Bill Those ogf us outside US also look up, every day every where. OK I still have my FM tattoos in my lids, we are brought up like that. It is more fun in developing countries(!). Today I was in a mall in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Heads about 10 ft below ceiling, in the supermarket over shelves some large areas accidentally missed during design to. start off with. Better was the smoke detectors also 8 to 12 ft below ceiling, some with a lovely red plastic cover on them. My hotel (a big US chain) has Omegas intact, some painted over to match the cveiling/wall colour scheme, only God knows how many coats! Cheers
Jack Kilavuz Sent via BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Minkel" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04/03/2008 01:54 AM To: <sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: Do you look up? THIS MESSAGE ORIGINATED ON THE INTERNET - Please read the detailed disclaimer below. ***************************************************************************** Nothing is perfect, I look around also and see things. There is no good way to bring it to the attention of anyone who cares. One can hope any deficiency will eventually be noted during an annual inspection and rectified. Really the only entity with the power to walk around and note deficiencies and demand they be fixed is the Fire Department. More effort put into annual inspections by the Fire Department would correct much of this I suspect. Bill Minkel, Designer Western States Fire Protection, Dallas NFPA Member #2578666 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 12:29 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Do you look up? I imagine, like me, you all (ya'll for some of you) on the very rare occasions you are not working look around at sprinkler systems where you live, shop and play. It's a very rare occasion I don't see something that appears deficient. For example, in a grocery store the one head on the back side of the main is missing over HPS and a mess of piping creating a ceiling without heads under them, at a Home Depot 190 psi on the wet side of an auxiliary dry valve, or the local high school with sidewall heads about 15-20' down from the peak of the very large skylight. This is all in the last two days as an example but see similar all the time. The sad part is I'm not really trying. What if I had the plans and calcs, how much more would there be? Or really looked at the whole building instead of a casual look at where I happen to be? Or the scary part what if I actually considered the hazard vs. the design? I also realize two issues - most times what I see probably won't cause the system to fail in a fire IF that is the only thing wrong. There is a "probably" and an "if " in the last sentence which means there are cases that will fail, just not many IMHO. And second we make mistakes too. The heads at the peak - just because an AHJ didn't call it a deficiency doesn't mean it's OK. Certainly it is possible there is a documented and proactively approved alternate method out there on this but I strongly doubt it. Now I'm sure the missing head has a perfectly rational explanation of how it got like that. The W.O. is there and it must be plugged or the system is off. It's not a TI thing long after the original construction; this is a very new building. Can't rationalize how you get 190 psi by accident or approval. MN is more regulated than most (but not all) areas. Do you see this stuff too? What if anything can you really do about it? Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) **************************************************************************** The following message has been automatically added by the mail gateway to comply with a Royal & SunAlliance IT Security requirement. As this email arrived via the Internet you should be cautious about its origin and content. 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