I can think of several other ones that would qualify. Conventionally, the Bowman Javelin is a good pick, though it really is a HLG, it thermals spectacularly if you build it light. Unconventially, try the Red Herring or Zagi THL. Cheers, Nathan Woods Webmaster: www.boomerangwings.com Temple Hill Slope Squadron Orange, California http://home.earthlink.net/~windrider007/index.html RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]