Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-04-01 Thread ralphpnj
tufty;698897 Wrote: > Wasn't the Clever Little Clock review a parody? It gets increasingly > hard to tell the difference. Perhaps the TAS Computer Music series was also meant to be a parody. That would go a long way in explaining some of their errant claims. Unfortunately I do not think that is

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-04-01 Thread tufty
Wasn't the Clever Little Clock review a parody? It gets increasingly hard to tell the difference. -- tufty tufty's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=47700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-04-01 Thread darrell
andy_c;698824 Wrote: > Their Clever Little Clock was given a > '_\\"Brutus_Award\\"_by_Positive_Feedback_Online_' > (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue28/brutus.htm). The award was > given by none other than Dave Clark, the guy who coined the "danceable > cables" expression in reference to t

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-31 Thread Phil Leigh
andy_c;698824 Wrote: > Their Clever Little Clock was given a > '_\\"Brutus_Award\\"_by_Positive_Feedback_Online_' > (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue28/brutus.htm). The award was > given by none other than Dave Clark, the guy who coined the "danceable > cables" expression in reference to t

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-31 Thread andy_c
Their Clever Little Clock was given a '_Brutus_Award_by_Positive_Feedback_Online_' (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue28/brutus.htm). The award was given by none other than Dave Clark, the guy who coined the "danceable cables" expression in reference to the infamous Pear Cables :). -- andy

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-31 Thread TheOctavist
Geoff Kait makes BlackBody look like Wittgenstein http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina60.htm -- TheOctavist Vortexbox>SBT(stock)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due Venti>>Link Audio K100 --

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-29 Thread garym
Owen Smith;698342 Wrote: > Logitech have a future direction for the Squeezebox? Can't say I'd > noticed. he didn't actually reference Squeezebox in terms of logitech's future. But that's a different thread -- garym *Location 1:* VB Appliance 6TB (1.10) > LMS 7.7.1 > Transporter, Touch, B

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-29 Thread Owen Smith
DaveWr;698339 Wrote: > I think that's in direct proportion to Logitech's future direction, new > players, TVs or whatever. Mindgames expand to fill the dreadful > silence. It's the ultimate signal to noise ratio! > > Dave Logitech have a future direction for the Squeezebox? Can't say I'd noti

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-29 Thread DaveWr
garym;698306 Wrote: > yep, pure insanity. I hate those sort of forums where myths become > truth. The inmates are in charge of the asylum and sane folks are > treated as crazy. Unfortunately, some of that is creeping in around > here... I think that's in direct proportion to Logitech's future di

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-29 Thread Soulkeeper
Ok, PM me when you've got the money. I've got some nylon hose from an old PSU, and some copper tape leftovers after shielding my Telecaster. I reckon I can use all that (and some gaffa tape) to make any old set of USB cables look just terrific. And very, very audiophile-y. I'll even sell the fin

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-29 Thread EricBergan
Me, I'm saving up to buy a few $500/m USB cables... :-) eric -- EricBergan EricBergan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4746 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93549

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-29 Thread mlsstl
Soulkeeper;698308 Wrote: > ... Other than that, it seems we'll just have to let them flop around in > their magic wonderland of objective subjectivity (or was it the other > way around), on this forum too. You can lead a brain to thought, but > you can't make it think. The catch is with 7 billion

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-29 Thread Soulkeeper
garym;698306 Wrote: > yep, pure insanity. I hate those sort of forums where myths become > truth. The inmates are in charge of the asylum and sane folks are > treated as crazy. Unfortunately, some of that is creeping in around > here... The moderators don't want to do anything about it, so the w

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-29 Thread garym
Owen Smith;698251 Wrote: > I've been having that argument over on AVForums in the Oppo 95 EU forum. > Apparently dbpoweramp sucks and EAC is much better, even if they both > report accurate rip and produce identical files the EAC one will sound > *SOOO* much better and I must be insane to be usin

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-28 Thread Owen Smith
Mnyb;689974 Wrote: > In that whole series I find their finding that perfect digital copies of > files sound different the most insane . I've been having that argument over on AVForums in the Oppo 95 EU forum. Apparently dbpoweramp sucks and EAC is much better, even if they both report accurate r

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-05 Thread ralphpnj
EricBergan;694200 Wrote: > Ok, I wasn't a big believer in the TAS "sell them anything" conspiracy > theory. But just got #222. There were two letters to the editor printed > about the four part story, but both asking for advice on whether they > should re-rip their FLAC files. > > So no question

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-05 Thread EricBergan
Ok, I wasn't a big believer in the TAS "sell them anything" conspiracy theory. But just got #222. There were two letters to the editor printed about the four part story, but both asking for advice on whether they should re-rip their FLAC files. So no questions published about Dr Charles Zellig an

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-05 Thread mlsstl
Phil Leigh;694006 Wrote: > I particularly enjoyed this priceless gem of 6moons hyperbollox... > > "... no longer felt assaulted from this powerful computer's radiations > with its Blutooth mouse and keyboard. Whether this meant wholesale > elimination of its emissions Wonder if that means

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread ralphpnj
Mnyb;694010 Wrote: > You can not know or understand everything in detail yourself if you have > a legal question you go to a layer if you have question about your > pension you talk to your banker so we have to make a shortcut and > select authorities we believe in in certain questions but why on

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread Mnyb
One mechanism of the human mind is bit of a mystery to me , but of no mystery to snake oilers. Where to these jokers writing in TAS authority come from ? Why are anyone believing these fools over more sane authorities ? they have found a working concept of playing on our wishful thinking in some

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread Phil Leigh
Mnyb;693940 Wrote: > Yeah but it wont last over time, hence you are in the "upgrade" spiral > > What can be mildly irritating as that no one reads the tread it is like > a Relay race the next audiofool comes along and pose the same already > answered and done questions without any apparent unde

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread andynormancx
ralphpnj;693992 Wrote: > The same comment with one minor change could also be used to describe > the TAS Computer Music series: > > Wow. That is the most impressive professional looking bullshit I've > ever seen. They really have perfected the art of PUBLISHING snake oil. Very true. -- andyn

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread Mnyb
For a good freakshow note all the weird adds on both avguide (TAS and hifi+) and stereophiles home pages . Also lesslos that does the blackbox have some computer audio stuff too hence a tangent with the topic of fud in computer audio but I simply did not get further than the blackbox :) Sorry f

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread ralphpnj
andynormancx;693990 Wrote: > Wow. That is the most impressive professional looking bullshit I've ever > seen. They really have perfected the art of selling snake oil. The same comment with one minor change could also be used to describe the TAS Computer Music series: Wow. That is the most impre

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread totoro
andynormancx;693990 Wrote: > Wow. That is the most impressive professional looking bullshit I've ever > seen. They really have perfected the art of selling snake oil. Yes, that is _exactly_ the kind of thing that makes the word "audiophile" an embarrassment. -- totoro sb touch -> classdaudio

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread andynormancx
Mnyb;693940 Wrote: > > > In the meantime have a blackbody :) > > http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html Wow. That is the most impressive professional looking bullshit I've ever seen. They really have perfected the art of selling snake oil. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of t

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread totoro
darrenyeats;693915 Wrote: > Guys, > I think the tone of some of these posts is harsh on Paul. It seems to > me some frustration about other members or posts is being transferred > to Paul. I agree with this. I disagree with Paul. However, unlike item_audio, magiccarpetride, or ncarver, he didn't

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread Phil Leigh
darrenyeats;693915 Wrote: > guys, > i think the tone of some of these posts is harsh on paul. It seems to > me some frustration about other members or posts is being transferred > to paul. > > I agree about the emailed audio files anecdote. This is why an > understanding of how computers work is

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread ralphpnj
andy_c;693862 Wrote: > uuencode and base64 sound waaay better than yEnc. :D Not when the music is jazz. yEnc for jazz, uuencode for rock and popular and base64 for classical. Mnyb;693864 Wrote: > Which font was used on the newsgroup any serifs would add a peculiar > edge on stuff :D Serifs do

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread Mnyb
darrell;693935 Wrote: > > > Such a cable is still a fraud, because the engineering claims made are > lies, even if the end result is a perception of improved sound in the > mind of the user. > > . Yeah but it wont last over time, hence you are in the "upgrade" spiral What can be mildly irri

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread darrell
darrenyeats;693915 Wrote: > I think the tone of some of these posts is harsh on Paul. It seems to me > some frustration about other members or posts is being transferred to > Paul. paul.raulerson;693884 Wrote: > I wasn't ready to dismiss it as swamp gas, because there is a > possibility that som

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread darrenyeats
Guys, I think the tone of some of these posts is harsh on Paul. It seems to me some frustration about other members or posts is being transferred to Paul. I agree about the emailed audio files. This is why an understanding of how computers work is necessary. Those who understand, know there is no

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread andynormancx
ralphpnj;693842 Wrote: > > 1) I ripped a track from a CD into a wav file. > > 2) I converted that wav file to a flac file. > > 3) I uploaded this flac file to a newsgroup which means that the flac > file was converted into a yEnc file (a yEnc encoder converts binary > data, like the data (not

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-04 Thread chill
paul.raulerson;693884 Wrote: > Whoa - who said I was making a case? Semantics. You ARE making a claim, aren't you? The point is that if you allow your ears to mislead you into thinking that rips made with different power supplies sound different, then providing those rips are bit identical, th

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread Mnyb
totoro;693725 Wrote: > > Not sure that either people are capable in general of detecting > bullshit, or that it's strictly relevant here > > Partially I like to argue for the fun of it. Partially because people > like item_audio who spew bullshit really annoy me, and I don't see any > reason wh

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread andy_c
paul.raulerson;693887 Wrote: > Whooo boy. Are you guys really going around the world to get next door. > > > It's really pretty simple - there is no club initiation to enjoy home > audio as a hobby. No certification exams, nor any oversight agency > checking credentials. That's fine. In that c

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread paul.raulerson
andy_c;693883 Wrote: > What I've noticed is that people who value blind tests know that they > are difficult to perform correctly, and are therefore unlikely to > perform such tests on a hypothesis having little merit. And yet one > reads claims of blind testing of pretty questionable hypotheses,

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread paul.raulerson
Wombat;693879 Wrote: > Of coarse i will :) > > But always when i read such luch statements like this: > > Closing one eye for a moment on a sighted test is the max i anticipate > of such a claim. Then you are being nothing more than an arse. For one thing, I didn't test to convince you, just m

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread paul.raulerson
chill;693843 Wrote: > Paul - the problem with this is PRECISELY the same as the problem with > those daft TAS claims. If a file ripped on a PC with a lousy power > supply is bit-for-bit identical with one ripped from a PC with a better > power supply, then the power supply made no difference. J

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread andy_c
What I've noticed is that people who value blind tests know that they are difficult to perform correctly, and are therefore unlikely to perform such tests on a hypothesis having little merit. And yet one reads claims of blind testing of pretty questionable hypotheses, with alleged positive results

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread Wombat
andy_c;693877 Wrote: > Stick around man! Sanity is not so easy to find in audiophile forums. Of coarse i will :) But always when i read such luch statements like this: paul.raulerson;693808 Wrote: > Actually, we set up the tests so that they were blind, in fact as well > as in principal, and I

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread andy_c
Stick around man! Sanity is not so easy to find in audiophile forums. -- andy_c andy_c's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3128 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93549

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread Wombat
I stated to read around here is not worth but on the other hand you guys are really a funny crowd sometimes :) Excuse me if i came across arrogant. You deserve a gold medal for consistency and nerves of steel!! -- Wombat Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monobloc

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread andy_c
Mnyb;693864 Wrote: > Which font was used on the newsgroup any serifs would add a peculiar > edge on stuff :D I use only monospaced fonts when reading newsgroups, as the uniform spacing between bytes reduces jitter considerably! :D -- andy_c

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread Mnyb
andy_c;693862 Wrote: > uuencode and base64 sound waaay better than yEnc. :D Which font was used on the newsgroup any serifs would add a peculiar edge on stuff :D -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread andy_c
ralphpnj;693842 Wrote: > > 3) I uploaded this flac file to a newsgroup which means that the flac > file was converted into a yEnc file (a yEnc encoder converts binary > data, like the data (not music!!!) in a digital audio file, into text) > and that yEnc file was then split into several smaller

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread chill
paul.raulerson;693820 Wrote: > I also have a friend who is convinced that the power supply makes a > difference when ripping. I have listened to a bit of his stuff, and > darned if I didn't think I heard a difference. Note - "think" - I am > NOT convinced I actually did hear a difference. Unlike

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread ralphpnj
paul.raulerson;693820 Wrote: > Going out on a limb here, but some folks I know claim that emailing a > file can "change" it and make it sound different. I would normally > discount that out of hand, but this came from a very noted record > producer and engineer with her own studio. That gives me

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread andy_c
Sounds like Cookie Marenco. Google her for all kinds of audiophile hilarity. -- andy_c andy_c's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3128 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread garym
darrell;693838 Wrote: > This is easy to clear up. compare the emailed file (bit for bit) with > the original. If it is the same, it is the same, and will sound the > same, regardless of the credentials of those who say otherwise. If it > is not the same, all bets are off. > > The argument from a

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread darrell
paul.raulerson;693820 Wrote: > > Going out on a limb here, but some folks I know claim that emailing a > file can "change" it and make it sound different. I would normally > discount that out of hand, but this came from a very noted record > producer and engineer with her own studio. That gives

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread ralphpnj
paul.raulerson;693820 Wrote: > A friend of mine has a saying he is fond of, and that is that none of > this is a life or death type of issue - we are not killing babies here. > He's right. I've said this before and I'll say it again: I agree that the grand scheme of things home audio isn't all

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread paul.raulerson
Wombat;693829 Wrote: > At least we now can imagine were your gullibility comes from if you > correspond with such people. > :( Ah, and you make my point about the ugly trolls prowling around the Internet. I said that the people I was talking with are respectable enough to make me at least think

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread Wombat
paul.raulerson;693820 Wrote: > > Going out on a limb here, but some folks I know claim that emailing a > file can "change" it and make it sound different. I would normally > discount that out of hand, but this came from a very noted record > producer and engineer with her own studio. That gives

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread Phil Leigh
paul.raulerson;693812 Wrote: > Pretty much 100% agree Phil. Except of course, a Squeezebox sounds > better if the LMS is running on Linux or MacOS instead of Windows. > > -Paul > > > > (grin - you realize I am pulling your chain right? :) ) :-) oh yeah... nearly got me! -- Phil Leigh

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread paul.raulerson
totoro;693793 Wrote: > I'm sorry, but at this point in the argument (ok, discussion :) ) you > seem to be pretty much ignoring the fact that there is a well > established literature on the way we humans trick ourselves. There are > some videos on youtube by Ethan Winer and Poppy Crum illustrating

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread paul.raulerson
Pretty much 100% agree Phil. Except of course, a Squeezebox sounds better if the LMS is running on Linux or MacOS instead of Windows. -Paul (grin - you realize I am pulling your chain right? :) ) -- paul.raulerson

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread paul.raulerson
mlsstl;693759 Wrote: > No, it means you're human. Surprise! > > However, a husband and wife working together to confirm what the > husband believes he already hears hardly qualifies as a "blind" test. > Just another variant of the old "even my wife could hear it!" proof. You sir, do not know m

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread totoro
paul.raulerson;693754 Wrote: > > Here we fundamentally differ. If someone thinks they hear a difference, > then they do hear a difference. It is just asinine to say the don't, and > serves no purpose. > > Unless that 'someone' is a company or trying to sell you something, or > trying to come o

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread totoro
paul.raulerson;693754 Wrote: > > Perhaps. However, in this thread, just by saying I can hear a > difference in two USB cables between a particular machine and a > particular DAC, I have been told I have been brainwashed by a cult. :) > > Not by me, as I hope you noticed :). -- totoro sb t

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread totoro
chill;693738 Wrote: > Have we stopped believing this now? Wow, you stop paying attention for > 5 minutes... > > (Sorry - I agreed with every other word of your post :)) Got me. :) It was late, I somehow switched earth and sun. Sorry about that, I do this kind of switcheroo in code occasion

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread Phil Leigh
DaveWr;693780 Wrote: > Sorry, forgot about the Kivor, similarly the Cyrus systems. Never saw > the point of the all-in-one. As you described difficulties of computer > systems affecting audio, and why put quickly obsolete storage stuff in > with relatively stable network and audio technology.

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread DaveWr
Sorry, forgot about the Kivor, similarly the Cyrus systems. Never saw the point of the all-in-one. As you described difficulties of computer systems affecting audio, and why put quickly obsolete storage stuff in with relatively stable network and audio technology. -- DaveWr --

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread Phil Leigh
DaveWr;693772 Wrote: > Agree Phil, except the Linn comment is wrong their DS products are > structurally identical to Squeezethings, all are networked players, > indeed ethernet only! Yes - I was thinking about the earlier machines (like the Kivor - remember those?) - not the modern (DS) ones wh

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread DaveWr
Agree Phil, except the Linn comment is wrong their DS products are structurally identical to Squeezethings, all are networked players, indeed ethernet only! -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread Phil Leigh
I think we are in danger of losing the plot of this thread here (if it ever had one?). Let's seperate 3 things: 1) The TAS article, in particular its claims about wav-flac conversion being an irreversible, detrimental process. This is what I'm railing against when I attack them. It is just a pla

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread mlsstl
paul.raulerson: Wrote: > I have been told I have been brainwashed by a cult. :) No, it means you're human. Surprise! I read your explanation of your home tests and the confidence you derived from them. That's a great way to make a personal decision regarding the equipment and accessories you

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread mlsstl
I've mentioned this book in the past, but a very readable tome on the subject of human perception is Dr. Cordelia Fine's "A Mind of Its Own: How Your Brain Distorts & Deceives". "Expectation bias" is far too limited a term as it implies we can only be fooled by what we already expect. Things are

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread paul.raulerson
totoro;693725 Wrote: > The programs we are talking about are rippers. If two rippers (of the > standard sort that the TAS people are talking about, that used standard > library functions to write data to disc) write out bit-identical files, > if there are any differences at all due to the locatio

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread chill
totoro;693725 Wrote: > People once believed the earth revolved around the sun. Have we stopped believing this now? Wow, you stop paying attention for 5 minutes... (Sorry - I agreed with every other word of your post :)) -- chill --

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread Mnyb
paul.raulerson;693720 Wrote: > > > > > As for a large number of people, well, where there is smoke, you can > bet some form of combustion is happening. The reasons or explanations > the give are probably less than accurate, but that something is > happening is probably pretty likely. Again, Y

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-03 Thread totoro
paul.raulerson;693720 Wrote: > Well, not to belabor the point either, but of course it does. If one > program is a memory player and one is not, it can make all the > difference in the world. > The programs we are talking about are rippers. If two rippers (of the standard sort that the TAS peop

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread Mnyb
" b. for all anyone here knows, I could really be a janitor at a car fittings company " Some of those probably have better bs detectors than many professors . Positive example as in the latest faster than light discovery at cern , the scientist solicited and wanted more eyes on the problem and f

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread paul.raulerson
totoro;693717 Wrote: > Not to belabour the point, but the issue of whether location on disc > affects sound or whether or not the disc is highly fragmented is NOT > germane to whether using program 1 or program 2 make the same identical > file sounds better. You know this as well as I do, I would

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread totoro
paul.raulerson;693713 Wrote: > Snort!!! > > This whole thing is running rampant. I'm a very good software and > systems engineer, and I have more than a little electronics in my > background. > > (1) I can change a dratted USB cable between my Mac and a high end > synch USB DAC (a Wavelength P

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread paul.raulerson
paulster;693704 Wrote: > I just wonder if any of the people here who believe that computers > and/or storage can actually make a difference have any problems using > ATMs, credit cards or any form of banking that requires computers and > ethernet connections. > > It's got me worried now! ;-) Sn

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread paulster
I just wonder if any of the people here who believe that computers and/or storage can actually make a difference have any problems using ATMs, credit cards or any form of banking that requires computers and ethernet connections. It's got me worried now! ;-) -- paulster Receiver stuck at blue

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread Mnyb
darrenyeats;693664 Wrote: > It's easy for us computer folk to think everyone should understand this > when they don't. > > A file on a computer, as Phil stated, is just numbers. This is the case > whether the file is a spreadsheet, an audio file or a picture. > > Copying a file creates an exact

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread darrenyeats
It's easy for us computer folk to think everyone should understand this when they don't. A file on a computer, as Phil stated, is just numbers. This is the case whether the file is a spreadsheet, an audio file or a picture. Copying a file creates an exact copy. So you have another file with the

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread Phil Leigh
ncarver;693616 Wrote: > I don't understand "history of the content." By that you mean which one > came first, etc.? > > So let's be more precise and say we have two bit-identical audio/video > files stored within the same physical filesystem (i.e., same partition) > on some type of storage devi

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread Soulkeeper
ncarver;693616 Wrote: > I don't understand "history of the content." By that you mean which one > came first, etc.? No. Not the history of the files. The history of the content of the files. Let me illustrate with two hypothetical scenarios. I'll call them A and B. Scenario A: 1) You have an u

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread cliveb
ncarver;693616 Wrote: > So let's be more precise and say we have two bit-identical audio/video > files stored within the same physical filesystem (i.e., same partition) > on some type of storage device on a computer. You really want to claim > that it is absolutely impossible for there to be any

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread Mnyb
TAS copying argument is actually even more silly, they basically imply that you have to rerip a new WAV file after it has been transcoded to FLAC and back to WAV and implies that this is an irrecoverable generational loss which is completely impossible . That no moving around or defrag or reformat

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread totoro
ncarver;693616 Wrote: > I don't understand "history of the content." By that you mean which one > came first, etc.? > > So let's be more precise and say we have two bit-identical audio/video > files stored within the same physical filesystem (i.e., same partition) > on some type of storage devi

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread EricBergan
ncarver;693616 Wrote: > > So let's be more precise and say we have two bit-identical audio/video > files stored within the same physical filesystem (i.e., same partition) > on some type of storage device on a computer. You really want to claim > that it is absolutely impossible for there to be

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread Wombat
With HD playback is is not as you move bits from HD to the player like S/PDIF during the whole song in a stream. An average song with 50MB needs 2 seconds of HD access somewhere during its lets say 4 minutes. Depending on the player this access happens in the beginning to the buffer or otherwise.

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread ncarver
Soulkeeper;693578 Wrote: > No. But I am saying that if you have two bit-identical files, it is > impossible for the history of the content of these files to cause them > to be play differently on any computer. And therefore absolutely no > effort needs to be wasted to refute such a claim, and tho

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread Phil Leigh
bluegaspode;693594 Wrote: > But ProTools is so expensive that they definitely have cared for the > problem that the files they record might sound differently based on the > position of the harddrive where the file is saved. > > I think for the same reason ProTools only records in WAV and not FLA

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread bluegaspode
Phil Leigh;693553 Wrote: > They will simply laugh. > ProTools anyone? But ProTools is so expensive that they definitely have cared for the problem that the files they record might sound differently based on the position of the harddrive where the file is saved. I think for the same reason ProTo

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread Phil Leigh
Soulkeeper;693578 Wrote: > No. But I am saying that if you have two bit-identical files, it is > impossible for the history of the content of these files to cause them > to be play differently on any computer. And therefore absolutely no > effort needs to be wasted to refute such a claim, and tho

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread Soulkeeper
ncarver;693545 Wrote: > Just to clarify, are you saying that it is so clearly impossible for two > bit-identical copies of an audio/video file stored on a computer to play > differently on that computer, that absolutely no effort needs to be > wasted to refute such a claim, and those making the c

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread darrenyeats
Phil Leigh;693560 Wrote: > Which is why some of these "Audio PC" solutions cache the entire track > in RAM first before playback commences... > > But I agree that EVERY event is electrically different froma noise > perspective. > > Which as you imply makes a complete mockerey of the whole thing

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread Phil Leigh
darrenyeats;693557 Wrote: > Computers work through layered, dynamic processes which mean ANY > playback will be electrically different. In fact, replaying the same > file a second time is more likely to yield a difference because the > file is likely to be cached entirely in memory the second tim

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-02 Thread darrenyeats
Phil Leigh;693553 Wrote: > It is theoretically possible (but highly unlikely) for two identical > copies of a file to play back differently if AND ONLY IF: > > 1) the hard disk is INSIDE the computer, attached to the motherboard. > 2) the soundcard with DAC is part of the PC. > > and the electr

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-01 Thread Phil Leigh
ncarver;693545 Wrote: > Of course my post was mainly in jest--perhaps you missed the smiley? I > thought a sorbothane mouse pad a poor choice to poke fun at audio > tweeks, since it might actually perform very well for mechanical mice, > and pads/surfaces can absolutely affect performance of mic

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-01 Thread bigblackdog
ncarver;693545 Wrote: > > > Just to clarify, are you saying that it is so clearly impossible for > two bit-identical copies of an audio/video file stored on a computer to > play differently on that computer, that absolutely no effort needs to be > wasted to refute such a claim, and those making

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-01 Thread ncarver
Soulkeeper;693482 Wrote: > No, because what you say isn't impossible. Unlike the claims made about > bit-perfect file copies sounding worse than the original. Extraordinary > claims require extraordinary evidence. The audiofool claims are > extraordinary and without evidence. Of course my post

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-01 Thread SuperQ
Mnyb;693001 Wrote: > I see the unicorn but somehow it's photons don't stick to film or excite > the ccd in my camera ? This just proves that unicorns are vorlons. -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-01 Thread Soulkeeper
ncarver;693439 Wrote: > Of course you "objectivists" can feel free to brand me as a flake since > I haven't confirmed my observations with double-blind testing or some > kind of measuring equipment--it just seems obvious: I move the mouse > and the cursor on screen doesn't move. But maybe this

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FUD, intellectual honesty, digital facts, and the TAS articles...

2012-03-01 Thread Daverz
Phil Leigh;693431 Wrote: > > It's only a matter of time before someone "invents" (in every sense of > the word) a "hi-fi" wi-fi platform, "super audio hard disks" (probably > SSD's) and devices (magic bricks) that attach to USB and ethernet > cables. > > Perhaps I can interest you all in my sor

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