I agree with everything you said Tom ... except your concluding paragraph seems to have kicked the legs out from under your point that better documentation is helpful, and necessary in this case. I would like to see the WE manual significantly enhanced.
I don't see anything wrong with the idea of a volunteer taking over the production of tutorials. He/she could create a site (such as a Window-Eyes wiki or better a media wiki), which lists their tutorials and what's covered, and links to the audio/video of the tutorial, and allows for comments on each tutorial. I did just this with the scripting tutorials, creating my own web site, until GW offered to host them on their own servers. I'm not offering to do this a second time, but I am encouraging Sky or anyone else who feels like trying it to give it a try; I really knew nothing about producing tutorials when I did the scripting ones, but I knew that I never would learn unless I decided to give it a try. It doesn't have to be a single person either; the AppleVis team is a good example of how well multiple people can work together to produce useful, high quality, material. Chip -----Original Message----- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+lists3717=comcast....@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Tom Kingston via Talk Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 10:55 PM To: wohlg...@gmail.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: Who's going to take over the tutorials now that Mark is gone? Jim, I agree with you on more than one way to do things. I don't think the comparison with algebra is quite spot on but the idea is. In something like algebra different methods just click better with some people. So choice is good. But I often find the single explanations of how to do something on our computer is the long way around, i.e. creating a shortcut reduces it to one key combination rather than several steps. But of course teaching one how to best maximize their productivity certainly isn't the responsibility of screen reader developers. On the other hand I do agree with Sky regarding the writing of manuals. Good documentation is in my opinion an art form. I'm not saying that the WE manuals are particularly bad, but there is certainly room for improvement. When the new manuals were written a lot of material was left out or so minimized that the scant explanations really tell the user nothing. But of course writing documentation is the last thing most developers want to focus on or spend time on. And Sky is right about information overload. Patience is often rare and quitting is always easier. So it's somewhat of a no win situation. Regards, Tom On 8/30/2016 9:37 PM, Jim via Talk wrote: > Sky, I would > > like to respectfully disagree with your suggestion. When I was taking > an algebra class in college, my professor would give several methods for > solving problems. A lot of students didn't like this. I happen to be > in the minority. I liked it, because if one method didn't work I would > have another method to try. For example, some students liked to use > graphing to solve a problem while I preferred using the quadratic > formula to solve problems when that was possible. I feel that the more > ways we have to solve an issue the better off we are. OK, I understand > that for a beginner too many ways might be a bit confusing, but as long > as one isn't overwhelmed with info, having more than one way to solved a > problem deffinetly works well for me! Just another suggestion. Have A > Good 1! de > <KF8LT><Jim>. > On 30-Aug-16 21:23, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote: >> Sorry Sky, but I just can't resist. Are you applying for the position >> <smile>? >> >> On 8/30/2016 7:44 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote: >>> Well, Steven Klower does the Window-Eyes tutorials, but I have a few >>> suggestions for how the tutorials could be improved. >>> >>> 1. When training clients, I always stick to one way of doing things. >>> What >>> that means, is I only do one method of showing the clents how to do >>> things. >>> Showing multiple ways can often clutter up the mind of the person who is >>> learning any screen reader, such as Window-Eyes. >>> >>> 2. The tutorials need to be presented in a easier-to-understand >>> language. It >>> should provide steps for accomplishing things, such as, to open up >>> Microsoft >>> word, do the following. >>> >>> 1. press the windows logo key. The windows logo key is located on the >>> bottom >>> left side of the keyboard, next to the left control key. >>> >>> 2. Type in the words word to open up Microsoft word. Once you do that, >>> Window-Eyes will say your version number of office word, such as >>> 2010, 2013, >>> or 2016. >>> >>> 3. After typing in the words word, press enter to open up Microsoft >>> office >>> word 2010. >>> >>> I would also suggest that the manual be re-written in an easier to >>> understand language. I have read the manual and to me it doesn't >>> sound like >>> it is written in an easier to understand language for some people. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On >>> Behalf Of Charles Short via Talk >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 5:15 PM >>> To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com >>> Subject: Who's going to take over the tutorials now that Mark is gone? >>> >>> Hello, who's going to take over the tutorials now that Mark is gone? >>> .would >>> anybody know? >>> >>> >>> Charlie Short >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author >>> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/skyt%40shaw.ca >>> >>> . >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/larryhiggins22 %40comcast.net. >>> >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/wohlggie%40gma il.com. >> >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tom.kingston%4 0charter.net. > > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lists3717%40co mcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
