson]

> You should lookinto things like SODA
>

Hi Nik,

I've been looking for some info on SODA, and although it's referenced
in quite a few places, I can't find the 'home' of the project.

I did however find this document which outlines an open source
deployment to an enterprise organisation:

http://www.netproject.com/docs/Beaumont.pdf

I added it here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LinuxAndOSSResearchAndAdvocacy where
I've been trying to document any evidence of the value of OSS to
businesses.

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Free Me to download!

[Chris Rowson]

> This little extension that I found out about this morning is pretty
> useful: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=26397
>
> It's nice and simple. Clicking on a button birngs up a graphical
> interface with checkboxes for three different formats - Open Ofice,
> Microsoft Office and PDF. Simply exmplain which is which, and they get
> all three saved by default.

Oooh thanks - that looks pretty cool :-)

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Gregory Kirby]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matthew J Smith 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Kris Marsh wrote:
>>> Also couldn't play my mp3 files, of
>>> which I have many via Creative.
>>
>> mp3 won't work out of box with Ubuntu, as there are some legal
>> implications with shipping it on the CD (the mp3 library needs to be
>> paid for as it's using patented technology). However, Ubuntu makes it
>> very easy to install codecs such as mp3, dvd stuff etc. You should be
>> able to click on the mp3, and Ubuntu will prompt you to download what
>> it needs from the Internet. Providing you can get connected :-)

First hurdle :-)
>

>
>http://www.dslmodemsdirect.com/about_zoom_5510a_usb_dsl_modem.htm

Haha, I have a Zoom 5510... Will check this out.
>
>However, if you can afford it, I would get an ethernet DSL modem as they
>really do work out of the box, with no drivers necessary.

Will look into this too.

>
>Just to introduce myself, I'm Matthew Smith, and I live in New Malden
>(SW London), and I'm probably best known for running the Qt blog
>(www.blogistan.co.uk/qt), and I also do a bit of Qt 4 programming,
>particularly writing the QTM blog management program
>(qtm.blogistan.co.uk).  I've used most versions of Ubuntu and have just
>installed Feisty, and I must say it's the first version of Kubuntu I'll
>actually keep using.

Hi Matthew. I aborted Kubunto as I thought it was demoing like Ubunto 
but appeared to be installing.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Gregory Kirby]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Alec Wright 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>On Sun, 2007-05-06 at 19:08 +0100, Matthew J Smith wrote:
>> However, if you can afford it, I would get an ethernet DSL modem as they
>> really do work out of the box, with no drivers necessary.
>If your network card is supported.
>--

Gulp, I have a Dell Dimension in a live work environment. According to 
Belarc I have a Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated Controller. Is that the 
kiddie?

I will look into an ethernet modem.
-- 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Alec Wright]

On Sun, 2007-05-06 at 19:08 +0100, Matthew J Smith wrote:
> However, if you can afford it, I would get an ethernet DSL modem as they 
> really do work out of the box, with no drivers necessary.
If your network card is supported.
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New Mobile Number: 07932 217 288


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Matthew J Smith]

Kris Marsh wrote:
>> Also couldn't play my mp3 files, of
>> which I have many via Creative.
> 
> mp3 won't work out of box with Ubuntu, as there are some legal
> implications with shipping it on the CD (the mp3 library needs to be
> paid for as it's using patented technology). However, Ubuntu makes it
> very easy to install codecs such as mp3, dvd stuff etc. You should be
> able to click on the mp3, and Ubuntu will prompt you to download what
> it needs from the Internet. Providing you can get connected :-)

Hi there,

Just to clarify, the user does not have to pay for use of the MP3 patent 
if it is for his or her personal use; a commercial distributor has to, 
which means, for example, that it cannot be included on a cover disc or 
in a commercially-sold book.  So, you have to download them.

> 
>> I presume there are tools to convert formats, so will demo again.
>>
>> I came out of Ubuntu as I couldn't get on line. I will note my ADSL
>> settings via Zoom USB modem, my Turnpike settings for POP3 email, and go
>> in again.
> 
> I have no idea about this. I ditched my USB modem a while ago. Maybe
> someone else on this list will be able to help out, and you could try
> posting on http://ubuntuforums.org/ too.
> 

I had the same problem years ago when I was using a Speedtouch DSL 
modem, and there are drivers you can download for that.  What model of 
Zoom modem do you have?  This website claims that at least one model 
does work with Linux:

http://www.dslmodemsdirect.com/about_zoom_5510a_usb_dsl_modem.htm

However, if you can afford it, I would get an ethernet DSL modem as they 
really do work out of the box, with no drivers necessary.

Just to introduce myself, I'm Matthew Smith, and I live in New Malden 
(SW London), and I'm probably best known for running the Qt blog 
(www.blogistan.co.uk/qt), and I also do a bit of Qt 4 programming, 
particularly writing the QTM blog management program 
(qtm.blogistan.co.uk).  I've used most versions of Ubuntu and have just 
installed Feisty, and I must say it's the first version of Kubuntu I'll 
actually keep using.

Regards,

Matt Smith
-- 

http://www.blogistan.co.uk/qt/

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Gregory Kirby]

>
>> Is there a big difference between Kubuntu and Ubuntu?
>
>Kubuntu is based on KDE, and it's applications. Ubuntu is based on
>Gnome and it's applications. Generally, you'll find that you can do
>everything you need in either/or. I won't comment on which is better,
>as this is more down to a personal thing. I'd suggest giving both a
>go, and seeing which works better for you.
>
>
Close shave there. Kubuntu started asking about partitioning drives. 
Aborted ASAP!


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Free Me to download!

[Benjamin Webb]

On 06/05/07, Chris Rowson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> With users I've converted over, I've always ended up setting OO to
> write to MS file format by default. It's a nuisance, but it helps
> avoid people whinging when they can't open their latest masterpiece in
> MS Word...

This little extension that I found out about this morning is pretty
useful: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=26397

It's nice and simple. Clicking on a button birngs up a graphical
interface with checkboxes for three different formats - Open Ofice,
Microsoft Office and PDF. Simply exmplain which is which, and they get
all three saved by default.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Kris Marsh]

On 5/6/07, Gregory Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> HI Kris,
>
> I have had a play with Ubuntu. I also have a Kubuntu disk ready to play
> around with too.
>
> I have realised that I may have trouble opening existing MS Office docs,
> mainly Word, some Excel and Access.

Open Office is the installed office suite in Ubuntu. It does a pretty
good job at opening most MS Office documents. However, as you
mentioned, there may be the odd document that doesn't play nice if
you're editing them in both Open Office and MS Office. You could
consider Open Office for Windows , if this
is something you'll need to do day-to-day.


> Also couldn't play my mp3 files, of
> which I have many via Creative.

mp3 won't work out of box with Ubuntu, as there are some legal
implications with shipping it on the CD (the mp3 library needs to be
paid for as it's using patented technology). However, Ubuntu makes it
very easy to install codecs such as mp3, dvd stuff etc. You should be
able to click on the mp3, and Ubuntu will prompt you to download what
it needs from the Internet. Providing you can get connected :-)

> I presume there are tools to convert formats, so will demo again.
>
> I came out of Ubuntu as I couldn't get on line. I will note my ADSL
> settings via Zoom USB modem, my Turnpike settings for POP3 email, and go
> in again.

I have no idea about this. I ditched my USB modem a while ago. Maybe
someone else on this list will be able to help out, and you could try
posting on http://ubuntuforums.org/ too.

> Is there a big difference between Kubuntu and Ubuntu?

Kubuntu is based on KDE, and it's applications. Ubuntu is based on
Gnome and it's applications. Generally, you'll find that you can do
everything you need in either/or. I won't comment on which is better,
as this is more down to a personal thing. I'd suggest giving both a
go, and seeing which works better for you.



Hope that helps a bit, and good luck with your modem stuffs :-)

Kris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Gregory Kirby]

HI Kris,

I have had a play with Ubuntu. I also have a Kubuntu disk ready to play 
around with too.

I have realised that I may have trouble opening existing MS Office docs, 
mainly Word, some Excel and Access. Also couldn't play my mp3 files, of 
which I have many via Creative.

I presume there are tools to convert formats, so will demo again.

I came out of Ubuntu as I couldn't get on line. I will note my ADSL 
settings via Zoom USB modem, my Turnpike settings for POP3 email, and go 
in again.

Is there a big difference between Kubuntu and Ubuntu?

Initial impressions are that there is a bit more thought and input 
required of the user which I find healthy and stimulating. Windows takes 
all this away as if I am unable to fathom things out for myself. I also 
think that a better understanding of Ubuntu et al would lead to a better 
understanding of computers.

Looking forward to unleashing Beryl :-)

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Administration address 38 Straightsmouth, Greenwich, SE10 9LD

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets [long reply]

[Nik Butler]

Chris Rowson wrote:
> A major problem with deploying an Ubuntu desktop infrastructure is its
> lack of integration into a Windows Active Directory (AD) environment.
>
>   
Very true of large scale enterprise delivery but not a problem for many
of my clients whom are in the SME market and not tied to this though.
> Unfortunately AD sits at the heart of user authentication, security,
> app deployment and file permissions in most large organisations. Until
> Ubuntu supports this better, I can't see many large enterprises
> migrating. To do so would require a move from AD which would be costly
> even when stacked against savings made from desktop licensing.
>   
Samba handles that very well though and ive not expereinced issues. It
is of course a concern.
> I'm not fond of most MS software, but I will give them brownie points
> for AD. I've not seen much (or if any) open-source software that
> implements the same stuff.
>   
You should lookinto things like SODA


Nik


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Kris Marsh]

On 5/6/07, Gregory Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Sean Miller
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
> >Gregory Kirby wrote:
> >> I will burn both to a disk and I believe the disk will be bootable and
> >> reversible if it plays havoc with my current set up?
> >>
> >Not sure what "reversible" means... if you boot into the LiveCD it won't
> >affect your "current set up" at all, as everything runs from the CD and
> >hard drives etc. are left alone.
>
> That is what I intend to do first.
> >
> >If, however, you install the OS from the CD then I am not aware of any
> >way you could reverse any changes it made, for instance if you decided
> >to let it re-partition your hard drive to dual boot...
> >
>
> I understand... I hope :-)
>
>
> --
> Gregory
>
> --
> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
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> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
>

Hi Gregory,

When you put the bootable CD into your drive and restart your machine,
Ubuntu will load up from the CD (known as a LiveCD). Everything runs
from the CD, so it won't touch your hard drives at all. As you can
appreciate, things will run a little slower while running from the CD.

If you decide that you would like to install Ubuntu from there, so you
can use it without the CD, there is an icon on the desktop "Install".
The install procedure is very simple, and it helps you resize your
Windows partition if you have one.

While the install is going on, you are still able to access the
internet, so if you do have any questions at that point, feel free to
ask again on this mailing list, or you can talk to people in real-time
with IRC 

Good luck :-)

Kris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Gregory Kirby]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Sean Miller 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Gregory Kirby wrote:
>> I will burn both to a disk and I believe the disk will be bootable and
>> reversible if it plays havoc with my current set up?
>>
>Not sure what "reversible" means... if you boot into the LiveCD it won't
>affect your "current set up" at all, as everything runs from the CD and
>hard drives etc. are left alone.

That is what I intend to do first.
>
>If, however, you install the OS from the CD then I am not aware of any
>way you could reverse any changes it made, for instance if you decided
>to let it re-partition your hard drive to dual boot...
>

I understand... I hope :-)


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets [long reply]

[Chris Rowson]

A major problem with deploying an Ubuntu desktop infrastructure is its
lack of integration into a Windows Active Directory (AD) environment.

Unfortunately AD sits at the heart of user authentication, security,
app deployment and file permissions in most large organisations. Until
Ubuntu supports this better, I can't see many large enterprises
migrating. To do so would require a move from AD which would be costly
even when stacked against savings made from desktop licensing.

I'm not fond of most MS software, but I will give them brownie points
for AD. I've not seen much (or if any) open-source software that
implements the same stuff.

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Sean Miller]

Gregory Kirby wrote:
> I will burn both to a disk and I believe the disk will be bootable and 
> reversible if it plays havoc with my current set up?
>   
Not sure what "reversible" means... if you boot into the LiveCD it won't 
affect your "current set up" at all, as everything runs from the CD and 
hard drives etc. are left alone.

If, however, you install the OS from the CD then I am not aware of any 
way you could reverse any changes it made, for instance if you decided 
to let it re-partition your hard drive to dual boot...

Sean

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] BooHoo Yahoo

[Stephen Morrish]

The complete Google group of services are good. Some of the programs
do work nativly under Linux with some exceptions. It's a shame about
Gtalk, but you can't have everything... I use several PC's running
different OS's, Googles browser sync is a real boon. I would be lost
without the spell checker in Google tool bar. I use Gmail as my
default email these days because of the multiple computers. I used to
use Yahoo for all of these tasks but in the last year or so Google has
become the centre of my on-line life.

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AKA Pendragon
ICQ 112 044 096


On 5/6/07, Josh Blacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Google's Picasa is quite good in my experience (and have an ubuntu
> client running under an integrated, tweaked wine), but doesn't offer
> nearly as many of the features of Flickr, I'm afraid, but its
> desktop-web integration is useful.
>
> Josh
>
> On 5/6/07, TheVeech <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Yahoo's reported merger/takeover talks with MS means it's open (!) to
> > selling its independence to the highest bidder.  That it's MS they're
> > talking with just emphasises my original stupidity and
> > short-sightedness.  I should have been more savvy to the long-term
> > threat of something like this, especially before parting with cash.
> >
> > But now I've got to start looking at the alternatives on offer to the
> > various services of theirs that I've used.  I'm mainly looking for an
> > alternative to Flickr!, though a list of alternatives to all their
> > offerings would be helpful for trying something new and for when I come
> > across people who are also facing the threat of having the rug pulled
> > from beneath them.  This would also be handy to distribute if or when
> > the deal goes through.
> >
> > Anyone use/recommend free alternatives?  I'm about to start the process
> > of researching this, but anyone's knowledge and experiences would be a
> > big help.
> >
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> > https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
> >
>
> --
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>

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets [long reply]

[norman]

< big snip >

> I and many others agree with you. Have you heard of Edubuntu?
>  - it's an OS, based on Ubuntu, that is
> specifically catered to schools and classrooms.

Yes I have heard of Edubuntu and understand its purpose.
> 
> The Ubuntu UK team have some information on our wiki site
> , explaining we can all help
> to push Open Source Software to our schools and governments.
> 
> If you would like to help, you can email or write a letter to your
> local MP, as well as speak to your local council and schools. If you
> would like me to send you a copy of my note to my local MP, then I'd
> be happy to do so.

A copy of your note would be helpful. Now that I have the bit between my
teeth I will get the email going to all and sundry who may be able to
influence the decision making process.
> 
> You can also check out http://www.openschoolsalliance.org/ for more 
> information.
> 
> Arguably, an OS that is designed to cater particularly for schools, is
> much stronger than "other leading brands" :-)

Agreed

Norman


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction

[Gregory Kirby]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
Benjamin Webb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>On 05/05/07, Gregory Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Cheers Gord, downloaded it on a direct link and I have it on a disc but
>> the software to check sum is telling me not correct :-(
>
>It could be either the download, in which case you can fix it using
>bittorent (do you know how to use this) - download ontop of the file
>you've already got and it will just change the bits that are wrong.
>Or, if it is just the disc, you could try burning again at a slower
>speed.
>
Hi All,

Have now downloaded Ubuntu and Kubuntu.

I will burn both to a disk and I believe the disk will be bootable and 
reversible if it plays havoc with my current set up?

Regards
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets [long reply]

[Kris Marsh]

On 5/6/07, norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would like to raise another point relevant to all UK citizens. We all,
> in one way or another, pay taxes a fair proportion of which gets spent
> on education. Thus, if schools could be persuaded to change to Ubuntu,
> by how much would our taxes be reduced or cash released for other
> beneficial things such as health? Surely, Ubuntu can do most, if not
> all, of the things needed in schools. So, why are we not targeting our
> local councillors with our propaganda. We have just had theirs in the
> local elections so why not retaliate?
>
> You may accuse me of being Political but then, isn't this freedom thing
> that Linux users preach about, a Political philosophy?
>
> Norman

Hi Norman,

I and many others agree with you. Have you heard of Edubuntu?
 - it's an OS, based on Ubuntu, that is
specifically catered to schools and classrooms.

The Ubuntu UK team have some information on our wiki site
, explaining we can all help
to push Open Source Software to our schools and governments.

If you would like to help, you can email or write a letter to your
local MP, as well as speak to your local council and schools. If you
would like me to send you a copy of my note to my local MP, then I'd
be happy to do so.

You can also check out http://www.openschoolsalliance.org/ for more information.

Arguably, an OS that is designed to cater particularly for schools, is
much stronger than "other leading brands" :-)


Thanks for bringing up an interesting point!

Kris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets [long reply]

[norman]

< snip >
> > You may accuse me of being Political but then, isn't this freedom thing
> > that Linux users preach about, a Political philosophy?
> 
> Doesn't the French National Assembly run on Linux (possibly Ubuntu)?

I think I read recently that there is a scheme in France to give new
university students laptops with Linux installed.

 < snip >

> I do agree wholeheartedly - just thinking through a few of the issues 
> involved!

I am sure we can come up with some more words of pearly wisdom.

Norman


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] BooHoo Yahoo

[Josh Blacker]

Google's Picasa is quite good in my experience (and have an ubuntu
client running under an integrated, tweaked wine), but doesn't offer
nearly as many of the features of Flickr, I'm afraid, but its
desktop-web integration is useful.

Josh

On 5/6/07, TheVeech <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yahoo's reported merger/takeover talks with MS means it's open (!) to
> selling its independence to the highest bidder.  That it's MS they're
> talking with just emphasises my original stupidity and
> short-sightedness.  I should have been more savvy to the long-term
> threat of something like this, especially before parting with cash.
>
> But now I've got to start looking at the alternatives on offer to the
> various services of theirs that I've used.  I'm mainly looking for an
> alternative to Flickr!, though a list of alternatives to all their
> offerings would be helpful for trying something new and for when I come
> across people who are also facing the threat of having the rug pulled
> from beneath them.  This would also be handy to distribute if or when
> the deal goes through.
>
> Anyone use/recommend free alternatives?  I'm about to start the process
> of researching this, but anyone's knowledge and experiences would be a
> big help.
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets [long reply]

[Josh Blacker]

On 5/6/07, norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would like to raise another point relevant to all UK citizens. We all,
> in one way or another, pay taxes a fair proportion of which gets spent
> on education. Thus, if schools could be persuaded to change to Ubuntu,
> by how much would our taxes be reduced or cash released for other
> beneficial things such as health? Surely, Ubuntu can do most, if not
> all, of the things needed in schools. So, why are we not targeting our
> local councillors with our propaganda. We have just had theirs in the
> local elections so why not retaliate?
>
> You may accuse me of being Political but then, isn't this freedom thing
> that Linux users preach about, a Political philosophy?

Doesn't the French National Assembly run on Linux (possibly Ubuntu)?

I think the main argument would be the much-reduced cost of licensing,
but then when you're deploying hundreds of PCs I don't think the cost
per machine of Windows is all that high. Plus, the major factor is to
have IT engineers on site with the relevant experience, and retraining
takes a lot of time and money. I know Canonical offer support
services, but how this compares to companies offering Windows support
in terms of cost, I have no idea, and this would be another important
factor.

I do agree wholeheartedly - just thinking through a few of the issues involved!

Josh

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets [long reply]

[norman]

I would like to raise another point relevant to all UK citizens. We all,
in one way or another, pay taxes a fair proportion of which gets spent
on education. Thus, if schools could be persuaded to change to Ubuntu,
by how much would our taxes be reduced or cash released for other
beneficial things such as health? Surely, Ubuntu can do most, if not
all, of the things needed in schools. So, why are we not targeting our
local councillors with our propaganda. We have just had theirs in the
local elections so why not retaliate?

You may accuse me of being Political but then, isn't this freedom thing
that Linux users preach about, a Political philosophy?

Norman  


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[ubuntu-uk] BooHoo Yahoo

[TheVeech]

Yahoo's reported merger/takeover talks with MS means it's open (!) to
selling its independence to the highest bidder.  That it's MS they're
talking with just emphasises my original stupidity and
short-sightedness.  I should have been more savvy to the long-term
threat of something like this, especially before parting with cash.

But now I've got to start looking at the alternatives on offer to the
various services of theirs that I've used.  I'm mainly looking for an
alternative to Flickr!, though a list of alternatives to all their
offerings would be helpful for trying something new and for when I come
across people who are also facing the threat of having the rug pulled
from beneath them.  This would also be handy to distribute if or when
the deal goes through.

Anyone use/recommend free alternatives?  I'm about to start the process
of researching this, but anyone's knowledge and experiences would be a
big help.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Free Me to download!

[Chris Rowson]

>... When we're
> asked for essays it's in 'formats compatible with the College computer
> network, such as MS Word documents' (paraphrase), rather than
> suggesting .odt and so on. Grr.
>

Yeah, that's pretty irritating.

With users I've converted over, I've always ended up setting OO to
write to MS file format by default. It's a nuisance, but it helps
avoid people whinging when they can't open their latest masterpiece in
MS Word...

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

[norman]

> > OK folks, get the knives out and shoot me down in flames. (I know, I
> > have mixed my metaphors).
> >   
> One can dwell on the negative ("my obscure card won't work in Linux so 
> it's [EMAIL PROTECTED]") or one can look at the positive, which is that 95% 
> of what 
> most people need in a computer can be done without paying loads of money 
> for proprietary software and operating systems...

I agree about not being negative but must money be brought into the
discussion? If I want to use Ubuntu and have to pay for the 5% I need
then so be it. But is it as simple as that?

< snip >

> The key is freedom to choose... we're not railroaded into any particular 
> distro or any particular way of working, in the way that Microsoft and 
> its ilk would like us to be... if there's some feature lacking in Linux 
> that Microsoft's offerings have, there are sure to be hundreds if not 
> thousands of people out there *as we speak* working on making it happen...

Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing to have and, if Ubuntu gives us
that, then more strength to the developers' elbows.
> 
> ...proprietary drivers for obscure devices are always going to be 
> difficult... but you've got to look at the "bigger picture"... the 
> manufacturers will sit up and listen, it is only a matter of time... and 
> until then, to be honest, I wouldn't give up my OS because I couldn't 
> get a USB Freeview card to work... I'd probably go down Argos and pay 
> £20 for a Freeview box and plug it in next to my computer and continue 
> to enjoy having a laptop that runs well, does everything I want and 
> isn't constantly informing Microsoft of what I'm installing...

If all I wanted was to watch freeview television then I agree with you
but I want more. I want to be able to record programmes to my HDD and
burn them to DVD etc.

Norman


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

[Chris Rowson]

It's definitely a case of getting people to see Ubuntu.

A friend of mine had a computer on which the mainboard had failed. I
had a spare mainboard knocking about - so I replaced his with it -
this of course requiring a re-install of Windows. My friend didn't
have a licensed copy of Windows so I installed Ubuntu Feisty on his PC
instead.

After installing Eve Online (using WINE) and Beryl on it, I showed him
how to install applications. He was amazed that he could simply search
for the type of app he wanted in add/remove programs, click apply, and
Ubuntu would download and install the app for him. He commented "wow -
Ubuntu is much easier to use than Windows..."

My friend's girlfriend was also knocking about in the background and
came over to see what we were doing. After about 5 minutes she asked
how much this Ubuntu had cost. It took some time to convince her it
was free, after which she asked if I could remove Win XP from her
computer and replace it with Ubuntu. Her son was next - He loved the
Beryl effects, and asked if he could have it on his computer

Sometimes a leaflet won't cut it (how many do you dump in the bin
first thing in the morning). People have to actually see it in action
to get interested, and when they do see it, they're usually easily
converted.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets [long reply]

[I C McNab]

norman wrote:
> ...My grandson, a windows user,
> bought a Freecom Digital TV DVB-T USB Stick Freeview receiver, plugged
> it in and off he went, no problem [SNIP] 

Norman >>> I think you're pointing to something very important here.  I 
started to make the mental shift towards Open Source/Linux when a few 
months ago, as an MS DOS/Windows power-user for years, I spent £200 on a 
SlimDevices Squeezebox and discovered that it had Open Source music 
server software, and didn't work as I wanted 'out of the box'.

At first, being used to the 'plug & play' simplicity of Windows, I got 
really annoyed at having to mess about in the innards of the software to 
  get the thing to work.  My mind ran on such thoughts as 'You sure as 
hell wouldn't buy one of these things for your Granny!' and 'How dare 
they charge £200 for something that doesn't work unless you devote your 
every waking hour to it for a fortnight?!?'  (I did get it working fine 
- and it is awesome!)

Then I gradually began to understand that I had entered a different 
country.  Here, configuring, tweaking, searching forum posts, reading 
'How-to' docs, and asking for help were the (acceptable) price to to pay 
for immense flexibility, and getting - or getting closer to - a device 
that I could endlessly adjust to my own 'wish list'.

So when I tried out Linux (because someone gave me an old computer with 
no operating system), I was surprised to find that the 'do-it-yourself 
and help-each-other' world of SlimServer was actually a small corner of 
a whole universe that worked like this.  And this changing 
consciousness, started by SlimServer, allowed me (just!) to get through 
the frustrating awfulness of trying to get my wifi PCMCIA card working 
with Dapper, which I had also installed on my laptop.  I tell you, I did 
come very near giving up on Ubuntu that fortnight.

But I didn't, because I'd imperceptibly shifted into a different 
relationship with the technology - just like moving to live in a foreign 
culture, and starting to appreciate and enjoy the different attitudes it 
embodied.  So it was no real surprise to discover a little later that 
Linux and the Open Source movement were not just about technology but 
were embodiments of a pervading philosophy (cf Richahd Stallman, Founder 
of GNU, 'Free software is a matter of liberty not price').

And it's this difference of culture - actually a difference of reality - 
that leads to the conflicts between the opposing MS and Linux forces 
(like  the conflicts among crowds of opposing supporters at 
international football matches, and for rather similar reasons).  No 
amount of rational argument, sound logic, being clearly right, will 
convince someone on 'the other side'.

What works, rather, is experiencing something of the quality behind 
Ubuntu. For me, that was almost accidental;  but the opportunity might 
be offered more systematically: an invitation to 'come and see' without 
being pressurised or given the hard sell;  noticing that Dell offers 
Ubuntu as an option when you're browsing their site;  seeing a cheerful 
and well-written article in a university paper;  seeing a poster for a 
free lunch-time talk, which, when you go, turns out to be lively and 
entertaining;  doing an article (and offering a free support service?) 
in the local free press.  My feeling, from my own experience, is that 
the key is offering people pleasant experiences associated with Ubuntu; 
  being friendly, respectful, and helpful;  giving people options and 
choices, rather than making them feel they have to sign up for something 
(live CD and easily-reversible dual boot are examples of this).  Because 
the problem is that you have to help them get through the change of 
culture when it gets hard - and it will get hard.  (If you've used Linux 
for years, or never had to make this change yourself, it's easy to 
underestimate this strength of this obstacle).

Sorry to have gone on so long - I guess, being a recent convert and, 
worse yet, a product of university during the late 60's and early 70's 
when we invested such hope in 'Community', I'm a bit fired up about 
Ubuntu and the open source idea!

Best wishes
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

[norman]

> Well, it does take a bit of research before hand. Hauppauge USB freeview
> receivers work out of the box in Linux.

That's great. Does that mean if I simply plug it in to my Ubuntu 6.10
box I will be able to select and record programmes at pre-set times and
then burn them to DVD for future viewing?
> 
> It all depends on the market. Manufacturers are starting to put out
> Linux code now, so things like that will change.

That's good too as long as it says suitable for Linux on the package.

Norman



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

[Robin Menneer]

On 5/5/07, norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


To keep the discussion alive, here is an example of why I should use
windows and not Ubuntu (not that I will). My grandson, a windows user,
bought a Freecom Digital TV DVB-T USB Stick Freeview receiver, plugged
it in and off he went, no problem. Now, what will I have to do if I want
to use one of these devices? He, no doubt, used some software that came
with the device, which I don't expect will work with Ubuntu. I shall be
surprised if there is an application to do the job built into Ubuntu, so
I am prevented from being able to use the device, or am I? How can I
find out or, more to the point, why should I go to the bother of finding
out?

You see, ordinary, domestic, desktop users like me are not interested in
servers or programming or using terminals but just in tasks like a bit
of word processing, emails, using the internet, handling digital photos
and videos a bit of printing, both colour and mono and, perhaps, playing
games. There may be other things, which I have missed, but not many.
Wouldn't it be great if there were an edition of Ubuntu which catered
for these few items as simply as windows appears to do.

OK folks, get the knives out and shoot me down in flames. (I know, I
have mixed my metaphors).

Norman

I agree with you 100% - most of my work is within the span of Open Offfice
and f-spot & web.  And the domestic user is the one who is freeer to chose
his/her system.   Ubuntu is reliable, free and friendly for the domestic
user.  No fears of expensive upgrades/
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu Mobile

[Toby Smithe]

On Fri, 2007-05-04 at 13:21 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote:
> Hmmm, this is interesting. Looks like Canonical has plans for Ubuntu
> on mobile devices
> 
> http://www.ubuntu.com/employment#UMDEV

Looks like they do:

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-May/000289.html

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