Dick,
I agree with most of what you have laid out here.
There is a "window" of opportunity that is simply
closed to subsistence farmers. In my experience
subsistence farmers tend to be even more "cooperative"
than "bourgeois" farmers and so a single biodiesel
powered "tractor" may lower the "win
I concur, there is no shortage of suitable/available
land for growing oil producing crops. In many cases
crop production on these acres is less environmentally
destructive than letting them sit "idle". It will make
farmers much more independent to be able to produce
their own fuel and sell a surp
I would suggest that an inline pressure accummulator
tank and a valve to your aerator stone would be a wise
move if you are using a fridge compressor since they
are not designed to run continuously. Also, since they
are free it may also be wise to hook up several to a
"manifold" leading to the tan
>Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 17:00:12 -0600
>From: Kevin Eber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Organization: National Renewable Energy Laboratory
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: EREN Network News -- 06/06/01
>Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>===
Hi Dick
I'm afraid you paint with far too broad a brush, very sweeping
generalisations - true, but very far from the only thing that's true.
There are far more than a billion subsistence farms, and the variety
of circumstance is immense - do you really think you cover them all
with what you'v
"Fuel-cell cars run on electricity produced by taking hydrogen
from a liquid such as methanol or gasoline, and combining it with
oxygen from air. They emit only water and heat as exhaust and have
become the focal point of research in an industry seeking cleaner
alternatives to the internal-combust
as countries like china develop, I believe his figures might end up being
conservative. He knows his topic, and is a respected scientist. Doesn't make
him right, but does lend credence to what he says.
Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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and after the meal has been fermented for ethanol, the mash can be used as
animal feed, compost, or raw material for a biodigester.
Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
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Well,
I think that the ethanol people would be the moonshine makers, whereas the
Biodiesel people would obviously be the more highly cultivated?
Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are we
bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and then
having to
most relevant details in my other postings, but will be very happy to fill
in any missing details !!
cheers, dick.
"Nothing is as cuddly as a well posting !!" (This is a Public
Service Message)
Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 22:50
Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz]
> Tell us more!
> Marc de Piole
straight tickel. by the book. but with all sorts of before and after
testing, pressure + temp during mixing, and vacuum + temp for meth recovery.
all fluid transfers are pressurized. no washing. very 'affirmative'
mixing...
our clients use refined edible oil only. (so far). none of them use it po
actually, almost 100 % of 'free' methanol. we use vacuum and 50¡ celsius +
to extract it before we actually separate the glycerol from the biodiesel.
initial meth content depends on the oil being used, usually 15-20 %.
cheers, dick.
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
S
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Rethinking economy of scale
Bravo Marc! And thankyou!
A couple of things to add. Biodiesel may or may not be feasible at the
individual small-peasant level
*or necessary, i might add... bullocks, mules, and such are known to have
little
> You'd have to have an awful lot of ethanol to keep it from freezing.
>Strong beer (5-7%) freezes pretty easily. People used to "distill" their hard
>cider by putting a barrel out to freeze. Any fermented solution you
>can you can
>freeze fairly quickly -- the % of ethanol will never be abo
Hi Cordain
We've dealt with filtering water out of WVO before, and the consensus
was that it wouldn't work. Not sure if dehydrating ethanol by
filtering has come up. But the kind of filters you're talking of
weren't discussed. If nobody else knows the answer, I very much hope
it's you who'll
InfoBeat - Report: Nissan to develop new cars
TOKYO (AP) - Nissan Motor Co. and Renault SA of France have
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following the lead of the world's largest automakers, a Japanese
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Fuel-cell cars ru
Hi Robert
>Harmon Seaver wrote:
>
> > You'd have to have an awful lot of ethanol to keep it from freezing.
> > Strong beer (5-7%) freezes pretty easily. People used to
>"distill" their hard
> > cider by putting a barrel out to freeze. Any fermented solution
>you can you can
> > freeze fai
j johnny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>i agree with keith, the american farmer and i suppose
>farmers all over the world have become so proficient
>at producing commodities that we cant get rid of them.
>why do you think the american farmers are crying about
>low prices so much, its because there i
Hi Andy
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
> I've had the pleasure of reading along with all of you for a number
>of months and believe now I can add something useful. Feel free to
>toss a cabbage if you don't agree. :-)
We're fresh out of cabbages, but would you accept a bunch of roses? :-)
> I'm ma
I'm reposting this question because I do not believe it was answered last
time I posted or perhaps I missed the reply. But their are marine fuel
filters that are designed to filter the fuel and remove the water from it as
well. Their is a serperate resevoir on the bottom of the filter that hold
Hi Dick
Interesting. What sort of process are you using?
Best
Keith Addison
>jan, my answer in the text of your em :
>
>Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 14:32
>Subject: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
>
>You deliver two plants for 800 liters of BD per day, do you ?
>
>*
>Keith,
>Do the biodiesel people just not want the ethanol people online. Things seem
>to get rude at times. I am just trying to increase my knowledge base and
>find a way to make my own fuel as cheap as is possible.
>Thanks,
>Ron Miller
Hi Ron
Sorry, I don't understand - what's rude? I think we
"Gary and Jos Kimlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In Oz farming is on the nose and considered by some environmental groups as
>the industry that should be eliminated ASAP because of its impact.
>Environmental costs of farming are no more costed than those of any other
>industry.
It depends what
Harmon Seaver wrote:
> You'd have to have an awful lot of ethanol to keep it from freezing.
> Strong beer (5-7%) freezes pretty easily. People used to "distill" their hard
> cider by putting a barrel out to freeze. Any fermented solution you can you
> can
> freeze fairly quickly -- the %
Harmon,
Don't let Club Sierra hear you say that. They apparently think that
agriculture should deal solely with food and not mix with energy issues.
Take the weight of each oilseed per bushel, subtract 94% of the oil weight
(cold pressing leaves ~ 6% of the oil in the feed meal), subtract any hu
Marc,
Dr. Nering made no claims or stipulations about population growth in his
analogy. Rather, he used actual estimated increases in global energy
consumption. The 5% growth per annum which he "assumed" is a global reality.
Whether the percentage remains, increases or decreases from 5% was not h
-Original Message-
From: F. Marc de Piolenc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2001 4:18 PM
To: Biofuel List
Subject: [biofuel] Coconut oil
Hanns Wetzel wrote:
"Then there is the juice, which apparently gets thrown away. When the
coconut is still green, the juice (I refus
You'd have to have an awful lot of ethanol to keep it from freezing.
Strong beer (5-7%) freezes pretty easily. People used to "distill" their hard
cider by putting a barrel out to freeze. Any fermented solution you can you can
freeze fairly quickly -- the % of ethanol will never be above 16%
Is there a chart somewheres showing the amount of meal left after oil
extraction for each crop like there is for oil per pound or acre? And would it
neccesarily cause a glut -- perhaps with many crops the meal could be then used
for ethanol production?
Appal Energy wrote:
> Herein lies th
This article makes the Malthusian error of assuming that a quantity will
continue to grow along a simple exponential, when in fact real living
systems always level off through interaction with others.
Using the same simplistic, pseudo-scientific arguments, one can easily
"prove" that Mankind is
we have made maple syrup using this method.
Steve Spence
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[EMAIL P
Tell us more!
Marc de Piolenc
Dick Carlstein wrote:
>
> ken, we are presently delivering small (800 liters/day in two batches)
> biodiesel plants in the argentina-uruguay area, and will be happy to
> exchange info on these. oil used is mainly sunflower. cheers dick.
Biofuels at Journey to For
Dear listmates,
There has been traffic on both lists about the need to scale up
production of biofuels to "economical" levels, and that has triggered
much thinking on my part. Until now I, too, had been concentrating on
industrial scale processes - admittedly still not on a very large
industrial
Keith,
Do the biodiesel people just not want the ethanol people online. Things seem
to get rude at times. I am just trying to increase my knowledge base and
find a way to make my own fuel as cheap as is possible.
Thanks,
Ron Miller
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED
Those hermetically sealed fridge compressor are not that suitable. Their
motor windings insulation are meant for gas cooled and not air cooled.
Therefore the compressor need to run constantly and cannot be cycled( by
pressurestat)
Those diaphram compressors would be more suitable as the motors ar
Hi,
What's the recovery rate(or percentage) for methanol per batch of 400
litres?
Gerry
"CARLSTEIN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 06/06/2001 03:41:20 AM
Please respond to biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com
To: "biofuels-biz" , <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group)
Subject
I will let you know as soon as I find something>
Ron
- Original Message -
From: bob golding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite
> Hi Ron,
> Here in the UK 3A zeolite 1.6 -2.5 mm spheres is 20 dollars for 500
> grams 30 dollars
If we were to put a loop in a tank full of wet ethanol .Circulate
refrigerant thru the loop.
Voila! Water would freeze and you have a 'popsicle' of ice and dry Ethanol.
Gerry
"Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 06/05/2001 10:19:28 PM
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com
To:
cc
Maybe you guys haven't been to southern part of the US. There are millions
of usable, uncultivated acres of land here that have never been farmed. It's
like Sagans theory of global warming, he didn't collect all the facts before
making his statement.
- Original Message -
From: Gary and Jos
Hi Ron,
Here in the UK 3A zeolite 1.6 -2.5 mm spheres is 20 dollars for 500
grams 30 dollars for 1 kg and 58 dollars for 3 kg. Don't have a clue how
much you would need to make a decent amount of anhydrous ethanol. I am new
to this as well. If I get any more info I will let you know.
cheers
b
You have removed calorific value of the farm product. At present (6
billion)we are capable of sufficient overproduction to wear that, but at 18
billion (2050?)we would not, try 50 billion people. The projections that
show population leveling off and then decreasing require that a minimum
global st
Ken,
Thanks for the info. I don't have any as yet. In fact I haven't built my
still at this time. The state of Alabama has a lot of restrictions
pertaining to ethanol production. I have written to the governor, the lt
governor, my senators, representatives, the president and vice president
about t
In Oz farming is on the nose and considered by some environmental groups as
the industry that should be eliminated ASAP because of its impact.
Environmental costs of farming are no more costed than those of any other
industry. If mineral fuel sources are replaced by renewable combustion then
the o
Hi all.
Ive sent a personal note to Aleks to see if he can help.
But I'm in a panic now and need help.
My first small batch worked well using aleks' foolproof method.
The last 2 batches ive done by the book.
On the first batch, I left the acid stage for too long 1.45 + the 50 mins
but got a yield.
Try a redundant fridge/freezer compressor :)
Ian
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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Install a 2-tank Straight Renewable Oil (SRO) system. Then you have less
biodiesel to make and lots of flexibility in winter. You can run
biodiesel/SRO blend in winter in your SRO tank to thin it and compensate for
less heat from engine. You can then start up and shut down on winter diesel
in main
andy, tks. for the inquiry. just posted basic specs for our std plant. if
you need more info pls. let me know. whereabouts are you located, and what
oil(s) are you planning to use ? cheers, dick.
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 14:44
Sub
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC)
Subject: [biofuel] Economy of Scale-or-Smaller is Better...Maybe
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I've had the pleasure of reading along with all of you for a number
of months and beli
jan, my answer in the text of your em :
Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 14:32
Subject: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
You deliver two plants for 800 liters of BD per day, do you ?
* no, we deliver one plant capable of processing two batches of 400 liters
each per 24 hr
fridge compressor :)
Ian
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Does anybody have any experience with the processing of Hydrogenated Oils?
OK, how about knowledge?
OKOK! References?
I'm interested in any processing or performance information.
Much appreciated
Mike
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
h
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I've had the pleasure of reading along with all of you for a number
of months and believe now I can add something useful. Feel free to
toss a cabbage if you don't agree. :-)
I'm making small batches (3gallon) of biodiesel as I learn the
processes involved. I'm slo
> Coffee oil, 386kg/ha (Tickell), greater than hemp or soy...
>
>
>
> "Mexico, one of the region's coffee powerhouses, has yet to begin official
> testing but researchers say local farmers are already selling their
> discarded beans to industries as a cheap source of fuel, said Salvador
Dias
>
Dick,
Can you point me in the direction of more info on the plant you
produce? That's just about the size operation I'm looking to expand
into. Thanks in advance.
Andy
Mixing Biodiesel in the garage and my VW loves it. :-)
>"Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ken, we are pr
Hi to all,
I do not know if it helps (but it was very useful in my analyses) but I give
some figures below:
Density:
rapeseed oil: 0.906 kg/litre
biodiesel
(from rapeseed oil):0.88 kg/litre
petrodiesel:0.85 kg/litre
methanol:
Hi to all,
I do not know if it helps (but it was very useful in my analyses) but I give
some figures below:
Density:
rapeseed oil: 0.906 kg/litre
biodiesel
(from rapeseed oil):0.88 kg/litre
petrodiesel:0.85 kg/litre
methanol:
Hi to all,
Thank you Ray Hough for very good reference for comparing BD standard.
The table presented is really very informative.
I have another "quality" question:
How can we assure the almost 100% repeatability of the quality biodiesel in
each batch
jan surwka
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bio
Hi to all,
Question to Dick Carlstein:
You deliver two plants for 800 litres of BD per day, do you ?
1) What are the initial costs per plant ?
I have here the offer from Polish producer (for rapeseed oil
esterification) for the batch
400litres/day at say US $
i agree with keith, the american farmer and i suppose
farmers all over the world have become so proficient
at producing commodities that we cant get rid of them.
why do you think the american farmers are crying about
low prices so much, its because there is more of the
stuff laying around than we
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 18:13:07 +
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [biofuel] Re: Bio wash waste water
>
> I'm thinking of evaporating off the water (plenty of sun here) Can
> anyone tell me what I'll be left with and if
>Hi to all,
>Does anyone out there know the process for removing water from ethanol using
>3A zeolite. I know this is the material used by industry to do this
>but I'd like to
>know the process. As I understand it this will remove all the water content of
>distilled ethanol. Any remarks?
>
>Thank
I'm thinking of evaporating off the water (plenty of sun here) Can
anyone tell me what I'll be left with and if it can be used for
anything?
James
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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To unsubscri
>From: robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: zeolite
>
>I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts,
>or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors
>during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and
>t
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