I agree there is some confusion in 910 when not required to have smoke and heat venting and draft curtains because of the 'otherwise installed' in 901.1. I don't know if I have the definitive answer because the more I read it the more confused I get. We're otherwise installing them due to 13. So once we do that IFC 910 kicks in?
Here's another twist. 910.2 is where required and it only requires smoke and heat venting in certain cases, 50,000 sq.ft. F-1 and S-1 and HPS. 901.3 is the design and installation of vents and curtains, NOT where required. One could argue DC's are never required by the IFC because if they were it should be in the where required section of 910.2. Moving back to the otherwise installed of 910.1 the how to design section certainly seems to say 4' minimum. I'd counter the more specific requirement of NFPA 13 takes precedence. Yes, I know Codes trump Standards. But this is not a case of Codes requires one thing and Standard requires another. The curtains are for different purposes. IFC has draft curtains for control smoke, NFPA 13 is to prevent the wrong heads from operating. I also defer to the NFPA committees over ICC committees as NFPA are specialists in the subject at hand. ICC covers a lot more ground and are thus more generalists. In-other-words do you put your faith in someone that is interested in sprinklers (NFPA 13) or fire code administration, fire truck access, emergency planning, egress, fire alarm, fire suppression, fire sprinklers, aviation, dry cleaning, lumber yards, hazardous materials ........ the sprinkler guys say 2' is good enough the generalists wrote a confusing section. I'm certainly not bashing ICC I just don't believe anyone can be that good in EVERYTHING. I'll also admit a bias against smoke and heat venting and curtains as they have been shown to fail sprinklers in some cases. Or at least a bias in these industrial type occupancies vs. highrises and atriums. If the sprinklers work there is a lot of cold smoke and vents and curtains provide marginal benefit. If the sprinklers don't work there will shortly be a vent right near the fire, lol. Chris Cahill, PE* Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation & Facilities Group Burns & McDonnell 8201 Norman Center Drive Bloomington, MN 55437 Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 [email protected] www.burnsmcd.com Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered in: MN -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Draft curtain I see an Exception from the area requirements of Table 910.3 but there is no exception from the need to separate ESFR from conventional. So when there is a need for a draft curtain there would be a minimum 4 ft depth. Perhaps someone can help me with this. I am not involved with storage 24/7. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bobby Gillett Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Draft curtain Thank you both. I did mean IFC Bill - thank you. The only reason for the draft curtain is due to the different response elements of the sprinklers as Chris said. Looking at IFC 2006 910.3.5 it appears my situation qualifies for the "Exception" and I can apply the 2'-0 depth as referenced in NFPA13 2007 8.4.6.4. It will be smoke tight. Thanks again. Bobby Gillett Sr. Project Manager Key Fire Protection, Inc. (731) 424-0130 office (731) 424-9285 fax (731) 267-4853 cell www.keyfireprotection.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Draft curtain Table 910.3 and Section 910.3.5 of the 2006 International FIRE Code if this is adopted. It notes the ESFR to non-ESFR boundary. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bobby Gillett Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:56 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Draft curtain Thank you - 2006 IBC - do you know the label of the section its in - I glanced and didn't see it. Bobby Gillett Sr. Project Manager Key Fire Protection, Inc. (731) 424-0130 office (731) 424-9285 fax (731) 267-4853 cell www.keyfireprotection.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:48 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Draft curtain See 2009 International Fire Code for some guidelines/requirements before you confirm the depth of the curtain or the construction. Just using this reference as an example since you didn't specify the applicable code in this jurisdiction. I don't think the cover on both sides is necessary. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Byron Weisz - Cen-Cal Fire Systems Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Draft curtain That is a Building Code issue Byron Weisz Cen-Cal Fire Systems, Inc. 1615 So. Stockton St. Lodi, CA. 95240 Ph. (209) 334-9119 Fax (209) 334-2923 [email protected] This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication and attachments is strictly prohibited. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bobby Gillett Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:50 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Draft curtain Importance: High We have a project that we are demo'ing a pipe schedule system and installing a ESFR system for storage. There is an adjacent area of the building that will have a pipe schedule system w/standard response sprinklers in it. Per NFPA13 2007 8.4.6.4 the owner will provide a draft curtain since a wall is out of the question in this area. The draft curtain will be 2'-0 down from the deck constructed of non-combustible materials and sealed at the deck (probably smoke caulk). The owner is going to provide a 4'-0 clear aisle centered on the curtain (2'-0 each way). The contractor plans on using metal studs and roof decking material for the curtain. The question is, do the studs have to be covered each side or is putting the decking on one side sufficient? I didn't see anything as far as thickness of curtain or that would lead me to believe it would have to be covered each side. Thank you, Bobby Gillett Sr. Project Manager Key Fire Protection, Inc. (731) 424-0130 office (731) 424-9285 fax (731) 267-4853 cell <http://www.keyfireprotection.com> www.keyfireprotection.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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