Archimago wrote:
> Yup. That's my belief as well...
>
> It's basically a 1-port hub with better electronics, less noise, and
> better/cleaner power supply. So long as the USB port provides data
> errorlessly and adequately to the Regen, it should be fine.
>
> If the Regen works well to clean th
Mnyb wrote:
> So some DAC's makes every input sound the same seems like problem solved
> to me ?
Yes problem would be solved if those DACs make every input shine, then
job is done. But if instead they reduce every input to a mediocre level,
for example, then it's not problem solved, is it? I'm no
rgro wrote:
> Forgive me if I don't understand what the REGEN does, but as far as I do
> understand, differences in the USB ports may not matter as the REGEN
> takes the USB signal, does some kind or other type of processing and
> then regenerates a brand new, cleaned up signal of its own making
Archimago wrote:
> Yup. That's my belief as well...
>
> It's basically a 1-port hub with better electronics, less noise, and
> better/cleaner power supply. So long as the USB port provides data
> errorlessly and adequately to the Regen, it should be fine.
>
> If the Regen works well to clean th
rgro wrote:
> Forgive me if I don't understand what the REGEN does, but as far as I do
> understand, differences in the USB ports may not matter as the REGEN
> takes the USB signal, does some kind or other type of processing and
> then regenerates a brand new, cleaned up signal of its own making
So some DAC's makes every input sound the same seems like problem solved
to me ?
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Greg Erskine wrote:
> Hi Archimago,
>
> Are all USB ports on all PCs identical?
>
> Up to the invention of the REGEN I would have said yes.
>
> Now we have to assume that all internal hubs found in computers,
> keyboards, monitors can have an effect on the USB when connected to
> audio USB dev
Archimago wrote:
> Yeah, I can certainly let me friends each try it out for a few days and
> develop some experience, make notes, and settle on specific passages to
> listen to before the blind-test-day! Of course, they will be using their
> own DACs first. This will also allow comments about per
Archimago wrote:
> Okay. Can try my TEAC UD-501. Easily bring it over to my friend's place.
>
> Yeah, I can certainly let me friends each try it out for a few days and
> develop some experience, make notes, and settle on specific passages to
> listen to before the blind-test-day! Of course, they
jkeny wrote:
> Just looking at the PSaudio Perfectwave DAC & I don't think this will be
> suitable as a DAC - you can try it but it has digital lens technology -
> "The Digital Lens takes any digital audio signal and regenerates a new
> and jitter free version to listen to." ::This, I suspect, is
Wombat wrote:
> I really like the idea to ship one to Archimago but i don't think he
> needs a lesson in daydreaming.
Give it up, Wombat!!
jkeny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35192
View this th
I really like the idea to ship one to Archimago but i don't think he
needs a lesson in daydreaming.
Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA
monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers
Wombat'
atrocity wrote:
> One thing that fascinates me about some audience recordings is that they
> may not be all that great in a standard objective sense but what they
> lack in technical quality they make up for in ambience..
Agree!
*Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom
Any devices which have system-wide audible effects are difficult to
blind test.
These are not the same audible difference as the Regen produces but it's
educational looking at the descriptions in the Gearslutz thread I linked
to earlier. This is an example of what's needed to do useful blind
test
Archimago wrote:
> Of course.
>
>
> Of course we will try. There is of course the possibility that the
> 'boys' might NOT be able to identify specific passages or clear
> differences before the blind phase. Will not know until we try. Ok, that's
> why I suggest you trying the Regen first to es
Archi
Thanks for putting in the time to put together this plan & writing it
up.
Can I suggest some changes?
I think you should spend some time with Regen listening before test day.
It's a mistake to rush into listening & then blind listening without
first doing what I said - identifying a specif
jkeny wrote:
> I expect Archi will be careful in usual level-matching, etc. & I'm sure
> he will do some informal blind listening too so I'm pretty sure he wont
> go ahead with statistical blind tests unless he is sure about these
> listening impressions.
Of course.
>
> No, it's more than this
Julf wrote:
> Can you share any test results that would support that claim?
Empirical. My hearing is what matters most. I'm in this hobby because
I take pleasure in listening to recorded music reproduced in the home.
The experience I've created for myself is not ordinary and all of the
compon
jkeny wrote:
> Archi, let me lay out some issues that I would like to discuss so that I
> can be assured that I'm not being taken for a ride & that there is an
> honest attempt at establishing the Regen audibly improves the sound when
> used in front of a USB DAC of reasonable quality:
>
> These
Julf wrote:
> Absolutely.
>
> Of course not. But they will not be accepted as absolute proof of
> anything either.I expect Archi will be careful in usual level-matching, etc.
> & I'm sure
he will do some informal blind listening too so I'm pretty sure he wont
go ahead with statistical blind tes
jh901 wrote:
> It is possible for those with experience to hear differences using any
> number of sets of similar length (8-10').
Can you share any test results that would support that claim?
"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidel
jkeny wrote:
> there is an honest attempt at establishing the Regen audibly improves
> the sound when used in front of a USB DAC of reasonable quality
Absolutely.
> - Archimago & friends listening impressions will not be dismissed out of
> hand.
Of course not. But they will not be accepted as
arnyk wrote:
> The DACs in the Sony CDP 101 and the Philips CD 100 (the first
> generation CD players) were almost sonically transparent. The similar
> parts in the second generation CD players were sonically transparent.
>
> Some contemporaneous amps and preamps would pass similar listening
>
Civility? If Arny pops in with a hint of respect and civility then I'm
going to start questioning whether I've suddenly passed and just don't
know it yet.
I would be interested in tracking down some Pittsburgh area forum
members (or otherwise locals) you folks know who have interest and
experien
Archi, let me lay out some issues that I would like to discuss so that I
can be assured that I'm not being taken for a ride & that there is an
honest attempt at establishing the Regen audibly improves the sound when
used in front of a USB DAC of reasonable quality:
These points are also addressed
Mnyb wrote:
> Sorry I wrote that after your first post reading your signature , I did
> not see your further describtion .
> But anyway now we know that it has a digital input , makes the product
> even more versatile . Thank you .
No problem. Actually, as one who for a long time subscribed to t
Julf wrote:
> I agree that something like hydrogen audio might be better for that.
>
> More than happy to - and also more than happy to involve a bunch of
> people with long careers in measuring audio-related things...
Yea, have a go - it will be interesting!
--
Julf wrote:
> Not that there are any preconceived notions here... :)
I know - this could be considered as coaching the results of his
listening, couldn't it - biasing to hear what I'm suggesting his
measurements will reveal - no difference.
And as hearing is such a malleable sense, I'm taking a c
jkeny wrote:
> Hey don't thank me yet as I suspect that Archi's measurements will show
> nothing.
> What will be more important will be Archi & friends honest opinion of
> what they hear which you will probably dismiss
Ah, have we met? ;-)
I have great faith in that Archimago will try as hard
jkeny wrote:
> Hey don't thank me yet as I suspect that Archi's measurements will show
> nothing.
Not that there are any preconceived notions here... :)
"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gil
ralphpnj wrote:
> Gary I believe that you are correct and that is my understanding of the
> label "pre-FM" in that it was a live recording made for FM broadcast but
> the "pre-FM" version is one that is taken from the broadcast source
> (either a direct soundboard feed or a tape made from the sou
Gandhi wrote:
> The Regen will now (hopefully) get measured by an independent party.
> This is a very good turn of events and I would like to thank jkeny for
> volunteering to try to arrange that.
Hey don't thank me yet as I suspect that the measurements will be of no
consequence.
What will be mo
Archimago wrote:
> Sure. If you send me one. I will open 2 separate threads. One purely for
> subjective impressions with my friends, sighted and unsighted. And a
> second purely for objective data whether l find a difference or not. Of
> course listening will be done first and in fact will keep
The Regen will now (hopefully) get measured by an independent party.
This is a very good turn of events and I would like to thank jkeny for
volunteering to try to arrange that.
Best Regards,
Gandhi
not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fan
jkeny wrote:
> So, Archi, if I can send you the Regen what I expect is a fair analysis
> of your subjective listening experiences from both you & your friends
> BEFORE you do any measurements, OK?
>
> I also would ask you to open up a discussion about measurements & what
> ones you could do with
jkeny wrote:
> OK, PM me your address & I'll see what I can do.
Done. Thanks. See what you can do.
Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective'
audiophile blog.
Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slim
So, Archi, if I can send you the Regen what I expect is a fair analysis
of your subjective listening experiences from both you & your friends
BEFORE you do any measurements, OK?
I also would ask you to open up a discussion about measurements & what
ones you could do with what test signals as I an
Archimago wrote:
> Sure.
>
> My TEAC UD-501 connected to Windows 8.1 Pentium G3220-based HTPC for a
> typical TI PCM1795 chip-based solution with up to DSD128 capability.
>
> My friend (last I checked 3 months ago) has PS Audio DirectStream DAC
> connected to a Mac for a more modern and atypica
jkeny wrote:
> OK, same question to you - what USB audio device would you be using it
> with?
Sure.
My TEAC UD-501 connected to Windows 8.1 Pentium G3220-based HTPC for a
typical TI PCM1795 chip-based solution with up to DSD128 capability.
My friend (last I checked 3 months ago) has PS Audio D
jkeny wrote:
> Right, good, so what USB audio device would you be using it with?
As I don't even have a USB DAC I wouldn't really know what to do with
the device. Therefore I'd just immediately relay it to Archimago, so
that he could measure it. You might as well send it to him directly.
Saves t
Archimago wrote:
> I would also. Vancouver, Canada.
>
> I'll even invite a couple of audiophile friends over or take it to their
> place to listen. Plus of course a few measurements with my DAC and what
> I did with the optical USB to look for packet noise changes.
OK, same question to you - wha
Gandhi wrote:
> Sweden. Sure, that would be great! I'd be happy to accept the gift
> (loan?), should you decide to send it to me!
Right, good, so what USB audio device would you be using it with?
jkeny's Profile: http://fo
jkeny wrote:
> What country are you located in? What if I can get a Regen sent to you
> to listen, would you be interested?
I would also. Vancouver, Canada.
I'll even invite a couple of audiophile friends over or take it to their
place to listen. Plus of course a few measurements with my DAC an
jkeny wrote:
> What country are you located in? What if I can get a Regen sent to you
> to listen, would you be interested?
Sweden. Sure, that would be great! I'd gratefully accept the gift
(loan?), should you decide to send it to me!
Best Regards,
Gandhi
not often enough well recorded and m
What country are you located in? What if I can get a Regen sent to you
to listen, would you be interested?
jkeny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35192
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.c
Gandhi wrote:
> Now that's interesting. Please explain why it would be impossible to
> measure a change on the output of the DAC when the Regen in connected to
> the input. I thought the whole point of the device was to change the
> output in a beneficial way.
I said any measurements that may eme
jkeny wrote:
> Oh, so you are honestly just interested in arguments - not an honest
> evaluation of the device which listening to it would provide you with?
> As I said, I find your position dishonest if your goal is to evaluate
> the Regen device. But honest, if your goal is to have arguments.
jkeny wrote:
> So, no, you are not looking for "proof" (it's not possible)
Now that's interesting. Please explain why it would be impossible to
measure a change on the output of the DAC when the Regen in connected to
the input. I thought the whole point of the device was to change the
output in
Gandhi wrote:
> Oh, we actually agree. Great. But why then this argument?
>
> *Those arguments would be about facts.* Facts serve as a basis for an
> informed discussion. Anecdotes do not.
Oh, so you are honestly just interested in arguments - not an honest
evaluation of the device which listen
What do you expect jk? I read on CA for years and i did not join there
because there a uncountable posts that i would call nonsense to put it
mildly. Now you come to the Slimdevices forum and link to CA for prove?
I wonder why not all people complaining about the objectivist style here
simpy duscu
jkeny wrote:
> We all know that only professionally administered, carefully controlled,
> large scale DBT would offer any semblance of proof & then it would
> probably be argued about
> We all know that whatever measurements are produced will be argued over
Oh, we actually agree. Great. But why
jkeny wrote:
>
> What I find dishonest in your position is the refusal to listen to this
> device as it doesn't have measurements.
>
So Jkeny what did you hear when you listened to your Regen?
arnyk's Profile: http://f
Gandhi wrote:
> We seem to have vastly different definitions of the word "honest".
> Perhaps you would care to explain your definition?
>
> And by the way. Obviously the personal attacks are now back. They will
> not help your case. Arguing your point using specific, clear, fact based
> and logi
Mnyb wrote:
> I'm no expert but i do think that consistent means that if a resonance
> peak shows up in all positions it should really be compensated . If its
> in one forget about it .
> If the levels differs in the multiple positions find a sensible average
> ? That's my thinking , a pro may ha
Gandhi wrote:
> I found a sensible answer to that question. Can't believe I didn't think
> of that myself.
>
> "Dirac Live uses several measurement positions (9 typically) in the
> listening room. This way, it is possible to find consistent acoustic
> problems. Only these should be corrected."
jkeny wrote:
> Right, I was just wondering how all those who claim the transparency of
> current DACs would reconcile their position if they listened to the
> Regen? Of course, refusing to listen to such a device will save their
> embarrassment. But some such objectivists have the 'courage to lis
arnyk wrote:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20050207234315/http://www.pcavtech.com/play-rec/reports/index.htm
>
> More specificially:
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20050210151051/http://www.pcavtech.com/play-rec/Sony_CDP-101/index.htm
>
> More specificially:
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/2
Gandhi wrote:
> We seem to have vastly different definitions of the word "honest".
> Perhaps you would care to explain your definition?
Honesty with yourself is more impressive than winning forum debates!
jkeny's Profile:
jkeny wrote:
> The depth of denial is impressive - I'll give you that ... but not very
> honest!
We seem to have vastly different definitions of the word "honest".
Perhaps you would care to explain your definition?
Best Regards,
Gandhi
not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpo
The depth of denial is impressive - I'll give you that ... but not very
honest!
jkeny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35192
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842
jkeny wrote:
> Right, I was just wondering how all those who claim the transparency of
> current DACs would reconcile their position if they listened to the
> Regen? Of course, refusing to listen to such a device will save their
> embarrassment. But some such objectivists have the 'courage to lis
Linking to CA for the proof of anything is a joke.
Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA
monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers
Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.p
Gandhi wrote:
> Correct. I have repeatedly stated this. Proof is needed for _anyone_ to
> _know_. But the burden of proof is on the _manufacturer_.
>
>
>
> Sure. Things are reported every day. But just because they are reported
> doesn't necessarily make them true. They might be, or they migh
SBGK wrote:
> More empty words from the internet warrior.
Arguing your point using specific, clear, fact based and logical
arguments might help people to agree with you.
Best Regards,
Gandhi
not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with
accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless
Gandhi wrote:
> In REW all you can do automatically is averaging multiple measurements.
> I wonder if there is a better way of solving that problem automatically?
> Optimise with respect to what?
I found a sensible answer to that question. Can't believe I didn't think
of that myself.
"Dirac Li
arnyk wrote:
> Just one of very many such audio accessories:
>
> Green CD pens
> Various rocks and items made of rocks
> cable elevators
> $5,000 CAT-5E & 6 network cables
> etc.
> etc
>
>
>
> The comment about quality stuff often being transparent is something
> that can be shown to be true
jkeny wrote:
>
>
> Among the many devices it has been reported to improve are USB audio
> devices considered "quality".
>
Just one of very many such audio accessories:
Green CD pens
Various rocks and items made of rocks
cable elevators
$5,000 CAT-5E & 6 network cables
etc.
etc
>
> Please t
jkeny wrote:
> Just to clarify this statement "I have no idea whether Regen works" -
> "works" is too vague a term - it could mean that when you turn on the
> power button that the electrical components are powered. So am I right
> in interpreting this statement of yours to mean - you have no id
jh901 wrote:
> I'm under the impression that you must have found that the Transporter
> offers the best possible analog output from a digital source. Did the
> Transporter exceed the performance of the much less pricey Duet box?
So far I haven't even once mentioned the Transporter in this threa
Mnyb wrote:
> It's a 24 bit volume control dithering may be academic in those cases
> may actually not be needed in practice .
> I don't think for example a SB3 or transporter has the horsepower to run
> a dither algorithm ,so yes I think I actually read years ago that it is
> undithered .
>
> B
darrenyeats wrote:
> I'd be surprised if the SBT, or any modern, digital volume control was
> not dithered.
>
> I was indeed referring to loss of analogue-domain resolution with
> digital volume control (since digital resolution is generally retained).
It's a 24 bit volume control dithering may
I'd be surprised if the SBT, or any modern, digital volume control was
not dithered.
I was indeed referring to loss of analogue-domain resolution with
digital volume control (since digital resolution is generally retained).
Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/
SB Touch
--
Mnyb wrote:
> 1. In practice I think it's ok the best practical DAC's are 20-21 bits
> anyway so chucking the first 4 bits does nothing . And hearing better
> than >16 bits is very hard so but already the volume starts to get low .
> And then when you starts nagging at the 16 bits the volume is r
darrenyeats wrote:
> Some dodgy technical claims in recent posts.
>
> 1. DACs with ">16 bit performance" don't keep that performance when
> employing digital volume control (to be clear I'm not arguing against
> digital volume control, in fact I'm a fan, nevertheless the observation
> stands).
>
darrenyeats wrote:
> Some dodgy technical claims in recent posts.
>
> 1. DACs with ">16 bit performance" don't keep that performance when
> employing digital volume control (to be clear I'm not arguing against
> digital volume control, in fact I'm a fan, nevertheless the observation
> stands).
>
Gandhi wrote:
> I don't know, but a quote comes to mind.
>
> Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level
> and then beat you with experience.
> Mark Twain
You have a point.
"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art o
Some dodgy technical claims in recent posts.
1. DACs with ">16 bit performance" don't keep that performance when
employing digital volume control (to be clear I'm not arguing against
digital volume control, in fact I'm a fan, nevertheless the observation
stands).
2. In audio recording and reprod
Archimago wrote:
> I think it would be fascinating running contemporary measurements on one
> of these 1st get CD players! Would be very curious what the noise floor
> was like and how the filters look... Those supposedly nasty "brick
> walls".
https://web.archive.org/web/20050207234315/http://w
jkeny wrote:
> Archi, I guess you didn't look up my posts from 2009/2010 on this
> forum?
>
I don't know why you'd mention that jkeny, because what is there from
you is a lot of empty talk that was summarized as follows:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?55044-Would-it-make-sense-to
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