Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar bridges
The Bartolotti ciaccona seems to be the one exception. In the rest of the
book there are very few right-hand fingerings (with dots), for some single
notes on the 4th course. Certainly no p-i-p-i runs, and completely
unproblematic with bourdons.
The Ciaccona is an exception because in this particular piece Barto has
taken a lot of trouble to indicate different right-hand techniques. The
other pieces are more conventional but the passing notes
between the chords belong to the upper or inside parts and with bourdons
these are compromised by the octave doubling. One glaring example of this
is the passacaglia on p. 31 in bar 3 where the changing note figure in the
inside part is split between the 4th, 5th and 2nd courses. The significant
point about these idiosyncracies is that you can usually play the notes at
the correct pitch on the upper courses. In the variation in the Ciaccona
which I mentioned you can easily play all the passing notes on the upper
courses. So why split them between courses and then try to omit the
bourdon? The music would never be intabulated in this way if it was
intended to be played on an instrument with a conventional bass-treble
tuning.
There are lots of place in Foscarini - where passing notes on the 4th and
5th courses really belong to the upper melody - the Corrente detta la
Fauorita on p.60 for example.
How do you know? Foscarini used bourdons, and he was not really a
campanela man.
So everyone believes. But it is not self evident that he always used
bourdons and thought that they were essential for all of the music in his
books. If you play the pieces with octave stringing all the passing notes
will sound in parellel octaves - with the upper octave more prominent. Are
you going to leave it out to try and create a bass line?
Everyone believes that Foscarini always used bourdons because he has
included a tuning check which
mentions octaves. He has copied this and all of the alfabeto pieces from a
rather earlier source (mainly Colonna). In doing so he hasn't made any
attempt to correct obvious errors in Colonna. Just one example - the Vilan
di Spagna
on p. 9 of his 1629 book/p.13 in the later versions. He has given the time
signature as 3 but the Vilan di Spagna is in common time. Colonna has
given it the time signature 3. There are other things which Fosco has
copied
wrongly - the instructions for tuning three guitars of different sizes for
example. I
wouldn't regard Foscarini as an infallible source of information. His
arrangements of the lute pieces are not very idomatic and the pieces vary
considerably in style.
[about Bartolotti's gigue from the 2nd book, p 7]
I haven't misunderstood. The first four notes sound in the upper
register (they do when you play it anyway). Then the intervals of the
theme are inverted so that the theme is split into two with a little
question and answer which creates some variety instead of having it
exactly the same. It doesn't have to belong to the bass at all.
This is only true if you have no bourdons at all, as three of the first
four notes are on the 4th course.
Since you imply that you have listened carefully to my recordings, I fear
that your ear is insensitive for lower frequencies.
On the contrary I can hear the lower frequencies all too well - they stand
out like a sore thumb in places because they are unwanted and also because
there is a noticeable difference in timbre between the bourdons and the
other strings.
Almost no one who performs Bartolotti's music seems to think that it is
written with re-entrant stringing in mind.
That proves nothing at all. As the poet Iqbal once said - "From the minds
of 1000 donkeys you will not extract the thought of one man!".
The problem with the baroque guitar is that everyone reads and copies what a
few other people have said before them without checking whether the writers
have seen and reproduced what the original sources say accurately and or
whether their comments and interpretation of them is accurate and up to
date. It is really quite depressing reading most of what is written on the
subject. Very few people with scholarly pretensions in this subject seem
able to think for themselves.
Stadivarius instruments are apparently regarded as untypical. Bartolotti
wouldn't have played one (he was dead by 1688) and may not have had a
slotted bridge so wouldn't have been able to make the adjustments you say
you make.
Bartolotti lived in France. Some Voboams seem to have slots. Who knows who
invented those. Besides, I'm sure we don't know all about Italian guitars.
True - I am sure that my guitar is no more "authentic" than yours. The
point I was trying to make is that probably none of our instruments are the
same as those played by Barto et al. We can't ever know whether the sound
we make is the same as the sound that they made!
And he would have been using plain gut strings not nylgut.
Please explain what would be the difference, for voice leading etc.
It has nothing to do with the voice leading. As usual you are putting the
cart before the horse. If plain gut strings are unproblematic why don't
you use them? In my experience it is difficult to tune plain gut strings
to true octaves. There are problems with fretting - octave courses go
increasingly out of tune as you move down the fingerboard. The difference
in thickness is inconvenient especially on the 5th course. And - the plain
gut bourdon for the 5th course in England costs almost as much as the rest
the strings put together - something which might be off putting for poor
musicians - most of whom lived from hand to mouth in the 17th century.
Sadly the day may come when none of have any choice but to use nylgut.
Anyway I raised the question about the bridges because I though it was
interesting and uncontraversial. I don't think that bridges have slots so
that you can set the treble string lower than the bourdon, although
incidentally some players may have taken advantage of the slots to do this.
I still think that the main reason for slots may have something to do with
the fact that the bridge makes much less contact with the table than a solid
one and that this affects the tone quality in some way. It does also make
it possible to vary the spacing between the strings of a course - although I
think Rocky said it was easier to do this by drilling the holes where you
want them in a solid bridge.
Unfortunately it seems that we can't discuss anything on this list without
it turning into a discussion about the stringing of the guitar. A pity.
As ever
Monica
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