Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
DAVEH: I'd like to comment on that and about a dozen other posts sitting in my TT inbox, but I simply need to get some sleep at night. And....I'm leaving town tomorrow for a few days, and then next week promises to be hectic, inasmuch as I have a Japanese contingent coming for the best part of a week's visit.
BTW....Give me a hint, Kevin....How do you have so much time to post so much? Do you get by an a half hour sleep at night??? :-\
Kevin Deegan wrote:No comment Dave?
Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:DAVEH says: nor does he discuss to my satisfaction the oneness of God as it applies to man as found in Jn 17:21.
JN 17:21, Speaks of the INDWELLING of God IN His people. Notice also it says "ONE IN" JN 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art IN me, and I IN thee, that they also may be one IN us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
This can not mean "one in purpose" for Jesus says the Father is IN him and He is IN the Father.
INDWELLING JN 14:10 Believest thou not that I am IN the Father, and the Father IN me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
JN 10:30 I and my Father are one. The Jews pick up stones to stone him (v. 31) Jesus asks them why (v. 32), and they answer, "because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God" (v. 33). They understood this as claiming to be God. Again it can not mean "one in purpose", Jesus was claiming to be God AND IN God that you may know and understand that the Father is IN me, and I IN the Father." (v. 38)
Jesus says the Fathers "men" are his and his "men" are the Fathers JN 17:10 all mine are thine, and thine are mine
Jesus says John 14:9: "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father."
Jesus is the IMAGE of the invisible God Col 1:15 image of the invisible God (men of Flesh & Bone are NOT invisible)
Jesus is the EXPRESS "IMAGE" of his person Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his personJesus shared the same "glory" as the father before the world was JN 17 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
IN Jesus dwells ALL the fulness of the GODHEAD Col 2:9 For IN him dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead bodily. verse 10 tells us we are COMPLETE in Jesus, Whatever the Godhead is it is ALL available in Jesus! Verse 10 ALL power dwells in Jesus also.
Jesus being eternally the IMAGE and FORM of God, at a point in time, lowered himself (not progressed) to become the LIKENESS on MAN! If he became "made in the Likeness of men" he could not have been in that LIKENESS before that point in time. He was God who became a MAN not a man who became a "god" He was God, who became manifest in the Flesh 1 Tim 3:16 Ph 2:6-7 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men
Christ IN you?
Col 1;27 Christ IN you, the hope of glory
2 Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is IN you, except ye be reprobates?
Ep 3:17 That Christ may DWELL in your hearts by faith
No Christ IN you? Then you are a REPROBATE!
You do not have to wait; His GLORY is available NOW!
2 Thes 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:DAVEH: I also find it curious that the author does not discuss the plural meaning of Elohim, nor does he address some key passages such as Mt 5:48 nor does he discuss to my satisfaction the oneness of God as it applies to man as found in Jn 17:21. Likewise, he doesn't address the nature of the Godhead very well. In short, there is a lot I find lacking in this rather lengthy summary.I will try to keep it short & to the pointGen 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"
The main verb as well as the pronouns are all plural. This would indicate that God is the "Us" and "Our" who is speaking.
God uses the plural in REFERENCE to his "IMAGE & LIKENESS"!
In the Hebrew the singular form for God is Eloah
The Hebrew plural is Elohim
To refer to two the Hebrew could have used the dual form ElohiayimGen 1:27 "So God created man in his own image"God then creates man in his image singular not the "our image" of "plural gods"USE OF ECHAD INSTEAD OF YACHID
The hebrew word ECHAD expresses a compound oneness not a absolute one as expressed by Yachid
Gen. 1:5: The yom echad (first day) is a combination of two things - the evening and the morning.
"a single [echad] cluster of grapes" Numbers 13:23
"they will become one [echad] flesh." Genesis 2:24
Adam and Eve became "one flesh" but they were both still separate individuals. We see them as two but God says they are one. Obviously they did not "become" one in purpose, they became ONE FLESH! There is something you keep missing here.The Jewish SHEMA Du 6:4 "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord"
KJV Jehovah is translated Lord
KJV Elohim is translated as God
So it could be translated "Jehovah our Elohim is ONE (ECHAD) Jehovah"
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:DAVEH: Whew! That is a lot of stuff, Perry. After reading through it though, I find much I'd dispute, starting with.......
G-3: Jesus is clearly not the Son of God in a literal sense, i.e., He was not physically procreated by
God
........As you might suspect Perry, I do believe Jesus is clearly and literally, the Son of God.
I also find it curious that the author does not discuss the plural meaning of Elohim, nor does he address some key passages such as Mt 5:48 nor does he discuss to my satisfaction the oneness of God as it applies to man as found in Jn 17:21. Likewise, he doesn't address the nature of the Godhead very well. In short, there is a lot I find lacking in this rather lengthy summary.
Charles Perry Locke wrote:The mormon jesus is NOT the Jesus of the Bible, the one we Christians worship. Check out this link for details:
http://www.equip.org/free/DT160.pdf
Perry-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
