Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev]

Thanks for this…

Gino

> On Apr 13, 2023, at 8:52 PM, René Bock  wrote:
> 
> In 2019 at the WODay, Dennis Bliefernicht presented a solution to replace 
> mod_webobjects, WOTaskd and WOMonitor using the traefik proxy-server .
> 
> See https://wocommunity.org/podcasts/wowodc/2019/Deployment.mp4 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 13.04.2023 um 14:29 schrieb Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>> :
>> 
>> I was more interested I how K8 could handle the instances and sessions.. I 
>> think it would be a bit difficult to deploy pods and needing to handle 
>> session traffic.
>> 
>> REST would be a lot easier and using  session-less approach.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 13 Apr 2023, at 18:25, Jesse Tayler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Um. The app is mostly session stuff, there’s a few routes but I’m not 
>>> thrilled with the way it is handled and you still have those pages with the 
>>> weird dot notation in the URL…
>>> 
>>> I use ERRest and it’s great, I’m not certain if session objects are created 
>>> during requests, but it won’t have any need for sessions.
>>> 
>>> My WO stuff is a little old-school style I’m afraid.
>>> 
>>> That said, I’d like to improve that stuff!
>>> 
 On Apr 13, 2023, at 7:12 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
  wrote:
 
 
 Do your build the apps using DA/REST so session-less ?
 
 Gino
 
> On 13 Apr 2023, at 17:59, Jesse Tayler via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’m using Docker for WO and like it.
> 
> It controls the environment and tames our big industrial giant stuff and 
> makes it quite manageable.
> 
> 
>> On Apr 13, 2023, at 4:22 AM, Sébastien Rottiers via Webobjects-dev 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Oleksii,
>> 
>> Very interesting blog post ! I’m very interested to move our classical 
>> WebObjects deployment on AWS ec2 with auto scaling, to your Cloud-native 
>> WebObjects deployment solution.
>> Have you some new feedback about your solution in production after some 
>> months ?  Did you move to Kubernetes or still with Swarn ?
>> 
>> Thanks a lot !
>> 
>> Sébastien
>> 
>>> Le 14 août 2022 à 23:20, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev 
>>>  a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Good evening everyone,
>>> 
>>> In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was 
>>> migrated to the Cloud.
>>> To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo 
>>> application 
>>> You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.
>>> I have some more explanations in the post I made 
>>> 
>>>  and some helpful docker images .
>>> 
>>> Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions.
>>> 
>>> best,
>>> Oleksii
>>> 
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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[René Bock via Webobjects-dev]

In 2019 at the WODay, Dennis Bliefernicht presented a solution to replace 
mod_webobjects, WOTaskd and WOMonitor using the traefik proxy-server .

See https://wocommunity.org/podcasts/wowodc/2019/Deployment.mp4




Am 13.04.2023 um 14:29 schrieb Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
:

I was more interested I how K8 could handle the instances and sessions.. I 
think it would be a bit difficult to deploy pods and needing to handle session 
traffic.

REST would be a lot easier and using  session-less approach.



On 13 Apr 2023, at 18:25, Jesse Tayler  wrote:

Um. The app is mostly session stuff, there’s a few routes but I’m not thrilled 
with the way it is handled and you still have those pages with the weird dot 
notation in the URL…

I use ERRest and it’s great, I’m not certain if session objects are created 
during requests, but it won’t have any need for sessions.

My WO stuff is a little old-school style I’m afraid.

That said, I’d like to improve that stuff!

On Apr 13, 2023, at 7:12 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
 wrote:


Do your build the apps using DA/REST so session-less ?

Gino

On 13 Apr 2023, at 17:59, Jesse Tayler via Webobjects-dev 
 wrote:

I’m using Docker for WO and like it.

It controls the environment and tames our big industrial giant stuff and makes 
it quite manageable.


On Apr 13, 2023, at 4:22 AM, Sébastien Rottiers via Webobjects-dev 
 wrote:

Hi Oleksii,

Very interesting blog post ! I’m very interested to move our classical 
WebObjects deployment on AWS ec2 with auto scaling, to your Cloud-native 
WebObjects deployment solution.
Have you some new feedback about your solution in production after some months 
?  Did you move to Kubernetes or still with Swarn ?

Thanks a lot !

Sébastien

Le 14 août 2022 à 23:20, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev 
 a écrit :

Good evening everyone,

In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was migrated to 
the Cloud.
To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo 
application
You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.
I have some more explanations in the post I 
made
 and some helpful docker images.

Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions.

best,
Oleksii

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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev]

I was more interested I how K8 could handle the instances and sessions.. I think it would be a bit difficult to deploy pods and needing to handle session traffic.REST would be a lot easier and using  session-less approach.On 13 Apr 2023, at 18:25, Jesse Tayler  wrote:Um. The app is mostly session stuff, there’s a few routes but I’m not thrilled with the way it is handled and you still have those pages with the weird dot notation in the URL…I use ERRest and it’s great, I’m not certain if session objects are created during requests, but it won’t have any need for sessions.My WO stuff is a little old-school style I’m afraid.That said, I’d like to improve that stuff!On Apr 13, 2023, at 7:12 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev  wrote:Do your build the apps using DA/REST so session-less ?Gino On 13 Apr 2023, at 17:59, Jesse Tayler via Webobjects-dev  wrote:I’m using Docker for WO and like it.It controls the environment and tames our big industrial giant stuff and makes it quite manageable.On Apr 13, 2023, at 4:22 AM, Sébastien Rottiers via Webobjects-dev  wrote:Hi Oleksii,Very interesting blog post ! I’m very interested to move our classical WebObjects deployment on AWS ec2 with auto scaling, to your Cloud-native WebObjects deployment solution.Have you some new feedback about your solution in production after some months ?  Did you move to Kubernetes or still with Swarn ?Thanks a lot !Sébastien Le 14 août 2022 à 23:20, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev  a écrit :Good evening everyone,In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was migrated to the Cloud.To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo application You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.I have some more explanations in the post I made and some helpful docker images.Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions. best,Oleksii
 ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/sebro%40mac.comThis email sent to se...@mac.com ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jtayler%40oeinc.comThis email sent to jtay...@oeinc.com ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ginokris%40mac.comThis email sent to ginok...@mac.com ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jtayler%40oeinc.comThis email sent to jtay...@oeinc.com ___
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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Jesse Tayler via Webobjects-dev]

Um. The app is mostly session stuff, there’s a few routes but I’m not thrilled 
with the way it is handled and you still have those pages with the weird dot 
notation in the URL…

I use ERRest and it’s great, I’m not certain if session objects are created 
during requests, but it won’t have any need for sessions.

My WO stuff is a little old-school style I’m afraid.

That said, I’d like to improve that stuff!

> On Apr 13, 2023, at 7:12 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Do your build the apps using DA/REST so session-less ?
> 
> Gino 
> 
>> On 13 Apr 2023, at 17:59, Jesse Tayler via Webobjects-dev 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m using Docker for WO and like it.
>> 
>> It controls the environment and tames our big industrial giant stuff and 
>> makes it quite manageable.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 13, 2023, at 4:22 AM, Sébastien Rottiers via Webobjects-dev 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Oleksii,
>>> 
>>> Very interesting blog post ! I’m very interested to move our classical 
>>> WebObjects deployment on AWS ec2 with auto scaling, to your Cloud-native 
>>> WebObjects deployment solution.
>>> Have you some new feedback about your solution in production after some 
>>> months ?  Did you move to Kubernetes or still with Swarn ?
>>> 
>>> Thanks a lot !
>>> 
>>> Sébastien 
>>> 
 Le 14 août 2022 à 23:20, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev 
  a écrit :
 
 Good evening everyone,
 
 In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was 
 migrated to the Cloud.
 To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo application 
  
 You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.
 I have some more explanations in the post I made 
 
  and some helpful docker images .
 
 Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions. 
 
 best,
 Oleksii
 
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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev]

Do your build the apps using DA/REST so session-less ?Gino On 13 Apr 2023, at 17:59, Jesse Tayler via Webobjects-dev  wrote:I’m using Docker for WO and like it.It controls the environment and tames our big industrial giant stuff and makes it quite manageable.On Apr 13, 2023, at 4:22 AM, Sébastien Rottiers via Webobjects-dev  wrote:Hi Oleksii,Very interesting blog post ! I’m very interested to move our classical WebObjects deployment on AWS ec2 with auto scaling, to your Cloud-native WebObjects deployment solution.Have you some new feedback about your solution in production after some months ?  Did you move to Kubernetes or still with Swarn ?Thanks a lot !Sébastien Le 14 août 2022 à 23:20, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev  a écrit :Good evening everyone,In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was migrated to the Cloud.To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo application You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.I have some more explanations in the post I made and some helpful docker images.Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions. best,Oleksii
 ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/sebro%40mac.comThis email sent to se...@mac.com ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jtayler%40oeinc.comThis email sent to jtay...@oeinc.com ___Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ginokris%40mac.comThis email sent to ginok...@mac.com ___
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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Jesse Tayler via Webobjects-dev]

I’m using Docker for WO and like it.

It controls the environment and tames our big industrial giant stuff and makes 
it quite manageable.


> On Apr 13, 2023, at 4:22 AM, Sébastien Rottiers via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Oleksii,
> 
> Very interesting blog post ! I’m very interested to move our classical 
> WebObjects deployment on AWS ec2 with auto scaling, to your Cloud-native 
> WebObjects deployment solution.
> Have you some new feedback about your solution in production after some 
> months ?  Did you move to Kubernetes or still with Swarn ?
> 
> Thanks a lot !
> 
> Sébastien 
> 
>> Le 14 août 2022 à 23:20, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev 
>>  a écrit :
>> 
>> Good evening everyone,
>> 
>> In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was migrated 
>> to the Cloud.
>> To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo application 
>>  
>> You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.
>> I have some more explanations in the post I made 
>> 
>>  and some helpful docker images .
>> 
>> Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions. 
>> 
>> best,
>> Oleksii
>> 
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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Sébastien Rottiers via Webobjects-dev]

Hi Oleksii,

Very interesting blog post ! I’m very interested to move our classical 
WebObjects deployment on AWS ec2 with auto scaling, to your Cloud-native 
WebObjects deployment solution.
Have you some new feedback about your solution in production after some months 
?  Did you move to Kubernetes or still with Swarn ?

Thanks a lot !

Sébastien 

> Le 14 août 2022 à 23:20, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev 
>  a écrit :
> 
> Good evening everyone,
> 
> In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was migrated 
> to the Cloud.
> To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo application 
>  
> You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.
> I have some more explanations in the post I made 
> 
>  and some helpful docker images .
> 
> Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions. 
> 
> best,
> Oleksii
> 
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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev]

Hi Aaron,

I have seen your email long time ago where you ask about Kubernetes, and
decided to write a post :)

Let me know if you have any questions

best,
Oleksii

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 3:38 AM Aaron Rosenzweig  wrote:

> Thank you Oleksii for taking the time to write up an excellent blog post.
> I skimmed it just now but I absolutely love how you crafted a story from
> the beginnings, of how we did deployments along with the why/how up to
> today with using Docker and why you did that.
>
> It sure would be nice to do it as you done, to get rid of wotaskd and let
> an orchestration layer handle it.
>
> Thanks again for sharing!
>
> On Aug 14, 2022, at 5:20 PM, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev <
> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:
>
> Good evening everyone,
>
> In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was
> migrated to the Cloud.
> To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo application
> 
> You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.
> I have some more explanations in the post I made
> 
>  and
> some helpful docker images .
>
> Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions.
>
> best,
> Oleksii
>
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>
>
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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev]

Hi Tim,

You are correct, it is not possible with proposed solution. It was one of
the point we had to communicate to customers. But we just made a proper
release calendar and being logged out wasn't the issue for users.

We could implement it, but it wasn't worth the time invested. I would
implement it from your CD side with hybrid of canary deployment.


Also I wouldn't recommend in all cases to use jetty, it might bring a lot
of headache, but I thought it is still worth mentioning. And as the first
step I would for sure recommend Cloud-native WebObjects deployment

Hope it helps


Best,
Oleksii

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 1:31 AM D Tim Cummings via Webobjects-dev <
webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:

> Hi Oleksii, I read your post and it was great. Removing wotaskd from a
> deployment is enticing. One thing I can do with wotaskd/womonitor
> deployments is upgrade the webobjects application to a new version without
> taking down the application for users who are currently logged in. They
> continue using their old instance until they log out and log back in, at
> which stage they get the new instance. I haven't been able to achieve this
> with tomcat or jetty. I am interested in your second last example which
> uses traefik but not jetty and wonder if this deployment scenario is
> possible.
>
> I tried using webojects and servlets many years ago and didn't enjoy the
> experience. The fact that I would be limited to jetty 9 (which is end of
> life since April 2022) is not encouraging me to try it again.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 15/8/22 07:20, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev wrote:
>
> Good evening everyone,
>
>
> In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was
> migrated to the Cloud.
>
> To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo application
> 
>
> You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.
>
> I have some more explanations in the post I made
> 
>  and
> some helpful docker images .
>
>
> Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions.
>
>
> best,
>
> Oleksii
>
>
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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev]

Hi Paul,

Yes, it is written with a little bit academy language, but it is my
experience from moving actually production application. In the past I
completely skipped security part, but in internet there are a lot of
information about docker images and docker hosts best security practices.

In production we had application which is still actively developed since
2000 by full time couple of developers. It were hosts with 100+ RAM and 30+
CPUs in total. With 10k+ daily users.

With normal deployment the biggest problem were monitoring, very manual
process of scaling, update and deploy. Very often java instances in our
case would not only crash, but also completely freeze with no reboot.
Overall maintenance was talking a lot of time and very error prone.

First, I made some cleaning up and moved application to Java 11. One of the
requirements back then was that we can use only Docker Swarm(in future we
moved to Kubernetes), so that is why I use it in the example. So as the
result first migration I made is Cloud-native WebObjects deployment on
docker swarm. Docker images also have some health-check to not have frozen
instances. Monitoring with cadvisor + node-exporter + Prometheus/Grafana
gives a lot of insights into system. Based on monitoring data some basic
auto-scaling. I would for sure recommend you on start to use Cloud-native
WebObjects deployment. We had no problems on our production and immediately
average response time decreased 30% due to auto-scaling and no frozen
instances (50+ containers). Also I can recommend to use portainer for
docker swarm.


Moving to jetty was way more difficult with a lot of hacks around, but not
critical ones. We enabled some tracers and profilers to get more insights
into application.

As the result, I have moved not the smallest application to docker (with no
apache plugin, womonitor and wotaskd) and my life got way easier, efficient
and better performing.

Hope it will be useful and don't hesitate to ask more.

best,
Oleksii



On Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 1:17 AM Paul Hoadley  wrote:

> Hi Oleksii,
>
> On 15 Aug 2022, at 06:50, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev <
> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:
>
> In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was
> migrated to the Cloud.
> To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo application
> 
> You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.
> I have some more explanations in the post I made
> 
>  and
> some helpful docker images .
>
> Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions.
>
>
> That was a great article, super-interesting. Presumably it wasn't just an
> academic exercise—are you using any of these approaches in production? Can
> you tell us any more about it?
>
>
> --
> Paul Hoadley
> https://logicsquad.net/
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/
>
>
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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Ramsey Gurley via Webobjects-dev]

Hi Oleksii,

Great work and nice writeup. Since you're doing a war deployment in container, 
you may want to look at the maven jib plugin. Jib can build an OCI formatted 
tarball without docker installed at all on the machine. Furthermore, it can 
layer the image to minimize data transfers when deploying them as they can be 
rather large.

I never got war packaging to work so I didn't explore it further, but it seems 
ideal for what you're doing.

Ramsey

From: Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev 
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2022 2:20 PM
To: webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com 
Subject: WebObjects Docker Deployment


Good evening everyone,


In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was migrated to 
the Cloud.

To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo 
application

You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.

I have some more explanations in the post I 
made
 and some helpful docker 
images.


Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions.


best,

Oleksii


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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[D Tim Cummings via Webobjects-dev]

Hi Oleksii, I read your post and it was great. Removing wotaskd from a 
deployment is enticing. One thing I can do with wotaskd/womonitor 
deployments is upgrade the webobjects application to a new version 
without taking down the application for users who are currently logged 
in. They continue using their old instance until they log out and log 
back in, at which stage they get the new instance. I haven't been able 
to achieve this with tomcat or jetty. I am interested in your second 
last example which uses traefik but not jetty and wonder if this 
deployment scenario is possible.


I tried using webojects and servlets many years ago and didn't enjoy the 
experience. The fact that I would be limited to jetty 9 (which is end of 
life since April 2022) is not encouraging me to try it again.


Tim


On 15/8/22 07:20, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev wrote:


Good evening everyone,


In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was 
migrated to the Cloud.


To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo 
application 


You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.

I have some more explanations in the post I made 
 and 
some helpful docker images .



Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions.


best,

Oleksii



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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Paul Hoadley via Webobjects-dev]

Hi Oleksii,

On 15 Aug 2022, at 06:50, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev 
 wrote:

> In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was migrated 
> to the Cloud.
> To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo application 
>  
> You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.
> I have some more explanations in the post I made 
> 
>  and some helpful docker images .
> 
> Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions. 

That was a great article, super-interesting. Presumably it wasn't just an 
academic exercise—are you using any of these approaches in production? Can you 
tell us any more about it?


-- 
Paul Hoadley
https://logicsquad.net/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/

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Re: WebObjects Docker Deployment

[Aaron Rosenzweig via Webobjects-dev]

Thank you Oleksii for taking the time to write up an excellent blog post. I 
skimmed it just now but I absolutely love how you crafted a story from the 
beginnings, of how we did deployments along with the why/how up to today with 
using Docker and why you did that. 

It sure would be nice to do it as you done, to get rid of wotaskd and let an 
orchestration layer handle it. 

Thanks again for sharing!

> On Aug 14, 2022, at 5:20 PM, Oleksii Serhiienko via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> Good evening everyone,
> 
> In the past, I was working with a WebObjects application which was migrated 
> to the Cloud.
> To share more findings and experience, I have created a demo application 
>  
> You should be able to run with docker-compose and docker swarm.
> I have some more explanations in the post I made 
> 
>  and some helpful docker images .
> 
> Hope, my experience will be helpful and feel free to ask some questions. 
> 
> best,
> Oleksii
> 
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