ROTECTED]>
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 3:18:43 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: C-8 part 21 year later
Perhaps the ESP could be repurposed into being an urban paintball game, with a
special
area similar to "Shoot the Geek" in Pt. Pleasant, but in the
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Didn't the ESP shut down this month last year?
> Has anybody heard any updates about it fate, or plans to restart building?
> It's starting to be a real slap in the cities face that there's another
> derelict structure
Perhaps the ESP could be repurposed into being an urban paintball game, with a
special
area similar to "Shoot the Geek" in Pt. Pleasant, but in the AP version, the
geek could be
wearing a Dean Geibel mask.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In A
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "cwpvt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It's been a year, can't the City force them to remove what is there
> if they are not going to use it? Or hire someone to remove it and
> bill the owner. I would assume that if they can arrest someone for a
> porch, they
The problem is there might be 60 million of construction costs
already spent sitting there. Why scrap that? If anything, that
could lure a new builder in who doesn't have to re-create what is
there but can build on top.
This is clearly delayed but not unworkable.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoog
It's been a year, can't the City force them to remove what is there
if they are not going to use it? Or hire someone to remove it and
bill the owner. I would assume that if they can arrest someone for a
porch, they can have the owner (who is still in business) fined until
it's gone. The same
The sad fact is that it is virtually impossible to get a loan to do
almost anything at the current time for even the most creditworthy
of borrowers.
Real Estate is on the lower end of the health spectrum at the moment.
I have no specific knowledge here but my guess is that this project
is goin
"I think the guy likes to hear himself talk or in this case read what he typed." i think you all do.
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
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Asbury
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, charlie leonard
> wrote:
> >
> >
C-8 was going to be 14 and 10
i havn't talked, or read anything on this board in a few months.
> but i think ill try and make it back. did some
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Skip Bernstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> When you've not drunk in days a puddle of muddy water may tempt, when
> you haven't eaten for a week an old shoe might cause you to drool,
and
> when you've lived in a once great city, whose delights have been left
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, charlie leonard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> i havn't talked, or read anything on this board in a few months.
but i think ill try and make it back. did something change with the
esparenza's plan? twice as tall?? im pretty sure the c8 standing now,
is a
"After all, C8 represents the fastest of the once proclaimed "fasttrack" projects, and after 4 years of Larry's do nothing agenda, itsremoval merely signifies "a new day" wherein something twice as tallwill supposedly thrill us in the midst of the despair and disrepair ofa very fishy waterfront;
When you've not drunk in days a puddle of muddy water may tempt, when
you haven't eaten for a week an old shoe might cause you to drool, and
when you've lived in a once great city, whose delights have been left
to rack and ruin for 30 years, the demolition of a 12 story eyesore
could cause you to t
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" wrote:
> >
> >
OK I got it.
It was the deal and the courts upheld it.
> >
>
> What was the deal? The issue of whether C-8 can be rebuilt has not
> been brought before the
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It was the deal and the courts upheld it.
>
What was the deal? The issue of whether C-8 can be rebuilt has not
been brought before the court.Neither has the issue of which is the
proper WRP - June 5, 2002 or March 15, 2002
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" wrote:
> >
> >
It was the deal and the courts upheld it.
If you think you can be Aaron in Court go for it.
> >
> >
>
> Sometimes it doesn't matter if you win; courts makewron
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>If you think you can be Aaron in Court go for it.
>
>
Sometimes it doesn't matter if you win; courts makewrong decisioms
al the time. What matters is that you have your day in court and
show that officials can't run a ci
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Excerpts from APP with my comments
>
>
atIf you think you can be Aaron in Court go for it.
"With help from about 90 pounds of explosives, the 130-foot-tall, 60-
> foot-wide structure on Kingsley Street between Third
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "apoojo" wrote:
> >
> >
> > sounds like this is going to the courts on your behalf? i also
> care
> >
> >
> It's hard to pound your chest when you have man breasts. That being
> said,
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> I think the guy likes to hear himself talk or in this case read what
he typed.
Actually both Allan, but irrelevant as to my raison de etre.
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Your comments below sound a little sour. I haven't heard anyone
> else talk this way about the event, no matter how they feel about
> this redevelopment.
> Since the steel was coming down no matter what, whether the
"Your comments below sound a little sour. I haven't heard anyone else
talk this way about the event, no matter how they feel about this
redevelopment. This is a chance for some real unity in the City. One
big party weekend centered around something we all agree on - that
ugly thing will no longe
I think the guy likes to hear himself talk or in this case read what he typed.apoojo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> Excerpts from APP with my comments> > > "It's over. It's finally over, Councilman James Bruno said > Wednes
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "apoojo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> sounds like this is going to the courts on your behalf? i also
care
> about the truth, met you twice at council meetings, i know you are
> intelligent,and hopefully sincere. please state your intended
> litigation, if
Dan there is a very fun atmosphere in AP this week in anticipation
of this. It's like everyone is gearing up for a big party.
People are feeling some sort of release in the symbolism, and it
feels great. I know it doesn't really mean anything, but somethimes
that's what symbolism is about.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Excerpts from APP with my comments
>
>
> "It's over. It's finally over, Councilman James Bruno said
> Wednesday."
>
> As Yogi said Jimbo, it ain't over till its over.
>
> Yes it is, but are the decaying hulks now on
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> What cause of action would your lawsuit plead
Many things I assume including following a plan that is not valid
(March), violating the legally valid plan (June), violating public
trust, etc.
, and what relief wou
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have given an
> ultimatium to the City to come clean and fire Aaron. If not, lawsuit
> and FBI time. Enough is enough.
What cause of action would your lawsuit plead, and what relief would
it seek?
What "crime" woul
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> John Clark would have made Richard Nixon proud.
> The developer's lawyer did the talking for the consultant.
>
> New Councilman James Keady thinks Mr. Aarron, the city's
redevelopment
> attorney should reign.
> Do you remember when
"Based upon the pro forma I have seen, the 7% of sales exceeds $11
million and the infrastructure is $4.48 million. All in all its around
$33 million for land to build 224 units. Do the math. something like
$147,000 per unit of land value. That's what gets me about Asbury
Partners, the Council and
o be an outside
investigation into this whole mess.
- Original Message -
From: "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 6:58 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: C-8 Demolition Question, today's paper
> Dan I urge you to rethink your position of accep
Dan I urge you to rethink your position of accepting the City's story
that "the wrong plan was submitted"
As I wrote earlier, There is no evidence to that effect, to the
contrary the preponderence of the evidence is that the correct plan was
submitted and that this is a flim-flam being perpetra
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
>
> This article gives a very simple version of what happened at that
meeting.
>
> Dan Sciannameo did a great job explaining why the June 5, 2002
Plan should
> be followed.
> At the meeting Councilmen Johnson, Keady, and Lof
"The Casino is the ugliest building ever constructed."
I get that you think or believe it behooves you to say that, so this
should be no challenge, name your top 10 recently constructed
buildings. It would be nice if they were local, but that's probably
unfair, give it your best shot.
--- In
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> The Casino is the ugliest building ever constructed. Warren &
Wetmore,
> despite other successes, clearly drew it over a liquid lunch.
>
Different strokes for different folks.
Yahoo! Gro
The Casino is the ugliest building ever constructed. Warren & Wetmore,
despite other successes, clearly drew it over a liquid lunch.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" >
>
> > That's what you get when your
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" >
> That's what you get when your planning starts being driven by
> Nostalgia. Hey, why have one empty, barely used convention center
> on the boardwalk when we can have two empty, barely used convention
> centers on the boardwalk!
>
Nostalgi
"I urged him to knock down the Casino and build something spectacular
at the site."
What you miss is his intention to knockdown the ice rink, that's where
the Fishy Mall is to be located and will be but part of his legacy,
undoubtedly "something extraordinary", hideously so, and it and
crumbling C
No Skip, I've actually talked to Larry about just this subject. I
urged him to knock down the Casino and build something spectacular
at the site. I tried to convince him that the site could be his
family's lagacy; an opportunity to have something extraordinary
associated with his efforts here
`To me, he wants it to fall into the ocean so he can say "don't blame
me, it was an act of God that caused the damage."'
Gary you're a little closer to the mark; I suspect the BlindBishop's
having a bit of fun with us, he is after all The Fish's stalking horse.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
You know I long said that Larry's some kind of guy. Imagine that The
Fish and me agreeing on something.
"Now if it seems absurd when I do it to you, I assure you it is just
as absurd when you do it to me." Oh contraire, what's good for the
BlindBishop's good for the Skipster, but I've gotta tell
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do you really believe he wants to rebuild the Casino? If so, why
wouldn't
> you try doing something to protect it from further decline after
these past
> 5 years or so?
>
> To me, he wants it to fall into the ocean so he can
On 9/20/05 4:17 PM, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Skip,
>
> Larry agrees with you on re-building the Casino. He is against my
> idea of knocking it down and putting something better there.
>
Do you really believe he wants to rebuild the Casino? If so, why wouldn't
you try doin
Skip,
Larry agrees with you on re-building the Casino. He is against my
idea of knocking it down and putting something better there.
So, since you and Larry agree on something, what should I do, accuse
you of being in his pocket? Looking for something from him? Being
a shill for him? Agreei
"
the Casino. If it is in such disrepair that there exists less of it
than more of it, you aren't saving it anyway; you're just rebuilding
something new that follows the old form. If you are rebuilding new
anyway, why stay cuffed by the dead-hand control of our predecessors?
We can use the oppor
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Whoa! I understand a lot more than the average (insert name) around
> here. Let's not get testy. :-)
That's the problem with cyberspace, unless you make use of symbols and
caps, etc. you cannot convey your demeanor. Me
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Why do you have trouble understanding this?
Whoa! I understand a lot more than the average (insert name) around
here. Let's not get testy. :-)
>... I know the plan accounts
> for both, but if demolished it can't be bu
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> You, and others, keep refering to the potential need for an
amendment
> to the plan. That exactly are you thinking would be the deviation?
> The plan accounts for both options, build out or build new.
Neither
> would
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>... The original issue is
> the rumour that C-8 may be torn down. It is clear that if that is
> so it cannot be built to its exisitng bulk. That would likely
> result in a request for an amendment to the plan.
You, and oth
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> This is the point I've made in my column about the Palace and the
> Casino. If it is in such disrepair that there exists less of it than
> more of it, you aren't saving it anyway; you're just rebuilding
> something
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, I assume there is a threshold when partial dismantling becomes
> total demolition. I see it in NYC and is the difference in getting a
> New Building permit versus an Alteration.
Dan,
This is the point I've made in
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> - The reversion to the 'new' plan is in the event that the entire
> building can not be rehabilitated.
> - The approvals are within the envelope of the plan except that 12
> foot extensions may be build on the north and
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
... The reference to
> Block 161 was in the land use section. Pretty confusing, but not
> surprising considering this city. In any event, I assume the
> Planning Board approved the 224 units assuming the structure
> stays
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Dan, you've misinterpreted the chart on that page, it is not a
> controlling part of the plan, it is only an example of how the
> project might be built out.
>
> The height controls are elsewhere in the document. The C-
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have uploaded another page from the plan that shows if C-
> 8 (Block 176) is demolished, then it can only be built to the
height
> limits specified for Block 161, which are 2 and 4 stories.
... (calculation of units, etc.
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