[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163895

b.  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #10 from b.  ---
In the end of the day all bin-FP accuracy / rounding issues can be summarized
under "bin-FP issues", but it is better to distinguish the differences between
them such as cancellation, approximated representation, fit-in rounding ... and
to treat them appropriately.  

Similarly, you can group all "libreOffice calc tries prettyfying and can't get
it to work consistently" issues under "unsuccessful prettyfying", which is Mike
Kaganski's level of "There is nothing exact in floating-point calculations in
Calc, ..." ( https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154792 ), but
that does little to change / improve anything.  

This bug is very special or exactly the incontinence to evaluate values when
entering into a table as 16-digit exact, but when writing into a file to save
only 15-digit exact. It only takes a few such inconsistency points and
persistent adherence to them to very effectively block coherent calculations.  

( Partly ) castrating an already weak system (IEEE 754) in order to improve it
is a questionable strategy and leads to even weaker results.

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[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163895

Rainer Bielefeld Retired  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14
   ||0695

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[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163895

--- Comment #9 from Rainer Bielefeld Retired  
---
(In reply to Rainer Bielefeld Retired from comment #8)
The FAQ answer might explain why it's impossible to calculate with more than 15
decimals? 

I'm still rather worried.

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[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163895

--- Comment #8 from Rainer Bielefeld Retired  
---
Reason of the problem might be the same as for 
"Bug 150635 - Numbers larger than 15 digits cannot be FORMATED as TEXT"
as explained in 
"Frequently asked questions - Calc: Accuracy problem"
  
❓

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[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163895

--- Comment #7 from Rainer Bielefeld Retired  
---
Created attachment 201508
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=201508&action=edit
screencast

shows that input of tailing "4" in input line influences calculation result,
but the "4"is invisible in input line and cell.

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[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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Rainer Bielefeld Retired  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||LibreOffice@bielefeldundbus
   ||s.de

--- Comment #6 from Rainer Bielefeld Retired  
---
reporter's strange, unexpected observations (with tailing "4") for me are 
REPRODUCIBLE with Installation of Version:25.2.4.3 (X86_64)
Build ID: d5143c058bfdc0f5674c3e0a88fae2f9cbe28a0a
CPU threads: 12; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 19045; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: de-DE (de_DE); UI: en-US; Theme: Automatic Colibre
Calc: threaded, My normal User Profile

Still REPRODUCIBLE with Server Installation of Version: 25.8.0.0.alpha0+
(X86_64)
Build ID: 8049d3f2345d5e6ead9fcb7b84f376fc84b82706
CPU threads: 12; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 19045; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: de-DE (de_DE); UI: en-US; Theme: Automatic Colibre
Calc: threaded 
Special User Test Profile for testing, Copy from my 25.2.3.2 Normal Use Profile

But currently I haven't understood all that good enough to decide whether we
have a bug here or not.

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[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163895

--- Comment #5 from b.  ---
hello @ Nicole, 

thanks for checking,  
'Precision as shown' is off here,  
issue is quite easy, entering 0.999 in a cell without the '4' and
that cell times 6 in another cell produces 5.99. 
Calc stores the original input of 0.9994 in the file without the 4
( inspect the content.xml inside the ods file, and stores '6' as text for the
result cell.  
If new calculating with the stored 0.999 it will produce
5.99, _assume_ you have some setting like 'recalc on load' off?  
Pls. check and / or pls. try recalc with F9, ctrl-shift-F9 or similar.  
If you still cant repro it could be suspected your system stores more digits,
pls. try to check with an unzipper and xml viewer. 

:-)

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[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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--- Comment #4 from Nicole A.  ---
Created attachment 197728
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=197728&action=edit
Screenshot of Precision as shown

Hello,

Thank you for providing the sample document and detailed instructions of the
issue you are experiencing. I went ahead and followed your instructions and I
still was not seeing the result of 5.99 but was still showing as 6
even when saving and closing and re-opening the .ods document.

However, in the LibreOffice Calc settings, I did not have the "Precision as
shown" setting enabled. Once I updated the setting to be enabled for "Precision
as shown" and then followed your instructions again, it did show the
5.99 and not the expected result 6.

I recommend you check if you have the "Precision as shown" enabled and if so,
disable it and try your test again.

I have attached a screenshot of the "Precision as shown" setting.

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[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163895

--- Comment #3 from b.  ---
hello @ Nicole,  

thanks for checking,  

1. enter 0.9994 in cell A4, 
2. see display 0.999 without trailing '4',  
3. enter '=6 * A4' in A5,  
4. see result '6' in A5,  
5. save file as *.ods,  
6. close sheet,  
7. load file,  
8. see result in A5 changed to 5.99,  
9. assume value in A4 changed to 0.999, without the '4',  
10. problem: differences between construction-time and run-time,  
11. hard to understand, not user friendly,  
12. wish: consistent behavior, either  
12a. keep precision in file save and load, or  
12b. truncate on input rather than file save, think that's what Excel doe's.

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[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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b.  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDINFO|UNCONFIRMED
 Ever confirmed|1   |0

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[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163895

--- Comment #2 from b.  ---
Created attachment 197720
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=197720&action=edit
file with result 5.99

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[Bug 163895] UI: FILESAVE: falsifying values, inconsistency after save and reload,

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163895

Nicole A.  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||nalsa...@csumb.edu
 Ever confirmed|0   |1
 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEEDINFO

--- Comment #1 from Nicole A.  ---
Hello,

Thank you for reporting the bug. Please attach a sample document, as this makes
it easier for us to verify the bug. 
I have set the bug's status to 'NEEDINFO'. Please change it back to
'UNCONFIRMED' once the requested document is provided.
(Please note that the attachment will be public; remove any sensitive
information before attaching it. 
See  for help on how to do
so.)

Also, I have tried to reproduce the bug with the steps provided but was not
able to reproduce it. What format were you saving the file? I saved the file in
.ods format. Please attach the document where you are seeing it not keep the
trailing 4 and multiplying by 6 = 5.99

It may be helpful if you provide more detailed steps as well.

Tested with: LibreOffice version 24.8.2.1 (current version) and in 25.2.0.0
(master build)

Master Build

Version: 25.2.0.0.alpha0
TinderBox: MacOSX-aarch64@tb92-TDF, Branch:master, Time: 2024-11-06 05:23:09

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