On 9/27/23 04:43, Peter Robinson wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 6:24 AM Remi Collet wrote:
>>
>> Le 26/09/2023 à 19:32, Carlos O'Donell a écrit :
>>
In version 8.3 (F40) we'll includes the UTC definition
in our patch to use system tzdata, UTC being use
as the fallback value.
>>>
>
On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 6:24 AM Remi Collet wrote:
>
> Le 26/09/2023 à 19:32, Carlos O'Donell a écrit :
>
> >> In version 8.3 (F40) we'll includes the UTC definition
> >> in our patch to use system tzdata, UTC being use
> >> as the fallback value.
> >
> > I'm curious; what does this patch look lik
Le 26/09/2023 à 19:32, Carlos O'Donell a écrit :
In version 8.3 (F40) we'll includes the UTC definition
in our patch to use system tzdata, UTC being use
as the fallback value.
I'm curious; what does this patch look like?
(trivial) patch to our system tzdata patch attached
In short, if file
On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 4:39 AM Vít Ondruch wrote:
> Dne 22. 09. 23 v 16:01 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek napsal(a):
> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 10:43:05AM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2233281#c3
> >>
> >> This probably answers my question. So heads up t
On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 4:52 AM Remi Collet wrote:
>
> Le 25/09/2023 à 10:38, Vít Ondruch a écrit :
> >
> > Dne 22. 09. 23 v 16:01 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek napsal(a):
> >> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 10:43:05AM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> >>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2233281#c3
>
Le 25/09/2023 à 10:38, Vít Ondruch a écrit :
Dne 22. 09. 23 v 16:01 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek napsal(a):
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 10:43:05AM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2233281#c3
This probably answers my question. So heads up to others.
Dne 22. 09.
Dne 22. 09. 23 v 16:01 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek napsal(a):
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 10:43:05AM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2233281#c3
This probably answers my question. So heads up to others.
Dne 22. 09. 23 v 10:39 Vít Ondruch napsal(a):
Was this i
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 10:43:05AM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2233281#c3
>
> This probably answers my question. So heads up to others.
>
> Dne 22. 09. 23 v 10:39 Vít Ondruch napsal(a):
> > Was this implemented in past days? I am asking because this FTB
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2233281#c3
This probably answers my question. So heads up to others.
Vít
Dne 22. 09. 23 v 10:39 Vít Ondruch napsal(a):
Was this implemented in past days? I am asking because this FTBFS
suggest so:
https://koschei.fedoraproject.org/package/rubyge
Was this implemented in past days? I am asking because this FTBFS
suggest so:
https://koschei.fedoraproject.org/package/rubygem-timecop?collection=f40
Vít
Dne 26. 06. 23 v 17:54 Aoife Moloney napsal(a):
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AllowRemovalOfTzdata
This document represents a
On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 11:54 AM Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Jonathan Wakely said:
> > From the change proposal:
> >
> > == Feedback ==
> > In June of 2021, we proposed creating a new tzdata sub-package that
> > would only provide the UTC timezone. As part of the discussion around
>
On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 at 11:50, Jonathan Wakely wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 at 16:38, Ian Pilcher wrote:
> > Rather than expecting runtimes and applications to be fixed to work
> > without any timezone information, perhaps the best way forward would be
> > to create a tzdata-utc (and similar Java
Once upon a time, Jonathan Wakely said:
> From the change proposal:
>
> == Feedback ==
> In June of 2021, we proposed creating a new tzdata sub-package that
> would only provide the UTC timezone. As part of the discussion around
> this proposal, it was recommended that we completely remove tzdat
On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 at 16:38, Ian Pilcher wrote:
> Rather than expecting runtimes and applications to be fixed to work
> without any timezone information, perhaps the best way forward would be
> to create a tzdata-utc (and similar Java and Python packages).
>
> (Sorry if this has already been sugge
On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 at 11:39, Ian Pilcher wrote:
> On 6/30/23 10:22, Jonathan Wakely wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 at 19:10, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> >> We would also need to ensure UTC work even without tzdata installed.
> >
> > Yes, that would be useful.
> >
> > Although IMHO even that seems lik
On 6/30/23 10:22, Jonathan Wakely wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 at 19:10, Miro Hrončok wrote:
We would also need to ensure UTC work even without tzdata installed.
Yes, that would be useful.
Although IMHO even that seems like a nice-to-have not an absolute
showstopper. Most containerized workloa
On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 at 19:10, Miro Hrončok wrote:
>
> Hello Patsy,
>
> On 26. 06. 23 17:54, Aoife Moloney wrote:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AllowRemovalOfTzdata
> >
> > == Summary ==
> > Allow the removal of tzdata especially on containers in order to minimize
> > size.
> > ...
>
On 29. 06. 23 17:57, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
On 6/29/23 00:44, Miro Hrončok wrote:
On 29. 06. 23 0:31, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
Can we allow users to create a minimal installation by hand, while still
complying
with PEP-615 for default installs?
The size savings for a minimal container that is U
On 6/28/23 19:54, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> Because Recommends and Supplements are installed by default, we need
> to be careful and use them sparingly, only when it really makes sense
> for some package to be pulled in for almost all users of another
> package. Thus far, Fedora and RHEL have done
On 6/29/23 00:44, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> On 29. 06. 23 0:31, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
>> Can we allow users to create a minimal installation by hand, while still
>> complying
>> with PEP-615 for default installs?
>>
>> The size savings for a minimal container that is UTC-only would be quite
>> valua
On 29. 06. 23 0:31, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
Can we allow users to create a minimal installation by hand, while still
complying
with PEP-615 for default installs?
The size savings for a minimal container that is UTC-only would be quite
valuable
for Fedora minimal containers.
Yes, but see the re
On Thu, Jun 29 2023 at 12:24:23 AM +0200, Fabio Valentini
wrote:
Thanks for the clarification, though this is only partially
reassuring:
I'm not sure how this accounts for the fact that there are some
situations in which weak dependencies are *not installed at all*.
Most notably, they are no
On 6/28/23 18:24, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 12:15 AM Carlos O'Donell
> wrote:
>>
>> On 6/26/23 16:12, Fabio Valentini wrote:
>>> So all this considered, I'm not sure whether this change is
>>> actually worth it, if tzdata databases of some form will likely
>>> be pulled int
On 6/26/23 14:14, Peter Robinson wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 7:10 PM Miro Hrončok wrote:
>> *PEP 615 – Support for the IANA Time Zone Database in the Standard Library*
>> says:
>>
>>
>> """
>> Python distributors are encouraged to ensure that time zone data is installed
>
> The wording of "
On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 12:15 AM Carlos O'Donell wrote:
>
> On 6/26/23 16:12, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> > So all this considered, I'm not sure whether this change is actually
> > worth it, if tzdata databases of some form will likely be pulled into
> > installs anyway.
>
> Quoting the "Weak Depende
On 6/26/23 14:40, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> Yep, this is the case for rubygem-tzinfo. It would deserve recommends
> at minimum, because in theory, the tzdata can be suplied by
> tzinfo-data gem instead.
Thank you for adding the `Recommends: tzdata`!
--
Cheers,
Carlos.
On 6/26/23 16:12, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> So all this considered, I'm not sure whether this change is actually
> worth it, if tzdata databases of some form will likely be pulled into
> installs anyway.
Quoting the "Weak Dependencies Policy":
"Weak dependencies allow smaller minimal installations
On 6/27/23 05:38, Jiri Vanek wrote:
> JDK will behave similarly. We ave (small) advantage that we have also
> in-jdk-bundled tzdata. However fallback in case of removed system
> tzdata is not automatic, and requires human touch. Long ago we have a
> patch in jdk which looked to system tzdata - if
On 6/28/23 03:44, Miroslav Lichvar wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 04:54:00PM +0100, Aoife Moloney wrote:
>> * Other developers: Some packages need to change their spec files from
>> `Requires: tzdata` to `Recommends: tzdata`. It would be beneficial if
>> all packages switched in this way, but it
Dne 27. 06. 23 v 10:13 Vít Ondruch napsal(a):
Dne 26. 06. 23 v 22:12 Fabio Valentini napsal(a):
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 8:40 PM Vít Ondruch wrote:
Dne 26. 06. 23 v 20:24 Fabio Valentini napsal(a):
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 8:10 PM Miro Hrončok
wrote:
(snip)
---
The current problem with
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 04:54:00PM +0100, Aoife Moloney wrote:
> * Other developers: Some packages need to change their spec files from
> `Requires: tzdata` to `Recommends: tzdata`. It would be beneficial if
> all packages switched in this way, but it is not required. Supporting
> optional tzdata i
On 6/27/23 02:00, Miro Hrončok wrote:
On 26. 06. 23 20:24, Fabio Valentini wrote:
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 8:10 PM Miro Hrončok wrote:
(snip)
---
The current problem with Python without tzdata is:
===
>>> from zoneinfo
Hi Miro,
Very much appreciate the feedback. Please see my responses below.
Thank you,
Patsy
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 2:09 PM Miro Hrončok wrote:
> Hello Patsy,
>
> On 26. 06. 23 17:54, Aoife Moloney wrote:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AllowRemovalOfTzdata
> >
> > == Summary ==
> >
JDK will behave similarly. We ave (small) advantage that we have also
in-jdk-bundled tzdata. However fallback in case of removed system
tzdata is not automatic, and requires human touch. Long ago we have a
patch in jdk which looked to system tzdata - if they were present,
they were used. If not,
On 26. 06. 23 20:24, Fabio Valentini wrote:
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 8:10 PM Miro Hrončok wrote:
(snip)
---
The current problem with Python without tzdata is:
===
>>> from zoneinfo import ZoneInfo
>>> ZoneInfo("Europe
Dne 26. 06. 23 v 22:12 Fabio Valentini napsal(a):
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 8:40 PM Vít Ondruch wrote:
Dne 26. 06. 23 v 20:24 Fabio Valentini napsal(a):
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 8:10 PM Miro Hrončok wrote:
(snip)
---
The current problem with Python without tzdata is:
==
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 8:40 PM Vít Ondruch wrote:
>
>
> Dne 26. 06. 23 v 20:24 Fabio Valentini napsal(a):
> > On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 8:10 PM Miro Hrončok wrote:
> > (snip)
> >
> >> ---
> >>
> >> The current problem with Python without tzdata is:
> >>
> >> ===
Dne 26. 06. 23 v 20:24 Fabio Valentini napsal(a):
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 8:10 PM Miro Hrončok wrote:
(snip)
---
The current problem with Python without tzdata is:
===
>>> from zoneinfo import ZoneInfo
>>> ZoneInfo("Eur
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 8:10 PM Miro Hrončok wrote:
>
(snip)
> ---
>
> The current problem with Python without tzdata is:
>
> ===
> >>> from zoneinfo import ZoneInfo
> >>> ZoneInfo("Europe/Prague")
> Traceback (most recent cal
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 7:10 PM Miro Hrončok wrote:
>
> Hello Patsy,
>
> On 26. 06. 23 17:54, Aoife Moloney wrote:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AllowRemovalOfTzdata
> >
> > == Summary ==
> > Allow the removal of tzdata especially on containers in order to minimize
> > size.
> > ...
Hello Patsy,
On 26. 06. 23 17:54, Aoife Moloney wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AllowRemovalOfTzdata
== Summary ==
Allow the removal of tzdata especially on containers in order to minimize size.
...
In order for this to work, we need packages that use tzdata at run
time to switch
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AllowRemovalOfTzdata
This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
by the Fedora Engineering Steering Com
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