DAVEH: My latest post is in GREEN........blue for JD
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 4/5/2005 8:54:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth.
DAVEH: If you really don't want to continue, John...so be it. But I would still like to know why you do not consider yourself a Protestant. Which of the reasons mentioned in your definition.........
......do you not accept, which would disqualify you from being a Protestant? I have assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that you........
1) deny the authority of the Pope I do not accept the authority of anyone other than the word in my life. Impute - yes; authority - no.
2) belief in justification by faith alone justification at the point of faith -- not faith alone;
DAVEH: Hmmmmmmmmm.......I fail to understand the distinction. Paul tells us that we are "justified" by faith apart from obedience to [moral and ceremonial] law. That occurs because of the faith of Christ -- God seeing that and accepting it as our righteousness. This blessing occurs "in Christ" via the Incarnation which presented all of mankind reconciled to God. James tells us that we are "justified by works and not by faith alone." The legalist or "works salvationists" see this as a statement implying specific and prescribed works -- hear, believe, confess, repent, be baptized. The student of James, the letter, sees this as visiting the fatherless, the widows, honoring the poor ------ that sort of thing (in fact, James does not even allude to the traditional legalese of modern Christianity.) Such works, James tells the student, is evidence of a personal faith. One is "required" (the faith of Christ counted as our righteousness) and the other is an _expression_ of our justification and is viewed by James as an action that continues our justification. We have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.
and we are "in Christ" and this "faith" is a connection between my faith and the faith of Jesus, Himself ------------------------- biblically speaking "faith unto faith."
3) believe in a priesthood of all believers I do not know what this means.
DAVEH: ??? Excepting my possible misstating it as a paraphrase.....you suggested it in your definition of Protestant. So....why would you not know what it means, John? Actaully, I gave you a dictionary definiton -- not mine. Why would I be responsible for someone else's definition.
Perhaps it has something to do with what I have already said.
4) accept the Bible as the only source of revealed truth Nope. It is my primary source of "authority, but certainly not the only one. We, I, receive "truth" from a number of sources.
DAVEH: What other revealed sources do you use, John? You capitalize or highlight "revealed." Perhaps you use this term in a different way than I do. All (spiritual) "truth" comes from the Father of Lights. He is the primary source. He is the revealer. Joseph saw the revealed truth regarding his life of separation from his family as a providential consideration. Others experience a still small voice. Paul experienced a subjective but unmistakeable conversation with God as revelatory; Peter received revelation in dreams. Others receive revealed truth from prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, apostles. Where two or more are gathered together, the Revealer is present. Spirit filling occurs or is to occur during those creative times we share with each other in song, hymns and spiritual songs (Eph 5:19). I recieved a word of knowledge, as I call it, from a retired pastor in the Mississippi meeting. I was used to supply a bible to someone who had torn his book into a thousand pieces. There was a gift of one of the TTer's that presented me with a whole world of revealed truth -- writings of fellow saints through whom God has ministered his Word for years and years. and a friend or four who sharing what God has given to them. Shall I continue?
None of them conflict with the biblical message.
5) and my simplistic definition: accept the Trinity Doctrine Truth be told -- no.
DAVEH: Ohhhhhhh.....I do find that curious. I didn't think there were many (any) TTers who did not accept the T-Doctrine. Thanx for sharing that with me.
I believe in the Father and the Son.
DAVEH: Do you believe they are one? If so, in what sense?
the Holy (what else would "he" be?) Spirit is the Father and/or the Son at work in this world, in my life, in the community of the saints, etc. Paul tells us that the Spirit is Christ.
........So John, I don't want to pigeon hole you in a category you don't feel is proper. Which of the above criteria do you reject?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We have an earlier post (this evening) that is a much better start than this one. You want me to be a Portestant, no argument. Call me anything you want -- just don't don't call me late to dinner. Let's trash this post -- shall we?
Jd
What is going on here, with me, is that I did not like the way I responded to you in this post and would rather start over
DAVEH: Ohhhhhh.....now I think I understand....a little....
------------- perhaps we are on the right track.
Jd
