Re: [libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
Hi Paulo, oh, sorry to hear that :-( I hope you'll manage that, although I'm quite sure that this is a really bad situation (especially if it happens when being a student and having limited financial resources). So please let us / me know, whether we can help anyhow ... Cheers, Christoph Am Sonntag, den 20.03.2011, 16:35 -0300 schrieb Paulo José Amaro: > Hi Christoph, all > > Sorry for replying too late - also this is not the actual reply. But I need > to tell something bad... I don't know how, but my notebook's ethernet board > just busted, so I'm unable to access Internet from home, but just from > University - and my time here will be bery limited until I repare this [big] > problem. :-( > > By now, thank you very very very much for doing these additions and I'll be > back with a appropriate reply. I hope soon! :-P > -- > Paulo José O. Amaro > Computer Science student / UFSJ-MG-Brazil > Webdesigner / Linked E.J. > Design / LibreOffice > Blogger / CasaTwain.com > > > > 2011/3/16 Christoph Noack > > > Hi Paulo, all! > > > > Cool - thanks for the excellent stuff :-) I'm trying to add a bit more > > information for those who might be interested. > > > > Am Dienstag, den 15.03.2011, 21:42 -0300 schrieb Paulo José Amaro: > > > > > By the way, I finally started the wiki page about this: > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Writer_Status_Bar_Remaking > > > I've a doubt about the "Remaking", so if this word can be replaced by > > > another one more appropriated, don't think twice) > > > > I felt free to add a section to the wiki page that deals with: > > * Specifications that deal with the current status bar items > > * Help documents that explain the current behavior > > * Ideas that have been collected within the community (or that I > >knew of previous discussions with the OOo UX team members) > > > > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Writer_Status_Bar_Remaking#Requirements.2C_Specifications_and_Improvements > > > > Maybe this helps to e.g. reconsider some more items being only visible > > in certain cases. And if not, it nicely shows the complexity of the > > status bar topic ;-) > > > > Being unable to do more (today), that's it. > > > > Cheers, > > Christoph > > > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
Hi Christoph, all Sorry for replying too late - also this is not the actual reply. But I need to tell something bad... I don't know how, but my notebook's ethernet board just busted, so I'm unable to access Internet from home, but just from University - and my time here will be bery limited until I repare this [big] problem. :-( By now, thank you very very very much for doing these additions and I'll be back with a appropriate reply. I hope soon! :-P -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science student / UFSJ-MG-Brazil Webdesigner / Linked E.J. Design / LibreOffice Blogger / CasaTwain.com 2011/3/16 Christoph Noack > Hi Paulo, all! > > Cool - thanks for the excellent stuff :-) I'm trying to add a bit more > information for those who might be interested. > > Am Dienstag, den 15.03.2011, 21:42 -0300 schrieb Paulo José Amaro: > > > By the way, I finally started the wiki page about this: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Writer_Status_Bar_Remaking > > I've a doubt about the "Remaking", so if this word can be replaced by > > another one more appropriated, don't think twice) > > I felt free to add a section to the wiki page that deals with: > * Specifications that deal with the current status bar items > * Help documents that explain the current behavior > * Ideas that have been collected within the community (or that I >knew of previous discussions with the OOo UX team members) > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Writer_Status_Bar_Remaking#Requirements.2C_Specifications_and_Improvements > > Maybe this helps to e.g. reconsider some more items being only visible > in certain cases. And if not, it nicely shows the complexity of the > status bar topic ;-) > > Being unable to do more (today), that's it. > > Cheers, > Christoph > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
Hi Paulo, all! Cool - thanks for the excellent stuff :-) I'm trying to add a bit more information for those who might be interested. Am Dienstag, den 15.03.2011, 21:42 -0300 schrieb Paulo José Amaro: > By the way, I finally started the wiki page about this: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Writer_Status_Bar_Remaking > I've a doubt about the "Remaking", so if this word can be replaced by > another one more appropriated, don't think twice) I felt free to add a section to the wiki page that deals with: * Specifications that deal with the current status bar items * Help documents that explain the current behavior * Ideas that have been collected within the community (or that I knew of previous discussions with the OOo UX team members) http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Writer_Status_Bar_Remaking#Requirements.2C_Specifications_and_Improvements Maybe this helps to e.g. reconsider some more items being only visible in certain cases. And if not, it nicely shows the complexity of the status bar topic ;-) Being unable to do more (today), that's it. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
Hi Christoph, all, 2011/3/14 Christoph Noack > [...] > Oh, I have to thank you ... it's pure fun to see that much of the old > stuff can be useful (at the end). > No doubt it is terrible when great ideas get lost by the times... I'm glad you did restore these icons from the past. Oh, that can be solved. We already have word count functionality in > Writer, but it is rather unusable ... it presents the result in a modal > dialog. Grrr. > Actually? Never mind... (-: So it seems to make the development work to add it to status bar a lot easier! >From my point-of-view, it is not required to count the words > instantly ... there is no issue in waiting for several hundred > milliseconds until we can be sure the user is "idling". Concerning the > latter, I think most of the time people writing text is spend on > thinking but typing. So we just have to make sure that it is clear to > the user that the word count is incorrect (if LibO is re-counting). I'm > not sure, but I think Word works the same ... > > Example: >532 Characters (Document) >... user starts typing ... >532 Characters (Document) >... user stops typing ... >... system is re-calculating ... >561 Characters (Document) > [...] > You're right at all. It is not required to do instantly. Actually it could be easy to be implemented, so I'll include it in the step 2 of remaking of Status Bar. It's great! :-D By the way, I finally started the wiki page about this: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Writer_Status_Bar_Remaking I've a doubt about the "Remaking", so if this word can be replaced by another one more appropriated, don't think twice) [...] Definitively a god idea, but I think there is no need to hurry. > Instead, all, please also support Nik's work on the motif creation (I'm > hoping that somebody is compensating my lacking involvement *g*). > Oh... I'm not confident about it. I think I'm not the right person to help on the motif task. At least to creating a proposal. But I'm giving my comments and suggestions soon I can. > [...] Someone know a easy way to upload the HTML code and change it in > > a collaborative way (Like Etherpad or Google Docs was to text)? [...] > > Phew, I don't know ... anybody? > So... I did no discovers about how to do that. Then I choosed to use Dropbox, so I can share the folder with everyone that want to help editing the HTML and make proposals, in meantime showing the page to everyone publicly. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5107072/HTML%20mockups/Status-Bar-HTML-Version-Step-1.html Just to remember: It's just HTML and CSS, so if someone could help me with javascript (jQuery if it's possible) to improve menus and mplement state changes, I'll be glad! Now the next step is evaluating Status Bar items. I'll do some user tests here in university to validate the new item arrangement and make it justifiable from UX POV. *Bernhard*, I'd like to ask your help here, if you'll have time. But no hurry at all. :-D Have a great week, Design gentlemen, ~Paulo -- Paulo José O. Amaro Estudante de Ciência da Computação / UFSJ Webdesigner / Linked E.J. Blogueiro / CasaTwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
Hi Paulo, Rick, all :-) Am Montag, den 14.03.2011, 10:10 -0300 schrieb Paulo José Amaro: > Hi Christoph, Rick, all > > Thank you, Christoph! I'll include these buttons in the mockup. Oh, I have to thank you ... it's pure fun to see that much of the old stuff can be useful (at the end). > Rick, this is probably a great idea. I personally would like it a lot! > Although, It may implicates some language problems, like "how to count" > words in different languages, or even performance problems. Imagine the > delay to count each word when you past (or delete) a long text once. Of > course, i'm speculating about it. The real problems may be different, but > I'm sure it'll require a wide work. Oh, that can be solved. We already have word count functionality in Writer, but it is rather unusable ... it presents the result in a modal dialog. Grrr. >From my point-of-view, it is not required to count the words instantly ... there is no issue in waiting for several hundred milliseconds until we can be sure the user is "idling". Concerning the latter, I think most of the time people writing text is spend on thinking but typing. So we just have to make sure that it is clear to the user that the word count is incorrect (if LibO is re-counting). I'm not sure, but I think Word works the same ... Example: 532 Characters (Document) ... user starts typing ... 532 Characters (Document) ... user stops typing ... ... system is re-calculating ... 561 Characters (Document) Looking back, I think the largest hurdle ever was that people requested that it counts like Microsoft Word. There are a lot of people that get payed on a "word count" basis (e.g. translators), and the reference is Microsoft Word. Although I have been told that it does quite irritating stuff with regard to the punctuation ... :-) > We could join every ideas about the Status Bar change in a wiki page to make > it easier to know the current progress. I'm purposing make the changes in > small steps (or versions), where each step could be a "section" in the page, > so the developers can follow these steps in a efficient way. I think I'll be > able to create the page tonight, but all are invited to join. Definitively a god idea, but I think there is no need to hurry. Instead, all, please also support Nik's work on the motif creation (I'm hoping that somebody is compensating my lacking involvement *g*). > By the way, I did a HTML mockup, so will be simple to purpuse ideas and see > them "implemented". For now it's just CSS working, but I think we could > include some javascript (with jQuery) to make it interactive, eg. to create > functional menus. I can't upload it now because the FTP is blocked at > university. Someone know a easy way to upload the HTML code and change it in > a collaborative way (Like Etherpad or Google Docs was to text)? I'll try to > find a solution before upload it to wiki (that seems to be the hardest way > to work on it). Phew, I don't know ... anybody? Cheers, Christoph > 2011/3/13 Rick Hansson > > > Hi, > > > > > > I like this new grouping, Paulo. It make sense. > > > > > > Also I would prefer to have most of the items in the status bar turned off. > > The user should decide what goes in there. I would love to see a word count > > for example. This has probably been discussed before (I'm new here), so in > > that case ignore it. > > > > > > Rick > > > > 2011/3/12 Paulo José > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > I'm thinking about changing the LibreOffice Writer's Status Bar. Just a > > > little bit. :-P > > > > > > My motivation was the feeling of confusion that actually appear > > sometimes, > > > making me think about a new way to organize that information. > > > > > > I tried to capture some initial thinkings about the status bar, pointing > > > its issues. I perceived we can categorize its information in Page, > > Document > > > and Selection related: > > > > > > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Current-libreoffice-writer-statusbar.png > > > > > > For more information about the options of Writer's Status Bar, see the > > > LibreOffice's wiki page [1]. > > > > > > As you can see, there's some same category's information in different > > > places. An issue, by example, it's when the user wanna know the page > > number > > > when scrolling the page, so it needs look at the left side, while > > scrolling > > > at the right side of screen. > > > > > > I tried to achieve a better way to organize these informations, keeping a > > > logical relationship between them. In my proposal, the Document > > information > > > stay in the left site, the Page information on the right side and the > > > Selection information stay closer to the content, in the center. Also an > > > order that I tried to keep is "Edition" items before "Only-Information" > > > items. This is my proposal: > > > > > > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:New-libreoffice-writer-statusbar-v
Re: [libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
Hi Christoph, Rick, all Thank you, Christoph! I'll include these buttons in the mockup. Rick, this is probably a great idea. I personally would like it a lot! Although, It may implicates some language problems, like "how to count" words in different languages, or even performance problems. Imagine the delay to count each word when you past (or delete) a long text once. Of course, i'm speculating about it. The real problems may be different, but I'm sure it'll require a wide work. We could join every ideas about the Status Bar change in a wiki page to make it easier to know the current progress. I'm purposing make the changes in small steps (or versions), where each step could be a "section" in the page, so the developers can follow these steps in a efficient way. I think I'll be able to create the page tonight, but all are invited to join. By the way, I did a HTML mockup, so will be simple to purpuse ideas and see them "implemented". For now it's just CSS working, but I think we could include some javascript (with jQuery) to make it interactive, eg. to create functional menus. I can't upload it now because the FTP is blocked at university. Someone know a easy way to upload the HTML code and change it in a collaborative way (Like Etherpad or Google Docs was to text)? I'll try to find a solution before upload it to wiki (that seems to be the hardest way to work on it). Regards ~Paulo -- Paulo José O. Amaro Estudante de Ciência da Computação / UFSJ Webdesigner / Linked E.J. Blogueiro / CasaTwain.com 2011/3/13 Rick Hansson > Hi, > > > I like this new grouping, Paulo. It make sense. > > > Also I would prefer to have most of the items in the status bar turned off. > The user should decide what goes in there. I would love to see a word count > for example. This has probably been discussed before (I'm new here), so in > that case ignore it. > > > Rick > > 2011/3/12 Paulo José > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I'm thinking about changing the LibreOffice Writer's Status Bar. Just a > > little bit. :-P > > > > My motivation was the feeling of confusion that actually appear > sometimes, > > making me think about a new way to organize that information. > > > > I tried to capture some initial thinkings about the status bar, pointing > > its issues. I perceived we can categorize its information in Page, > Document > > and Selection related: > > > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Current-libreoffice-writer-statusbar.png > > > > For more information about the options of Writer's Status Bar, see the > > LibreOffice's wiki page [1]. > > > > As you can see, there's some same category's information in different > > places. An issue, by example, it's when the user wanna know the page > number > > when scrolling the page, so it needs look at the left side, while > scrolling > > at the right side of screen. > > > > I tried to achieve a better way to organize these informations, keeping a > > logical relationship between them. In my proposal, the Document > information > > stay in the left site, the Page information on the right side and the > > Selection information stay closer to the content, in the center. Also an > > order that I tried to keep is "Edition" items before "Only-Information" > > items. This is my proposal: > > > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:New-libreoffice-writer-statusbar-v1.png > > > > I'd like to hear what you think about it. It's just one of my ideas > > concerning the Status Bar, including changing the Insert and Selection > Mode > > text to icons, and evencreating a dynamic status bar, integrated with > > context toolbars. > > > > But in small steps we walk longer, does not? :-) By now, I think we could > > just reorganize the Status Bar and improve its communicability. :-) > > > > Regards, > > ~Paulo > > > > [1] - http://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Status_Bar > > > > -- > > Paulo José O. Amaro > > Computer Science Student > > Federal University of São João del-Rei > > WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior > > Blogger / casatwain.com > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
Hi, I like this new grouping, Paulo. It make sense. Also I would prefer to have most of the items in the status bar turned off. The user should decide what goes in there. I would love to see a word count for example. This has probably been discussed before (I'm new here), so in that case ignore it. Rick 2011/3/12 Paulo José > Hi everyone, > > I'm thinking about changing the LibreOffice Writer's Status Bar. Just a > little bit. :-P > > My motivation was the feeling of confusion that actually appear sometimes, > making me think about a new way to organize that information. > > I tried to capture some initial thinkings about the status bar, pointing > its issues. I perceived we can categorize its information in Page, Document > and Selection related: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Current-libreoffice-writer-statusbar.png > > For more information about the options of Writer's Status Bar, see the > LibreOffice's wiki page [1]. > > As you can see, there's some same category's information in different > places. An issue, by example, it's when the user wanna know the page number > when scrolling the page, so it needs look at the left side, while scrolling > at the right side of screen. > > I tried to achieve a better way to organize these informations, keeping a > logical relationship between them. In my proposal, the Document information > stay in the left site, the Page information on the right side and the > Selection information stay closer to the content, in the center. Also an > order that I tried to keep is "Edition" items before "Only-Information" > items. This is my proposal: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:New-libreoffice-writer-statusbar-v1.png > > I'd like to hear what you think about it. It's just one of my ideas > concerning the Status Bar, including changing the Insert and Selection Mode > text to icons, and evencreating a dynamic status bar, integrated with > context toolbars. > > But in small steps we walk longer, does not? :-) By now, I think we could > just reorganize the Status Bar and improve its communicability. :-) > > Regards, > ~Paulo > > [1] - http://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Status_Bar > > -- > Paulo José O. Amaro > Computer Science Student > Federal University of São João del-Rei > WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior > Blogger / casatwain.com > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
Hi Paulo! Am Samstag, den 12.03.2011, 13:59 -0300 schrieb Paulo José: > Hi Christoph, all, > > Yeah, It's that what I mean by icons replacing text buttons. Much better > to my eyes. The icons [1] for the Selecition Mode are actually great. > But I can't locate the Inser Mode icon or text. Was you proposing remove > it? If yes, I admit to like a lot the idea, since the Insert Mode > feedback is given by the Text Indicator (that thing marking the text > position, I'm not sure about the name) inline. Mmh, I don't really remember whether this had been my "plan" ... but this might still be one of the less important information. > I just wanna see your Selection Mode in a float menu showed by clicking > on the mouse's right button and swithing directly the mode by the > mouse's left button click. For another item, I drafted a drop-down (in the case of the statusbar, this might rather be a drop-up) menu. This could also be applied to the selection mode as well - although it will get harder to compare the different modes quickly. > Great additions! May you give the SVG file of these icons? I know... 3 > years are a while, but I had to ask. :-) And I had to upload ;-) http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DesignTeam_StatusBar_Idea_2007-11-04_ZoomZoom.svg Sorry, this file is in a real draft state with unused stuff inside ... Thanks for this nice discussion and the great ideas! Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
Hi Christoph, all, Yeah, It's that what I mean by icons replacing text buttons. Much better to my eyes. The icons [1] for the Selecition Mode are actually great. But I can't locate the Inser Mode icon or text. Was you proposing remove it? If yes, I admit to like a lot the idea, since the Insert Mode feedback is given by the Text Indicator (that thing marking the text position, I'm not sure about the name) inline. I just wanna see your Selection Mode in a float menu showed by clicking on the mouse's right button and swithing directly the mode by the mouse's left button click. Great additions! May you give the SVG file of these icons? I know... 3 years are a while, but I had to ask. :-) Cheers, ~Paulo [1] - https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/roouaftqkmja5yR0lALrAA?feat=directlink -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
Hi Johannes, hi Paulo! Very good idea ... I just briefly looked at it (because it was so well presented *g*) and thought the mockup below support this discussion. During the zoom slider rework, I found some of the information in the status bar hard to grasp. I just reworked the "visual representation", but not the grouping ... and it also doesn't mean that it does make sense ... it is already more than 3 years old: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/roouaftqkmja5yR0lALrAA?feat=directlink Cheers, Christoph Am Samstag, den 12.03.2011, 10:47 +0100 schrieb Johannes Bausch: > 2011/3/12 Paulo José > > > > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:New-libreoffice-writer-statusbar-v1.png > > +1 > > It really looks more organized that way. > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
2011/3/12 Paulo José > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:New-libreoffice-writer-statusbar-v1.png +1 It really looks more organized that way. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Status Bar changes
Hi everyone, I'm thinking about changing the LibreOffice Writer's Status Bar. Just a little bit. :-P My motivation was the feeling of confusion that actually appear sometimes, making me think about a new way to organize that information. I tried to capture some initial thinkings about the status bar, pointing its issues. I perceived we can categorize its information in Page, Document and Selection related: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Current-libreoffice-writer-statusbar.png For more information about the options of Writer's Status Bar, see the LibreOffice's wiki page [1]. As you can see, there's some same category's information in different places. An issue, by example, it's when the user wanna know the page number when scrolling the page, so it needs look at the left side, while scrolling at the right side of screen. I tried to achieve a better way to organize these informations, keeping a logical relationship between them. In my proposal, the Document information stay in the left site, the Page information on the right side and the Selection information stay closer to the content, in the center. Also an order that I tried to keep is "Edition" items before "Only-Information" items. This is my proposal: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:New-libreoffice-writer-statusbar-v1.png I'd like to hear what you think about it. It's just one of my ideas concerning the Status Bar, including changing the Insert and Selection Mode text to icons, and evencreating a dynamic status bar, integrated with context toolbars. But in small steps we walk longer, does not? :-) By now, I think we could just reorganize the Status Bar and improve its communicability. :-) Regards, ~Paulo [1] - http://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Status_Bar -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
