Re: [sage-devel] Re: echelon_form calculated over the fraction field

2010-01-21 Thread Nicolas M. Thiery
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 02:02:05PM -0800, Jason Grout wrote: > William Stein wrote: > >I argue for keeping the current design when I'm *doing* math. > >I argue for changing echelon_form to return something over the > >fraction field when I'm teaching undergraduates. +1 Luckily enough, in France,

[sage-devel] Re: echelon_form calculated over the fraction field

2010-01-20 Thread Jason Grout
William Stein wrote: I argue for keeping the current design when I'm *doing* math. I argue for changing echelon_form to return something over the fraction field when I'm teaching undergraduates. Which is exactly why I think the best solution is to just have a .rref() command, which is what

Re: [sage-devel] Re: echelon_form calculated over the fraction field

2010-01-20 Thread William Stein
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:38 AM, John Cremona wrote: > 2010/1/20 Nicolas M. Thiery : >> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 03:43:00AM -0800, Jason Grout wrote: >>> >I'd rather have it called `echelon_form`, so I vote for leaving >>> >echelon_form as is. Jason's current change has the merit of pleasing >>> >e

Re: [sage-devel] Re: echelon_form calculated over the fraction field

2010-01-20 Thread John Cremona
2010/1/20 Nicolas M. Thiery : > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 03:43:00AM -0800, Jason Grout wrote: >> >I'd rather have it called `echelon_form`, so I vote for leaving >> >echelon_form as is. Jason's current change has the merit of pleasing >> >everyone.  If there is a strong majority for further changing

Re: [sage-devel] Re: echelon_form calculated over the fraction field

2010-01-20 Thread Nicolas M. Thiery
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 03:43:00AM -0800, Jason Grout wrote: > >I'd rather have it called `echelon_form`, so I vote for leaving > >echelon_form as is. Jason's current change has the merit of pleasing > >everyone. If there is a strong majority for further changing > >`echelon_form`, then please mak

[sage-devel] Re: echelon_form calculated over the fraction field

2010-01-20 Thread Jason Grout
Nicolas M. Thiery wrote: Hi! Thanks Jason for working on that! On ..., John Cremona: As a number theorist who is more liklely to want Hermite and Smith normal forms than an actual echelon form (i nthe usual linear algebra over fields sense), I would be quite happy for echelon form of a

Re: [sage-devel] Re: echelon_form calculated over the fraction field

2010-01-20 Thread Nicolas M. Thiery
Hi! Thanks Jason for working on that! On ..., John Cremona: > >As a number theorist who is more liklely to want Hermite and Smith > >normal forms than an actual echelon form (i nthe usual linear algebra > >over fields sense), I would be quite happy for echelon form of a > >matrix over ZZ

[sage-devel] Re: echelon_form calculated over the fraction field

2010-01-20 Thread Jason Grout
John Cremona wrote: As a number teorist who is more liklely to want Hermite and Smith normal forms than an actual echelon form (i nthe usual linear algebra over fields sense), I would be quite happy for echelon form of a matrix over ZZ to promote to QQ, and have differently names functions for He

Re: [sage-devel] Re: echelon_form calculated over the fraction field

2010-01-20 Thread John Cremona
As a number teorist who is more liklely to want Hermite and Smith normal forms than an actual echelon form (i nthe usual linear algebra over fields sense), I would be quite happy for echelon form of a matrix over ZZ to promote to QQ, and have differently names functions for Hermite and Smith (perha

[sage-devel] Re: echelon_form calculated over the fraction field

2010-01-19 Thread Rob Beezer
First - thanks, Jason, for taking this on. I think the rref approach makes a lot of sense for a change this big, and will be really useful for educational settings moving away from calculators (like me this term!). If we then want to replace instances of echelon_form, it can happen at its own pac