Hi,
I am off to Los Angeles tomorrow for a business trip. While I am there I'd
like to try and check out some local record shops if time allows.
Does anyone have any recommendations?
I am going to be spending most of my time in El Segundo, near LAX. Anything
that isn't too much of a trek, or whi
sorry, not sure if this got through first time, v late i know
-Original Message-
From: Williams, Howard
Sent: 06 December 2000 14:00
To: 'darw_n'; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [313] err...
the 'point' is that mahler expresses himself one way, hawtin (for e
imitating Bobby DeNiro from Analyze Me:
"Youyouyou're good!!!"
=)
g l y p h
In a message dated 12/7/00 10:16:34 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>darw_n and mee-thod wrote:
>
>> > the techno movement arose from the youth of detroit seeking to locate
>> > themselves in a future th
;
Date: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
>As for "the music" I think that darw_n is correct. Techno and House are
>very different from hip-hop for example, in that I really don't think it
>is possible for these artforms to be co-opted. I haven
i just wish these guys would stop blowing up my mailbox... hehe
take care,
Mike
np: Heiko Laux-Live at Fuse Pt. 1
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [313] err... darw_n's brain is too big
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:31:59 EST
In a message dated
PROTECTED] (Deliverator)
To: "313" <313@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: [313] err...
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:56:16 -0500
Fred- "Are you buying it?"
I got in a rather lengthy discussion over a few beers this past weekend on
this topic. Admittedly, I have more than just
Jonny McIntosh wrote:
> I reckon your wrong, too. And the above, I think, is the problem. The "is"
> is just what you get given to you, e.g. Beethoven's 9th is, even in essence,
> Beethoven's entire 9th. What you try and do is distill it into something
> "purer" and more "minimal". The terminology
mee mused:
> > > the techno movement arose from the youth of detroit seeking to locate
> > > themselves in a future that was different from the urban decay of the
> > > present.
otto tapped:
> Techno was born because there were people that were *not* apathic,
> because there were people that hear
Fred- "Are you buying it?"
I got in a rather lengthy discussion over a few beers this past weekend on
this topic. Admittedly, I have more than just a slight buzz going at the
time but..After about an hour or so discussing the ford focus commerical
I came to the following conclusion:
1.)Hoora
Darwin said:
> >Techno has no single political, social, economic banner in which all
stand
> >united, none at all.
Someone else replied:
> What artistic, social or political movement ever has? None.
Darwin said:
fine rebuttal, but there *was* a general underlying common drive. Every
you
-Original Message-
From: Kent williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Otto Koppius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org <313@hyperreal.org>
Date: Thursday, December 07, 2000 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
>On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Otto Koppius wrote:
>>
darw_n wrote:
> Techno doesn't have a *defined* message, something that most (if not all)
> past "movements" had...
You did make the case for punk, but even so I can't really agree with
this, although that may be because the terms message and movements are
too vague in this context. For instance
Talking with darw_n makes my brain hurt a wee bit, but here goes...
> See, I just can't let something be like that, I want, no need, to know
what
> that "is" is...
I reckon your wrong, too. And the above, I think, is the problem. The "is"
is just what you get given to you, e.g. Beethoven's 9th is
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Otto Koppius wrote:
> darw_n and mee-thod wrote:
>
> > > the techno movement arose from the youth of detroit seeking to locate
> > > themselves in a future that was different from the urban decay of the
> > > present.
>
> *cue mental image of Belleville*
>
> LOL!
>
Yeah, m
> Which contradicts your theory of the techno movement having no unifying
> principles So which one is it?
>
Yes your right, I just confused my whole statement, lemme clarify that...
Techno doesn't have a *defined* message, something that most (if not all)
past "movements" had...
Instead,
"Music: An art that is perfectly intelligible and perfectly inexplicable."
(Samuel Beckett)
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Otto Koppius wrote:
> > It is what it is.
darw_n and mee-thod wrote:
> > the techno movement arose from the youth of detroit seeking to locate
> > themselves in a future that was different from the urban decay of the
> > present.
*cue mental image of Belleville*
LOL!
> and indeed, this is the same sentiment that has permeated all of
At least with politics, you get PAID to talk just to hear the sound of your
own voice.
--On Thursday, December 07, 2000 9:30 AM -0800 darw_n
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Go into politics instead of boring us with pointless discussions about
> techno, geeez it's just music!!!
>
mmm h, r
> Go into politics instead of boring us with pointless discussions about
> techno, geeez it's just music!!!
>
mmm h, riggght...
darw_n
"create, demonstrate, toneshift..."
http://www.mp3.com/stations/clevelandunderground
http://www.mp3.com/darw_n
http://www.sphere
--- darw_n <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >
> > On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 03:25:45PM -0800, darw_n
> wrote:
> > > since I have yet to hear a real stance from
> techno
> >
> > UR?
> >
>
>
>
> sure, but I can point to many many groups within the
> techno scene who have
> entirely polar opposite vi
> darwin's ancestor in a primordial soup bid suggested:
> > could go on and on. So invite someone to say, the techno movement has
> > ___. fill in the blank.
>
> the techno movement arose from the youth of detroit seeking to locate
> themselves in a future that was different from the urban de
--- darw_n <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > how is it
possible to ruin *real* techno??
>
> what would be ruined?
When Basement Jaxx were high up in the charts and I
was telling ppl I was spinning house... Ppl expected
cheesiness of that variety. This is how techno could
be ruined, wannabes that make
Go into politics instead of boring us with pointless discussions about
techno, geeez it's just music!!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> No, I am not saticfied with that, it would imply that we are
> pretty boring
> and lazy. No, there is causation for everything, things just
> don't happen
> for the hel
darwin's ancestor in a primordial soup bid suggested:
> could go on and on. So invite someone to say, the techno movement has
> ___. fill in the blank.
the techno movement arose from the youth of detroit seeking to locate
themselves in a future that was different from the urban decay of the
--- Steven White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What we know and what they miss is so simple: all
> that has to happen is for people
> to hear the music with an open mind.
Word.
-Dave-
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Mi
s,
unless they start selling the Ford Focus DEMF Edition :).
Ryan Heard
-Original Message-
From: FRED MCMURRY [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 1:57 AM
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [313] err...
The only award I think most techno artists would accept would be o
In a message dated 12/6/00 4:35:14 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>i believe the common goal of techno is to create music that hasn't been
>heard before.
>i've heard plenty of artists say the same thing most notably juan atkins
>and
>jeff mills.
>is this not enough of a unifying definition and a c
Re:
FORD COULD CARE LESS ABOUT TECHNO! THEY JUST WANT TO SELL CARS! that's the
bottom line.
AMEN BROTHER! Please believe that everyone! Don't think that they are
friendly to techno music anymore than they are friendly to country&western
New Age music. What they are most friendly to is a guy n
I think that was a Honda comercial that had the "raver types"
but anyone breathing today would have to be either blind and deaf, a media
hermit, or clueless to have not been exposed to images of "ravers" or
electronic dance music of one genre or another being used in whatever media
format. So i
On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Otto Koppius wrote:
> I think one big assumption that's being made throughout this discussion
> is that Ford decided who to nominate. That decision is made by the AMA
> organisation, not the sponsors. The AMA most likely decides the nominees
> based on sales and publicity etc.
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 07:17:28PM -0600, Chris Ege wrote:
> > What about "rock" then? Do Fugazi, The Beatles and Manowar share an
> > agenda?
>
> !bigup citing manowar in a 313 argument
Of course you know that was done specifically for you. :)
--
:: atomly ::
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PRO
>
> What about "rock" then? Do Fugazi, The Beatles and Manowar share an
> agenda?
>
Bravo!!! That is a great rebuttal!!! The motive for rock-n-roll as we see
it today was based on both economic and labor issues in America. As some of
the creators of rock, they were almost children of the go
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 04:51:21PM -0800, darw_n wrote:
> Techno has no single political, social, economic banner in which all stand
> united, none at all. The point I was making specifically was that techno is
> a ambiguous movement...
>
> This is very very critical BTW in the realm of social his
>
> i believe the common goal of techno is to create music that hasn't been
> heard before.
> i've heard plenty of artists say the same thing most notably juan atkins
and
> jeff mills.
> is this not enough of a unifying definition and a common goal for ya? : )
>
No, I am not saticfied with that,
> Monet painted a picture of a pond with paint. I think that
> "distilling" that to either just paint or just a pond misses what makes
that
> artwork special.
Indeed, and I am not suggesting that you can distill something to the point
before it was even created. If you could, than you could "di
- Original Message -
From: darw_n <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Hugh G. Blaze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<313@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
>> > >Techno has no single political, social,
the medium is
important. Monet painted a picture of a pond with paint. I think that
"distilling" that to either just paint or just a pond misses what makes that
artwork special.
Just a thought.
From: "darw_n" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Williams, Howard"
> >Techno has no single political, social, economic banner in which all
stand
> >united, none at all.
>
> What artistic, social or political movement ever has? None.
fine rebuttal, but there *was* a general underlying common drive. Every
youth music movement has had a general drive, be it war or
Atomly quipped:
> Because Communists exist and Fascists exist and are diametrically
> opposed, politics don't exist?
>
Dawrw_n replied:
no, that's not what I said at all. Those two opposing political forces do
NOT represent a single group.
Let me try to re-explain...
Techno has no single
> Because Communists exist and Fascists exist and are diametrically
> opposed, politics don't exist?
>
no, that's not what I said at all. Those two opposing political forces do
NOT represent a single group.
Let me try to re-explain...
Techno has no single political, social, economic banner in
..Yawn...zzz
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at
http://home.netscape.com/webmail
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 04:00:13PM -0800, darw_n wrote:
> sure, but I can point to many many groups within the techno scene who have
> entirely polar opposite views, UR's is simply one position in a near
> infinite amount of stances, varying from one extreme to another. Because of
> this highly fa
> On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 03:25:45PM -0800, darw_n wrote:
> > since I have yet to hear a real stance from techno
>
> UR?
>
sure, but I can point to many many groups within the techno scene who have
entirely polar opposite views, UR's is simply one position in a near
infinite amount of stanc
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 03:25:45PM -0800, darw_n wrote:
> since I have yet to hear a real stance from techno
UR?
--
:: atomly ::
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly
> > techno is generally [...] politically positionless
>
> Since when?
since I have yet to hear a real stance from techno
what great movement do we represent?
darw_n
"create, demonstrate, toneshift..."
http://www.mp3.com/stations/clevelandunderground
http://www.mp3.com/darw_n
http://www.
Lester Kenyatta Spence wrote:
> As for "the music" I think that darw_n is correct. Techno and House are
> very different from hip-hop for example, in that I really don't think it
> is possible for these artforms to be co-opted.
Otto said:
Don't count on it. For the US, that may be (sti
From: Sam Karmel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Maybe we should let our voices be heard!!!
I agree...
Instead of whining and complaining about what should or shouldn't be
"techno" and of what this _may_ do to our music, we should respectfully send
a couple thousand e-mails to abc, and let them
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 08:24:53PM -0800, darw_n wrote:
> techno is generally [...] politically positionless
Since when?
--
:: atomly ::
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly
What about letting the four DUTCHMEN of the Apocalypse present it? Now that
would be fun!
Oh god!!! I think the presenters of this award should be the four
horseman of the apocalypse!
Hugh G. Blaze wrote:
>
> I'm in rather dire need of the sage wisdom of this list and its
> members on thi
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, atomly wrote:
[...]
> I'd say the problem with the mainstream media picking up subgenres is
> that they burn fast and die quickly... If techno (true, underground,
> techno) were to get big tomorrow, a lot of people that we know would
> probably become superstars overnight and
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From:Topping, Micah [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent:Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:57 AM
> > To:313@hyperreal.org
> > Subject:RE: [313] err...
> >
> > > And with Ford's current ad c
> reducing other music to a few notes, and repeating makes
> techno...which
> makes it a meta-creation from those notes, like distilling down to the
> essence(notes)
> then building back up from there.
no, you make techno by switching on your drumcomputer and sampler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ford is just a multinational with billions dolars of proffits and if anybody
on this list really think Ford is interested in techno at all or want to
lift techno to a higher lever then they are extremly ignorant. Some smart
guy down at Ford just noticed how populair the DEMF was, they not here to
m
ut
as much to do with techno as the AMA has to do with music :)
> -Original Message-
> From: Topping, Micah [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:57 AM
> To: 313@hyperreal.org
> Subject: RE: [313] err...
>
> > And with Ford&#x
> And with Ford's current ad campaign theme, it's no surprise
> either that
> they decide to sponsor such an award, even though they know
> it's not the
> real techno. In any case, it's the closest thing at the AMA they have
> for reaching the intended target audience. Assuming they show the ad
>
> consider this:
>
> If you take an elaborate Opera, you can theoretically distill
> it, all while
> keeping its general feel, down to techno. Ambient may or may
> not work, it
> depends on your approach. But you could distill the Opera down to one
> crucial segment (which probably was the mus
Oh god!!! I think the presenters of this award should be the four
horseman of the apocalypse!
Hugh G. Blaze wrote:
I'm in rather dire need of the sage wisdom of this list and its
members on this issue for a project that I'm working on.
Is this good or bad for our music and culture?
When
ow about Mahler) _did_ have
entire pieces in his head before writing them down. but, there aren't a lot
of mozart's around :)
h
-Original Message-
From: darw_n [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 06 December 2000 16:36
To: Williams, Howard; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [313] err...
&
> minimal techno is an
> approach/attempt at expression, as is mahler's 5th: clearly mahler's works
> are far more dense, but to suggest that they could be 'distilled' into
> something more universal seems to miss the point.
and what is the "point"?
I am not being retaliatory here, but I am cu
Yep, same here in Belgium. Rolando getting tons of airplay on the national
radio : Studio Brussel. Unfortunately way too late (as always), but still a
kick up the *ss for a lot of people I guess. And guess what: one of the dj's
that plays quite often at Studio Brussel also plays from time to time
> *BUT*, in the process of the bagging of house, occasionally the real
> thing makes it to the frontline. Wamdue Kids, Paul Johnson,
> Harry 'Choo
> Choo' Romero and several other Subliminal artists, Masters At
> Work, St.
> Germain, the list goes on. And the good thing about it is, this is
> ha
The wise, well traveled Dutchman, Otto, speaks...
=)
G l y p h
In a message dated 12/6/00 4:35:40 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>I think one big assumption that's being made throughout this discussion
>is that Ford decided who to nominate. That decision is made by the AMA
>organisation, not t
Lester Kenyatta Spence wrote:
> As for "the music" I think that darw_n is correct. Techno and House are
> very different from hip-hop for example, in that I really don't think it
> is possible for these artforms to be co-opted.
Don't count on it. For the US, that may be (still) true. In Europ
darw_n wrote :
"so it could be said that techno is the universal music in that all
music can
be distilled down to techno..."
heh heh
i really can't agree with this statement, though it's a nice thought! i
don't see pieces of music as existing on some scale of complexity/design
which can
atomly wrote:
>
> http://abc.go.com/primetime/ama/techno_home.html
I think one big assumption that's being made throughout this discussion
is that Ford decided who to nominate. That decision is made by the AMA
organisation, not the sponsors. The AMA most likely decides the nominees
based on sales
And you expected what from Disney?
-Original Message-
From: atomly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 3:31 PM
To: 313@hyperreal.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [313] err...
http://abc.go.com/primetime/ama/techno_home.html
--
:: atomly
>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 313@hyperreal.org <313@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
>
>I'm in rather dire need of the sage wisdom of this list and its members
on
>this issue for a project that I'm working on
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 07:08:59PM -0500, Hugh G. Blaze wrote:
> When I say "this" I mean the fact that the mainstream press, the marketing
> and advertising industries and America in general still remains clueless as
> to who the artists are that we are interested in, the music that we actually
one." - Yo La Tengo
-Original Message-
From: Carissa Tintinalli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 313@hyperreal.org
<313@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
>Beat me to it Atomly :)
>
>I
CTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
313@hyperreal.org <313@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err... (take 2)
>I guess I should be a little bit more specific in terms o
> techno and house are also faceless.
> d
That can change though, and is changing. It in fact can become vastly
"face-full" and yet retain its essence...
add definition however, and you have something else, you now have a
message...
notice I am doing my damndest to not boost the toneshift the
> Yes, it certainly is true that techno doesn't have verses and choruses but
> a lot of techno certainly does follow the four-bar or eight-bar or
> sixteen-bar musical form that pop/rock/hip-hop follow. You can even point
> out bridges in some techno tracks. But I don't think this is bad per se.
id rather abc and the mainstream think fatboy slim was an important part of
techno this yr. im happy with it being "underground." and yes, it still is
underground. arent lists like this whats its all about? eff abc, eff em all.
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, darw_n wrote:
> simple, techno is generally wordless and politically positionless, with none
> of the gaudy projective layers of pop, rap or whatever, like chorus and
> verse...
I don't think I can agree with what you've said here.
Yes, it certainly is true that techno does
techno and house are also faceless.
d
From: "darw_n" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lester Kenyatta Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: "Hugh G. Blaze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <313@hyperreal.org&g
This makes me so bleepin' mad!!! I say we should e-mail ABC our thoughts. I
just did. You can too at: http://abc.go.com/abc/help/contact.html
r.
UhOhUhohh... UhOhUhohhh... UhOhUhohhh...
The Damage is Done." - Yo La Tengo
-Original Message-
From: Hugh G. Blaze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 313@hyperreal.org <313@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tu
oodbye As You Walk Out the Door.
UhOhUhohh... UhOhUhohhh... UhOhUhohhh...
The Damage is Done." - Yo La Tengo
-Original Message-
From: Carissa Tintinalli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 313@hyperreal.org
<313@hyperreal.org>
Date: Tuesday, December
In a message dated 12/5/00 7:19:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>but I just know that we won't see Sony
>perverting the artform. It is what it isand I don't think it can be
>changed except by us.
>
Ok, sorry, I have to break it down to this...AMERICA SUCKS.
Ahem..(for those all so p
In a message dated 12/5/00 6:12:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>When I say "this" I mean the fact that the mainstream press, the marketing
>
>and advertising industries and America in general still remains clueless
>as
>to who the artists are that we are interested in, the music that we actual
>Techno and House are
> very different from hip-hop for example, in that I really don't think it
> is possible for these artforms to be co-opted. I haven't come up with
> anything more than a vague theory as to WHY (if anyone has I'd be
> interested in seeing it)..
simple, techno is generally wo
I would guess, not much. As Nader joked, "... however I _do_ think that
Gore lost _me_ the election." The true techno artists might get a little
more money if it were not for the likes of these "electronica" artists.
But, if it were not for them, would there be a all new techno catagory
brought
Perhaps a better question might bedoes this ruin the ability of
PERFORMERS to accumulate the fruits of their labor. Does Moby's presence
on the SciFi channel proclaiming "I am SciFi" in a commercial affect the
ability of May, Atkins, Craig, and others to put their music out
there...and to be c
hi
What i want to know is who nominates these "techno"
artists, is it sale based?
"The beat of a new generation. The music of the new
millennium.
Let your voice be heard!
Vote in the first-ever Techno category, brought to you
by Ford Focus."
As far as i can see all these bands r bassicly
electron
esday, December 05, 2000 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
>
> I'm in rather dire need of the sage wisdom of this list and its members on
> this issue for a project that I'm working on.
>
> Is this good or bad for our music and culture?
>
> When I say "this"
I'm in rather dire need of the sage wisdom of this list and its members on
this issue for a project that I'm working on.
Is this good or bad for our music and culture?
When I say "this" I mean the fact that the mainstream press, the marketing
and advertising industries and America in general
Beat me to it Atomly :)
Is it just me, or is this every shade of wrong?
From: atomly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [313] err...
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:31:00 -0600
http://abc.go.com/primetime/ama/techno_home.html
--
::
http://abc.go.com/primetime/ama/techno_home.html
--
:: atomly ::
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly
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