[Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 418939] Re: Too many crimean tatar keyboard layouts added for Romania
So: 1. People commenting here basically agree with the idea that the politically-based architecture of Linux keyboard layouts is not good, and that it should be done more flexible. If this is not obvious if referring to modern, contemporary languages, it all becomes clear if we wish to add extinct and / or classical languages, which are not politically-based keylayouts, as the ones mentioned. 2. Something must be also done with (and for) such isolated keylayouts like Crimean Tartar even if, frankly, I still cannot see the argument for placing them under Romanian! (Crimean Tartar is indeed an Altaic language akin to Mongolian and to all other Altaic languages, going as far as—very probably—Korean and Japanese as a very remote expression of an easternmost expansion of the Altaic group). Note: I do not have close contacts with Tartars in Dobrudja, I once had, but—frankly—I doubt any of them, even if close to me in this moment, may be of any help here. But I assume that those who created those keylayous must have had some contacts, otherwise I cannot imagine a scenario that they put the keylayouts there without having any contact with the issue. Or am I wrong here? Or adding keylayouts in Linux is like a political dance? This problem is NOT a political one and I regret noting that, in time, Linux developers lost the initial philosophy: simple, free, flexible. 3. Adding too many variants under a basic, reference variant is not a good idea, because to many people this may be confusing. There should be 1-3 variants at the most, exceptionally more, but adding additional keylayouts should be simple and flexible, ideally Mac OS style or any similar simple method. Also, a simple to use keylayout creator, similar to UKELELE, should be implemented, together with a simple way for installing the keylayouts. THIS would solve many issues, allowing users to create / adapt existing keylayouts for specific needs. Let us move at least one step forward with solutions. I for one have my solutions for Mac OS, am not technically competent here, but am ready to discuss and suggest methods based on what I know. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/418939 Title: Too many crimean tatar keyboard layouts added for Romania ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 418939] Re: Too many crimean tatar keyboard layouts added for Romania
Does anyone read this? Is there a reaction to the ideas exchanged here? Is there an admin of this discussion? Just to know whether it makes sense to continue watching this thread. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/418939 Title: Too many crimean tatar keyboard layouts added for Romania ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 418939] Re: Too many crimean tatar keyboard layouts added for Romania
And, very briefly: the long-standing improvised solution of keyboard layouts in Linux, so rigid and so impossible to modify (as in Mac OS, using either Alex Eulenberg’s site or John Brownies’s UKELELE) is the main reason why linux cannot be efficiently used in foreign language teaching and never in dealing with special situations like old languages like Old church Slavonic, Old Italic / Etruscan, Gothic etc. etc. because is a tantalizing cause to try to create your keylayouts in linux. This is, in fact, the essence of the discussion, not those badly put Tartar kaylayouts under Romania, disregarding who had in fact this eerie, whimsical idea. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/418939 Title: Too many crimean tatar keyboard layouts added for Romania ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 418939] Re: Too many crimean tatar keyboard layouts added for Romania
As I was one of those, who triggered the discussion, even if not directly, I am compelled to make some clarifications. So: ‘t's about Romanian users being exposed to layouts for languages they don't have any interest in seeing (or even, apparently, which they would rather not see)’. No, this is NOT a political issue, it has nothing to do with tolerance, with human rights and with minority issues. It has to do WITH CORRECTNESS of a linguistic issue connected to a keyboard layout, nothing more. As a linguist and a person who speaks several languages, and—even if not familiar with Altaic languages—I feel at home with linguistics at large. To a large extent, this issue is connected to the entirely wrong approach of keylayouts in Linux (am a Mac OS user, and creator of several keylayouts for Romanian—several variants, Old Italic, Old Church Slavonic, Czech. So, I feel competent to speak about this issue (see http://www.unibuc.ro/ro/cd_sorpaliga_ro , the English page seems to be under revision). Linux distros deal with political entities, and then places keylayouts under countries / states, an entirely wrong view, even if, of course, covering a reality. But what happens with those situations when there is no state there? What about Old Church Slavonic, Old Italic / Etruscan, Gothic etc. etc. Shall we randomly put them under a certain pretext? The four or five Crimean Tatar keylayouts under Romanian is a total absurdity. It is true that there is a Tartar minority in Dobrudja, respected as human beings (I know some of them personally, my wife worked with them for 2 years). What has this to do with putting those unhappy keylayouts under Romania? Do something, find something more intelligent than this really bad solution. Be constructive, use your inteliigence in order to achieve a superior way of thinking and do remove those keylayouts from there. They are entirely useless. And note that they are badly put there not because I / we do not want to see them there, but because their location should not be there. As Tartar is an Altaic language, until you find a more generic and more flexible solution, their place may be under Turkey or Mongolia or anything similar. This is not an ideal solution either, I agree, but it has at least a minimum of a logical approach. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/418939 Title: Too many crimean tatar keyboard layouts added for Romania ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
