Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[stephen barncard]

The keyspan adapter requires drivers, and they are still updated regularly.
Until the relatively recent full adoption of USB by PCs   (Macs were the
first personal computer to use USB in 1997)  RS232 was the universal
interface standard for peripherals, and made adoption of these devices
cross-platform as long as the codes were published. Sometimes I've been
able to put a 'man in the middle' tap to a  RS232  connection to see the
commands that the proprietary software sends using a second computer or
even a terminal. And at least for a modem, commands are sent in plain text
using the Hayes AT command set.

http://michaelgellis.tripod.com/modem.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayes_command_set



On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 7:03 AM, Ben Rubinstein  wrote:

> On 17/01/2013 18:42, Robert Sneidar wrote:
>
>> ALL USB devices are serial. That is what the S in USB stands for. You may
>> mean I think, that the protocol is similar to 9 pin protocols like RS232? I
>> don't think that is true, but I am not an expert in protocols.
>>
>
> Fair point.  What I meant (or at least, with hindsight, what I meant to
> mean!) is that while it's true that LiveCode "has no USB support" the
> original poster might well find that LiveCode on a modern machine with no
> RS232 port can operate a USB modem in exactly the same way as HyperCard was
> able to operate an RS232 modem on the hardware of that time.
>
> LiveCode has no USB support, and for example I don't expect that it would
> be easy to control an arbitrary USB-connected device in the absence of a
> driver for it.  But responding to
>
>
> >>> USB modems are cheap and widely available.
> >>
> >> Of course, there's the problem that LiveCode has no USB support.
> >
> > yeah, that mean being stuck with RS-232 and a Keyspan USB adapter if
> > anything.
>
> I would strongly suspect that a USB modem would be sold with a driver, and
> that a LiveCode stack running on a machine on which the driver has been
> successfully installed would be able to control it using the open
> driver/serialControlString etc elements of the language.
>
> Ben
>
>
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-- 



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[Ben Rubinstein]

On 17/01/2013 18:42, Robert Sneidar wrote:

ALL USB devices are serial. That is what the S in USB stands for. You may mean 
I think, that the protocol is similar to 9 pin protocols like RS232? I don't 
think that is true, but I am not an expert in protocols.


Fair point.  What I meant (or at least, with hindsight, what I meant to mean!) 
is that while it's true that LiveCode "has no USB support" the original poster 
might well find that LiveCode on a modern machine with no RS232 port can 
operate a USB modem in exactly the same way as HyperCard was able to operate 
an RS232 modem on the hardware of that time.


LiveCode has no USB support, and for example I don't expect that it would be 
easy to control an arbitrary USB-connected device in the absence of a driver 
for it.  But responding to


>>> USB modems are cheap and widely available.
>>
>> Of course, there's the problem that LiveCode has no USB support.
>
> yeah, that mean being stuck with RS-232 and a Keyspan USB adapter if
> anything.

I would strongly suspect that a USB modem would be sold with a driver, and 
that a LiveCode stack running on a machine on which the driver has been 
successfully installed would be able to control it using the open 
driver/serialControlString etc elements of the language.


Ben

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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[stephen barncard]

not even close. Adapter code and hardware needed.

On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Robert Sneidar  wrote:

> ALL USB devices are serial. That is what the S in USB stands for. You may
> mean I think, that the protocol is similar to 9 pin protocols like RS232? I
> don't think that is true, but I am not an expert in protocols.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2013, at 7:14 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote:
>
> > Although... many USB devices are pretty much serial,
>
>
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Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[Robert Sneidar]

ALL USB devices are serial. That is what the S in USB stands for. You may mean 
I think, that the protocol is similar to 9 pin protocols like RS232? I don't 
think that is true, but I am not an expert in protocols. 

Bob


On Jan 17, 2013, at 7:14 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote:

> Although... many USB devices are pretty much serial, 


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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[Ben Rubinstein]

Although... many USB devices are pretty much serial, and LC can work with them 
just fine - eg I've interfaced to a bunch of GPS devices, on Windows and Mac, 
all of which are USB in hardware but appear to be serial in software.  I 
wouldn't be at all surprised if a USB modem was similar.


On 15/01/2013 21:14, stephen barncard wrote:

yeah, that mean being stuck with RS-232 and a Keyspan USB adapter if
anything.

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 10:07 AM, J. Landman Gay
wrote:


On 1/15/13 11:59 AM, Timothy Miller wrote:


USB modems are cheap and widely available.



Of course, there's the problem that LiveCode has no USB support.



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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[stephen barncard]

yeah, that mean being stuck with RS-232 and a Keyspan USB adapter if
anything.

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 10:07 AM, J. Landman Gay
wrote:

> On 1/15/13 11:59 AM, Timothy Miller wrote:
>
>> USB modems are cheap and widely available.
>>
>
> Of course, there's the problem that LiveCode has no USB support.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>
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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[J. Landman Gay]

On 1/15/13 1:23 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:


As I open the memory port and write "ponder," I read a dim response.
This was a time when modems had a dedicated serial port that was
supported in some version of HyperCard.


Yup, I think all versions of HC had that. And LiveCode does too, for 
serial ports -- only we don't have those any more.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[Timothy Miller]

On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:07 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 1/15/13 11:59 AM, Timothy Miller wrote:
>> USB modems are cheap and widely available.
> 
> Of course, there's the problem that LiveCode has no USB support.
> 

Okay, I feel stupid now.

I must say, the dictionary entry for "write to driver" does not quite reach the 
standard of "crystal clear" on the USB issue.

Years ago, I had a hyperCard stack that would make outogoing phone calls for 
me, with modem commands. The added convenience was not so great as I had 
expected, so I eventually stopped using it. I've had some vague notion that 
LiveCode retained this ability.

As I open the memory port and write "ponder," I read a dim response. This was a 
time when modems had a dedicated serial port that was supported in some version 
of HyperCard.

Tim


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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[J. Landman Gay]

On 1/15/13 11:59 AM, Timothy Miller wrote:

USB modems are cheap and widely available.


Of course, there's the problem that LiveCode has no USB support.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[Timothy Miller]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

Maybe analog phone lines aren't completely obsolete.

Back to the original question, then

I only need to manipulate three phone lines. USB modems are cheap and widely 
available. I think I can do everything I want -- answer, play recordings, 
listen for key presses, hook flash, transfer calls, and so on, by interacting 
with the modems over the USB ports. LC might do all of this without too much 
difficulty.

Meanwhile, for many roll-your-own projects, LC is the easiest way to do it, all 
the more if one already knows LC.

Wondering again, has anyone attempted something like this in LC?

Asterisk would be over my head. It looks like it can handle very large numbers 
of phone lines and phone calls simultaneously. More than I need. 

Cheers,

Tim


On Jan 15, 2013, at 6:37 AM, Mike Bonner wrote:

> If asterisk will do what you want, but you don't have a spare machine to
> run linux, using a vm with an asterisk implementation in it might work.
> Virtual machines as services can work pretty well. (assuming you can get
> the hardware to behave correctly)
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:37 AM, kee nethery  wrote:
> 
>> Asterisk is HUGE.
>> 
>> There is no reason to port it to Mac. All the cards are what make it so
>> useful and those are all for Linux. Odds are, if there is something that is
>> telephony based that you want done, you can probably configure Asterisk to
>> do it.
>> 
>> You can get books on how to configure Asterisk and I'd suggest that as
>> your first step towards researching how to get the telephony system you
>> desire, assuming GoogleVoice and other services do not meet your needs.
>> 
>> If you were going to do any kind of Livecode Asterisk project for
>> yourself, I'd suggest building something that manipulates Asterisk via
>> command line to do exactly what you want.
>> 
>> Kee
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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[Mike Bonner]

If asterisk will do what you want, but you don't have a spare machine to
run linux, using a vm with an asterisk implementation in it might work.
 Virtual machines as services can work pretty well. (assuming you can get
the hardware to behave correctly)


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:37 AM, kee nethery  wrote:

> Asterisk is HUGE.
>
> There is no reason to port it to Mac. All the cards are what make it so
> useful and those are all for Linux. Odds are, if there is something that is
> telephony based that you want done, you can probably configure Asterisk to
> do it.
>
> You can get books on how to configure Asterisk and I'd suggest that as
> your first step towards researching how to get the telephony system you
> desire, assuming GoogleVoice and other services do not meet your needs.
>
> If you were going to do any kind of Livecode Asterisk project for
> yourself, I'd suggest building something that manipulates Asterisk via
> command line to do exactly what you want.
>
> Kee
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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[kee nethery]

Asterisk is HUGE.

There is no reason to port it to Mac. All the cards are what make it so useful 
and those are all for Linux. Odds are, if there is something that is telephony 
based that you want done, you can probably configure Asterisk to do it.

You can get books on how to configure Asterisk and I'd suggest that as your 
first step towards researching how to get the telephony system you desire, 
assuming GoogleVoice and other services do not meet your needs.

If you were going to do any kind of Livecode Asterisk project for yourself, I'd 
suggest building something that manipulates Asterisk via command line to do 
exactly what you want. 

Kee
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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[Kay C Lan]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Timothy Miller
 wrote:
> It occurs to me I could probably make my own Virtual Receptionist application 
> in LiveCode.

In the not too distant past it may have been easy.

This article was written around 2006:

http://www.macvoip.com/resources/voip_build_a_Mac_pbx.php

The hardware he mentions, a Clipcomm CG-410 doesn't seem to be
available, but there are other FXO adapters (to connect standard
analog phone lines to the ethernet port of a computer) available for
around U$200.

Asterisk, the software mentioned is still actively worked on and seems
to be huge:

https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Asterisk+as+a+Swiss+Army+Knife+of+Telephony

Unfortunately the community that supported the Mac Port of Asterisk
seems to have died long ago.

http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+Getting+Started+on+MacOSX

Can't get this page to load:

www.sunrisetel.net/software/asterisk/asterisk-for-macosx.shtml

Strange, as I don't think the Mac community is any less adverse to
throwing money at the phone companies than the Linux community.

My own perception is that Asterisk is HUGE, that porting it to OS X is
not trivial, therefore writing your own PBX in LC is probably not as
simple as knowing a few AT modem commands.

For those who are bilingual (Linux + Mac) on this List, and are
currently looking for a project, it would seem that a niche exists for
a Mac PBX; in which case 95% of the work is already done.

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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[Timothy Miller]

Thanks, Robert

I've been looking into the matter.

Apparently,  POTS (plain old telephone service) also known as analog phone 
lines, are the past. Telephone over the internet is the future, partly because 
it's more flexible, partly because the bandwidth is much cheaper. The big 
traditional phone companies are trying to keep telephony on their proprietary 
networks, but they are not succeeding.

Several organizations are offering programmable complex Auto-Attendant 
services, also called Virtual Receptionists, at reasonable cost, though this is 
rather new technology. Lots of things can go wrong with that sort of thing.

Hence the temptation to roll my own. Probably isn't going to happen.

Tim




On Jan 14, 2013, at 11:37 AM, Robert Sneidar wrote:

> I think the reason for this is primarily the phasing out of modems. While a 
> modem can be purchased for this use, they don't typically come in computers 
> by default anymore. I think what you need to do is look to purchase a 
> Macintosh compatible telephony modem, which will probably come with software 
> for this purpose. I found this page which may be of some informational use 
> right away when I googled it: 
> http://www.sustworks.com/pa_guide/compatibleModems.html
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> On Jan 13, 2013, at 4:30 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I have to re-think my telephone system for business use. There's only one 
>> employee, me, and I usually can't answer the phone, but I want callers to 
>> have a convenient user-friendly experience, and to reach me when they need 
>> to. Some kind of simple auto-attendant, the ability to transfer a call to 
>> another line, plus the ability to play some recordings, then return to the 
>> main menu. Google Voice will do some of the things I need, but not others.
>> 
>> Over the years, there have been products that do this sort of thing, working 
>> on a dedicated Macintosh. I ran my business phones this way for several 
>> years, a long time ago. Apparently, no such product currently exists for the 
>> Macintosh.
>> 
>> There may be dozens of such products for Windows, probably mostly bad 
>> products. I haven't looked into it yet, and prefer to avoid that option if I 
>> can.
>> 
>> Wondering what to do. More and more companies host some kind of virtual PBX, 
>> but most are intended for large organizations, too expensive for me, or 
>> won't suit my needs.
>> 
>> It occurs to me I could probably make my own Virtual Receptionist 
>> application in LiveCode. I think LC can do everything I need, if used in 
>> conjunction with a modem. (If I'm not mistaken, simple modem commands and 
>> responses can detect key presses, answer calls, hang up, transfer calls and 
>> so on.) On the other hand, it's a pretty big job for do-it-yourself, 
>> particularly for me, a non-expert.
>> 
>> Has this kind of application has already been attempted in LC? Is a usable 
>> version available? Maybe some kind of Virtual Receptionist construction kit? 
>> Anybody know?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,   Tim
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Re: Telephony in LiveCode

[Robert Sneidar]

I think the reason for this is primarily the phasing out of modems. While a 
modem can be purchased for this use, they don't typically come in computers by 
default anymore. I think what you need to do is look to purchase a Macintosh 
compatible telephony modem, which will probably come with software for this 
purpose. I found this page which may be of some informational use right away 
when I googled it: http://www.sustworks.com/pa_guide/compatibleModems.html

Bob


On Jan 13, 2013, at 4:30 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I have to re-think my telephone system for business use. There's only one 
> employee, me, and I usually can't answer the phone, but I want callers to 
> have a convenient user-friendly experience, and to reach me when they need 
> to. Some kind of simple auto-attendant, the ability to transfer a call to 
> another line, plus the ability to play some recordings, then return to the 
> main menu. Google Voice will do some of the things I need, but not others.
> 
> Over the years, there have been products that do this sort of thing, working 
> on a dedicated Macintosh. I ran my business phones this way for several 
> years, a long time ago. Apparently, no such product currently exists for the 
> Macintosh.
> 
> There may be dozens of such products for Windows, probably mostly bad 
> products. I haven't looked into it yet, and prefer to avoid that option if I 
> can.
> 
> Wondering what to do. More and more companies host some kind of virtual PBX, 
> but most are intended for large organizations, too expensive for me, or won't 
> suit my needs.
> 
> It occurs to me I could probably make my own Virtual Receptionist application 
> in LiveCode. I think LC can do everything I need, if used in conjunction with 
> a modem. (If I'm not mistaken, simple modem commands and responses can detect 
> key presses, answer calls, hang up, transfer calls and so on.) On the other 
> hand, it's a pretty big job for do-it-yourself, particularly for me, a 
> non-expert.
> 
> Has this kind of application has already been attempted in LC? Is a usable 
> version available? Maybe some kind of Virtual Receptionist construction kit? 
> Anybody know?
> 
> Thanks in advance,   Tim
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