On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 12:02:03PM +0100, Ingo Jürgensmann wrote:
My concern is not that I can’t read his blog anymore on planet.d.o
(honestly, never read him), but how this issue has been addressed. As
others already wrote: it shouldn’t be left to a single DD to decide
whether or not to remove s
On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 04:14:35PM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
The fact is, Norbert's DD status has been removed, he's no longer a
Debian Developer, he no longer has a @debian.org email address, he no
longer has voting rights within the project, etc. It's not a
time-limited removal (despite A
On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 04:14:35PM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
> The fact is, Norbert's DD status has been removed, he's no longer a Debian
> Developer, he no longer has a @debian.org email address, he no longer has
> voting rights within the project, etc. It's not a time-limited removal
> (despi
Ingo Jürgensmann left as an exercise for the reader:
> I see many old DDs became inactive or stepped down as a DD in
> the past years, yet not many new DDs joining or being as
> active as the old DDs been in the past
for whatever it's worth, two proto-DDs are waiting on final
DAM keyring addition-
On donderdag 24 maart 2022 10:50:47 CET Dr. Bas Wijnen wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 05:07:06PM +0100, Diederik de Haas wrote:
> > On woensdag 23 maart 2022 14:05:57 CET Antonio Terceiro wrote:
> > > ¹ of course correlation is not causation, I am not saying the perceived
> > > growth is happenin
On 2022/03/24 15:02, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
Dr. Bas Wijnen - 24.03.22, 10:50:47 CET:
There was work to be done. It has been done. The result is that
Norbert was sanctioned. Please accept that and stop pretending that
the debate is still ongoing.
Just one thing: There is no pretending there.
Dr. Bas Wijnen - 24.03.22, 10:50:47 CET:
> There is work to be done. Uneasy work. But important to do,
> nonetheless.
>
> There was work to be done. It has been done. The result is that
> Norbert was sanctioned. Please accept that and stop pretending that
> the debate is still ongoing.
Just one t
On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 09:50:47AM +, Dr. Bas Wijnen wrote:
[...]
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 07:23:25AM +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 09:01:27PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > In my opinion it seems better to let it be [...]
> I understand this impulse and in my
Quoting Dr. Bas Wijnen (2022-03-24 10:50:47)
> This entire thread makes me worry quite a bit about the current state
> of Debian, so I feel the need to respond to several posts in it.
>
> Tl;dr: Debian should be a project where everyone can feel comfortable
> to contribute. That is not possible
This entire thread makes me worry quite a bit about the current state of
Debian, so I feel the need to respond to several posts in it.
Tl;dr: Debian should be a project where everyone can feel comfortable to
contribute. That is not possible if we allow bullying to stand unchallenged.
On Wed, Mar
Hi,
Some clarification is needed:
Wouter Verhelst wrote on 23/03/2022 at 14:45:50+0100:
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 09:35:18AM +0100, Gerardo Ballabio wrote:
>> I actually believe it would be quite problematic if any single DD were
>> allowed to take actions on another contributor based on their
On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 08:02:56AM +0900, Norbert Preining wrote:
> May I remind you that I am NOT banned from the project, but "ONLY"
> demoted to DM!
Yes, indeed; my mistake.
> Since my emails are not delivered to d-p, I ask you to revert your
> statement on d-p, since it is a lie.
No, it is n
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 03:45:50PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> Norbert was banned from Debian by the people who are delegated to make
> that decision. He was banned from contributing to, and communicating
> with, Debian.
It was pointed out to me (by multiple people) that the last part of this
No CC needed. Thanks.
Pierre-Elliott Bécue - 24.03.22, 00:34:25 CET:
> > I am astonished to see, again, how people here seem to project all
> > badness in the world onto a single former, cause expelled, Debian
> > developer. Especially one with whom I had zero problems with and one
> > who contrib
I was indeed missing the background. As I understand, it all happened
on -private, which I can't read. I actually learned about Norbert's
demotion from DD to DM (which would leave him able to post on Planet)
from a message on -publicity a few weeks ago, and I was completely
unaware that he had been
Hi,
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 1:32 PM Philip Hands wrote:
>
> I note that nobody in this discussion so far has tried to argue that
> we'll somehow be poorer for being less exposed to his writings, but only
> that some procedure might not have been followed properly.
That is because both sides are
Martin Steigerwald wrote on 23/03/2022 at 17:18:40+0100:
> Adam Borowski - 23.03.22, 16:46:48 CET:
>> On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 03:37:27PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> > You're not the first one with the same reaction, so here's why.
>> >
>> > Norbert publicly lies, writting he's not packaging
Christian Kastner wrote on 23/03/2022 at 23:17:04+0100:
> On 2022-03-23 21:27, Philip Hands wrote:
>> I note that nobody in this discussion so far has tried to argue that
>> we'll somehow be poorer for being less exposed to his writings
>
> It's not fair to dismiss his frequent KDE and TeX repo
Martina Ferrari wrote on 23/03/2022 at 19:01:02+0100:
> On 22/03/2022 23:37, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>>> Can we delete him from planet?
>>
>> Meh. If you want to do so, be my guest, but I fear this would be seen a
>> bit badly compared to the "gain" you expect from it.
>
> I saw this message
On 2022-03-23 21:27, Philip Hands wrote:
> I note that nobody in this discussion so far has tried to argue that
> we'll somehow be poorer for being less exposed to his writings
It's not fair to dismiss his frequent KDE and TeX reports like hat.
> but only that some procedure might not have been
Adam Borowski writes:
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 08:38:02AM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
>> > Can we delete him from planet?
>>
>> Any DD can do that... oh wait that includes me... done!
>
> I went bold and reverted this removal;
If you think Jonathan got it wrong, try persuading enough of the
On 16446 March 1977, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Can we delete him from planet?
Any DD can do that... oh wait that includes me... done!
I went bold and reverted this removal; the detailed reason why and the
Planet rules I believe Jonathan has breached are in the commit
message.
And you are wrong
On 22/03/2022 23:37, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>> Can we delete him from planet?
>
> Meh. If you want to do so, be my guest, but I fear this would be seen a
> bit badly compared to the "gain" you expect from it.
I saw this message yesterday, and left me thinking how nobody seems too
concerned
> There's no link between Jonathan being the current DPL ("has abused his
> powers")
I did not say "his powers as DPL".
-nik
On 2022-03-23 10 h 14, Dominik George wrote:
> While I agree that Jonathan has abused his powers and should not have removed
> anyone from planet on his own, your argumentation is toxic in itself.
We had this discussion a while ago when something similar happened on
Planet: every DD can remove a
Ulrike Uhlig - 23.03.22, 17:02:14 CET:
> On a sidenote, I would like to urge the people who did so in this
> thread to stop using the word "toxic" to describe that someone is
> being called out for bullying, abusive behavior, discriminatory, or
> (passive-)agressive remarks. This is victim reversal
Adam Borowski - 23.03.22, 16:46:48 CET:
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 03:37:27PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > You're not the first one with the same reaction, so here's why.
> >
> > Norbert publicly lies, writting he's not packaging in Debian "thanks
> > to the da-manager", why should we care? Qui
Hello,
On 23.03.22 15:44, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 02:51:10PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 08:38:02AM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
Can we delete him from planet?
Any DD can do that... oh wait that includes me... done!
I went bold and reverted t
In the same way Martin Shkreli can claim the state of New York has
stopped him from doing pharmaceutical research -- breaking the rules
results in consequences. They were the results of your own actions.
Blaming others is shirking responsibility.
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 11:51 AM Adam Borowski wro
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 03:37:27PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> You're not the first one with the same reaction, so here's why.
>
> Norbert publicly lies, writting he's not packaging in Debian "thanks to the
> da-manager", why should we care? Quite the opposite, isn't it normal to
> publicly deb
Hi Adam
On 2022/03/23 15:51, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 08:38:02AM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
Can we delete him from planet?
Any DD can do that... oh wait that includes me... done!
>
I went bold and reverted this removal; the detailed reason why and the
Planet rules I be
I was also very very surprised to hear we allow members removed
because of their toxic behavior still allowed to use project resources
to amplify the very things that got them removed in the first place.
No idea why we wouldn't have removed the blog of anyone expelled from
planet.d.o as part of th
On 3/23/22 09:35, Gerardo Ballabio wrote:
Thomas Goirand wrote:
Can we delete him from planet?
Why does this need to be brought to -project?
You're not the first one with the same reaction, so here's why.
Norbert publicly lies, writting he's not packaging in Debian "thanks to
the da-manage
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 02:51:10PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 08:38:02AM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
> > > Can we delete him from planet?
> >
> > Any DD can do that... oh wait that includes me... done!
>
> I went bold and reverted this removal; the detailed reason why
Hi,
> ... and if there was any doubt I could possibly vote you above NOTA, here it
> goes away. Continuing harassment of Norbert is not appropriate.
>
> The toxic environment remaining here must stop.
While I agree that Jonathan has abused his powers and should not have removed
anyone from pl
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 08:38:02AM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
> > Can we delete him from planet?
>
> Any DD can do that... oh wait that includes me... done!
I went bold and reverted this removal; the detailed reason why and the
Planet rules I believe Jonathan has breached are in the commit mes
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 09:35:18AM +0100, Gerardo Ballabio wrote:
> I actually believe it would be quite problematic if any single DD were
> allowed to take actions on another contributor based on their own
> judgment. That does include the DPL. §5.1.4 isn't applicable here,
> because there is some
On 2022-03-23 4:25 a.m., Jonathan Carter wrote:
> On 2022/03/23 09:37, Ingo Jürgensmann wrote:
>> So, are we now at a point where we ban people just because of some
>> silly remarks in their posts and dislikes from single other persons?
>
> No, but I don't want people to keep feeling dread and won
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 08:38:02AM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
> > Can we delete him from planet?
>
> Any DD can do that... oh wait that includes me... done!
... and if there was any doubt I could possibly vote you above NOTA, here it
goes away. Continuing harassment of Norbert is not appropri
Sorry, the first mail was accidently sent direct to Jonathan. my mistake.
Am 23.03.2022 um 09:25 schrieb Jonathan Carter :
> On 2022/03/23 09:37, Ingo Jürgensmann wrote:
>> So, are we now at a point where we ban people just because of some silly
>> remarks in their posts and dislikes from singl
* Jonathan Carter [2022-03-23 10:25]:
On 2022/03/23 09:37, Ingo Jürgensmann wrote:
So, are we now at a point where we ban people just because of some silly
remarks in their posts and dislikes from single other persons?
No, but I don't want people to keep feeling dread and wonder what he's
g
Am 23.03.2022 um 09:03 schrieb Martin Steigerwald :
>> So I leave it at stating my disagreement. I hope this much is still
>> allowed here.
[...]
> I consider large parts of Debian to be a toxic environment to me, where
> I always have to fear being attacked for just expressing my point of
> vie
On 2022/03/23 09:37, Ingo Jürgensmann wrote:
So, are we now at a point where we ban people just because of some silly
remarks in their posts and dislikes from single other persons?
No, but I don't want people to keep feeling dread and wonder what he's
going to say every time he blogs, and he'
Martin Steigerwald - 23.03.22, 08:54:12 CET:
> Jonathan Carter - 23.03.22, 07:38:02 CET:
> > On 2022/03/22 22:01, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > > In his latest post, Norbert wrote:
> […]
>
> > I agree that his posts aren't appropriate for planet (I didn't pay
> > close attention but noticed at least o
Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Can we delete him from planet?
Why does this need to be brought to -project? There is a team
responsible for managing planet.d.o. If you have issues with Norbert's
posts, write to pla...@debian.org .
Jonathan Carter wrote:
> Any DD can do that... oh wait that includes me..
Am 23.03.2022 um 07:38 schrieb Jonathan Carter :
> On 2022/03/22 22:01, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> In his latest post, Norbert wrote:
>> "most of my activity around Debian has come to a complete halt (Send your
>> thanks to da-mana...@debian.org!)"
>> I find it not acceptable because it's written a
Jonathan Carter - 23.03.22, 07:38:02 CET:
> On 2022/03/22 22:01, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > In his latest post, Norbert wrote:
[…]
> I agree that his posts aren't appropriate for planet (I didn't pay
> close attention but noticed at least one post recently where he
> blames politics for not being pa
Hi Thomas
On 2022/03/22 22:01, Thomas Goirand wrote:
In his latest post, Norbert wrote:
"most of my activity around Debian has come to a complete halt (Send
your thanks to da-mana...@debian.org!)"
I find it not acceptable because it's written as if da-manager are the
only persons responsibl
On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 09:01:27PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In his latest post, Norbert wrote:
Please note that I am a total outsider, so take this for what it's
worth.
In my opinion it seems better to let it be. Granted, Norbert's
behaviour comes across as resenful, which isn't ve
Thomas Goirand wrote on 22/03/2022 at 21:01:27+0100:
> Hi,
>
> In his latest post, Norbert wrote:
>
> "most of my activity around Debian has come to a complete halt (Send
> your thanks to da-mana...@debian.org!)"
>
> I find it not acceptable because it's written as if da-manager are the
> only p
Hi,
In his latest post, Norbert wrote:
"most of my activity around Debian has come to a complete halt (Send
your thanks to da-mana...@debian.org!)"
I find it not acceptable because it's written as if da-manager are the
only persons responsible for it. He of course didn't mention that he
app
51 matches
Mail list logo
