On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:18:34 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In a message dated 12/25/2004 11:13:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > But when Bahais make a big deal out say that "holy war" has been > abrogated it gives the impression that somehow they are more peaceful, > or closer to pacifism, etc. than other religions in principle. when > there are significant exceptions which make that untrue. > Dear Gilberto, > Not necessarily all religions, just the one that immediately proceeded us. > ;-}
Gilberto: That's really not funny. And you certainly picked my comments out of context and ignored the main point. You still haven't convincingly explained or shown why there would be any morally significant difference between the "holy wars" carried out under the leadership of the prophet Muhammad or Imam Hussein and the analagous practices permitted in the Bahai. What practice is a part of proper "holy war" (not its distortions) which would be absolutely ruled out by the Bahai concepts of collective security, "righteous" warfare, and hikmat. In particular, why would the application of hikmat by limited to exclude the possibility of "holy war"? Gilberto: > "But on further examination, it seems like the Bahai claims aren't > significantly different. And the two main examples which come to mind > are gender equality and the use of force." Susan: > I think one only has to look at the relative status of women in these > respective communities to see there is a very real difference indeed. Gilberto: If you "only look" and you don't think about why things are the way the are then one can often end up making lazy sorts of self-serving mistakes. I'm not saying you in particular, but I think it is tempting for alot of Bahais to uncritically assume, embrace, encourage and celebrate stereotypes about Muslims, and not look at changes in Muslim societies over time, not look at the effects of economics, education, politics, colonialism, not even think about Muslims in the West etc. in order to try to say that Islam is inferior. In your own paper, when the Bahais set up in Chicago, the American women already had more progressive ideas about gender equality than were allowed by the faith. They seemed to be chomping at the bit. And as far as use of force goes you still haven't given a straight answer. -Gilberto "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
