Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Tim Mackinnon wrote: Hi guys - this was an interesting thread - and exactly the reason why I brought up “Zapp Empowerment” at ESUG this year. just to let you know, based on your enthusiasm for this book, I bought it (but not yet read it). And one minor thought on the original post that didn'

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi guys - this was an interesting thread - and exactly the reason why I brought up “Zapp Empowerment” at ESUG this year. I felt the passion from every single one of you - and in fact, everyone had an interesting point to make. I got a bit nervous as I worked up the 40+ replies, but I was please

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi Thierry, On 10/6/2014 9:37 AM, Thierry Goubier wrote: > Hi Florin, > > you're in for some interesting questions :) > > First, I did not have a methodology for finding the issue (or explaining the > algorithm) when I started, and I didn't > have one afterwards; you need to look into the WhyLin

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi Florin, you're in for some interesting questions :) First, I did not have a methodology for finding the issue (or explaining the algorithm) when I started, and I didn't have one afterwards; you need to look into the WhyLine stuff for that (they do a lot better, but I don't have the time to rei

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi Thierry, On 10/4/2014 5:32 PM, Thierry Goubier wrote: > >> I do have specific tools I can use in such circumstances >> that you >> don't have. >> >> >> What kind of tools? I would be interested in learning about them >> and the >> analys

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

2014-10-03 17:03 GMT-03:00 stepharo : > > On 3/10/14 18:56, Hernán Morales Durand wrote: > > > > I have the same feeling. "Pharo is yours, but I take the main > decisions". Actually it feels a little bit insulting, I am using Pharo > since several years in a domain which nobody works with Smallta

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi Thierry, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Thierry Goubier wrote: > Hi Doru, > > Le 04/10/2014 22:48, Tudor Girba a écrit : > >> Hi Thierry, >> >> On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Thierry Goubier >> mailto:thierry.goub...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Le 04/10/2014 11:54, Tudor Gi

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi Doru, Le 04/10/2014 22:48, Tudor Girba a écrit : Hi Thierry, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Thierry Goubier mailto:thierry.goub...@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi, Le 04/10/2014 11:54, Tudor Girba a écrit : And now you are starting to have the issue of handling slices

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi Thierry, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Thierry Goubier wrote: > Hi, > > Le 04/10/2014 11:54, Tudor Girba a écrit : > >> And now you are starting to have the issue of handling slices on GT >> from Pharo: do people have to register on Moose, resynchronize on GT >> on Moose, push t

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Le 04/10/2014 12:07, stepharo a écrit : NativeBoost is not unstable for me, but why libcgit is on a bleeding edge NativeBoost version then? I do not get what you want to say. May be restating will help me understand. Last time I checked, libcgit was tied to an experimental NativeBoost vers

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi, Le 04/10/2014 11:54, Tudor Girba a écrit : And now you are starting to have the issue of handling slices on GT from Pharo: do people have to register on Moose, resynchronize on GT on Moose, push their slices there, wait for Moose to push a slice to integrate on Pharo, wait fo

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

On 3/10/14 23:03, Alain Rastoul wrote: Le 03/10/2014 22:10, stepharo a écrit : Hi Stef, I like your metaphor , and yes, I really hope to share my personal soup with Pharo community asap. A soup about databases, json, streaming/map reduce stuff I've been thinking (and still thinking) for a w

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

On 3/10/14 22:13, Hilaire wrote: I agree 100% with Thierry. I wrote and complain about it months ago: we need consolidation in the newly developed stuff we have. This is what we are doing. Look at spec we cleaned it. Now we do not have 3 more years for TxText and Athens. Keeping the old events

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

What are the plans to integrate TxText? - Igor is taking clients one by one and improving txText. We got a new syntax hilighter. - Then I want to replace the workspace by a TxWorkspace. - After for athens we should rewrite all the drawOn: methods. - We were waiting to get int

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

NativeBoost is not unstable for me, but why libcgit is on a bleeding edge NativeBoost version then? I do not get what you want to say. May be restating will help me understand. Athens is stable for me, but I believe that TxText requires a bleeding edge Athens. Igor improve Athens each time

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

libraries then we would have more impact. I am. More and more as I'm getting used to the libraries and to the contribution process (which still is centralized). Excellent However you can't count with everybody contributing to make Pharo a success. It won't happen to Pharo, as it wont happen

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Thierry Goubier wrote: > Le 04/10/2014 08:14, Tudor Girba a écrit : > >> Hi Thierry, >> >> On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 12:03 AM, Thierry Goubier >> mailto:thierry.goub...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> [...] >> And now, to make integration easier, we pile more st

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

> (1) Graphics are still based on BitBlt, which is slow and ugly. Moving > over to Athens will address this. While I have successfully used Athens > graphics, I still get VM crashes (which are probably due to Athens as I did > not get the crashes beforehand). > > When you get them can you report to

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

exactly and most of us are aware of these tools and the fact that are very useful because a) we are registered in the moose mailing list b) because you have posted a few demonstrations videos about their use here, in the moose mailing list and in tweeter. I am very excited that you push pharo de

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Le 04/10/2014 08:14, Tudor Girba a écrit : Hi Thierry, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 12:03 AM, Thierry Goubier mailto:thierry.goub...@gmail.com>> wrote: [...] And now, to make integration easier, we pile more stuff on top of the existing, bound to be removed, infrastructure: Glamour, Rubri

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi Thierry, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 12:03 AM, Thierry Goubier wrote: > [...] > And now, to make integration easier, we pile more stuff on top of the > existing, bound to be removed, infrastructure: Glamour, Rubric, etc... And > both Glamour and Spec don't make it easy to solve Morphic bugs. > > I

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Tudor Girba wrote: Hi Ben, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Ben Coman > wrote: Tudor Girba wrote: Hi, Indeed, you are right about noting that the situation will look different in a couple of months from now. Please, let's discuss

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi Ben, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Indeed, you are right about noting that the situation will look different >> in a couple of months from now. Please, let's discuss these problems again >> in 2 months. >> > > > My point was not to dela

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Tudor Girba wrote: Hi, Indeed, you are right about noting that the situation will look different in a couple of months from now. Please, let's discuss these problems again in 2 months. My point was not to delay discussion, but just not let it get you down and be tolerant... * For those se

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi, Indeed, you are right about noting that the situation will look different in a couple of months from now. Please, let's discuss these problems again in 2 months. The classic tools are still around. Furthermore, in the Settings, you have a Glamorous Toolkit category which allows you to switch

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Thierry Goubier wrote: Le 03/10/2014 21:48, stepharo a écrit : On 3/10/14 17:07, Thierry Goubier wrote: Hi Esteban, I'm not sure my answer will please you or stef, and maybe I shouldn't voice it, staying being a "customer" instead of contributing "the way you want it". Hard words, but yours a

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Le 03/10/2014 21:48, stepharo a écrit : On 3/10/14 17:07, Thierry Goubier wrote: Hi Esteban, I'm not sure my answer will please you or stef, and maybe I shouldn't voice it, staying being a "customer" instead of contributing "the way you want it". Hard words, but yours are hard too. I'd say si

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 11:03 PM, Alain Rastoul wrote: > Le 03/10/2014 22:10, stepharo a écrit : > > Hi Stef, > > I like your metaphor , and yes, I really hope to share my personal soup > with Pharo community asap. A soup about databases, json, streaming/map > reduce stuff I've been thinking (and

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Great :) Doru On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 11:03 PM, Alain Rastoul wrote: > Le 03/10/2014 22:10, stepharo a écrit : > > Hi Stef, > > I like your metaphor , and yes, I really hope to share my personal soup > with Pharo community asap. A soup about databases, json, streaming/map > reduce stuff I've bee

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Le 03/10/2014 22:10, stepharo a écrit : Hi Stef, I like your metaphor , and yes, I really hope to share my personal soup with Pharo community asap. A soup about databases, json, streaming/map reduce stuff I've been thinking (and still thinking) for a while now. All of that still in an alpha o

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi, The intention of the message of Esteban is to urge people to be positive. Nothing else. Keep in mind that email is a rather poor environment and simply ask yourself before sending a message if it can have a chance of leading to something better. Positive does not mean no criticism. On the con

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

I agree 100% with Thierry. I wrote and complain about it months ago: we need consolidation in the newly developed stuff we have. So it may mean to slow down and polishing. Because from my point of view, I don't understand where is moving Pharo, but true it is moving. Hilaire Le 03/10/2014 17:07,

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

2014-10-03 16:42 GMT-03:00 stepharo : >> You keep doing your great job, but accept that we, outside of the >> internal, core, revolutionary research being made, might have mundane >> necessities. That on the daily basis have more importance than a >> futuristic 128bit manycore vm that kicks JVM's a

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Thanks Hilaire. Yes you know it pretty well being a producer is sometimes tiring :) Stef Le 03/10/2014 13:44, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : I’m writing this because I’m sad about what is happening in this list. Hi Esteban, Don't be sad about negativity. I think it is a sign of good health for P

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Thanks alain. Here is my metaphor: I help myself and share my "soup of stones" with people that want to improve our soup of stones. At the end our soup may be great. Another way to present my metaphor is: "focus on what you need and change the system (and send us fixes/enhancements) on what y

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

TxText will happen. It's too important to leave it unhappening :). Oh yes like OSWindow, GTToolkit and many other things. :) Stef

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

On 3/10/14 18:56, Hernán Morales Durand wrote: I have the same feeling. "Pharo is yours, but I take the main decisions". Actually it feels a little bit insulting, I am using Pharo since several years in a domain which nobody works with Smalltalk, and never got a survey request (except for s

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Le 03/10/2014 13:44, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : > I’m writing this because I’m sad about what is happening in this list. Hi Esteban, Don't be sad about negativity. I think it is a sign of good health for Pharo. First of all it is a feedback, it should raise a red flag somewhere: some expectatio

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Fourth I have to say that I really don't get the "Pharo is yours" motto. Is there software out there , open source or not that does not listen to its community and does not try hard to makes its users happy ? Pharo is not mine, If I designed Pharo I would make a lot more diffirent choices tha

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi, On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 9:48 PM, stepharo wrote: > > You see we started Athens more than two years ago. It is a success for > external tools like moose and Roassal but > without TxText Athens will just be a nice package not change the face of > Pharo and we will get there. > TxText will happ

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

On 3/10/14 17:07, Thierry Goubier wrote: Hi Esteban, I'm not sure my answer will please you or stef, and maybe I shouldn't voice it, staying being a "customer" instead of contributing "the way you want it". Hard words, but yours are hard too. I'd say simply that Pharo is successfull, fairly

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

So, having an OPEN SOURCE project, with limited resources means that there is a lot of things that depend on the community. It depends on the community not just to fix, but to enlarge the ecosystem in general too. It is a matter of tolerance and patience. Not only it is a matter of people wri

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

On 3/10/14 14:58, J.F. Rick wrote: Hi Esteban, seconding your points, it is important to acknowledge why a solid Pharo core is important and worth striving towards even if it can be painful. First, read Bret Victor's reflection on Doug Englebart: http://worrydream.com/#!/Engelbart

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Superb! I'm happily translating a chapter on Artefact to english for the next book that will be announced soon and that sales will go to the pharo association :) Stef Hi, I’m writing this because I’m sad about what is happening in this list. I’m seeing a lot of general negativity and non con

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Le 03/10/2014 13:44, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : Hi, I’m writing this because I’m sad about what is happening in this list. I’m seeing a lot of general negativity and non constructive ways to discuss things. I’m also seeing more and more people using Pharo for their particular interests (which

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Generalisations and assumptions lead nowhere , personally I prefer someone that will tell me "fuck you I don't like your attitude" than someone that tries via diplomacy to make a point just so he does not raise the tentions and hurt egos. If there is such a problem as you claim and you are serious

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

2014-10-03 9:27 GMT-03:00 kilon alios : > First of all, if you are referring to me I never said "this is a shit". > > Second what you see as negativity I see it as honesty and for me is far > more important than "Pharo is yours". Assuming honesty does not become > rudeness. > > Third I dont recall

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

well… I think everybody is taking it too personal :) My call was to keep a good environment and try to be more positive on our communication. And to try to provide advice with the criticism (and to provide fixes when possible). I’m completely aware that people has other things to do than Pharo…

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi Esteban, I'm not sure my answer will please you or stef, and maybe I shouldn't voice it, staying being a "customer" instead of contributing "the way you want it". Hard words, but yours are hard too. I'd say simply that Pharo is successfull, fairly successfull for someone like me. It allows me

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote: > 2014-10-03 8:44 GMT-03:00 Esteban Lorenzano : > > > Please people, we (the pharo “core” team) cannot do everything. > > We do not have the manpower or the resources to hire manpower. > > We would like, but we just do not have the resou

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

2014-10-03 8:44 GMT-03:00 Esteban Lorenzano : > Please people, we (the pharo “core” team) cannot do everything. > We do not have the manpower or the resources to hire manpower. > We would like, but we just do not have the resources > (is already a blessing that we can work on this, for now: INRIA

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

Hi Esteban, seconding your points, it is important to acknowledge why a solid Pharo core is important and worth striving towards even if it can be painful. First, read Bret Victor's reflection on Doug Englebart: http://worrydream.com/#!/Engelbart He makes the case that the vision that drove Engle

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

I’m not talking about you or anyone else in particular. I’m talking about a general attitude I’m sensing. Now, I can be wrong… of course (and I hope) :) Esteban > On 03 Oct 2014, at 14:27, kilon alios wrote: > > First of all, if you are referring to me I never said "this is a shit". > > Sec

Re: [Pharo-dev] About ways to participate in community and general negativity

First of all, if you are referring to me I never said "this is a shit". Second what you see as negativity I see it as honesty and for me is far more important than "Pharo is yours". Assuming honesty does not become rudeness. Third I dont recall anyone ever demanding a feature of you guys working