Don' t over look the other possibilities 1. The FPE/ME sat down long and hard and really meant exactly what was produced in the construction documents based on their judgment? It's a 13D with some modifications as shown? 2. The design team and AHJ traded other perhaps totally non-fire related issues for a different sprinkler design?
And whether Steve's scenario is correct or the above is correct none of it really matters if you already signed the contract. You are looking at installing 13D with modified densities. Certainly odd doesn't violate code. Supporting background isn't necessary on the drawings. For the record I'd bet with Steve on this one. Just don't go flying off the handle and later find the above and you are held to the contract you signed and if you walk away the CG pulls your bond.....and the bond company comes and takes your first born and sends you the bill on top of that. Chris Cahill, PE* Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation & Facilities Group Burns & McDonnell 8201 Norman Center Drive Bloomington, MN 55437 Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 [email protected] www.burnsmcd.com Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered in: MN -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:05 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Residential Question Just got into the office, Left Coast Style. I don't know where to begin on this one - you apparently have a set of construction documents that include an FPE or ME's take on the basis of design for fire sprinklers? And they specify 13D and then map the compartments into hazard groups? What hazard did the classify the fire pump room? Is it 2-hr. construction? Sorry, no more sarcasm. IMHO a halfway house (i.e. group home) should be a 13R, not a 13D design. 13R addresses areas outside the dwelling units and defers to 13 for hazard groups, so the EOR's basis of design MAY be sort of on the right track but his or her choice of the applicable standard is not congruent. Also, I recommend that you forget about "density" when applying residential sprinklers per 13D and 13R; instead, refer to the manufacturer's data sheets as many (most?)) residential sprinklers have minimum flows that exceed .05 density, especially sidewalls and sloped ceiling applications. I don't believe you've lost your mind, but if you stay in this business you most certainly will. To maintain sanity and gain perspective on how to deal with projects like this, I recommend you read a book called "A Confederacy of Dunces." The foregoing is my opinion only and does not necessarily represent the opinion or intent of the NFPA 13D/13R Technical Committee on Residential Sprinkler Systems, nor is it intended to psychologically profile Architects, Fire Protection Engineers, etc. Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Residential Question It's being used as a halfway house, the specs and drawings call it out as a 13D system, attic and crawl spaces not sprinkled etc. Sent From My iPhone.. On Sep 19, 2012, at 9:57 AM, "IPA" <[email protected]> wrote: > If it's truly a 13d system it is a min of .05 density throughout - > there are no light or ordinary hazard areas. Is it possible that this > 'house' is being used for something other than single family living > such as a nursery home, school, or something else requiring additional sprinkler protection? > Just because something looks like a house doesn't mean it's going to > be used as one. Otherwise sounds like it could just be a confused architect. > > > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Brian Harris <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I admit I don't do many residential systems so this questions might >> seem strange but I have a 13D system and there are notes on the FP >> drawings that are calling some areas Light Hazard & some Ordinary >> Hazard & then list the densities accordingly. Here's where the >> confusion comes in, if it's a 13D system would I design the whole >> thing to 0.05/sq.ft ? The residential heads spec'd out are all figured that way as well. Have I totally lost my mind? >> >> Brian Harris, CET >> BVS Systems Inc. >> Sprinkler Division >> bvssystemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/> >> Phone: 704.896.9989 >> Fax: 704.896.1935 >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/atta >> chments/20120919/e26771ac/attachment.html >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/atta > chments/20120919/2d2d2c82/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
