> Welcome to a meritocracy. Those that do the work get
> to make the
> decisions as they've earned the right to do so.
In this, you are correct. But I also believe that you are in for a surprise:
we will see what the acceptance rate of your decisions and your product will be.
And also, we will
> The viability
> and growth of a tool's community is important when
> considering choice of
> development tools and language.
What are you saying?
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> Significant portion of softwares in use at large
> software installations
> for high-traffic providers such as Google are written
> in Python.
Something else just occurred to me: since Google does it, why don't we go and
tell the ZFS team to ditch C, and simply migrate it all to Python?
If Go
> Significant portion of softwares in use at large
> software installations
> for high-traffic providers such as Google are written
> in Python.
So what?
Let me get this straight: just because Google does something, XYZ should also
do that something?
You mean, like "ME TOOs" that I've been writ
> What would the benefit of that be?
The target audience, which is sysadmins and system engineers, is familiar with
C, and the project stands to benefit from that expertise.
Not to mention that C will give you maximum performance, short of writing IPS
in assembler.
The fact that some portions
> pkg list
>
> ...and pipe the output to grep. That avoids the
> overhead of interpreter
> startup time, etc.
...So rather than fix the root cause, you are saying to use a workaround?
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This message posted from opensolaris.org
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> And there is also such a thing as premature
> optimisation. A solution
> that scales well to 600 million records may not be
> appropriate for a
> much smaller number.
"Premature optimization is the root of all evil."
As the students of "The art of UNIX programming", none of us here would eve
> The issue has been thought about and wrote about in
> great detail. I
> would refer you, in particular, to Bart's excellent
> overview of
> dependency resolution and the problems faced with it:
>
> http://blogs.sun.com/barts/entry/satisfaction
That's because Mr. Smaalders chose to try to sol
> But Sun has always been engineering rather than
> marketing driven, and
> frankly, that's why I like them. :-)
When they were engineering driven, I was their biggest fan. But that has not
been the case for at least six years now, and possibly longer.
Now they are just marketing driven, and Sun
> Then you'll have to re-create your package.
If I put the work, which was normally done in postinstall, postremove,
preinstall and preremove into SMF, how can I ensure that the sysadmin doesn't
accidentally enable package's SMF method which does the equivalent of preremove
or postremove?
> Th
> You're getting to see the process from the
> slaughterhouse through the kitchen,
> instead of just getting the steak delivered on a
> plate when it's fully cooked
> like you did before - it's going to be messy, but
> hopefully we'll end up with
> a better product in the end.
And that's perfectly
> As I look at the
> details, I see, somebody sat
> there repeated their submission 50 times in 5
> minutes.
I saw that Solaris/SPARC had such an overwhelming majority, and I didn't
believe it. People who run Solaris on SPARC nowdays are far and few between,
partly because there really isn't any
> And sorry, but you're complaining about .64 seconds?
> Seriously?
I can understand why that would be a problem: if there are large number of
packages to query, those CPU times will add up.
You have think in terms of scalability.
In writing applications which make heavy use of databases, we h
> No, there are no plans for that. If a package
> declares dependencies as
> required, then the package system must install them
> to be able to manage
> packages properly. To do so otherwise is madness
> from a dependency
> resolution standpoint.
So how does one test different subsystems whi
> See "man pkgsend.1", specifically the "generate"
> subcommand, in builds
> 118 or later. Although I'd strongly recommend build
> 129 or later due to
> the significant improvements that have been made
> since then.
So, that explains a whole lot. Last time I studied this technology was at
bui
> Here you go.
Thanks.
> These docs should tell you ALMOST
> everything you want to know
> about IPS-style packaging versus the SVR4 packaging
> method. You can also
> do direct SVR4 publishing to an IPS repo.
If preremove, postremove, postinstall and preinstall scripts aren't
allowed/possible,
> If you want to bundle packages together,
We do not understand each other.
In order to create a SVR4 package, a prototype(4) file must be created, which
declares permissions and file attributes in a package, and specifies inclusion
of metadata, such as depend(4), and pkginfo(4). In other words
> There is significant end-user documentation, so I'll
> assume you're
> referring to publication documentation.
And this time, you will be assuming correctly.
> That isn't true. There are many tools that are
> available with IPS to
> create and publish packages.
And which tool generates the
> See man pkgsend.1
And which tool generates the bundle(4) file?
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> you do not think the current state of the patching
> system in solaris
> is just broken at the moment?
Never had a problem with it, because the management system I employ works
completely differently.
In my system, patches are never applied to production systems, but to the
operating system b
> From talking to both Solaris sysadmins and Linux
> users that like to change, it
> seems that the "indiana way" is not expected/wanted
> from either party.
That's what gets me in this whole circus, something is being decided for us,
and we're told it's good for us, but in the end the product t
> But the next release of Solaris will use the new
> packaging systems and
> installers, so SXCE is farther from Solaris 11 than
> OpenSolaris is.
And that also was my point:
because IPS is so radically different than SVR4 package format, whoever made
these decisions just caused us double worklo
> Banks should continue to use Solaris 10 *for now* for
> their database servers
> and mission critical systems - OpenSolaris releases,
> like Solaris Express
> releases before it, are previews of the next
> enterprise release of Solaris -
> they're works in progress, good enough for many
> tasks,
> But there is something broken about abusing the
> package installation
> process to setup something as complex as a database
> in my view.
You go ahead and tell that to all those banks which run world's trading &
exchange systems, and all those insurance companies, and the military. Tell
them
> The better question is why someone is doing something
> so broken in the
> first place.
There is nothing broken about being able to consistently and repeatably create
databases via packages.
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This message posted from opensolaris.org
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> There are few compatibility breaks that affect ISV's
> - what is breaking your
> software?
What happens on OpenSolaris when one tries to install a System V package that
runs a CREATE DATABASE inside of "postinstall" and SQL*Plus?
--
This message posted from opensolaris.org
> How are they worthless? They all install fine,
> since compatibility was kept
> with the System V packaging system.
I guess I failed to make my point - you can't engineer an enterprise piece of
software, for example for a bank or an insurance agency, or the any Fortune 100
company, then come
> Sorry - just realized my mistake in replying to this
> mail too soon after
> having a different discussion and not shifting my
> brain fast enough - root's
> shell is bash, /bin/sh is ksh93.
Errare humanum est - to err is human.
--
This message posted from opensolaris.org
__
> How are they worthless? They all install fine,
> since compatibility was kept
> with the System V packaging system.
I was told in no uncertain terms, by a Sun engineer I respect and trust, that
IPS will be "the way forward", come hell or high water, and that unless I
migrate to IPS, all of o
> Or you could just continue to be a troll on the
> OpenSolaris lists
And by the way, do bear in mind that today's "trolls on OpenSolaris lists" are
tomorrow's purchase decision makers and technology adopters and consultants, or
software company owners Just a thought.
--
This message po
> Just for the record, you don't need to be a kernel
> engineer to
> contribute to OpenSolaris.
Nobody ever said anything to the contrary; I certainly didn't, not even implied
it.
But what are you going to do without kernel engineers? They don't grow on trees.
And it's not like there is an abu
> I suspect he's a holdover from the switch from SunOS
> to Solaris, way
> back in the early 90s. SunOS was a BSD-based system,
> and many
> old-timers really disliked the switch to the
> SVR4-based Solaris.
My first Solaris was 2.5.1. So I started off on a System V Release 4.0 UNIX,
and I fee
> Like I said above, my local understanding about
> David's comment is that
> he meant OpenSolaris is a Linux replacement /for the
> LAMPS niche/ .
> Once again, OpenSolaris is about creating a superior
> OS for targeted
> niches, of which LAMPS is one. To win in such
> niches, you do need to
> The problem is one of target audience. OpenSolaris
> isn't a wholesale
> Linux replacement - that is, it's not intended to do
> everything that
> Linux does, nor be used everywhere that Linux is.
> People get confused
> n that. In many ways, OpenSolaris is more like the
> various *BSD OSes -
> (Though unlike the other part of your suggestion,
> we're not going to
> maintain a separate install & packaging system for
> Solaris, but will
> replace Solaris Express with the OpenSolaris
> installer & packaging.)
That's lovely; you (plural) will phase out a stable packaging subsystem in
fa
> The thing is trivial. If you can't master it, refrain
> from advising others.
Buddy, I've got formal education and training in using RBAC.
> RBAC is *very* good at what it is meant to be used,
> large systems with different administrators doing
> different things. Don't compare it with sudo or
> May I know what are the methods(either commandline or
> external software) in which I can dump out an image
> of the Suns Solaris 10 server I've installed?
> Alternatively, performing a full backup (including
> system configurations) of the server.
See the manual page for flarcreate(1M).
--
Thi
> For instance, the install didn't allow me to create
> both a root user and an "admin" user account like the
> opensolaris install does. I've been able to log in
> as root and create a user but how do i convert the
> system to the "root" role type system of
> opensolaris?
You don't need it; all
> Now when you talk about the mid-range to high-end
> market, such as the M-series it's a difficult
> ballpark. Unless you throw in someone like Unisys or
> Bull, you can't find an x86 system that'll have the
> amount of CPU's, Memory, or I/O; let alone RAS
> features.
Maybe not, but like I keep h
> It's now a matter of time before programmers figure
> out how to really take advantage of the hardware, OS,
> and libraries.
That's the part I really dread. I've spent the last six years in Europe, and
what I've seen there was a disaster enough to make one's hair stand up on one's
head.
Ther
> I really wonder what the problems were with Rock
> though that made David Yen leave for Juniper and Marc
> Tremblay leave for Microsoft.
12% to 25% over UltraSPARC T2+ performance gains were cited by Sun's own sales
reps. Some of the performance examples cited 2% - 7% improvement.
I don't know
> Hi... I am a concerned user of OpenSolaris who fears
> the distribution will be called off as soon as Oracle
> completes acquisition of Sun. Is this true?
I would be more concerned about OpenSolaris "Indiana" becoming the next Solaris
11, than anything else.
Everything else is small potatoes.
> The python build scripts rename the modules to
> *_failed if
> they were built but could not be loaded for some
> reason.
This is a known problem. Usually it happens because Python's build engine is
very fragile, and does not link the .so libraries properly (i.e. no -R, and
-R$ORIGIN/../lib is
> pci bus 0x0008 cardnum 0x00 function 0x00: vendor
> 0x10ec device 0x8168
> Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI
> Express Gigabit Ethernet controller
This driver is problematic. It does not work correctly on Solaris 10, nor does
it work correctly on Solaris Express, or actually an
> This isn't the place to ask,
> solaris...@yahoogroups.com is more
> appropriate for Solaris 10 x86 questions, please
> follow up there.
You know, after thinking about this some more, I'm no longer sure that that is
correct.
OpenSolaris code base stems from Solaris 10. Do you see where I'm goin
> Is HP-UX 11i bundled with HP Virtual Server
> Environment
It would be the other way around, but I don't remember seeing it on the DVDs;
normally when one performs an HP-UX install, it will be years before another
install is performed.
>From hp's web pages, it appears that VSE is a product whi
> But, Ive heard that to be able to search directories,
> they must have set "x" bit, so directories:
> rwx r-x r-x
> and files:
> rw- r-- r--
> that sucks. I must treat files different from
> directories. I can not do "chmod -R 744 /tank"
You can either do what Casper wrote, or you can also do th
> And just because you run Oracle doesn't
> mean that you have to run Solaris, right?
It doesn't, but it'd be foolish not to run Oracle on Solaris. Solaris is
optimized for Oracle, and Oracle is optimized for Solaris.
> Oracle
> seems to be trying as hard as they can to cut all
> ties with Sun,
> > Didn't have this before, so I wonder if it has to
> > make with nv111?
> > Around once per day, the mouse pointer freezes (be
> it
> > in a terminal window or web browser),
>
> Kernel panic?
>
> > then the hard drive LED is 100% active,
>
> Kernel writing crash dump?
That's almost a 100% gi
> Has anybody around here ever used HP-UX or AIX or any
> other relevant non-BSD, non-Linux UNIX-style
> operating system before?
I use HP-UX every day, especially since I have HP-UX servers at home and do
heavy development and system engineering on HP-UX.
> If so, what do you think are the disa
> Maybe Unix Admin didn't notice that I commented on
> `bacula' in my
> original post...
I did indeed. I normally react immediately directly to paragraphs I read,
because I find reading through the whole text is often disruptive to my thought
flow.
I caught the reference
> Wow... that seems a little extreme. So first I'd need
> to learn all
> about creating packages.
Correct. If you continue delving into Solaris, you will need to learn this
sooner or later, so better sooner than later.
> Why is all that necessary?
So that you might reach at least CMM level 2: c
> Setup: Opensolaris.11 buiid 110
>
> I've wondered if there is an application available
> for OpenSolaris
> that is capable of backup (incrementally) windows
> machines across a
> network?
Yes, there is.
It is called "Bacula" (http://www.bacula.org/), and it is conceptually very
similar to Le
> Can anyone tell me what I need to do in
> /etc/syslog.conf
> To make the system logger create a file if it isn't
> present.
>
> I wanted a general debug file so put this in
> /etc/syslog.conf
>
> *.debug/var/adm/debug
> hen I boot up I get error about there being no
> /var/adm/de
> when a company is struggling, there are millions of
> "analysts" and
> "experts" who come up with zillions of reasons for
> not doing well. Very
> conveniently these reasons come up only after the
> fact.
No, that's not true in this case; you can easily find my writings on the
subject dating
> Same here.
> Instead they complain about me because the
> (mis-)believe I'm
> "trolling" or "flaming".
> They cannot see that I tried to help them.
> Like MANY OTHERS.
I'd make one small change though:
I wouldn't lay off any engineers. I'd fire or demote all of middle management.
And enjoy eve
> http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/06/sun-microsystems-ente
> rprise-technology-enterprise-tech-sun.html
I'm not a Sun Microsystems employee, but from my perspective as an outsider,
and considering the end results, I would tend to agree with everything in that
article.
In fact, the article only re
> That's all you needed to supply.
>
> The CR was closed by renaud.ma...@sun.com, who noted
> in the evaluation
> that vold is gone, Tamarack replaced it, and that
> Tamarack *does*
> handle ZFS storage pools.
>
> The CR was then updated by artem.kachitch...@sun.com,
> who noted that
> Tamarack d
> Also: I personally don't understand why Sun made that
> design decision
> back in 1997/98 to treat a booted 32bit kernel and
> booted 64bit kernel
> as the same platform, and hence to identify it with
> the same uname()
> field values. In this case I prefer how linux handles
> it.
Why? It makes
> actually, this is two-sided coin. Sun Studio supports
> less architectures
> and less languages than gcc.
I was writing about the compiler himself, not the front end 'cc'.
Yes, what you write is true; but let's face it, any high-performance or system
stuff will be written either in C or Fortr
> I have had different experiences than you in this
> respect.
All I was trying to say is that they have excellent ideas, but the
implementation has traditionally fallen short. Case in point is Java, write
once run anywhere is a grand idea, but the complex language and lack of a
compiler make t
> Why is it though that it appears many gnu tools have
> been adopted for
> Opensolaris? Is it just to try to make a transition
> for linux users a
> little less painful or something to do with
> licensing?
Somehow someone at Sun figured that they wanted to woo all the Linux developers
over to S
>
> P {
> MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
> }
>
>
>
>
> size="2">When I run "uname -a" it
> says:
> SunOS
> hostname 5.10 Generic_137138-09 i86pc i386
> i86pc
> size="2">
> In the
> past, I've seen the system say "x86_64"
> when you're 64bit. And I've also seen it say
> "32bit" w
> That tinkering lead me to tryout a free OS being
> offered by Solaris.
> As I recall it cost something like $40 to try it out.
> The OS was free
> ut you paid for the processed CDs.
>
> I still remember when I finally got it to boot up
> that I thought it
> was really cool to see the Sun logo p
> I'm using what would pass as junk hardware to many
> here. Its older
> hardware and cheapo cards... but I've had to use PCI
> sata cards
> because OSOL does not recognize my onboard sata
> controller.
Believe me when I write that I completely understand your frustration, simply
because it is m
> Granted, versus following reason why it's NOT tier 1:
> What can be done
> with such a box besides booting it and
>
> - display a nice screensaver
>
> - maybe show some content (streamed movie, blueray,
> whatever)
What can be done?
For starters, a PS3 can house a 3.5" drive interally, and h
And I would change "i86pc i386 i86pc" to "ppc ppc ppc" for next year (;-)
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Nice April fool's hoax, however, you'll need to do a little better
photoshopping next time.
One can tell right away that the image is photoshopped.
+1 on originality though.
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> yes: Tom Riddle and Brian (and Guy) are resuming
> work.
That's really good news!
> But whatever they do: In any case it is not going to
> be a LiveCD/DVD
> distro very soon. So at least the subject is not
> entirely correct.
Yes, that's what bothers me. If there is no downloadable, bootable i
> OpenSolaris-based CD/DVD Distributions as of March
> 26, 2009:
> 12. Polaris (OpenSolaris on PowerPC project, b104+)
There's a downloadable Polaris ISO image? Where?
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> Funny enough, you tell the person why he is doing
> what he does.
> Maybe his reason is different, though? Maybe it is
> because he cares?
Your enthusiasm never was in question. I was merely pointing out why it is good
that problems noticed by UNIX admins are "ironed out" with a higher priority
> Exactly.
> So we have an nwam that cannot support more than a
> single interface,
> we cannot (semi-officially) have more than one link
> to the same gateway (because that's rocket-science),
> we can't print A4 to an A4-sheet from Gnome (at
> least),
> quite a few machines hang at boot,
> we hav
> 100% agreed. I think, if you put the number of posts
> and contributors in relationship to those with
> financial support from Sun, or an employer-employee
> relationship, empirical evidence might evolve that
> supports my lines. But this is not the most relevant
> thing.
You are implying that i
> And now those employees talk about 'fork'.
> During their working hours at whatever the company
> is?
I believe I was the first to write that I will fork OpenSolaris should I
perceive the need to do so.
I am not, and have never been an employee of Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Also, you are assuming
> Many thanks from all of us for Godwinning this
> pointless thread. It
> needed to be done.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
>From the link you posted:
"The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or
comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis migh
> I notice that packages seem to come in three basic
> flavors: Usr, Root, and Kernel.
>
> Can someone explain what the precise differences are?
> I assume that "Usr" is a userland package, "Root"
> requires root privileges, and "Kernel" is a kernel
> module. But I want to confirm that.
It's
> You get a 60GB mirror.
I suspected as much, hence my question.
> Then, when you remove the 60G disk and your reboot or
> export/import the
> pool, then it will reevaluate the size of the vdev.
>
> It tried and it worked (and "zpool history" remembers
> how I did it)
Cool. That is a really use
> To the 'genius' who pared down the shutdown process
> in snv_110, well done.
The genius is Daniel Price, and you can read about the adventure to get there,
at this URI:
"Speeding to a halt"
http://blogs.sun.com/dp/date/20090306
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This message posted from opensolaris.org
_
> >Can I use `dd' for that task or is that likely to
> have problems with
> >zfs?
>
> Possible, yes. Also, you need to copy everything.
Doesn't dd(1) do a bitwise copy, so how would that work?
> Yes.
>
> zpool pool replace olddevice newdevice
Did anyone ever tell you that you're a geni
Additionally, you might want to experiment with `zfs send`, but as I've not
used this feature yet, I can't say whether that'll work for this particular
scenario.
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opensolar
You're stuck.
There's no clean-cut way to do what you want; you can't copy the VTOC over,
because of the geometry mismatch.
The way to do what you want is with a combination of find(1) and cpio(1):
Assuming that the 500GB disk is mounted on /mnt,
( find / -mount -local -depth -print | cpio -pv
> I don't see why one should see PS3 as tier 1 target;
For a very simple reason: they are cheap and abundant, and can be had new,
instead of being forced to scavenge off of ebay (and I should know, about 50%
of my private server park is hardware scavanged "boots to some kind of a
prompt" off of
> I don't know. Why not? Furthermore, there's already
> the Polaris project...
...Which hasn't gone anywhere after Genesi killed the ODW ("open desktop
workstation"), the PS3 as the target wasn't accepted, and finally it was
determined that the POWER hardware, the next logical target, was way to
> Let`s hope that this will not happen...I personally
> doubt, that IBM will slay Solaris in favour of AIX,
> Solaris so far is much more architecture-independent
> than AIX.
WARNING: speculation.
This could go two ways,
a) IBM helps the OpenSolaris effort further
b) IBM moves in for the kill.
> Yes, of course. Luckily!!
> And I _know_, that most people on this list will
> jointly do this,
> together with you, or you together with them :))
Gladly!
> We talked about this before. But it doesn't make any
> sense to make a
> branch-off from Sun.
I concur. Right now, it doesn't make sens
> ld.so.1: python: fatal: relocation error: file
> build/lib.solaris-2.11-i86pc-2.6/_curses.so: symbol
> wchgat: referenced
> symbol not found
>
> Thanks for the report, I'll fix this.
Since I fought with this for about a month on HP-UX and managed to force the
Python's build system to link the
> This is HORRIBLE.
> If IBM has any interest in taking over a smaller
> company with the same
> products, then only to destroy competition:
Usually, yes. Chances are good that's the case here.
> Kill SPARC (T2 and Rock, not sure what they would do
> with Fujitsu's
> SPARC64),
They can't do anyt
> I would like to serve primarily iSCSI from this to a
> VMware cluster, and maybe some NFS, although that is
> not as important.
Actually NFS would be a much more elegant and simple solution, if your clients
are NFS capable, even for example for database workloads (did you know that
Oracle has
> copy bjam exectuable into a directory in PATH (or
> build bjam seperately)
> $ cp ./tools/jam/src/bin.solaris/bjamdirectory>
That's really not necessary. See here:
http://www.forum.hr/showpost.php?p=18684168&postcount=862
If you follow the above link step-by-step, you will end up with Boost
>10) Did I miss something..
Scoping the necessary work to turn ZFS into a cluster filesystem (phase 1),
Further modifying ZFS in order to turn him into a distributed filesystem (phase
2).
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> The configure goes through fine but after configgure
> the make fails with the statement "make failed for
> target - install recursive"
Did you try to build with GNU make? A lot of the freeware / open source code
incorrectly assumes one is running on GNU/Linux and using the GNU userland.
Also
> Hi
>
> Is there a tool like linux dmesg for opensolaris?
Yes, two in fact!
one is
tail -f /var/adm/messages
and the other
less -F /var/adm/messages
dmesg also exists, but is unreliable: the buffer is limted, and after a while
you will miss information.
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> What does "release" mean when describing a probably
> patched system???
Not much, other than the foundation one started with/from.
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> That sounds like a bug to file against 'facter' ...
> though there are
> complications here.
...And then some, though they have little to do with 'facter' himself. Rather,
'facter' just happens to exhibit the underlying architectural and technical
issues.
> The release is `uname -r`. Updates
> Thanks James, this makes sense. The software I'd
> like to patch is
> called facter[1], which I use with puppet[2] to
> automate the management
> of our freebsd servers.
I knew it.
If you have to resort to tools like puppet or cfengine, you've already lost.
Why?
Because what that means is t
> Perhaps using uname would be a better way to
> distinguish the releases? This is in machine-readable
> format, from what I understand...
Yes, however:
a) usable with switches only when one has one UNIX, and nothing else (100%
platform consolidation), which is unlikely
or
b) in case of a hete
> In the standart Installation, the installer Created a
> swap partition of 2gb.
It certainly appears so:
"219360k used, 2074692k available"
So at the time you posted this, the system was using ~214MB out of the ~1.98GB
of total swap capacity.
This implies (but does not guarantee), that if the
To the best of my knowledge and belief, there are no patches for OpenSolaris;
the only way to remedy or otherwise correct an OpenSolaris installation is to
upgrade the system.
This is a sideeffect of running a development stream of the Solaris operating
system.
--
This message posted from opens
> I started gnome and added the system monitor in my
> panel. I couldn't belief tat my ram is full and
> solaris doesn't use any swap space. I started many
> gui app's, the machine slows down but it doesn't use
> any swap why?
Perhaps you have not sliced the disk such as to have a swap slice,
ZFS is designed to do exactly what you want, they way you want it. No need to
muck with SVM (Sun Volume Manager), unless you have a very specific need and
scenario that needs addressed (which you do not seem to have). And guess what,
ZFS is available on Solaris 10 starting with Solaris 10 06/06
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