The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I believe Islam to be a Divinely ordained religion, just like Judaism,
Buddhism, Christianity, the Baha'i Faith, Zorastrianism, and Hinduism.
Shelf life is a different story.
The way marriage is actually practiced in most Muslim societies is that a
Muslim man is allowed to have a Christian or a Jewish wife but a Muslim woman
cannot have a Jewish or Christian husband unless he first converts to Islam
before the marriage ceremony is allowed to take place.
Best regards,
Iskandar
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Haase <matthewhaa...@gmail.com>
Sender: <bounce-510586-2080...@list.jccc.edu>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 13:16:07
To: Baha'i Studies<bahai-st@list.jccc.edu>
Reply-To: "Baha'i Studies" <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu>
Subject: Re: Ablutions
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Just as you might interpret a lot of things from your own Baha'i Faith
symbolically and metaphorically, perhaps you may also want to give Islam the
same kind of treatment and see what comes from it? I understand that you are
upset by what some of the Mullahs have said about the Baha'is, but I don't
think Islam as a world religion with a billion adherents should be subjected
to what some clerics say. The Qur'an itself allows for interfaith marriages
with the "people of the Book." If all non-Muslims are regarded as "ritually
unclean", then how is it that a Muslim is permitted to have the most
intimate of all relationships with such a person? *"And among His signs is
this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may
dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your
hearts. Verily in that are signs for those who reflect." (Qur'an 30:21) *How
can you "dwell in tranquility" with someone you regard is "ritually impure",
and put "love and mercy between your hearts"? It just doesn't make any sense
to me to say that a Muslim can't be friends or even so far as physically
touch a non-Muslim because they are ritually impure, but yet it's okay to go
a thousand steps further and marry them.
Best Regards
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D.
<iskandar....@gmail.com>wrote:
> The Baha'i Studies Listserv
>
>
> Based on this verse (Quran 9:28) and other hadith, etc. there is decree
> after decree, even in this 21st century, from Muslim clerics that we Baha'is
> are najas, that Muslims should not shake hands with us, marry us, eat with
> us, invite us to their homes, accept invitations for food at Baha'i houses,
> etc., etc.
>
> يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلَا
> يَقْرَبُوا الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَٰذَا ۚ وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ
> عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ إِنْ شَاءَ ۚ إِنَّ
> اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ {28}
> *[Shakir 9:28]* O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean,
> so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you
> fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please;
> surely Allah is Knowing Wise.
> *[Pickthal 9:28]* O ye who believe! The idolaters only are unclean. So let
> them not come near the Inviolable Place of Worship after this their year. If
> ye fear poverty (from the loss of their merchandise) Allah shall preserve
> you of His bounty if He will. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.
> *[Yusufali 9:28]* O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let
> them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye
> fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty,
> for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
> *[Pooya/Ali Commentary 9:28]*
>
> The infidels are unclean both literally and metaphorically. It refers to
> their physical uncleanliness as well as to their impure hearts and souls.
> According to the holy Imams anything wet touched by an idolater should not
> be used unless properly purified.
>
> When the unclean pagans were debarred from entering the sacred precinct of
> Ka-bah, the Muslims began to worry about the profits from trade and
> commerce, but Allah assured them that their welfare and economic position
> will not suffer. This actually happened.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Gilberto Simpson <
> gilberto.simp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Baha'i Studies Listserv
>> In terms of books/references I tend to consult, none of them treat
>> *people* that way. As far as I am concerned, najas only comes up in
>> terms of defining "clean surface" and "clean clothing" in terms of
>> prayer (which in a general sort of way is similar to the Bahai). Also,
>> you aren't supposed to eat najas. But the idea that certain people are
>> supposed to be shunned or treated as untouchable because they are
>> non-Muslim is definitely not a part of Islam. Matt definitely cited
>> several relevant texts on this point...
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 10:12 AM, <iskandar....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > The Baha'i Studies Listserv
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Gilberto:
>> >
>> > The concept of "najas" (untouchable because something is considered
>> ritually impure) does not exist in the Baha'i Faith. My understanding is
>> that in Islam an infidel (kAAfir, or mushrik) is considered "najas", or
>> semen is considered "najas". This "najas" concept (ritual impurity) is
>> non-existent in the Baha'i religion. Otherwise, Baha'is are commanded to be
>> quintessences of refinement and exquisite cleanliness. The term used is
>> "litAAfat" which is rather difficult to translate as one single word in
>> English.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Iskandar
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Gilberto Simpson <gilberto.simp...@gmail.com>
>> > Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 00:59:37
>> > To: Baha'i Studies<bahai-st@list.jccc.edu>
>> > Subject: Re: Ablutions
>> >
>> > The Baha'i Studies Listserv
>> > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:32 PM, Susan Maneck <sman...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv
>> >>> What is the difference between being in a state where one is
>> legally
>> >>> required to perform ablutions and being ritually impure?
>> >>
>> >> Dear Gilberto,
>> >>
>> >> Baha'is perform ablutions before saying their obligatory prayers even
>> >> if they have just had a bath,
>> >
>> > Right and in Islam there are also ways of being clean in a
>> > conventional way while still having to perform wudu/ghusl in order to
>> > pray.
>> >
>> > but the more thorough going ghusl in
>> >> Islam is done after sexual relations or after a women's period. This
>> >> is because semen and menstrual blood render one ritually impure.
>> >
>> > In Islam there are at least two levels of impurity. At one level, wudu
>> > (ablutions) is sufficient. For other things ghusl (a more extensive
>> > degree of ablutions) is necessary.
>> >
>> > I was just looking at different citations on True Seeker and I guess I
>> > understand that there are Bahai writings which say that purity laws
>> > have been abolished. And I suppose it is pretty explicit that semen is
>> > considered ritually clean in the Bahai laws. But there are also
>> > required ablutions for prayer, and rules about menstruating women
>> > praying in a different way and instructions to pray on a clean
>> > surface.
>> >
>> > In the Aqdas provision 75 (I'm not sure how to refer to the
>> > subdivisions) says the concept of uncleanliness has been abolished.
>> > But the very next provision says:
>> >
>> > " God hath enjoined upon you to observe the utmost cleanliness, to the
>> > extent of washing what is soiled with dust, let alone with hardened
>> > dirt and similar defilement. Fear Him, and be of those who are pure.
>> > Should the garb of anyone be visibly sullied, his prayers shall not
>> > ascend to God, and the celestial Concourse will turn away from him.
>> > Make use of rose-water, and of pure perfume; this, indeed, is that
>> > which God hath loved from the beginning that hath no beginning, in
>> > order that there may be diffused from you what your Lord, the
>> > Incomparable, the All-Wise, desireth. "
>> >
>> >
>> > I guess I can't read that and say "The Bahai faith has no concept of
>> > ritual impurity". It seems more accurate to describe it in a more
>> > nuanced way.
>> >
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