On Monday 12 December 2005 04:41 am, martin f krafft wrote:
> But your post makes it all the more clear that *a lot* of Debian
> people need to get the facts straight, and that a Debian vs. Ubuntu
> comparison on #debian is definitely not out of place.
The problem with that, though, is the Ubuntu
My friends, First of all, congratulations for your best job. I am fan. I am projecting a system. The project will run at PC, and operation system gonna be Linux. I would like to do a budget of MIPS. At this point one main information are necessary:
How much MIPS the normal Operation Systems consu
also sprach Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.2241 +0100]:
> Yes, the Debian installer does a lot of things during the
> installation of Debian with the desktop task that you will not get
> if you just install packages with apt. One example is that our
> X needs read-edid and mdetect to be
Josh Rehman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> This question, for me, is moot since I don't plan on using #debian IRC
> again. I expected a level of maturity from a Debian representative
> that I did not get.
Don't expect maturity on IRC and don't expect detailed development
or advocacy discussion welcomed in
On Mon, 2005-12-12 at 21:42 +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.2121 +0100]:
> > So when was the last time you tried installing Debian with this
> > task whose name you are not even sure of?
>
> I don't think I ever installed the task myself, but s
On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 12:52:17PM -0800, Josh Rehman wrote:
> read the transcript: are you saying that you think your fellow
> operator acted rightly? Banning me when I was getting the information
> I needed, not banning an obvious troll (deadcat), and finally banning
> me before telling me where
martin f krafft wrote:
> Personal attacks aside, would you mind sharing what I missed? Does
> the desktop task do anything more than pull in some packages and let
> them configure themselves? Will my experience differ if I install
> the desktop task, or `apt-get install x-window-system kde gnome`
>
On 12/12/05, David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 01:59:05PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> > also sprach David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.11.0539 +0100]:
> > > Martin, I'd like for you to come in to #debian. Not for an hour or
> > > a few hours, but for a f
also sprach Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.2208 +0100]:
> Sigh, I rest my case. Thank god we have actual users who help us
> make Debian better as opposed to developers who are too busy
> running ubuntu.
Personal attacks aside, would you mind sharing what I missed? Does
the desktop task
also sprach David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.2202 +0100]:
> I'd personally love to see more specific complaints about how
> things could be improved.
I usually try to get those people to go into detail, or encourage
them to file bugs. However, "plain users" generally don't really
know
martin f krafft wrote:
> I don't think I ever installed the task myself
Sigh, I rest my case. Thank god we have actual users who help us make
Debian better as opposed to developers who are too busy running ubuntu.
--
see shy jo
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On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 09:42:14PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.2121 +0100]:
> > So when was the last time you tried installing Debian with this
> > task whose name you are not even sure of?
>
> I don't think I ever installed the task myself
also sprach Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.2121 +0100]:
> So when was the last time you tried installing Debian with this
> task whose name you are not even sure of?
I don't think I ever installed the task myself, but surely
I installed GNOME and/or KDE, and the task doesn't really do
a
martin f krafft wrote:
> No, of course I don't. And I was hoping my comment would be read
> with a grain of salt. d-i is massively cool and it gets more usable,
> even to "plain users" on a daily basis. But once you finished the
> install, what then?
You've missed my point I'm afraid.
> Ever comp
also sprach Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.2053 +0100]:
> Sure, but unless I misunderstood, your book wasn't about advocacy topics,
It surely included them. Anyway, this is going off-topic.
--
Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list!
.''`. martin f. kra
martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> also sprach Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.1953 +0100]:
>> People who go to IRC and ask advocacy questions are fairly unlikely to
>> get high-quality information no matter where you send them. At best,
>> they'll end up sparking another
also sprach Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.1953 +0100]:
> People who go to IRC and ask advocacy questions are fairly
> unlikely to get high-quality information no matter where you send
> them. At best, they'll end up sparking another one of these
> interminable discussions like the o
martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Because the quality of information there won't be much better than in
> Debian-forums -- people are biased. I've witnessed quite some polemic
> talk by Ubuntu users advocating their distro, somewhat reminiscent of
> what I would have assumed to hear by
On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 01:59:05PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.11.0539 +0100]:
> > Martin, I'd like for you to come in to #debian. Not for an hour or
> > a few hours, but for a few weeks to see what it's like. We have
> > consistently refus
also sprach Henning Makholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.1431 +0100]:
> > Still, #ubuntu is not the place to which we should
> > send people when they want Debian vs. Ubuntu thoughts.
>
> Respectfully: Why not?
Because the quality of information there won't be much better than
in Debian-forums
Scripsit martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Still, #ubuntu is not the place to which we should
> send people when they want Debian vs. Ubuntu thoughts.
Respectfully: Why not?
The Ubuntu people, having actually derived Ubuntu from Debian, are the
ones who are in the best position to know what
also sprach David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.11.0539 +0100]:
> Martin, I'd like for you to come in to #debian. Not for an hour or
> a few hours, but for a few weeks to see what it's like. We have
> consistently refused to support non-Debian distros for years,
> including knoppix and ubunt
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Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Saturday 10 December 2005 05:45 am, martin f krafft wrote:
>> also sprach Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.10.1358 +0100]:
>> > So they can go join #ubuntu. Honestly, not that hard. Type it
>> >
On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 01:41:49PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.0112 +0100]:
> > Ubuntu tries so hard to be Debian without actually contributing
> > back to Debian. Let them compare on their own channel.
> I can hardly imagine you actual
On Mon, 2005-12-12 at 13:41 +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> But your post makes it all the more clear that *a lot* of Debian
> people need to get the facts straight, and that a Debian vs. Ubuntu
> comparison on #debian is definitely not out of place.
My biggest surprise whas that the channel opera
also sprach Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.10.1943 +0100]:
> Wow, talk about self-defeating attitudes. Do you have a d-i patch
> handy to turn away all new users from Debian?
No, of course I don't. And I was hoping my comment would be read
with a grain of salt. d-i is massively cool and it
also sprach Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.12.0112 +0100]:
> Ubuntu tries so hard to be Debian without actually contributing
> back to Debian. Let them compare on their own channel.
I can hardly imagine you actually have substance to back up these
claims. Of course, if you as a DD refu
[Paul Johnson]
> If they're related to Ubuntu, they're primarily about Ubuntu, don't
> ask them in Debian. Debian didn't come from Ubuntu, after all, most
> people on Debian don't know or care about Ubuntu problems.
This is slightly exaggerated, as several of the problems experienced
and solved
Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ubuntu tries so hard to be Debian without actually contributing back to=20
> Debian. Let them compare on their own channel.
The above might variously be described as "not entirely accurate",
"wrong" or even "completely untrue".
--
Matthew Garrett | [EM
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