> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
>
> If something like this already exists, please let me know. Otherwise,
> I
> plan to:
>
> Create "zfshistory" command, written in python. (open source, public,
> free)
On 25 apr 2010, at 20.12, Richard Elling wrote:
> On Apr 25, 2010, at 5:45 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>
>>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:42 PM
>>>
>>> Next,
>>> mv /a/e /a/E
>>> ls -l a/e/.snapshot/snaptime
>>>
>>> ENOENT
On Apr 26, 2010, at 5:02 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:12 PM
>>
>>> E did exist. Inode 12345 existed, but it had a different name at the
>> time
>>
>> OK, I'll believe you.
>>
>> How about this?
>>
>>
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:12 PM
>
> > E did exist. Inode 12345 existed, but it had a different name at the
> time
>
> OK, I'll believe you.
>
> How about this?
>
> mv a/E/c a/c
> mv a/E a/c
> mv a/c a/E
The thin
On Apr 25, 2010, at 5:45 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:42 PM
>>
>> Next,
>> mv /a/e /a/E
>> ls -l a/e/.snapshot/snaptime
>>
>> ENOENT?
>>
>> ls -l a/E/.snapshot/snapname/d.txt
>>
>> this
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:42 PM
>
> Next,
> mv /a/e /a/E
> ls -l a/e/.snapshot/snaptime
>
> ENOENT?
>
> ls -l a/E/.snapshot/snapname/d.txt
>
> this should be ENOENT because d.txt did not exist in a/E at snaptime
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Freddie Cash
>
> From the sounds of it, the .snapshot directory is just a pointer to the
> corresponding directory in the actual snapshot tree. The snapshots are
> not actually saved per-direc
> From: Ragnar Sundblad [mailto:ra...@csc.kth.se]
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:18 PM
>
> > To answer the question you linked to:
> > .shapshot/snapname.0/a/b/c/d.txt from the top of the filesystem
> > a/.snapshot/snapname.0/b/c/d.txt
> > a/e/.shapshot/snapname.0/c/d.txt
> > a/e/c/.snapshot/sn
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 10:43 AM
>
> > Nope. That discussion seems to be concluded now. And the netapp
> does not
> > have the problem that was suspected.
>
> I do not recall reaching that conclusion. I think the definition of
>
On Apr 24, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote:
> On 24 apr 2010, at 16.43, Richard Elling wrote:
>
>> I do not recall reaching that conclusion. I think the definition of the
>> problem
>> is what you continue to miss.
>
> Me too then, I think. Can you please enlighten us about the
> defini
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote:
>
> On 24 apr 2010, at 16.43, Richard Elling wrote:
>
> On 24 apr 2010, at 09.18, Brandon High wrote:
> > To answer the question you linked to:
> > .shapshot/snapname.0/a/b/c/d.txt from the top of the filesystem
> > a/.snapshot/snapname.0/b/
On 24 apr 2010, at 16.43, Richard Elling wrote:
> I do not recall reaching that conclusion. I think the definition of the
> problem
> is what you continue to miss.
Me too then, I think. Can you please enlighten us about the
definition of the problem?
>> The .snapshot directories do precisely
On Apr 24, 2010, at 5:27 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
>> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
>>
>>> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
>>> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
>
> > From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> > boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
> >
> > Actually, I find this very surprising:
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Edward Ned Harvey
wrote:
> As the thread unfolds, it appears, although netapp may sometimes have some
> problems with "mv" directories ... This is evidence that appears to be
> weakening ... Sometimes they do precisely what you would want them to do.
Richard and I
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
>
> Actually, I find this very surprising:
> Question posted:
> http://lopsa.org/pipermail/tech/2010-April/004356.html
As the thread unfolds, it appears, although netapp may
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> One last try. If you change the "real" directory structure, how are
> those
> changes reflected in the "snapshot" directory structure?
>
> Consider:
> echo "whee" > /a/b/c/d.txt
> [snapshot]
> mv /a/b /a/B
>
> What do
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 04:49:30PM +0100, Darren J Moffat wrote:
> /foo is the filesystem
> /foo/bar is a directory in the filesystem
>
> cd /foo/bar/
> touch stuff
>
> [ you wait, time passes; a snapshot is taken ]
>
> At this point /foo/bar/.snapshot/.../stuff exists
>
> Now do this:
>
> rm
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:10:09PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> > From: Nicolas Williams [mailto:nicolas.willi...@oracle.com]
> >
> > POSIX doesn't allow us to have special dot files/directories outside
> > filesystem root directories.
>
> So? Tell it to Netapp. They don't seem to have any
Richard Elling wrote:
> IIRC, POSIX does not permit hard links to directories. Moving or renaming
> the directory structure gets disconnected from the original because these
> are relative relationships. Clearly, NetApp achieves this in some manner
> which is not constrained by POSIX -- a manner
On Apr 22, 2010, at 4:50 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>
>> Repeating my previous question in another way...
>> So how do they handle "mv home/joeuser home/moeuser" ?
>> Does that mv delete all snapshots below home/joeuser?
>> To make this
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
To move closer to RFE status ... I think the description would have to be
written in verbage pertaining to zfs which is more than I know. I can
describe how they each work, but I can't make it technical enough to be an
RFE for zfs.
Someone would a
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> Repeating my previous question in another way...
> So how do they handle "mv home/joeuser home/moeuser" ?
> Does that mv delete all snapshots below home/joeuser?
> To make this work in ZFS, does this require that the mv(1)
> command only
On 22/04/2010 00:14, Jason King wrote:
It still has the issue that the end user has to know where the root of
the filesystem is in the tree (assuming it's even accessible on the
system -- might not be for an NFS mount).
For CIFS ZFS provides the Volume Shadow Service (Previous Versions in
Wind
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Richard Elling
wrote:
> Repeating my previous question in another way...
> So how do they handle "mv home/joeuser home/moeuser" ?
> Does that mv delete all snapshots below home/joeuser?
If you wanted to go into home/joeuser/.snapshot , I think you'd have
to look
On Apr 21, 2010, at 7:27 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>
>> So you are saying that the OnTap .snapshot directory is equivalent to a
>> symlink
>> to $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot? That would "solve" the directory shuffle
>> problem.
>
> Not qu
> If you did the symlink .snapshot --> $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot, and somehow
> made
> that magically appear in every directory all the time, you would have
> this:
> /share/home/joeuser/foo/.snapshot/bestsnapever/home/joeuser/foo/bar
> /share/home/joeuser/.snapshot/bestsnapever/home/joeuser/foo/bar
>
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> So you are saying that the OnTap .snapshot directory is equivalent to a
> symlink
> to $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot? That would "solve" the directory shuffle
> problem.
Not quite.
In Ontap, all you do is go into .snapshot, and select which
> From: Nicolas Williams [mailto:nicolas.willi...@oracle.com]
>
> POSIX doesn't allow us to have special dot files/directories outside
> filesystem root directories.
So? Tell it to Netapp. They don't seem to have any problem with it.
___
zfs-discuss
It still has the issue that the end user has to know where the root of
the filesystem is in the tree (assuming it's even accessible on the
system -- might not be for an NFS mount).
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Brandon High wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
> wrote
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
wrote:
> At present, the workaround I have for zfs is:
> ln -s .zfs/snapshot snapshot
> This makes the snapshot directory plainly visible to all NFS and CIFS users.
> Easy to find every time, easy to remember. Especially important for Mac
Nicolas Williams wrote:
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 01:03:39PM -0500, Jason King wrote:
ISTR POSIX also doesn't allow a number of features that can be turned
on with zfs (even ignoring the current issues that prevent ZFS from
being fully POSIX compliant today). I think an additional option for
the
Richard Elling wrote:
So you are saying that the OnTap .snapshot directory is equivalent to a symlink
to $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot? That would "solve" the directory shuffle problem.
Not quite. It's equivalent(ish) to:
cd "$MYDIR" && mkdir .snapshot && cd .snapshot
for s in "$FSROOT"/.zfs/snapsho
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 01:03:39PM -0500, Jason King wrote:
> ISTR POSIX also doesn't allow a number of features that can be turned
> on with zfs (even ignoring the current issues that prevent ZFS from
> being fully POSIX compliant today). I think an additional option for
> the snapdir property ('
On Apr 21, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>
What happens when you remove the directory?
>>>
>>> Same thing that happens when you remove the .zfs directory. You
>> can't.
>>
>> Are you sure I cannot rmdir on a NetApp?
ISTR POSIX also doesn't allow a number of features that can be turned
on with zfs (even ignoring the current issues that prevent ZFS from
being fully POSIX compliant today). I think an additional option for
the snapdir property ('directory' ?) that provides this behavior (with
suitable warnings ab
POSIX doesn't allow us to have special dot files/directories outside
filesystem root directories.
Nico
--
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> >> What happens when you remove the directory?
> >
> > Same thing that happens when you remove the .zfs directory. You
> can't.
>
> Are you sure I cannot rmdir on a NetApp? That seems like basic
> functionality to me.
>
> Or are you
On 21/04/2010 16:35, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Brandon High wrote:
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
wrote:
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently
difficult
to k
On Apr 21, 2010, at 8:35 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>
>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Brandon High wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
>>> wrote:
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Brandon High wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
> > wrote:
> >> there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently
> difficult
> >> to know how far back up the t
> From: Brandon High [mailto:bh...@freaks.com]
>
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
> wrote:
> > there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently
> difficult
> > to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct
> ".zfs"
> > subdirectory, and
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Tim Haley
>
> You can see it with ls:
> # ls -ld -% all /net/server/export/ws/timh/nvc
> drwxr-xr-x 9 timh staff 13 Apr 21 01:25
> /net/server/export/ws/timh/nvc/
> time
On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Brandon High wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
> wrote:
>> there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
>> to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct ".zfs"
>> subdirectory, and then y
On 04/21/10 08:45 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Mark Shellenbaum [mailto:mark.shellenb...@oracle.com]
You can create/destroy/rename snapshots via mkdir, rmdir, mv inside
the
.zfs/snapshot directory, however, it will only work if you're running
the
command locally. It will not work fro
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:45:24AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> > From: Mark Shellenbaum [mailto:mark.shellenb...@oracle.com]
> > >
> > > You can create/destroy/rename snapshots via mkdir, rmdir, mv inside
> > the
> > > .zfs/snapshot directory, however, it will only work if you're running
> >
> From: Mark Shellenbaum [mailto:mark.shellenb...@oracle.com]
> >
> > You can create/destroy/rename snapshots via mkdir, rmdir, mv inside
> the
> > .zfs/snapshot directory, however, it will only work if you're running
> the
> > command locally. It will not work from a NFS client.
> >
>
> It will
On 04/21/10 03:24 AM, Darren J Moffat wrote:
On 21/04/2010 05:09, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
The .zfs/snapshot directory is most certainly available over NFS.
I'm not sure you'v
On 21/04/2010 05:09, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
The .zfs/snapshot directory is most certainly available over NFS.
I'm not sure you've been following this thread. Nobody said .zf
On 4/21/10 6:49 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
And you can
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
>
> > From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> > boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
> >
> > And you can even create, rename and des
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
wrote:
> there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
> to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct ".zfs"
> subdirectory, and then you need to figure out the name of the snapshots
There is
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
>
> The .zfs/snapshot directory is most certainly available over NFS.
I'm not sure you've been following this thread. Nobody said .zfs/snapshot
wasn't available over NFS. It
Nicolas Williams wrote:
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 04:28:02PM +, A Darren Dunham wrote:
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 09:03:33AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
"zfs list -t snapshot" lists in time order.
Good to know. I'll keep that in mind for my "zfs send" scripts but it's not
relevant for the
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 04:28:02PM +, A Darren Dunham wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 09:03:33AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> > > "zfs list -t snapshot" lists in time order.
> >
> > Good to know. I'll keep that in mind for my "zfs send" scripts but it's not
> > relevant for the case at
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 09:03:33AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> > "zfs list -t snapshot" lists in time order.
>
> Good to know. I'll keep that in mind for my "zfs send" scripts but it's not
> relevant for the case at hand. Because "zfs list" isn't available on the
> NFS client, where the us
> From: Kyle McDonald [mailto:kmcdon...@egenera.com]
>
> I think I saw an ARC case go by recently for anew 'zfs diff' command. I
> think it allows you compare 2 snapshots, or maybe the live filesystem
> and a snapshot and see what's changed.
>
> It sounds really useful, Hopefully it will integrate
On 4/17/2010 9:03 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>
It would be cool to only list files which are different.
>>> Know of any way to do that?
>>>
>> cmp
>>
> Oh, no. Because cmp and diff require reading both files, it could take
> forever, especially if you have a lot of
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
> >
> > Um ... All the same time.
> > Even if I "stat" those directories ...
> > Access: Modify: and Change: are all useless...
>
> which is why you need to stat the destination :-)
Ahh. I see it now.
By stat'ing the destination instead
On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>
>> There are some interesting design challenges here. For the general
>> case, you
>> can't rely on the snapshot name to be in time order, so you need to
>> sort by the
>> mtime of
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> There are some interesting design challenges here. For the general
> case, you
> can't rely on the snapshot name to be in time order, so you need to
> sort by the
> mtime of the destination.
Actually ...
drwxr-xr-x 16 root root 20 Ma
On Apr 16, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Freddie Cash wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Richard Elling
> wrote:
> Or maybe you just setup your tracker.cfg and be happy?
>
> What's a "tracker.cfg", and how would it help ZFS users on non-Solaris
> systems? ;)
tracker is the gnome answer to spotli
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Richard Elling wrote:
> Or maybe you just setup your tracker.cfg and be happy?
>
What's a "tracker.cfg", and how would it help ZFS users on non-Solaris
systems? ;)
--
Freddie Cash
fjwc...@gmail.com
___
zfs-discuss mai
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 02:19:47PM -0700, Richard Elling wrote:
> On Apr 16, 2010, at 1:37 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote:
> > I've a ksh93 script that lists all the snapshotted versions of a file...
> > Works over NFS too.
> >
> > % zfshist /usr/bin/ls
> > History for /usr/bin/ls (/.zfs/snapshot/*/us
On Apr 16, 2010, at 1:37 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 01:54:45PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> If you've got nested zfs filesystems, and you're in some subdirectory where
>> there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
>> to know how far b
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 01:54:45PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> If you've got nested zfs filesystems, and you're in some subdirectory where
> there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
> to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct ".zfs"
If you've got nested zfs filesystems, and you're in some subdirectory where
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct ".zfs"
subdirectory, and then you need to figure out the name of the snapshots
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