date:20110828

On 08/29/2011 06:08 AM, Timothy Miller wrote:

On Aug 28, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

Don't EVEN get me started on my students...
Judy

I'll get you started, Judy. Maybe the catharsis will do you good.

Both my kids went to a community college, and both got pretty good educations.
Both have been successful academically after completing community college.

This is a summary of their many reports.

Say my kid signs up for English 5. Because it satisfies a general education requirement,
it draws a lot of students. You're not allowed to take it unless you've passed the
English "placement examination." Only about half the incoming first-years
actually pass the English placement examination.

English 5 starts out with 100 students enrolled. (These are representative numbers, not
an exact case.) Of these 50 will never attempt to read the textbook, take notes, or turn
in any homework. Many of these students are sponging off Mom, partying a lot. If they're
male, they are probably smoking a lot of dope and playing Call of Duty all night. They've
enrolled partly to avoid parental displeasure, to avoid getting a job, to remain eligible
for parental health insurance, and possibly to qualify for student loans. Some have
enrolled with the naive belief that they will "get good jobs some day" if they
merely enroll.

The real problem, here in Bulgaria, at least, is that the spongers are
allowed up to
4 retakes spread over a year; and it is understood that, eventually,
everybody will pass.

"W" day comes about half way through the semester. If you withdraw from the course before W day,
you get a "W" instead of an "F" without any hit to your grade point average, though you
don't get credit for the course.

The week before "W" day, about seventy students show up for the course. The
rest have stopped attending, with our without Ws. The week after W day, about forty
students show up for the course.

Of the remaining forty students, fifteen will fail the course. Why they didn't
take W's when they had the chance is an ongoing mystery. Some of these were
doomed to fail, by virtue of poor educational success in grades K-12.

The twenty-five who pass have made some effort to study.

About eight of the original 100 will get A's. They have made at least a modest
effort to study and do homework. The professor, in most cases, has bravely
maintained some kind of academic standard. She has taught to the students who
have some desire to learn.

Many of the students who pass the course will get Cs and Ds, representing
little if any mastery of the material.

Surely if they have 'little if any mastery of the material' they should
simply fail?

This has been going on for years at my local community college, and likely many
others like it around the country and maybe in the U.K., too. It is the
unintended consequence of teaching first graders (and their parents) that the
whole purpose of the first grade is to prepare every student for college.

I don't know where you teach, Judy. Cal State Fullerton?

I hope it's better there than at my local community college. Unfortunately, you
do get some of the students who got Cs and Ds at community college.

I have an M.A. from SIUC, and was very interested to see your tiered
approach; Universities and Community Colleges. However, in Britain that
system has been destroyed [and, previously, it many more layers than
yours] in that everything from a community college, through polytechnics
are now called Universities; giving people distorted expectations, and
losing the strengths that were quite different from those of traditional
universities of the polytechnics and technical colleges.

Cheers,

Tim

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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain

On 08/29/2011 02:55 AM, Timothy Miller wrote:

On Aug 28, 2011, at 12:31 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

Frankly I don't really care about fairness that much; has life been "fair" to you, has it
been "fair" to me? A silly question which has no real answer (probably because the word,
'fair', at its centre is almost semantically empty). I am a human being, who, as a human being,
cares more about his kids than somebody else's. I am not going to pretend (as we, in Scotland, know
full well how they pretend 'doun sooth') that I
am a wishy-washy liberal who, by stretching his resources to be 'fair' helps no
one at all.

I didn't say that you ought to be fair.

On the other hand, many voters, politicians, teachers, administrators and
parents are very concerned about fairness. You might have trouble persuading
them that they have it all wrong. While you're doing that, they will be trying
to persuade you that you have it all wrong.

Indeed.

Have fun.

Not likely, mate; I have to get on and put my nose to the grindstone for
my children's expensive education . . . :)

Tim
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Re: LC --> Website ?

On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:53 PM, Bernard Devlin wrote:

> That's not necessarily true and many (most?) professional website
> designers do use tools like Dreamweaver (or whatever Adobe is calling
> that these days).  It is IMO only an elite group of web designers who
> produce their pages programmatically.  Between people producing
> designs in Photoshop (or hacking pre-designed templates) and people
> who hand-code in Notepad, lies a whole sea of people who use
> html-specific design tools. 

> I hope that is of some help.
> 
> Bernard
> 

Very helpful indeed. You've offered generous assistance, for which I am very 
grateful. Others on this thread have also been kind and knowledgeable. Thanks 
to all.

Tim
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Re: LC 4.6.3 Gotcha?

On Aug 28, 2011, at 9:12 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 8/28/11 6:50 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:
> 
>> What is a card group?
>> 
>> Do you mean to say it is necessary to "send" a message to a card group?
> 
> It's a group that does not have backgroundBehavior set. It gets messages 
> before the card does, like buttons and other card objects. If a script 
> somewhere after the card needs to trigger a message in a card group, then it 
> has to "send" the message, just as it would send to a card button. That's why 
> it sounded to me like your group was a card group; if it were a background 
> group it would behave the way you were used to.

Okay, I get the analogy to buttons. Buttons can contain handlers, but they are 
not in the normal message path. You have to "send" the message to the button, 
and appropriately name the button in the send command so the message will find 
its way there.

Apparently, groups work that way when backgroundBehavior is set to "false" 
Didn't know that. Know it now. Knowledge is power, they say, and I hope it's 
true.

That's not why my script stopped working.

How does the message path work if you have several groups on the same card, all 
with backgroundBehavior set to true? That is more like my situation. Any 
gotchas there?

Cheers,

Tim
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Re: Sound formats on Android


On 8/28/11 11:17 PM, Admin wrote:



If you want, send me the audio files and i'll see if there is
anything wrong with them.


Gratitude. Effusive thanks.

--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: SFTP externals

2011-08-28 Thread Andre Garzia

ho ho ho ho

I was working on the same thing but I have less messages and my functions
are blocking. I am using a custom libcurl and you guys?


On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Chipp Walters  wrote:

> Hey guys. Chris has been working on some cool sftp externals for LC and
> currently they are working on Mac and PC with iOS and Linux support next.
>
> They do the following:
>
> Open
> Close
> isConnected
> GetDir
> MkDir
> GetRemoteFile (has async progress messages)
> PutLocalFile ( has async progress messages)
> DeleteRemoteFile
>
> Anything else you can think of that you use in an sftp external?
> Also, send me an email offlist if you NEED to beta test. Thanks.
>
> --
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
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-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: Sound formats on Android

2011-08-28 Thread Admin

  

If you want, send me the audio files and i'll see if there is
anything wrong with them. 

Mike 

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 23:02:45 -0500,
J. Landman Gay wrote: 

> On 8/28/11 9:17 PM, Admin wrote:
> 
>> Your
best bet is still 44.1k 16 bit wave file or you can try mp2 44.8k 16 bit
dvd resolution files I will see what works on my android devices
tonight.
> 
> Thanks Mike. I've worked my way through all the encodings
in SOX and 
> none work. Some of the conversions produce a faint click.
Mostly they 
> don't play at all. I tried copying the waveform in
Audacity, pasting it 
> into a new file, and saving that with the same
settings as the 3 that do 
> work but that failed too. I also tried the
two suggestions you made above.
> 
> Each of these 2 audio clips is
about a half second long. I have just 
> spent all day trying to get
them to play. Whatever is wrong seems to be 
> confined to these 2 files
because I was able to get the other 3 to work 
> with some effort. This
should have been a couple minutes work.
> 
> All my conversions run fine
in the OS X Finder and in Audacity.

  
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Re: LC 4.6.3 Gotcha?


On 8/28/11 6:50 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:


What is a card group?

Do you mean to say it is necessary to "send" a message to a card group?


It's a group that does not have backgroundBehavior set. It gets messages 
before the card does, like buttons and other card objects. If a script 
somewhere after the card needs to trigger a message in a card group, 
then it has to "send" the message, just as it would send to a card 
button. That's why it sounded to me like your group was a card group; if 
it were a background group it would behave the way you were used to.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Sound formats on Android


On 8/28/11 9:17 PM, Admin wrote:


Your best bet is still 44.1k 16 bit wave file or you can try
mp2 44.8k 16 bit dvd resolution files

I will see what works on my
android devices tonight.


Thanks Mike. I've worked my way through all the encodings in SOX and 
none work. Some of the conversions produce a faint click. Mostly they 
don't play at all. I tried copying the waveform in Audacity, pasting it 
into a new file, and saving that with the same settings as the 3 that do 
work but that failed too. I also tried the two suggestions you made above.


Each of these 2 audio clips is about a half second long. I have just 
spent all day trying to get them to play. Whatever is wrong seems to be 
confined to these 2 files because I was able to get the other 3 to work 
with some effort. This should have been a couple minutes work.


All my conversions run fine in the OS X Finder and in Audacity.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain

On Aug 28, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> Don't EVEN get me started on my students...

> Judy

I'll get you started, Judy. Maybe the catharsis will do you good.

Both my kids went to a community college, and both got pretty good educations. 
Both have been successful academically after completing community college.

This is a summary of their many reports.

Say my kid signs up for English 5. Because it satisfies a general education 
requirement, it draws a lot of students. You're not allowed to take it unless 
you've passed the English "placement examination." Only about half the incoming 
first-years actually pass the English placement examination.

English 5 starts out with 100 students enrolled. (These are representative 
numbers, not an exact case.) Of these 50 will never attempt to read the 
textbook, take notes, or turn in any homework. Many of these students are 
sponging off Mom, partying a lot. If they're male, they are probably smoking a 
lot of dope and playing Call of Duty all night. They've enrolled partly to 
avoid parental displeasure, to avoid getting a job, to remain eligible for 
parental health insurance, and possibly to qualify for student loans. Some have 
enrolled with the naive belief that they will "get good jobs some day" if they 
merely enroll.

"W" day comes about half way through the semester. If you withdraw from the 
course before W day, you get a "W" instead of an "F" without any hit to your 
grade point average, though you don't get credit for the course.

The week before "W" day, about seventy students show up for the course. The 
rest have stopped attending, with our without Ws. The week after W day, about 
forty students show up for the course.

Of the remaining forty students, fifteen will fail the course. Why they didn't 
take W's when they had the chance is an ongoing mystery. Some of these were 
doomed to fail, by virtue of poor educational success in grades K-12.

The twenty-five who pass have made some effort to study.

About eight of the original 100 will get A's. They have made at least a modest 
effort to study and do homework. The professor, in most cases, has bravely 
maintained some kind of academic standard. She has taught to the students who 
have some desire to learn.

Many of the students who pass the course will get Cs and Ds, representing 
little if any mastery of the material.

This has been going on for years at my local community college, and likely many 
others like it around the country and maybe in the U.K., too. It is the 
unintended consequence of teaching first graders (and their parents) that the 
whole purpose of the first grade is to prepare every student for college.

I don't know where you teach, Judy. Cal State Fullerton?

I hope it's better there than at my local community college. Unfortunately, you 
do get some of the students who got Cs and Ds at community college.

Cheers,

Tim

> 
> 
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Petrides, M.D. Marian wrote:
> 
>> Hmmm... sounds suspiciously like "No Child Left Behind" here in the States. 
>> The sad thing on our side of the pond is that NCLB worked so well (NOT!) 
>> that they have decided to apply its principles to graduate medical 
>> education.  The scary thing is that we Boomers will be the recipients of 
>> this wonderful brand of medical care. <--- (dripping with sarcasm, if you 
>> couldn't already tell)
> 

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SFTP externals

2011-08-28 Thread Chipp Walters

Hey guys. Chris has been working on some cool sftp externals for LC and
currently they are working on Mac and PC with iOS and Linux support next.

They do the following:

Open
Close
isConnected
GetDir
MkDir
GetRemoteFile (has async progress messages)
PutLocalFile ( has async progress messages)
DeleteRemoteFile

Anything else you can think of that you use in an sftp external?
Also, send me an email offlist if you NEED to beta test. Thanks.

-- 
Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
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Re: the dynamicPaths

Hi Ken,

I get it. Thanks a bunch.

Tim

On Aug 28, 2011, at 5:49 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
> 
> I looked this up to be sure (Jean DeVoto's got a diagram and explanation of 
> the dynamic paths on this page: 
> http://www.jaedworks.com/hypercard/HT-Masters/scripting.html - go to the 
> section called "The Message Path"), but basically it goes like this:
> 
> Imagine you have a stack with two cards, and a button the first card. 
> 
> The script of card one is empty.
> 
> The script of card two is:
> 
> on DoIt
>  answer "I'm on card 2"
> end DoIt
> 
> The script of button on card 1 is:
> 
> on mouseUp
>  go card 2
>  DoIt
> end mouseUp
> 
> In HyperCard (or if the dynamicPaths property is true in LiveCode), you'll 
> click the button, go to card 2 and the answer box will say "I'm on card 2". 
> If the dynamicPaths is false (the default) and you click the button, you go 
> to card 2, but then get a "can't find handler" error dialog. This is because 
> with the dynamicPaths turned *off*, LC will look in the normal message path 
> (from the button you clicked's perspective) to find the handler "DoIt". Since 
> it's not in the script of card 1 or in the stack script, you get the error 
> dialog. Turn it on, and card 2's script hierarchy (card/background/stack) is 
> inserted *between* the stack script and the libraries/backscripts/engine. So 
> this would mean the message would go:
> 
> button 1 -> card 1 -> background(s) -> stack -> card 2 -> background(s) -> 
> stack -> libraries/backscripts/etc -> Engine
> 
> Hope I have this right...
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: k...@sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

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Re: Sound formats on Android

2011-08-28 Thread Admin

PCM/Wave is wave files 

Ogg Vorbis is .ogg - you could try that
one - very good mp3-like format. 

FLAC is another specialized
compressed format - I would not use this because not a lot of 3rd party
support for it. 

AAC is a sony format and is used with mp4 files 

AMR
is more specialized for Android and mobile devices following the 3gp
format. 

MP3 is a good format and i'll see if it works on my Android
devices. 

Your best bet is still 44.1k 16 bit wave file or you can try
mp2 44.8k 16 bit dvd resolution files 

I will see what works on my
android devices tonight. 

I use Presonus Studio One pro, cakewalk
sonar, sony sound forge and vegas pro 10, gold wave editor and many
other sound editors, but I own a pro recording studio. 

Mike 

On Sun,
28 Aug 2011 21:01:13 -0500, J. Landman Gay wrote: 

> On 8/28/11 7:57
PM, Admin wrote:
> 
>> Try 44.1khz, 16 bit stereo wave files. Also try
aiff files of the same bit rate and hz. Download wavosaur - very good
editor and free.
> 
> I don't see AIFF in the supported list. I've been
staring at this for a 
> couple of days: 
> 
> I don't know what some of
it means, which is why I could use some 
> specific info about what to
choose in the editor. My sounds were 
> originally 44.1khz .au but only
one would play after I converted them. 
> That's when I started trying
to fix them.
> 
> The list says mono is supported but sounds I've used
successfully in 
> other apps have all been stereo, I think. Maybe that
matters.

Links:
--
[1]
http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/media-formats.html
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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain

2011-08-28 Thread Judy Perry


Don't EVEN get me started on my students...

Judy

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Petrides, M.D. Marian wrote:


Hmmm... sounds suspiciously like "No Child Left Behind" here in the States. The 
sad thing on our side of the pond is that NCLB worked so well (NOT!) that they have decided 
to apply its principles to graduate medical education.  The scary thing is that we Boomers 
will be the recipients of this wonderful brand of medical care. <--- (dripping with 
sarcasm, if you couldn't already tell)


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Re: Sound formats on Android


On 8/28/11 7:57 PM, Admin wrote:



Try 44.1khz, 16 bit stereo wave files. Also try aiff files of the
same bit rate and hz. Download wavosaur - very good editor and free.


I don't see AIFF in the supported list. I've been staring at this for a 
couple of days: 



I don't know what some of it means, which is why I could use some 
specific info about what to choose in the editor. My sounds were 
originally 44.1khz .au but only one would play after I converted them. 
That's when I started trying to fix them.


The list says mono is supported but sounds I've used successfully in 
other apps have all been stereo, I think. Maybe that matters.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: the dynamicPaths

2011-08-28 Thread Ken Ray


On Aug 28, 2011, at 7:49 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>>> If a stack's dynamicPaths property is true, when a handler in that stack 
>>> uses the go or find command to go to a card other than the original card, 
>>> that destination card's message path is inserted into the message path as 
>>> long as the handler is on that card.
>> 
>> 
>> "I see," said the blind man, to the deaf dog. This entry might benefit from 
>> a clarifying comment.
>> 
>> Can someone explain precisely the difference between hyperCard's "dynamic 
>> path behavior" and LiveCode's message path?
> 
> I looked this up to be sure (Jean DeVoto's got a diagram

Sorry, Jeanne... I was typing too fast and misspelled your name by accident. 
Whoops!

:*)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: k...@sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/  

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Re: Sound formats on Android

2011-08-28 Thread Admin

  

Try 44.1khz, 16 bit stereo wave files. Also try aiff files of the
same bit rate and hz. Download wavosaur - very good editor and free.


Mike 

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:27:16 -0500, J. Landman Gay wrote: 

> I
have five sound effects I need to play on Android. Originally I 
>
converted them to mp3 but only one would play, so I started working with

> .wav files, with the same results (but at least I got an error in
"the 
> result" with wavs -- sound format not supported.) These are all
mono 
> channel sounds.
> 
> So I re-saved them in various ways with
little success. I have access 
> only to Sox and Audacity. The best
results were at 22050 hz, 32-bit 
> float. When I save them all that
way, three will play. Two will not. As 
> far as I can tell they have
all been saved with identical settings, but 
> I could be missing
something.
> 
> Could someone suggest the best settings to use and how
to accomplish 
> that in one of those two programs? Sox uses terminology
I don't 
> understand (bytes, words) and Audacity seems to give erratic
results.

  
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Re: the dynamicPaths

2011-08-28 Thread Ken Ray

>> If a stack's dynamicPaths property is true, when a handler in that stack 
>> uses the go or find command to go to a card other than the original card, 
>> that destination card's message path is inserted into the message path as 
>> long as the handler is on that card.
> 
> 
> "I see," said the blind man, to the deaf dog. This entry might benefit from a 
> clarifying comment.
> 
> Can someone explain precisely the difference between hyperCard's "dynamic 
> path behavior" and LiveCode's message path?

I looked this up to be sure (Jean DeVoto's got a diagram and explanation of the 
dynamic paths on this page: 
http://www.jaedworks.com/hypercard/HT-Masters/scripting.html - go to the 
section called "The Message Path"), but basically it goes like this:

Imagine you have a stack with two cards, and a button the first card. 

The script of card one is empty.

The script of card two is:

on DoIt
  answer "I'm on card 2"
end DoIt

The script of button on card 1 is:

on mouseUp
  go card 2
  DoIt
end mouseUp

In HyperCard (or if the dynamicPaths property is true in LiveCode), you'll 
click the button, go to card 2 and the answer box will say "I'm on card 2". If 
the dynamicPaths is false (the default) and you click the button, you go to 
card 2, but then get a "can't find handler" error dialog. This is because with 
the dynamicPaths turned *off*, LC will look in the normal message path (from 
the button you clicked's perspective) to find the handler "DoIt". Since it's 
not in the script of card 1 or in the stack script, you get the error dialog. 
Turn it on, and card 2's script hierarchy (card/background/stack) is inserted 
*between* the stack script and the libraries/backscripts/engine. So this would 
mean the message would go:

button 1 -> card 1 -> background(s) -> stack -> card 2 -> background(s) -> 
stack -> libraries/backscripts/etc -> Engine

Hope I have this right...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: k...@sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/  

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Re: OT: Is there any way for someone to see my MAC address over the internet?

2011-08-28 Thread Mark Wieder

Richard-

Thursday, August 25, 2011, 11:31:18 AM, you wrote:

> patience can endure, but at least I get to decide when I'm being
> cookie-tracked.

Possibly. For instance, I can see that you use Thunderbird 3.1.7 for
email on an Intel mac system running OSX 10.6 over a pacbell.net dsl
connection with public ip 63.197.161.26, your domain is hosted by
tierra.net server on the west coast, and your computer is named
"Mactintosh-2". That seems pretty specific.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain

On Aug 28, 2011, at 12:31 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> Frankly I don't really care about fairness that much; has life been "fair" to 
> you, has it been "fair" to me? A silly question which has no real answer 
> (probably because the word, 'fair', at its centre is almost semantically 
> empty). I am a human being, who, as a human being, cares more about his kids 
> than somebody else's. I am not going to pretend (as we, in Scotland, know 
> full well how they pretend 'doun sooth') that I
> am a wishy-washy liberal who, by stretching his resources to be 'fair' helps 
> no one at all.

I didn't say that you ought to be fair.

On the other hand, many voters, politicians, teachers, administrators and 
parents are very concerned about fairness. You might have trouble persuading 
them that they have it all wrong. While you're doing that, they will be trying 
to persuade you that you have it all wrong.

Have fun.

Tim
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Re: LC 4.6.3 Gotcha?

Thanks Jacque,

You have a gift for clear and concise answers, and getting to the gist of a 
question.

The main thing I wondered was whether newer versions of the engine have been 
messing around with the message path. It sounds like the short answer is "Yes."

On Aug 28, 2011, at 3:03 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> 
> Just make sure your group has backgroundbehavior set and it should work the 
> old way.

BackgroundBehavior is set to "true." If it were turned off, I would notice 
because new cards wouldn't look right.

I have learned for the first time that backgroundBehavior also affects the 
message path. Something to think about...

> You shouldn't need to "send" unless the group is a card group (sounds like it 
> might be.)

What is a card group?

Do you mean to say it is necessary to "send" a message to a card group?

Cheers,

Tim
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Sound formats on Android

I have five sound effects I need to play on Android. Originally I 
converted them to mp3 but only one would play, so I started working with 
.wav files, with the same results (but at least I got an error in "the 
result" with wavs -- sound format not supported.) These are all mono 
channel sounds.


So I re-saved them in various ways with little success. I have access 
only to Sox and Audacity. The best results were at 22050 hz, 32-bit 
float. When I save them all that way, three will play. Two will not. As 
far as I can tell they have all been saved with identical settings, but 
I could be missing something.


Could someone suggest the best settings to use and how to accomplish 
that in one of those two programs? Sox uses terminology I don't 
understand (bytes, words) and Audacity seems to give erratic results.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: is LOKI down?

2011-08-28 Thread Pierre Sahores

99% down, aka minutes needed to get a response... Seemed me it was the same 
last Sunday at the same time... Some kind of unwanted "pseudo cron job" at work 
?

Le 29 août 2011 à 00:05, Andre Garzia a écrit :

> Folks,
> 
> Can anyone confirm that loki server on on-rev is down?
> 
> Cheers
> andre
> 
> -- 
> http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
www.sahores-conseil.com




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Re: is LOKI down?

2011-08-28 Thread Matthias Rebbe

Hi,

yes since about 1hour ( 23:49 german local time).  I already sent an email to 
support.
Earlier this evening i already noticed some performance problems. Connecting to 
cPanel took very long.
And we had some ftp time-out errors. 

Regards,

Matthias


Am 29.08.2011 um 00:05 schrieb Andre Garzia:

> Folks,
> 
> Can anyone confirm that loki server on on-rev is down?
> 
> Cheers
> andre
> 
> -- 
> http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: is LOKI down?

2011-08-28 Thread Alex Tweedly

It responds to pings, but I can't get to any of my websites, or open an 
ftp connection, so I'd say it is down.


-- Alex.

On 28/08/2011 23:05, Andre Garzia wrote:

Folks,

Can anyone confirm that loki server on on-rev is down?

Cheers
andre




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is LOKI down?

2011-08-28 Thread Andre Garzia

Folks,

Can anyone confirm that loki server on on-rev is down?

Cheers
andre

-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: LC 4.6.3 Gotcha?


On 8/27/11 2:43 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:


send "fooHandler" to stack "schedule" works. "fooHandler" finds its
way through the hierarchy to the group.

I know it works because I had to re-write my script that way to get
it working again. The older version was just:

go to stack "schedule" fooHandler

Was the old version incorrect?


It couldn't have been or it wouldn't have worked. It's the normal way to 
use the message hierarchy.




The older version worked for years, stopped working a few days ago.
I'm trying to figure out why it stopped working.


Newer versions of the engine have been messing around with group message 
hierarchies. I've lost track because it's been changed several times. 
For a while, any group that was shared by two or more cards was 
automatically treated as a background. Recently that's changed so that 
groups can share cards without being a background. It gets complicated.


Just make sure your group has backgroundbehavior set and it should work 
the old way. You shouldn't need to "send" unless the group is a card 
group (sounds like it might be.)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain

2011-08-28 Thread Dave McKee

It's a situation not limited to the UK, it's the same here in Canada

Hodie Non Cras

On 2011-08-28, at 12:46 PM, Richmond Mathewson  
wrote:

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133
> 
> doesn't frankly surprise me; after all "Being British" is all about dumbing
> down things to the lowest common denominator; education, over-regulation 
> (after all, if 5% of the population are morons the government must screw up 
> everybody's life by regulating things to protect the morons from themselves: 
> maybe the morons should be told "you are morons, get off your fat, 
> supplementary-benefit-fed bottoms and start getting your brains working).
> 
> I have just been looking at a series of letters written to my younger son 
> from his erstwhile school mates at his school in Fife, Scotland; filled with 
> basic spelling errors and grammar problems (these kids were 11 at the time); 
> most of them being monoglot English speakers, a few spoke Fife-Scots at home. 
> My sons, who have  English and Bulgarian as mother tongues, and are both 
> fluent in German, don't make those sort of spelling errors in any of their 3 
> dominant languages.
> 
> If sschool kids cannot spell in their school language how on earth can one 
> expect them to get their programming syntax right, let alone the odd nested 
> FOR . . . NEXT loop?
> 
> My younger son starts at Salem on the 10th; as the highest scholarship holder:
> 
> http://www.salem-net.de/
> 
> I wonder why I'm not sending him to school in Britain?
> 
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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain


On 08/28/2011 10:25 PM, FlexibleLearning wrote:

After 20+ years in secondary school, don't even get me started. With you,
Richmond, 100%. Which is why I left.


Congratulations.

I have started my own mini-institution that is frighteningly selective,
frighteningly elitist, and doesn't suffer morons. Oddly enough, it does 
well, and the kids change quite rapidly (or they get hoofed out) into 
active, happy learners, who are always keeping me jumping around like a 
cat on hot bricks.


Hugh Senior
FLCo



Richmond Mathewson wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133

doesn't frankly surprise me; after all "Being British" is all about dumbing
down things to the lowest common denominator; education, over-regulation
(after all, if 5% of the population are morons the government must screw
up everybody's life by regulating things to protect the morons from
themselves: maybe the morons should be told "you are morons, get off
your fat, supplementary-benefit-fed bottoms and start getting your
brains working).

I have just been looking at a series of letters written to my younger
son from his erstwhile school mates at his school in Fife, Scotland;
filled with basic spelling errors and grammar problems (these kids were
11 at the time); most of them being monoglot English speakers, a few
spoke Fife-Scots at home. My sons, who have  English and Bulgarian as
mother tongues, and are both fluent in German, don't make those sort of
spelling errors in any of their 3 dominant languages.

If sschool kids cannot spell in their school language how on earth can
one expect them to get their programming syntax right, let alone the odd
nested FOR . . . NEXT loop?

My younger son starts at Salem on the 10th; as the highest scholarship
holder:

http://www.salem-net.de/

I wonder why I'm not sending him to school in Britain?


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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain

>There are some fundamental philosophical contradictions between 
"meritocracy"
>and "fairness." Society -- in the US, UK and elsewhere -- is not 
prepared to deal with
>these difficult issues and generally chooses to ignore the problem. 
Have a nice day,

>Tim Miller

Indeed there are some fundamental philosophical contradictions: a 
meritocracy
should be based on merit; and that, as we are all well aware, can come 
as merit

in the form of intelligence and/or whether Mummy and Daddy can pay.

I certainly do not want my second son (who is intelligent) sitting next 
to young people
who are going to have a bad influence on his motivation (just had 2 
years of that, so off he goes to the most elitist school in Europe; for 
very little money indeed because his educational merit has been 
recognised). My first son, despite his intelligence, has
suffered to an extent by mixing with disinterested kids for homes where 
education comes a poor second after drooling over moronic tv programmes 
and computer games; he, as a result of that, has to spend a year 
somewhere where he doesn't
want to playing catch-up with those who went to elitist schools: I 
regret that my wife and I were goofy enough, in the interests of him 
mixing socially with all strata of society, to leave him there and not 
pull him out when the warning signs first showed.


Frankly I don't really care about fairness that much; has life been 
"fair" to you, has it been "fair" to me? A silly question which has no 
real answer (probably because the word, 'fair', at its centre is almost 
semantically empty). I am a human being, who, as a human being, cares 
more about his kids than somebody else's. I am not going to pretend (as 
we, in Scotland, know full well how they pretend 'doun sooth') that I
am a wishy-washy liberal who, by stretching his resources to be 'fair' 
helps no one at all.


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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain

2011-08-28 Thread FlexibleLearning

After 20+ years in secondary school, don't even get me started. With you,
Richmond, 100%. Which is why I left.

Hugh Senior
FLCo



Richmond Mathewson wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133

doesn't frankly surprise me; after all "Being British" is all about dumbing
down things to the lowest common denominator; education, over-regulation
(after all, if 5% of the population are morons the government must screw
up everybody's life by regulating things to protect the morons from
themselves: maybe the morons should be told "you are morons, get off
your fat, supplementary-benefit-fed bottoms and start getting your
brains working).

I have just been looking at a series of letters written to my younger
son from his erstwhile school mates at his school in Fife, Scotland;
filled with basic spelling errors and grammar problems (these kids were
11 at the time); most of them being monoglot English speakers, a few
spoke Fife-Scots at home. My sons, who have  English and Bulgarian as
mother tongues, and are both fluent in German, don't make those sort of
spelling errors in any of their 3 dominant languages.

If sschool kids cannot spell in their school language how on earth can
one expect them to get their programming syntax right, let alone the odd
nested FOR . . . NEXT loop?

My younger son starts at Salem on the 10th; as the highest scholarship
holder:

http://www.salem-net.de/

I wonder why I'm not sending him to school in Britain?


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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain

On Aug 28, 2011, at 9:46 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133
> 
> doesn't frankly surprise me; after all "Being British" is all about dumbing
> down things to the lowest common denominator; education, over-regulation 
> (after all, if 5% of the population are morons the government must screw up 
> everybody's life by regulating things to protect the morons from themselves: 
> maybe the morons should be told "you are morons, get off your fat, 
> supplementary-benefit-fed bottoms and start getting your brains working).
> Contrary to all the urban legends, schools are not actually getting worse.

Contrary to urban legend, public education is not deteriorating.

During the imaginary "good old days," students were usually segregated by race, 
class, income, or address. Students who were not learning successfully were 
generally kept out of public view. Expectations for such students were low. 
Unsuccessful students often dropped out of school when they were still 
relatively young. Truancy laws were not strictly enforced in downscale and 
nonwhite neighborhoods, nor were child labor laws.

For as long as public education has existed, there have been large numbers of 
sixth graders who read at the second grade level. And so on...

In recent years, students are mixed in the same schools, often the same 
classrooms, with little regard for race, class, income, address, motivation or 
ability. Students supported by very little "social capital" sit desk-by-desk 
with students who enjoy a great deal of social capital.

Meanwhile, social and political sentiment has turned against grouping students 
in classrooms (not to mention schools) according to ability. 

Students who would have dropped out of school (often younger than the official 
age of sixteen) in decades past often share the same classrooms with bright and 
highly motivated students.

In many cities around the US (and presumably the UK) affluent families who live 
in economically and ethnically mixed school districts send their relatively 
skilled and motivated students to private schools. This increases the 
concentration of unskilled and unmotivated students in public schools.

Unskilled and unmotivated students in private schools are generally not 
welcomed and tolerated. They end up back in public schools. This also increases 
the concentration of unmotivated and unskilled students in public schools.

As Richard suggests, these changes have occurred largely because of changes in 
government regulation. Good idea or bad? Over-regulation? That's highly 
debatable.

I know of a prominent grade 8 to 12 charter school, renowned to be "very 
effective." It's not allowed to "discriminate," but those with access to inside 
information know that unmotivated and unsuccessful students are informally 
pressured by teachers, staff, and students to return to public school.

I also know of prominent K to & charter schools located in poor neighborhoods, 
renowned to be "very effective." It's well known that these schools 
differentially attract stable families who value education.

Much research indicates that students learn best when grouped by ability, not 
age. Teachers teach most effectively when their students are grouped by 
ability. School teachers know this very well, from first-hand experience. 
Students of similar ability have the opportunity to enjoy participation in a 
"community of learners." This probably enhances morale for all involved, 
including the "slow learners."

Few public school classrooms these days can be described as a "community of 
learners." This includes community colleges and downscale state colleges.

However, grouping students by ability rather than age also causes problems. 
Most voters in the US and UK oppose it, because it seems "discriminatory," and 
they fear it would make the "education gap" worse instead of better. Some 
parents -- also some educators, politicians and social scientists, believe that 
a less skilled student will become more skilled if he shares a classroom with a 
more skilled student. This reflects the current obsession with "good schools." 
Poor parents hope that their children will perform better if they are able to 
attend "good schools." As far as I can tell, little evidence supports this 
supposition.

It's pretty clear that if students were grouped by ability in public schools, 
in the U.S. or U.K., the most skilled classrooms, relative to age, would look 
predominantly white (and Asian) and upper-middle-class.

Various haphazard mechanisms sometimes group students by ability to some 
degree. "Advanced placement" courses in high school. A few children are obliged 
to repeat a grade or allowed to "skip a grade."

In the U.S, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, students were grouped by 
ability rather than age. Various problems occurred. Older and less able 
students felt discouraged and humiliated. Younger and more able students were 
bullied and deprived of the op

[OT] sneaking around the internet


Cop a load of this:

https://www.torproject.org/index.html.en

oddly enough 'tor' means 'dung' in Bulgarian . . .  :)

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Re: OT: Is there any way for someone to see my MAC address over the internet?

2011-08-28 Thread Martin Baxter

On 25/08/2011 19:31, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Michael D Mays wrote:
> 
>> Is there any way for someone to see any personal information about my
>> machine over the internet via a web browser?
> 

> I run with NoScript and a cookie blocker on, selectively activating
> scripts and cookies as needed.  Even that's at the edge of what my
> patience can endure, but at least I get to decide when I'm being
> cookie-tracked.
> 

Or so you believe.

You do remember to delete your browser cache as well?



Martin Baxter


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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain


On 08/28/2011 09:12 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133

doesn't frankly surprise me; after all "Being British" is all
about dumbing down things to the lowest common denominator;
education, over-regulation (after all, if 5% of the
population are morons the government must screw up
everybody's life by regulating things to protect the morons from
themselves: maybe the morons should be told "you are morons,
get off your fat, supplementary-benefit-fed bottoms and start
getting your brains working).

I don't think the phenomenon is limited to the UK, sadly.

The base of the pillar is the family. Too many parents are anti-academic



10 points for Gryffindor!


  or
don't care enough to see that their kids have at least the same
opportunities that the parents had at the same age (or better, where it
should be). Fix the base, everything else becomes a lot easier.


Education should start and finish at home; the odd, stray bit of 
education at some vaguely educational institution in the middle might be 
useful, but is not strictly necessary.




Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server


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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain


On 08/28/2011 08:56 PM, John Dixon wrote:

Richmond...

You often make me smile when you vent about something that obviously gets right 
up your nose...


Well, I'm glad I make somebody smile . . .  :) Mind you, if I didn't I 
might smite you over the head with my slide-rule . . .  :)



so, I thought I would feed give you the link to a little story about some 
people who are obviously morons... they go by the names of Mark Smith and Dan 
Abelow... and I'm sat here laughing just wondering what your take it going to 
be on this one... :-)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14682700

It might be of interest to those who are trying to develop and sell their 
'cottage industry' apps... as it seems to me that these morons have decided it 
might be clever to try and patent the wheel...


Well, speaking as someone who has been spending buckets of time over the 
last 2 years on his 'cottage industry' app I feel really very sorry for 
Mark and Dan; they

cannot be complete morons if they managed to write some reasonable software.

Obviously the people at Lodsys are very, very intelligent, and evil!

Actually (err, sorry; "aksherlly") the thing that worries me about about 
90% of education regardless of where it is, is that it seems to consist 
of fact-cramming
and licking young folk into towing the accepted social line. Things that 
are missing are How To Think Outside the Box, How To Take Nothing For 
Granted and How To

Say Boo to a Goose.

Last month a whole lot of kids at my school told me that they really 
didn't want me to teach them that day; so I lay down on the sofa, closed 
my eyes and said "get on with it then"; and they did; occasionally 
prodding me for information or help; meanwhile
I was able to get my head round a Unicode-with-Livecode problem that had 
given me an itch in one of my cerebral succuli for quite some time.
The kids achieved, that day, at least as much without my "direct 
teaching" as they

would have achieved with me ramming stuff at them like a pile-driver.

That is education!


Dixie






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RE: [OT] Mediocre Britain

2011-08-28 Thread Lynn Fredricks

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133
> 
> doesn't frankly surprise me; after all "Being British" is all 
> about dumbing down things to the lowest common denominator; 
> education, over-regulation (after all, if 5% of the 
> population are morons the government must screw up 
> everybody's life by regulating things to protect the morons from
> themselves: maybe the morons should be told "you are morons, 
> get off your fat, supplementary-benefit-fed bottoms and start 
> getting your brains working).

I don't think the phenomenon is limited to the UK, sadly.

The base of the pillar is the family. Too many parents are anti-academic or
don't care enough to see that their kids have at least the same
opportunities that the parents had at the same age (or better, where it
should be). Fix the base, everything else becomes a lot easier.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 


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the dynamicPaths

Good morning. Everyone in New York and North Carolina okay?

>From the dictionary: 

> Use the dynamicPaths property for compatibility with imported HyperCard 
> stacks that rely on HyperCard's dynamic path behavior.


Also from the dictionary:

> If a stack's dynamicPaths property is true, when a handler in that stack uses 
> the go or find command to go to a card other than the original card, that 
> destination card's message path is inserted into the message path as long as 
> the handler is on that card.


"I see," said the blind man, to the deaf dog. This entry might benefit from a 
clarifying comment.

Can someone explain precisely the difference between hyperCard's "dynamic path 
behavior" and LiveCode's message path?


Cheers,


Tim
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RE: [OT] Mediocre Britain

2011-08-28 Thread John Dixon


Richmond...

You often make me smile when you vent about something that obviously gets right 
up your nose... so, I thought I would feed give you the link to a little story 
about some people who are obviously morons... they go by the names of Mark 
Smith and Dan Abelow... and I'm sat here laughing just wondering what your take 
it going to be on this one... :-)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14682700

It might be of interest to those who are trying to develop and sell their 
'cottage industry' apps... as it seems to me that these morons have decided it 
might be clever to try and patent the wheel...

Dixie


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133
> 
> doesn't frankly surprise me; after all "Being British" is all about dumbing
> down things to the lowest common denominator; education, over-regulation 
> (after all, if 5% of the population are morons the government must screw 
> up everybody's life by regulating things to protect the morons from 
> themselves: maybe the morons should be told "you are morons, get off 
> your fat, supplementary-benefit-fed bottoms and start getting your 
> brains working).
> 
> I have just been looking at a series of letters written to my younger 
> son from his erstwhile school mates at his school in Fife, Scotland; 
> filled with basic spelling errors and grammar problems (these kids were 
> 11 at the time); most of them being monoglot English speakers, a few 
> spoke Fife-Scots at home. My sons, who have  English and Bulgarian as 
> mother tongues, and are both fluent in German, don't make those sort of 
> spelling errors in any of their 3 dominant languages.
> 
> If sschool kids cannot spell in their school language how on earth can 
> one expect them to get their programming syntax right, let alone the odd 
> nested FOR . . . NEXT loop?
> 
> My younger son starts at Salem on the 10th; as the highest scholarship 
> holder:
> 
> http://www.salem-net.de/
> 
> I wonder why I'm not sending him to school in Britain?
> 
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Re: LC 4.6.3 Gotcha?

On Aug 28, 2011, at 4:16 AM, Peter M. Brigham, MD wrote:

> From the user guide:
> 
> "If a stack's dynamicPaths property is set to true, message handlers in that
> stack use HyperCard's dynamic path behavior: if a handler uses the go or find
> command to go to a card other than the original card, that destination card's 
> message path
> is inserted into the message path as long as the handler is on that card. The
> dynamicPaths property is provided for compatibility with imported HyperCard 
> stacks,
> and is normally set to false, but you may encounter this behavior when 
> working with a
> stack that was originally created in HyperCard."
> 
-- Peter

Thankya Peter, you may be onto something here. I found at least one stack where 
the dynamicPaths is set to "false." That could cause erratic behavior, I 
suppose.

As I read the dictionary carefully, it appears that theDynamicPaths refers only 
to the "go" and "find" commands. It doesn't say anything about handlers being 
sent along the normal message path.

(This thread is getting complicated. I'm going to start another thread about 
the dynamicPaths.)

In my case, "go" and "find" seem to be working fine. The way a handler gets 
sent along the normal message path to another stack seems to have changed.

> From the dictionary: "Use the send command to override the normal message 
> path, or to delay a command until a specified time."

My script only uses the normal message path.

>From the dictionary:

> "When the send command is used the stack containing the target handler 
> temporarily becomes the defaultStack." 

Hmmm... In my case, the old script, which stopped working, did not use the 
"send" command. The handler sat by itself on a single line of the script.

I had the impression that this is the normal way of sending a handler along the 
normal message path, as long as the handler is only one word. Has that changed? 
The dictionary entry seems to suggest that using "send" is not necessary and 
might slow down a script.

>From the dictionary: 

> Note:  Using the sendcommand is slower than directly executing the commands 
> using the normal message path. For best efficiency, use the sendcommand only 
> when you want to delay the message or when the handler you want to execute is 
> not in the message path.

Despite various sensible suggestions, it still seems possible that LC 4.6.x has 
slightly altered the way messages get sent along the normal message path. 
Perhaps deliberately, perhaps unwittingly.

If that's true, I suppose other users will experience some problems.

Every complex application has inexplicable anomalies. Maybe I've run into one. 
On the other hand, for every actual inexplicable anomaly, there are 1000 
instances of user error.

I'll change the script back to the old way, make sure it still doesn't work and 
trace it precisely. I'll report back if I find anything interesting. 

Cheers,

Tim

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Re: ANN: ibPopover DropTool

2011-08-28 Thread René Micout

Thank you ! Ismo and Ken...
Better than "HUD Panel Factory"... I think...
René

Le 28 août 2011 à 19:00, Ken Ray a écrit :

> Just a quick post to let you know that Ismo Bergroth created a free new 
> DropTool control called "ibPopover". Here's Ismo's post to the LiveCode 
> forums about the control:
> 
> "The ibPopover control mimics the behavior of popovers introduced in OS X 
> Lion. Basically it is a translucent window with an arrow pointing to the 
> source it was opened from. Popovers automatically move whenever the main 
> stack moves. ibPopover also allows detaching to become a separate window. 
> When the popover is detached it will no longer be moved when the main stack 
> moves. Closing the detached window will make it open in it's original 
> position when it is invoked the next time. Nondetachable popovers cannot be 
> moved. "
> 
> You can get more info on the DropTools site at:
> 
>http://droptools.sonsothunder.com/products/ib/ib-pop.irev
> 
> 
> Thanks, Ismo! Keep 'em coming...
> 
> :D
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: k...@sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
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ANN: ibPopover DropTool

2011-08-28 Thread Ken Ray

Just a quick post to let you know that Ismo Bergroth created a free new 
DropTool control called "ibPopover". Here's Ismo's post to the LiveCode forums 
about the control:

"The ibPopover control mimics the behavior of popovers introduced in OS X Lion. 
Basically it is a translucent window with an arrow pointing to the source it 
was opened from. Popovers automatically move whenever the main stack moves. 
ibPopover also allows detaching to become a separate window. When the popover 
is detached it will no longer be moved when the main stack moves. Closing the 
detached window will make it open in it's original position when it is invoked 
the next time. Nondetachable popovers cannot be moved. "

You can get more info on the DropTools site at:

http://droptools.sonsothunder.com/products/ib/ib-pop.irev


Thanks, Ismo! Keep 'em coming...

:D

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: k...@sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/  

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Re: [OT] Mediocre Britain

2011-08-28 Thread Petrides, M.D. Marian

Hmmm... sounds suspiciously like "No Child Left Behind" here in the States. The 
sad thing on our side of the pond is that NCLB worked so well (NOT!) that they 
have decided to apply its principles to graduate medical education.  The scary 
thing is that we Boomers will be the recipients of this wonderful brand of 
medical care. <--- (dripping with sarcasm, if you couldn't already tell)


On Aug 28, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133
> 
> doesn't frankly surprise me; after all "Being British" is all about dumbing
> down things to the lowest common denominator; education, over-regulation 
> (after all, if 5% of the population are morons the government must screw up 
> everybody's life by regulating things to protect the morons from themselves: 
> maybe the morons should be told "you are morons, get off your fat, 
> supplementary-benefit-fed bottoms and start getting your brains working).
> 
> I have just been looking at a series of letters written to my younger son 
> from his erstwhile school mates at his school in Fife, Scotland; filled with 
> basic spelling errors and grammar problems (these kids were 11 at the time); 
> most of them being monoglot English speakers, a few spoke Fife-Scots at home. 
> My sons, who have  English and Bulgarian as mother tongues, and are both 
> fluent in German, don't make those sort of spelling errors in any of their 3 
> dominant languages.
> 
> If sschool kids cannot spell in their school language how on earth can one 
> expect them to get their programming syntax right, let alone the odd nested 
> FOR . . . NEXT loop?
> 
> My younger son starts at Salem on the 10th; as the highest scholarship holder:
> 
> http://www.salem-net.de/
> 
> I wonder why I'm not sending him to school in Britain?
> 
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> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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[OT] Mediocre Britain