The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hi Sen, I think the bahá'í writings rejects the idea of the original sin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin
Also I think the bahá'í writings don't assure the sinlessness of Mary, mother of Jesus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin SAQ, chapter 30: Observe that if, according to the suppositions of the People of the Book, 7 the meaning were taken in its exoteric sense, it would be absolute injustice and complete predestination. If Adam sinned by going near the forbidden tree, what was the sin of the glorious Abraham, and what was the error of Moses the Interlocutor? What was the crime of Noah the Prophet? What was the transgression of Joseph the Truthful? What was the iniquity of the Prophets of God, and what was the trespass of John the Chaste? Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an126 idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person. El Sábado, 16 de noviembre, 2013 7:02 A.M., Sen & Sonja <senmcgl...@gmail.com> escribió: The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 16 Nov 2013 at 1:36, Don Calkins wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > I tho´t there was an authoritative letter saying that we believed in the Virgin Birth but not the immaculate conception of Mary. > I can´t find it, so was i imagining things? We believe in the immaculate conception of everyone, in the sense of their not receiving an original sin transmitted through sexual conception. The higher intent of the Roman Catholic doctrine is to point to the special innocence, purity and sinlessness of Mary, and this is a Bahai teaching, found in the Iqan, where Baha'u'llah says: "reflect upon the state and condition of Mary. So deep was the perplexity of that most beauteous countenance,... How could she claim that a Babe Whose father was unknown had been conceived of the Holy Ghost? Therefore did Mary, that veiled and immortal Countenance, ... (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 55) That the Babe was conceived of the Holy Ghost refers both to the Virgin Birth and to Mary's "virginity" (not necessarily as defined by a hymen, but certainly a continuing station of immaculacy). Look also at how Mary is described: as a most beauteous countenance (Tal`at kabri) and "that veiled and immortal Countenance" (mukhaddarat-e baqaa: ie, she is a virgin kept "behind the curtain" who has her eternal subsistence in God). Hence Shoghi Effendi says that the Iqan "upholds the purity and innocence of the Virgin Mary" (God Passes By, p. 139). The formulation of this that reflects the Islamic background is "the immaculacy of Mary." This immaculacy (like that of Fatimeh and the Imams) is not something achieved during life, it is granted in pre-existence, hence it cannot exclude conception. The formulation "immaculate conception" -- the Catholic term -- turns the focus towards the concept of original sin, since immaculate conception of Mary in Catholicism is a mystery or miracle that is an exception to the rule of inherited sin. It's likely to lead to misunderstandings, and it did: Shoghi Effendi referred to the doctrine of the immaculate conception in Promised Day is Come in 1941: "Count Mastai-Ferretti, [Pius IX) ... will be permanently remembered as the author of the Bull which declared the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin (1854), referred to in the Kitáb-i-Íqán, to be a doctrine of the Church, .... (The Promised Day is Come, p. 53) However he also referred in that letter to the "immaculacy of the Virgin Mary" As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. (The Promised Day is Come, p. 109) The first of these, read carelessly, was often taken as an affirmation of the Virgin Birth of Jesus, since that is what is most clearly affirmed in the Iqan (and in Some Answered Questions, where it is interpreted). Bahais who did not believe in literal miracles had a problem here, for they supposed that Shoghi Effendi was saying that the Iqan affirmed a literal understanding of Virgin Birth. The memory you are chasing is probably this one, a letter dated October 1948, which follows a series of letters on behalf of the Guardian by secretaries who think the Immaculate Conception is another term for the Virgin Birth of Jesus (the letter is cited in a Research Department memorandum) which states: +++++++++++ ...it is clear that the beloved Guardian understood the difference between the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary and the Virgin Birth of Jesus. In October 1948 one of the believers wrote to him questioning Baha'i belief in the Virgin Birth, but referring to it as 'The Immaculate Conception.' The Guardian's reply, which was written by his secretary on his behalf, corrects this misunderstanding while answering the substance of the question: == "At the time when you and your dear husband came into the Faith the teachings were not as fully translated as they are now, and there were many misapprehensions regarding certain matters. One of them seems to have been the "Immaculate Conception" or what we really mean is the Virgin Birth (for the two are different.) The Master clearly writes in a Tablet that Christ was *not* begotten in the ordinary way, but by the Holy Spirit. So we must accept this. Every Faith has some miracles, and this is the great miracle of the Christian Faith.'" == ++++++++++++ The 1948 letter distinguishes two things which were being conflated, and answers the question that was actually being asked : do we believe in the miraculous conception of Jesus and the Virgin Birth? It does not deny that we *also* believe in the Immaculacy of Mary (and of Fatimeh, and the Imams, and the Manifestations of God). This immaculacy is a freedom from sin, from moral error, which is -- to cause another confusion -- translated as infallibility. ~~ Sen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Sen McGlinn senmcgl...@gmail.com http://senmcglinn.wordpress.com *** When, however, thou dost contemplate the innermost essence of things, and the individuality of each, thou wilt behold the signs of thy Lord's mercy . . ." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:hasanel...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-730331-161001.00090f632276bca6fdce1d55fcb23...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-733535-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
