LS Call for votes, October 1999

[pclark]

1 vote for number four.Ken 




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES OCTOBER 1999

[Peter O'Neil]

At 08:57 AM 9/28/99 +0200, you wrote:

I vote for #3.

>3) (Diana)
>
>Pirsig says that the four levels of the MOQ are "all there is".
>But if each level evolved out of the one beneath it, then
>is it possible for a fifth level to emerge? If so what are the
>possible candidates for this level and how would we recognize
>it?




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES OCTOBER 1999

[Marco]

# 3. 

Ciao!

> 
> 3) (Diana)
> 
> Pirsig says that the four levels of the MOQ are "all there is". But if
> each level evolved
> out of the one beneath it, then is it possible for a fifth level to
> emerge? If so what
> are the possible candidates for this level and how would we recognize
> it?
> 
> 
> 




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES OCTOBER 1999

[Horse]

Number 3


> 3) (Diana)
> 
> Pirsig says that the four levels of the MOQ are "all there is". But if
> each level evolved out of the one beneath it, then is it possible for a
> fifth level to emerge? If so what are the possible candidates for this
> level and how would we recognize it?


Horse




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES OCTOBER 1999

[SixToedCat]

Hi everyone!
#3, please.  Although I have resolved to not post until after I have 
completed a full rereading of Lila, I am so enthused about this prospective 
topic that I just had to vote.  I have been contemplating the possibility of 
the existence of a "fifth level" and would be very interested to hear other 
people's thoughts on the subject.
>^,,^< SixToes




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES OCTOBER 1999

[Diana McPartlin]

No 3 please

Diana


>Let the voting begin!
>
>1) (Glenn Bradford)
>
>Did Columbus create the new world? It was new afterall, wasn't it??
>
>
>2) (Marco)
>
>Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, chapter 14.
>
>" This divorce of art from technology is completely unnatural. It's just
>that it's gone on
>so long you have to be an archeologist to find out where the two
>separated. Rotisserie
>assembly is actually a long-lost branch of sculpture, so divorced from
>its roots by
>centuries of intellectual wrong turns that just to associate the two
>sounds ludicrous."
>
>Seen in the light of MOQ, why art and technology divorced? What is
>technology today
>(especially information technology) ? Art without meaning, or ?
>
>
>3) (Diana)
>
>Pirsig says that the four levels of the MOQ are "all there is". But if
>each level evolved
>out of the one beneath it, then is it possible for a fifth level to
>emerge? If so what
>are the possible candidates for this level and how would we recognize
>it?
>
>
>4) (Diana)
>
>Leaving Quality undefined is a central tenet of the MOQ. We should
>work towards clearly explaining why this is so and exploring the
>arguments both for and against this position. Sarah: "Are you teaching
>Quality this quarter?" "Yes..." - You know what it is. No you don't. Yes
>you do 
>
>
>5) (Diana)
>
>In order to bring a pragmatic element into the discussion, state how
>Lila
>has affected our lives from a personal perspective?
>
>
>6) (DLT)
>
>COMPARE AND CONTRAST POPPER'S METAPHYSICAL THEORIES WITH THE MOQ WITH A
>FOCUS
>ON THE WORKING,EMERGENCE, AND RELATIONSHIP OF THE INTELECTUAL LEVEL WITH
>OTHER 
>LEVELS.
>
>
>
>   Magnus




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES OCTOBER 1999

[David L Thomas]

LS

ONE vote for six

DLT




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES OCTOBER 1999

[Magnus Berg]

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Ok

Let the voting begin!

1) (Glenn Bradford)

Did Columbus create the new world? It was new afterall, wasn't it??


2) (Marco)

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, chapter 14.

" This divorce of art from technology is completely unnatural. It's just
that it's gone on
so long you have to be an archeologist to find out where the two
separated. Rotisserie
assembly is actually a long-lost branch of sculpture, so divorced from
its roots by
centuries of intellectual wrong turns that just to associate the two
sounds ludicrous."

Seen in the light of MOQ, why art and technology divorced? What is
technology today
(especially information technology) ? Art without meaning, or ?


3) (Diana)

Pirsig says that the four levels of the MOQ are "all there is". But if
each level evolved
out of the one beneath it, then is it possible for a fifth level to
emerge? If so what
are the possible candidates for this level and how would we recognize
it?


4) (Diana)

Leaving Quality undefined is a central tenet of the MOQ. We should
work towards clearly explaining why this is so and exploring the
arguments both for and against this position. Sarah: "Are you teaching
Quality this quarter?" "Yes..." - You know what it is. No you don't. Yes
you do 


5) (Diana)

In order to bring a pragmatic element into the discussion, state how
Lila
has affected our lives from a personal perspective?


6) (DLT)

COMPARE AND CONTRAST POPPER'S METAPHYSICAL THEORIES WITH THE MOQ WITH A
FOCUS
ON THE WORKING,EMERGENCE, AND RELATIONSHIP OF THE INTELECTUAL LEVEL WITH
OTHER 
LEVELS.



Magnus

 
 


-
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES SEPTEMBER 99

[Taner Akdeniz]

I vote for #2.

MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES SEPTEMBER 99

[John Boone]

I vote for topic #1.

-John


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES SEPTEMBER 99

[Cory Ramage]

I would like to cast my vote for #6 please.

Thank you.

Cory

__
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES SEPTEMBER 99

[B. Skutvik]

> Squad
> Time to cast your votes. Pls reply to this post stating your choice from the 
> suggestions below. You've got one vote each, and remember even if 
> you suggested one of these topics you still have to form


My vote goes to # 2.

Bo


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

LS Call for votes-Sept 99

[pclark]

No. 2

Clark


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES SEPTEMBER 99

[Erik de Vries]

 
I will vote for nr. 2

(I'm a newcomer, thanks for having me on the squad)

Erik de Vries


Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com
Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES SEPTEMBER 99

[Marco]

I vote number 2. (Bodvar Skutvik)

Marco.


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES SEPTEMBER 99

[Avid Anand]

1
and don't forget to be gentle
Avid
icq 6598359

- Original Message -
From: Diana McPartlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sonntag, 29. August 1999 04:24
Subject: LS CALL FOR VOTES SEPTEMBER 99


> Squad
>
> Time to cast your votes. Pls reply to this post stating your choice from
the suggestions below. You've got one vote each, and remember even if you
suggested one of these topics you still have to formally vote for it.
>
> Voting closes at 24:00 GMT on 31 Aug
>
> tks
>
> Diana
>
> --
-
>
>
> 1. (Avid Anand)
>
> My suggested topic is "WHAT IS THE BEST FORM OF A SPQ [Static Quality
Pattern]". As we know Pirsig makes the primal cut between SQ and DQ. However
immersed as we still are in old SOM, we continue to think in its terms. It
is hard
> for us to see/imagine/feel the building stones of MoQ, it cannot be
subjects and object, but it should somehow contain them, but how? What is
the best "brick" [SPQ] to build MoQ from? How does it reflect the primary of
the experience of quality? How does this "brick" [SPQ] relate to the 4
layers?
>
>
> 2. (Bodvar Skutvik)
>
> Seen in the light of the MOQ, what is it that is described in the last
part of ZMM  (The Greeks). Is it the emergence of SOM, the"coming of age" of
the Intellectual level, or...?
>
>
> 3. (Kevin Sanchez)
>
>  i suggest we discuss pragmatic implementations of the metaphysics of
quality in the thinking space of the social/political + specifically, how
does it concieve.of/ operationalize social agency? and how does it approach
matters of (governmental?) policy? - pirisigs' works have much to contribute
to philosophies of laws, revolution(aries), economics, free
will.vs.determinism, etc. which have tremendous implications for
policy-making + let us systematize these meandering (?) political thoughts
into one style of thinking + (warning: i'm not suggesting specific stances
on political matters; only specific ways of concieving/analyizing/valuing
political questions)
>
>
> 4. (Jonathan Marder)
>
> "Lila" is Hinduism's dance of the divine.
> "Lilith" is a mythical temptress (Babylonian and Hebrew mythology)
>
> Rigel and Capela are both ancient names given to stars (the atsronomical
type, not celebraties).
>
> Is Pirsig deliberately alluding to ancient myths? Are there more of them
hiding in his novels?
>
>
>
> --
-
>
>
> MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

RE: LS CALL FOR VOTES SEPTEMBER 99

[David Buchanan]

> -Original Message-
> From: Diana McPartlin [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, August 28, 1999 7:24 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:      LS CALL FOR VOTES SEPTEMBER 99
> 
> I vote for #2. Thanks. David B.
> 
> 2. (Bodvar Skutvik)
> Seen in the light of the MOQ, what is it that is described in the last
> part of ZMM  (The Greeks). Is it the emergence of SOM, the"coming of
> age" of the Intellectual level, or...?
> 
> 
> 
> MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES SEPTEMBER 99

[Diana McPartlin]

Squad

Time to cast your votes. Pls reply to this post stating your choice from the 
suggestions below. You've got one vote each, and remember even if you suggested one of 
these topics you still have to formally vote for it. 

Voting closes at 24:00 GMT on 31 Aug

tks

Diana

---


1. (Avid Anand)

My suggested topic is "WHAT IS THE BEST FORM OF A SPQ [Static Quality Pattern]". As we 
know Pirsig makes the primal cut between SQ and DQ. However immersed as we still are 
in old SOM, we continue to think in its terms. It is hard
for us to see/imagine/feel the building stones of MoQ, it cannot be subjects and 
object, but it should somehow contain them, but how? What is the best "brick" [SPQ] to 
build MoQ from? How does it reflect the primary of the experience of quality? How does 
this "brick" [SPQ] relate to the 4 layers?


2. (Bodvar Skutvik)

Seen in the light of the MOQ, what is it that is described in the last part of ZMM  
(The Greeks). Is it the emergence of SOM, the"coming of age" of the Intellectual 
level, or...?


3. (Kevin Sanchez)

 i suggest we discuss pragmatic implementations of the metaphysics of quality in the 
thinking space of the social/political + specifically, how does it concieve.of/ 
operationalize social agency? and how does it approach matters of (governmental?) 
policy? - pirisigs' works have much to contribute to philosophies of laws, 
revolution(aries), economics, free will.vs.determinism, etc. which have tremendous 
implications for policy-making + let us systematize these meandering (?) political 
thoughts into one style of thinking + (warning: i'm not suggesting specific stances on 
political matters; only specific ways of concieving/analyizing/valuing political 
questions)


4. (Jonathan Marder)

"Lila" is Hinduism's dance of the divine.
"Lilith" is a mythical temptress (Babylonian and Hebrew mythology)

Rigel and Capela are both ancient names given to stars (the atsronomical type, not 
celebraties).

Is Pirsig deliberately alluding to ancient myths? Are there more of them hiding in his 
novels?



---


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS; Call for votes.

[Jonathan B. Marder]

> No. 3
>
Me too,
Jonathan



MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - August 1999

[Denis Poisson]

Hi, 

Sorry for being a bit reclusive this month but I had tons of work for my
project, so I didn't really have the time to think further about the
subject of self and soul. 

I thank Bodvar for re-posting my subject, and I vote for it (#2), even
though it seems it won't be elected this month... well, we'll see...

Hope you're doing well

Denis


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES - August 1999

[Horse]

Hi Folks

My vote goes to No. 2

If DNA is the "machine code" between the inorganic and the 
biological, what's the "machine code" between the biological and the 
social? Between the social and the intellect (mythos? language?) 
How do they work?


Horse


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES - AUGUST 1999

[David Buchanan]

Gotta vote for #3
DMB


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - August 1999

[Johannes Volmert]

Hello Squad,

May I introduce: ...-No I don't! Far more important, who I am is what I think,
I believe. Besides that it is uncommon to do so, on this site. Although I'm
quite eager to know what the members of the lilasquad do in their everyday
life, I must admit. Just one thing: I'm german and therefore, because I am not
a native speaker, my articles maybe a little clumsy sometimes. I beg your
pardon for that. Hope my thoughts are adequate though.

My vote is:  No. 3)
I think this is the center of Pirsigs works, and it seems to me, that he feels
vague about this himself.

JoVo






MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

LS; Call for votes.

[Clark]

No. 3

Ken Clark


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - August 1999

[Magnus Berg]

I vote for number 2

> 2) DENIS POISSON (VIA BODVAR):
> 
> If DNA is the "machine code" between the inorganic and the biological,
> what's the "machine code" between the biological and the social? Between
> the social and the intellect (mythos? language?) How do they work?

Magnus


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

RE: LS CALL FOR VOTES - August 1999

[Hugh A. Butler]

I'm new.  This one sounds like a good one to revisit.

I'll vote for Keith's #4:
Leaving Quality undefined is a central tenet of the MOQ. We should work
towards clearly explaining why this is so and exploring the arguments both
for and against this position. Sarah: "Are you teaching Quality this
quarter?" "Yes..." - You know what it is. No you don't. Yes you do

- Hugh
Hugh A. Butler
Founder & President
Computer Consultants Corporation
"Your Credit Union Technology Partner"
36 South State Street
Beneficial Life Tower Suite 800
Salt Lake City, UT  84111-1401
801 575 5121   800 998 HELP (4357)
SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cccorp.com/

If it was easy, anybody could do it.




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - August 1999

[Steve Marquis]

Hello Squad,

I posted an intro on MoQ Discuss.

I vote for 4).

Steve


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - August 1999

[Diana McPartlin]

no 3

tks




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES - August 1999

[Keith A. Gillette]

Greetings, Squad!

It's ~2 days before the end of the month, time to start voting on your
topic suggestions for next month. You can post your votes between now and
31-July-1999.

A couple of points:

Please use the same subject line as this post when you submit your vote.

Please vote for only one of the topics listed below.


1) BODVAR SKUTVIK:

Seen in the light of the MOQ, what is it that is described in the ZMM. Is
it the emergence of SOM, the "coming of age" of the Intellectual level,
or...?


2) DENIS POISSON (VIA BODVAR):

If DNA is the "machine code" between the inorganic and the biological,
what's the "machine code" between the biological and the social? Between
the social and the intellect (mythos? language?) How do they work?


3) DAVID BUCHANAN:

(This is from chapter 17, page 222 in the bantam hard back edition.)

"That's the whole thing: to obatin static and Dynamic Quality
simultaneously. If you don't have the static patterns of scientific
knowledge to build upon you're nback with the cave man. But if you don't
have the freedom to change those patterns you're blocked from any further
growth."

What does Pirsig mean here? What does it mean for a real life person to
obtain both simultaneously?


4) ??? (VIA KEITH):

Leaving Quality undefined is a central tenet of the MOQ. We should work
towards clearly explaining why this is so and exploring the arguments both
for and against this position. Sarah: "Are you teaching Quality this
quarter?" "Yes..." - You know what it is. No you don't. Yes you do


__
Keith A. Gillette  




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - July 1999

[Robert Stillwell]

Have to go with #2.



> 1) [Denis Poisson]
> To further explore the Social and Intelectual Levels in terms of how
> they work and their composition. Also, if DNA is the "machine code"
> or interface between the inorganic and the biological levels, what form
> does the interface between the Biological and the Social levels take
> and similarly the interface between the Social and the Intellectual
> levels.
>
> 2) [Diana McPartlin & Robert Stillwell]
> Is there a soul or self? If so, how does it fit into the MOQ?
>
> 3) [Kevin Sanchez]
> How would Pirsig unite modernity and postmodernity. Chomsky
> advocates modernity claiming we need morality to legitimize our
> actions and justice is the highest ideal of society. Foucault
> advocates postmodernity claiming that despite our need of it,
> morality doesn't exists and that society defines its highest ideal as it
> wishes.  It seems Pirsig can't appease the moderns because of his
> reliance on experience instead of logic and he can't appease the
> postmoderns because of his acceptance of a universal morality
> instead of particular morality.
>
> 4) Ken Clark
> As a continuing topic beginning in July take each chapter, in turn, of
> Lila that is not purely narrative and attempt to reach concensus on
> the meaning as a group. We could even begin with ZMM. We could
> either allot a month per chapter or maybe shorten it to two weeks if
> experience indicated this was enough.





MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

RE: LS CALL FOR VOTES - July 1999

[Leighton John Ellis]

Number two please -

L.
ps. Please excuse the lurking, but I've been too busy recently to comment...

> 
> 2) [Diana McPartlin & Robert Stillwell]
> Is there a soul or self? If so, how does it fit into the MOQ?
> 



MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - July 1999

[Keith A. Gillette]

I cast my vote for:

>1) [Denis Poisson]
>To further explore the Social and Intelectual Levels in terms of how
>they work and their composition. Also, if DNA is the "machine code"
>or interface between the inorganic and the biological levels, what form
>does the interface between the Biological and the Social levels take
>and similarly the interface between the Social and the Intellectual
>levels.


__
Keith A. Gillette  




MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - July 1999

[Horse]

Hi All

My vote goes to No. 1

Horse


1) [Denis Poisson]
To further explore the Social and Intelectual Levels in terms of how 
they work and their composition. Also, if DNA is the "machine code" 
or interface between the inorganic and the biological levels, what form 
does the interface between the Biological and the Social levels take 
and similarly the interface between the Social and the Intellectual 
levels.


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - July 1999

[Mary]

I vote for #2
 
> 2) [Diana McPartlin & Robert Stillwell]
> Is there a soul or self? If so, how does it fit into the MOQ?

- Mary



MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - July 1999

[Denis Poisson]

Hi, Squad,

My vote goes for 1).  Surprise, surprise... :)


> Here are the suggested topics for July 99.
> 
> 1) [Denis Poisson]
> To further explore the Social and Intelectual Levels in terms of how
> they work and their composition. Also, if DNA is the "machine code"
> or interface between the inorganic and the biological levels, what form
> does the interface between the Biological and the Social levels take
> and similarly the interface between the Social and the Intellectual
> levels.
> 
> 2) [Diana McPartlin & Robert Stillwell]
> Is there a soul or self? If so, how does it fit into the MOQ?
> 
> 3) [Kevin Sanchez]
> How would Pirsig unite modernity and postmodernity. Chomsky
> advocates modernity claiming we need morality to legitimize our
> actions and justice is the highest ideal of society. Foucault
> advocates postmodernity claiming that despite our need of it,
> morality doesn't exists and that society defines its highest ideal as it
> wishes.  It seems Pirsig can't appease the moderns because of his
> reliance on experience instead of logic and he can't appease the
> postmoderns because of his acceptance of a universal morality
> instead of particular morality.
> 
> 4) Ken Clark
> As a continuing topic beginning in July take each chapter, in turn, of
> Lila that is not purely narrative and attempt to reach concensus on
> the meaning as a group. We could even begin with ZMM. We could
> either allot a month per chapter or maybe shorten it to two weeks if
> experience indicated this was enough.


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - July 1999

[diana]

number two please

> 2) [Diana McPartlin & Robert Stillwell]
> Is there a soul or self? If so, how does it fit into the MOQ?


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - July 1999

[B. Skutvik]

Horse & group.
I would have liked to have another go at the "soul" thing, but I 
think Denis provided a new and very interesting topic that have 
eluded our attention earlier (if my memory serves me) . So I go for 
Denis' entry below


> 1) [Denis Poisson]
> To further explore the Social and Intelectual Levels in terms of how 
> they work and their composition. Also, if DNA is the "machine code" 
> or interface between the inorganic and the biological levels, what form 
> does the interface between the Biological and the Social levels take 
> and similarly the interface between the Social and the Intellectual 
> levels.
 
Bo 


"Quality isn't IN the eye of the beholder. 
 Quality IS the eye of the beholder". 
 (Platt Holden)


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES - July 1999

[Horse]

Hi All
Oops! Sorry 'bout that. Got the Subject line wrong in the last post so 
please ignore it and use this one instead.


Here are the suggested topics for July 99. I've made the best attempt 
I can at summarizing what posts have been received. 
I think Diana and Robert were suggesting the same thing and 
apologize if that is not the case. 
To increase the choice I've resurrected one from the archives, which I 
think was first suggested by Kevin Sanchez - apologies to whoever if 
this is not the case.
Ken's suggestion would seem to provide for a long stint discussing 
the whole book chapter by chapter and I'm not sure how a forum 
which uses a monthly vote covers this - but feel free to comment.
Could you please indicate which one you are voting for by replying to 
this message and using the same subject line. Voting will be closed
on June 30 at 24:00 GMT.

1) [Denis Poisson]
To further explore the Social and Intelectual Levels in terms of how 
they work and their composition. Also, if DNA is the "machine code" 
or interface between the inorganic and the biological levels, what form 
does the interface between the Biological and the Social levels take 
and similarly the interface between the Social and the Intellectual 
levels.


2) [Diana McPartlin & Robert Stillwell]
Is there a soul or self? If so, how does it fit into the MOQ?


3) [Kevin Sanchez]
How would Pirsig unite modernity and postmodernity. Chomsky 
advocates modernity claiming we need morality to legitimize our 
actions and justice is the highest ideal of society. Foucault 
advocates postmodernity claiming that despite our need of it, 
morality doesn't exists and that society defines its highest ideal as it 
wishes.  It seems Pirsig can't appease the moderns because of his 
reliance on experience instead of logic and he can't appease the 
postmoderns because of his acceptance of a universal morality 
instead of particular morality.


4) Ken Clark
As a continuing topic beginning in July take each chapter, in turn, of 
Lila that is not purely narrative and attempt to reach concensus on 
the meaning as a group. We could even begin with ZMM. We could 
either allot a month per chapter or maybe shorten it to two weeks if 
experience indicated this was enough.


Horse


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org


MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES June 1999

[B. Skutvik]

Hi Squad
All the topics suggest were highly interesting, but I cast my vote 
for no. 3 as it goes to the very heart of the matter and continues 
the Dynamic-Static thread 

> >3. Is there a "spirit" or "self" and how does it fit into Pirsig's MOQ?

Bodvar 




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES June 1999

[Magnus Berg]

I vote for #2

> 2. Does the MOQ support Socrates when he says, "A man who has
> learned about right will be righteous."?

Magnus




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES June 1999

[Rob Stillwell]

I formally submit my vote for number three.

Thanks,
RJS




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES June 1999

[Diana McPartlin]

I vote for this one:
3. Is there a "spirit" or "self" and how does it fit into Pirsig's MOQ?

Diana


>Hi Squad
>
>There weren't that many suggestions for June but here they are.
>Go ahead and vote until May 31 24:00 GMT
>
>   Magnus
>
>
>
>
>1. We know about the levels inorganic, biological, social, intellectual, BUT
>let's take a closer look at moral codes. Pirsig argues that there are five
>moral codes, not just two.
>Let's look into the codes and define what they are and how they work.
>
>2. Does the MOQ support Socrates when he says, "A man who has 
>learned about right will be righteous."?
>
>3. Is there a "spirit" or "self" and how does it fit into Pirsig's MOQ?
>
>
>
>




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES June 1999

[Carmen Flynn]

Hello LS,


> I should vote for #1, but will rather bring it up again for August, when I get
> back and hopefully will have more time to look into it.

Also #3 sounds incredibly an exciting subject, But let's put that one in hold
too.

Number 2 Gets my vote, because somehow I think it will center around the
'social-intellectual code', which I believe is either code (3) or (4)of RMP
moral code classification. That will be a sub-set of topic #1.
(I think, I have drunk too much coffee today.  Please, forgive my gitterness).

Also, that # 2 topic brings to mind a Poem I read onceit goes something like
this:

(Bendito esos que pecan sin la nocion de lo que hacen.)
Translation:
"Holly those who sin without knowing..".

> Carmen.

"Life is so beautiful, never a dull moment."

>
>
> MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES June 1999

[Horse]

Hi All

Oddly enough, this one gets my vote.

2. Does the MOQ support Socrates when he says, "A man who has 
learned about right will be righteous."?
 
Horse




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES June 1999

[Magnus Berg]

Hi Squad

There weren't that many suggestions for June but here they are.
Go ahead and vote until May 31 24:00 GMT

Magnus




1. We know about the levels inorganic, biological, social, intellectual, BUT
let's take a closer look at moral codes. Pirsig argues that there are five
moral codes, not just two.
Let's look into the codes and define what they are and how they work.

2. Does the MOQ support Socrates when he says, "A man who has 
learned about right will be righteous."?

3. Is there a "spirit" or "self" and how does it fit into Pirsig's MOQ?




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

R: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Michele D'Alessio]

My vote is for #  5 (five) gimme5 !!




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Gene Kofman]

I vote for # 5.

5. Is Dynamic Quality the best venue? When do we know and how or if,
Dynamic
Quality is or is not the way to choose? Give examples from the books ZMM and
LILA and also from other sources. Other sources might include personal
experiences which involve a choice. State the reason the choice was made.
Was
it a Dynamic or Static choice? Were you Right or were you Wrong? and explain
WHY on MOQ terms.




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

RE: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Leighton John Ellis]

#1. 

kveja,
L.

-Original Message-
From:   Diana McPartlin [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Tuesday, April 27, 1999 11:37 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

Hi Squad

Here are the suggested topics for May 99. Could you please indicate which
one you are voting for by replying to this message. Voting will be closed
on April 30 at 24:00 GMT.

rds
Diana


1. With reference to the examples given in LILA, explain dynamic and static
quality and the relationship between them.

2. Given the ideas that (a) when in moral doubt we should always choose the
option that would allow for dynamics and (b) there are a virtually infinite
number of outcomes for any situation--- how can we ever realistically
speculate as to what option would be more Dynamic in any given situation?

3. Is Pirsig a philosopher first and Mystic second?  Or is it the other way
around? (or) Has Pirsig generated a philosophy with mystical elements? or
is he a pure
mystic whose "religion" sounds like [but isn't] philosophy.

4. Capture the essense of MoQ in 81 words, no more or less.

5. Is Dynamic Quality the best venue? When do we know and how or if,
Dynamic
Quality is or is not the way to choose? Give examples from the books ZMM and
LILA and also from other sources. Other sources might include personal
experiences which involve a choice. State the reason the choice was made.
Was
it a Dynamic or Static choice? Were you Right or were you Wrong? and explain
WHY on MOQ terms.







MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org


MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Bruce Dalton]

hi kids, couldn't make it for last months program but i'll be back

program #1 please

bruce




HotBot - Search smarter.
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MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Richard Budd]

I vote for #2.


MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[David L Thomas]

Vote for 1


MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

RE: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Bretana, Charles]

Number 2

-Original Message-
From: Jason McKague [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 6:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99


VOTE
# 3
-Original Message-
From: Diana McPartlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 8:50 PM
Subject: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99


>Hi Squad
>
>Here are the suggested topics for May 99. Could you please indicate which
>one you are voting for by replying to this message. Voting will be closed
>on April 30 at 24:00 GMT.
>
>rds
>Diana
>
>
>1. With reference to the examples given in LILA, explain dynamic and static
>quality and the relationship between them.
>
>2. Given the ideas that (a) when in moral doubt we should always choose the
>option that would allow for dynamics and (b) there are a virtually infinite
>number of outcomes for any situation--- how can we ever realistically
>speculate as to what option would be more Dynamic in any given situation?
>
>3. Is Pirsig a philosopher first and Mystic second?  Or is it the other way
>around? (or) Has Pirsig generated a philosophy with mystical elements? or
>is he a pure
>mystic whose "religion" sounds like [but isn't] philosophy.
>
>4. Capture the essense of MoQ in 81 words, no more or less.
>
>5. Is Dynamic Quality the best venue? When do we know and how or if,
Dynamic
>Quality is or is not the way to choose? Give examples from the books ZMM
and
>LILA and also from other sources. Other sources might include personal
>experiences which involve a choice. State the reason the choice was made.
Was
>it a Dynamic or Static choice? Were you Right or were you Wrong? and
explain
>WHY on MOQ terms.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org



MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org


MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[rich pretti]

Hi everyone:

Qualitative Suggestion Number One (1) Chooses Me

rich

__
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MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Jeffrey W. Travis]

#1:

>1. With reference to the examples given in LILA, explain dynamic and static
>quality and the relationship between them.

Jeff Travis


MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[RISKYBIZ9]

I choose number 1

Roger 


MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Jason McKague]

VOTE
# 3
-Original Message-
From: Diana McPartlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 8:50 PM
Subject: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99


>Hi Squad
>
>Here are the suggested topics for May 99. Could you please indicate which
>one you are voting for by replying to this message. Voting will be closed
>on April 30 at 24:00 GMT.
>
>rds
>Diana
>
>
>1. With reference to the examples given in LILA, explain dynamic and static
>quality and the relationship between them.
>
>2. Given the ideas that (a) when in moral doubt we should always choose the
>option that would allow for dynamics and (b) there are a virtually infinite
>number of outcomes for any situation--- how can we ever realistically
>speculate as to what option would be more Dynamic in any given situation?
>
>3. Is Pirsig a philosopher first and Mystic second?  Or is it the other way
>around? (or) Has Pirsig generated a philosophy with mystical elements? or
>is he a pure
>mystic whose "religion" sounds like [but isn't] philosophy.
>
>4. Capture the essense of MoQ in 81 words, no more or less.
>
>5. Is Dynamic Quality the best venue? When do we know and how or if,
Dynamic
>Quality is or is not the way to choose? Give examples from the books ZMM
and
>LILA and also from other sources. Other sources might include personal
>experiences which involve a choice. State the reason the choice was made.
Was
>it a Dynamic or Static choice? Were you Right or were you Wrong? and
explain
>WHY on MOQ terms.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org



MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

RE: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[David Buchanan]

I hereby cast my vote for number one, the static / Dynamic examples from
Lila.
Thanks, David B.  P.S. Topic #3 looks very good too.

> -Original Message-
> From: Diana McPartlin [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 5:37 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:      LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99
> 
> Hi Squad
> 
> Here are the suggested topics for May 99. Could you please indicate
> which
> one you are voting for by replying to this message. Voting will be
> closed
> on April 30 at 24:00 GMT.
> 
> rds
> Diana
> 
> 
> 1. With reference to the examples given in LILA, explain dynamic and
> static
> quality and the relationship between them.
> 
> 2. Given the ideas that (a) when in moral doubt we should always
> choose the
> option that would allow for dynamics and (b) there are a virtually
> infinite
> number of outcomes for any situation--- how can we ever realistically
> speculate as to what option would be more Dynamic in any given
> situation?
> 
> 3. Is Pirsig a philosopher first and Mystic second?  Or is it the
> other way
> around? (or) Has Pirsig generated a philosophy with mystical elements?
> or
> is he a pure
> mystic whose "religion" sounds like [but isn't] philosophy.
> 
> 4. Capture the essense of MoQ in 81 words, no more or less.
> 
> 5. Is Dynamic Quality the best venue? When do we know and how or if,
> Dynamic
> Quality is or is not the way to choose? Give examples from the books
> ZMM and
> LILA and also from other sources. Other sources might include personal
> experiences which involve a choice. State the reason the choice was
> made. Was
> it a Dynamic or Static choice? Were you Right or were you Wrong? and
> explain
> WHY on MOQ terms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org


MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Horse]

Hi All

My vote goes to Diana's suggestion - 

1. With reference to the examples given in LILA, explain dynamic and static
quality and the relationship between them.


Horse


MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Diana McPartlin]

Surprisingly enough I'm voting for my own suggestion:

>1. With reference to the examples given in LILA, explain dynamic and static
>quality and the relationship between them.




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Mary Wittler]

4. Capture the essence of MoQ in 81 words, no more or less.


MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Carmen Flynn]

Hello,
My votes goes to "1":

1. With reference to the examples given in LILA, explain dynamic and static
quality and the relationship between them.
Carmen Flynn.
Cheers!



>
>
> MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org





MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Magnus Berg]

Hi Squad

I vote for Diana's:
> 1. With reference to the examples given in LILA, explain dynamic and static
> quality and the relationship between them.

Magnus


MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES May 99

[Diana McPartlin]

Hi Squad

Here are the suggested topics for May 99. Could you please indicate which
one you are voting for by replying to this message. Voting will be closed
on April 30 at 24:00 GMT.

rds
Diana


1. With reference to the examples given in LILA, explain dynamic and static
quality and the relationship between them.

2. Given the ideas that (a) when in moral doubt we should always choose the
option that would allow for dynamics and (b) there are a virtually infinite
number of outcomes for any situation--- how can we ever realistically
speculate as to what option would be more Dynamic in any given situation?

3. Is Pirsig a philosopher first and Mystic second?  Or is it the other way
around? (or) Has Pirsig generated a philosophy with mystical elements? or
is he a pure
mystic whose "religion" sounds like [but isn't] philosophy.

4. Capture the essense of MoQ in 81 words, no more or less.

5. Is Dynamic Quality the best venue? When do we know and how or if,  Dynamic
Quality is or is not the way to choose? Give examples from the books ZMM and
LILA and also from other sources. Other sources might include personal
experiences which involve a choice. State the reason the choice was made. Was
it a Dynamic or Static choice? Were you Right or were you Wrong? and explain
WHY on MOQ terms.







MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - April 1999

[David L Thomas]

(Sorry I put the wrong subject line on the first response. this is OK because
after reading some of the other responses I wanted to tweek it anyway)

Vote for #5 

But suggest we combine 2,4,5,8 all which touch on pragmatism and
investigate Pirsig's claim:

"The Metaphysics of Quality is a continuation of the mainstream of twentieth
century American philosophy" [pragmatism] p366 Bantam Lila

> 2) [Carmen Flynn]
> 
> Compare those aspects of William James' philosophy (Pragmatism
> and Radical Empiricism) that fit Pirsigs Metaphysics of Quality.
> 
> (Reference: P423 Ch29 Lila - Black Swan Edition)
> 4) [Steve Bates]
> 
> In order to bring a pragmatic element into the discussion, state how
> Lila has affected our lives from a personal perspective
> 
> 
> 5) [David L Thomas]
> 
> H.N.Brailsford has said "the crude issue of power... is always the
> last of the realities that sensitive and reasonable men can bring
> themselves to face".
> 
> What, if anything, does the Metaphysics of Quality have to say about
> the realities of power.

> 8) [Horse]
> 
> If it is true that, as Chomsky suggests, it is largely due to the efforts
> (or lack of them) of the intellectual classes, that the rise in power of
> multinational corporations and neo-liberalism continues unabated
> should we look for a solution to this problem at an intellectual level,
> social level or both?




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - April 1999

[M.R. van der Wal]

Hi there,

my vote goes to topic #3


Marc




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

Re: LS CALL FOR VOTES - April 1999

[Leighton John Ellis]

As I've just found Lilasquad three days ago, and am in process of re-reading
lila, I vote for

Number Four...

...gives me a chance to get back upto speed on MOQ etc while experiencing
the dynamic edge of lila again.. be interesting to see how it affects me a
second time around after three or so years, of forgetting

Leighton Ellis   




MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org

LS CALL FOR VOTES - April 1999

[Boone Bradley]

My humble vote goes to 

#5) [David L Thomas] -- The issue of power in the MoQ

Boone
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MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org