[Bug 2080785] Re: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS
** Changed in: grub2 (Ubuntu) Status: New => Won't Fix -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2080785 Title: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2080785/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2080785] Re: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS
(Only to round up this topic:) The Fedora 41, released a few days ago, does exactly do this: When detecting a second OS, it will display the grub menu at reboot, and it has the 'GRUB_DEFAULT=saved' already set up. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2080785 Title: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2080785/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2080785] Re: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS
Sorry, was busy in the last days ... Yes, you are right. The default settings are such, that pressing Esc during boot bring up the grub menu. So the issue is solved; and yet I am not fully convinced: Couldn't we display something like "Press 'Esc' to show the boot menu"? (It is still unsolved for the other report, with the Helix 2, though. Just to be clear) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2080785 Title: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2080785/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2080785] Re: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS
Does the GRUB menu show if you hold down shift while booting? If that's the case the no, this is still not a bug as explained above. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2080785 Title: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2080785/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2080785] Re: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS
I had to set it to 'New', since it showed not to be an "opinion" after a weekend of installations. Among others, I had to install 24.04.1 to two different machines that so far only had W10 installed. After installation, both machines did not show any choice of OS at boot, and straightforwardly booted into kubuntu. In both cases I encountered a default grub of GRUB_DEFAULT=0 GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE=hidden GRUB_TIMEOUT=0 GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR='Kubuntu' GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT='quiet splash resume=UUID=b2e084d0-2cce-4cad-ba48-ed13be62e0b0' GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="" "hidden" as style and "0" as timeout are as invasive as possible: "no selection menu" (by "hidden"), and no selection menu another time through 0 seconds of timeout. Just moving these parameters to "menu" and "10" brought up a proper grub boot selection menu in both cases. I can see no proper reason to forcibly EXCLUDE any chance to boot to the previously installed W10. That is what these two default setting unfortunately do. I reiterate my position that this is a bug, and the default settings ought to be selected such that - circumstances (UEFI, BOOT) allowing - the user can actually select between the OSes. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2080785 Title: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2080785/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2080785] Re: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS
** Changed in: grub2 (Ubuntu) Status: Opinion => New -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2080785 Title: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2080785/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2080785] Re: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS
Sorry, I didn't say "part of the problem". To the contrary, you acted professionally, very quick, and actively involved. What I mean is rather this: we all know how Windows boots. As infrequent user, I still saw quite a number of boots. I owe an old W7 laptop. Last year, I added W10. And, without me doing anything, and expecting anything, at boot it suddenly stopped and gave me 30 seconds to select W7 or W10. I never before had seen nor done that, didn't expect the additional screen. In order to remove this screen or change the 30 seconds, I'd probably have to creep through silly regedit settings. But never mind, the popping up of a selection menu after installation of another flavour of Windows is exactly what a user may expect. Including AFAIAC, a user of Linux. Where the *nix-user can expect a much larger choice of settings and parameters and more simple handling. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2080785 Title: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2080785/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2080785] Re: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS
20 years ago, I promise you this was the behavior of grub on BIOS machines running Ubuntu. As Mate says, the current behavior on UEFI is a concession to the limitations of UEFI. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2080785 Title: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2080785/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2080785] Re: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS
I think it's disingenuous to say that dual booting two operating systems on one computer is something non-technical users who don't understand this do. And also I think it's legitimately possible that users used to prefer the intended UX where you can boot the "default OS" without a timeout, and hold a key when you want to boot the secondary OS. But the entire reason this topic is even a thing is because the timeout had to be introduced due to UEFI being inferior in keyboard handling, and everyone got used to that as the default UX (including me and that's why I was initially confused). In reality pretty much all new computers are UEFI now, and the old intended behaviour is only seen on select old computers with BIOS. Newer versions of the UEFI spec have an improved input api that might allow modifier detection, but this likely wont be implemented for backwards compatibility. All new computers you can buy are UEFI, and will be going forward and thus the timeout is here to stay for practically all hardware that's not about to be recycled. I don't think calling me "part of the problem" is not fair for not wanting to get behind changing the intended behaviour of existing stable distributions on legacy hardware due to one person's preference. Not to mention the fact that those types of changes are almost certainly against stable release update policy. Maybe in an ideal world BIOS should get the timeout on upcoming releases, but new bare-metal installations on BIOS with dual-boot are almost zero I am guessing, so this is probably not worth the time, and wouldn't help anyone. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2080785 Title: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2080785/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2080785] Re: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS
What should I say? And this isn't supposed to be any attack on your work. You acted professionally. However, I am frustrated. Some 20, 25 years ago I was a Linux evangelist. 'We' actually were in front of the competitors in many aspects. Unfortunately, we lost, and fell behind. One reason was that the projects were steered by nerdy people. Not by profit-oriented managers. Nobody who needs the money to put food on the table would eventually cut his monetary supply by - without further ado or safety net - deprive the average user of the obvious possibility to boot an add-on OS. It is a nerdy decision, to complicate things further by having two different behaviours for BIOS and UEFI. How many an average user to whom I wanted to bring this wonderful OS would want or need to know about BIOS and UEFI? "Afuera" to the person who decided on that. The most useful behaviour in most cases is, that any single-OS-box 'just boots', without showing the OS to be booted, because there is no alternative anyway. And automagically does show the upcoming system(s), for the user to know the target OS in a multi-boot-system; and to be eventually able to change the boot target. "Hidden" doesn't describe this properly, I agree, but the behaviour is probably what a large majority of users would perceive as 'most common sense' solution. And, yes, without the slightest intention to understand if they boot with BIOS or UEFI. And even if a PHB enforced such a change, any reasonable OS would make sure, that the boot menu does show, in all cases, and inform the user that the behaviour has changed, and that from now onwards, in order to still be able to boot to a OS of the users' choice, the user would have to do this and that ... Or, better, be presented with a full explanation, the opportunity to change this by an edit, or - still better - immediately, automatically. It looks like people had given up to gain a wider audience for Linux with stuff like this. And this is only a proverbial small fish in comparison to what was messed up elsewhere. No, not necessarily technically, but on a managerial basis. AnybodyI will only treat his product and perspective customers like that, if he doesn't care about 'sales figures' (here: acceptance) at all. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2080785 Title: GRUB menu doesn't show with os-prober entries on BIOS To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2080785/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
