The Sage machines had UCSD as one of their OS options (others were Mirage and
probably also CP/M-68K). I've never heard of a native Pascal for Sage.
Sage had a multi-user BIOS, so you could have several people sharing a single
machine. They were also quite popular and successful for a while.
> On 9 May 2024, at 13:39, Bill Degnan via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> Without doing the research before asking, there was the UCSD p-System
> Pascal for IBM PC which came out very early in the history of the IBM PC.
> It was not very popular. The SAGE II that had native Pascal (68000) was
> not a popular machine. Waterloo Pascal on the SuperPet....Pascal never
> really made it on the microcomputer platform did it?
> Bill
>
> On Thu, May 9, 2024, 2:07 AM david barto via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> At Ken Bowles retirement from UCSD (Ken was the lead of the UCSD Pascal
>> Project) he related a story that IBM came to UCSD after being ‘rejected’ by
>> DR to see if the Regents of the University would license UCSD Pascal (the
>> OS and the language) to IBM for release on the new hardware IBM was
>> developing. The UC Regents said ’no’.
>>
>> He was quite sad that history took the very different course.
>>
>> David
>>
>>> On May 3, 2024, at 6:30 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> PL/M (think "PL/1") was a high level programming language for
>> microprocessors.
>>>
>>> CP/M was also briefly called "Control Program and Monitor"
>>> It was written by Gary Kildall. (May 19, 1942 - july 11, 1994)
>>>
>>> Gary taught at Navy Postgraduate School in Monterey.
>>> He took a break in 1972, to complete his PhD at University of Washington.
>>>
>>> He wrote 8008 and 8080 instruction set simulators for Intel, and they
>> loaned him hardware.
>>>
>>> In 1973? he wrote CP/M.
>>> He offered it to Intel, but they didn't want it, although they marketed
>> the PL/M.
>>>
>>> He and his wife started "Intergalactic Digital Research" in Pacific
>> Grove. Later renamed "Digital Research, Inc."
>>>
>>> CP/M rapidly became a defacto standard as operating system for 8080 and
>> later Z80 computers.
>>>
>>> In the late 1970s, when CP/M computers were available with 5.25" drives,
>> and there were hundreds, soon thousands of different formats, I chatted
>> with Gary, and pleaded with him ot create a "standard" format for 5.25".
>>> His response was a very polite, "The standard format for CP/M is 8 inch
>> single sided single density."
>>> I pointed out that formats were proliferating excessively.
>>> His response was a very polite, "I understand. Sorry, but the standard
>> format for CP/M is 8 inch single sided single density."
>>>
>>>
>>> In 1980? IBM was developing a personal computer. (y'all have heard of
>> it) One of the IBM people had a Microsoft Softcard (Z80 plus CP/M) in his
>> Apple. IBM went to Microsoft, to negotiate BASIC for the new machine, and
>> CP/M.
>>>
>>> Bill Gates explained and sent them to Digital Research.
>>>
>>> When the IBM representatives arrived, Gary was flying his plane up to
>> Oakland to visit Bill Godbout. He hadn't seen a need to be present, and
>> assumed that Dorothy would take care of the [presumably completely routine]
>> paperwork. While visiting Bill godbout, and delivering some software was
>> important, it WAS something that a low level courier could have done.
>>>
>>>
>>> There was a little bit of a culture clash.
>>> The IBM people were all in identical blue suits.
>>> The DR people were in sandals, barefoot, shorts, t-shirts, braless
>> women, with bicycles, surfboard, plants and even cats in the office,
>>>
>>> The IBM people demanded a signed non=disclosure ageement before talking.
>> Dorothy Kildall refused.
>>>
>>> When Dorothy got Gary on the phone, it is unreliably reported that he
>> said, "well, let them sit on the couch and wait their turn like the rest of
>> the customers."
>>>
>>> It is also been said that DR people upstairs saw the IBM people marching
>> up, and thought that it was a drug raid. I have stood in that bay window
>> overlooking the front door, and can believe that.
>>>
>>> IBM chose to not do business with DR and went back to Microsoft.
>>> When billg was unable to convince them that Microsoft was not in the
>> operating system business, Microsoft went into the operating system
>> business. They bought an unlimited license to QDOS (Tim Paterson's work at
>> Seattle Computer Products). They also hired Tim Paterson.
>>>
>>> DR was working on CP/M-86, but it was a ways off.
>>> Paterson had written QDOS ("Quick and Dirty Operating System") as a
>> placeholder to be able to continue development while waiting for CP/M-86
>>> We've mentioned before, that Tim Paterson got the idea for the directory
>> structure from Microsoft Standalone BASIC. As Chuck pointed out, that was
>> not a new invention, merely a choice of which way to do it.
>>>
>>> billg knew how to deal with officious managers. It is unreliably said
>> that he told the Microsoft people, "Everybody who does not own a suit, stay
>> home tomorrow!"
>>>
>>> IBM insisted that Micorsoft beef up security. window shades, locks on
>> doors that normally weren't, locks on file cabinets, etc.
>>> It is unreliably said that to throw off anyboy who heard about it, that
>> Microsoft referred to the IBm project as "Project Commodore"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> dr continued to sell CP/M.
>>> When the 5150/:PC was ready, IBM announced it with PC-DOS, which was a
>> renaming of MS-DOS,renaming 86-DOS, renaming QDOS.
>>>
>>> If I recall correctly theprice was $40 (or maybe $60?)
>>>
>>>
>>> DR pointed out that NS-DOS was extremely similar to CP/M.
>>>
>> https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~johnsojr/2012-13/fall/cs370/resources/An%20Inside%20Look%20at%20MS-DOS.pdf
>>> IBM didn't consider it a problem, andsimply offered to ALSO sell
>> CP/M-86, particularly since they were already also marketing UCSD P-System.
>>>
>>> CP/M-86 was not available yet, so everybody buying a disk based PC
>> bought PC-DOS.
>>> But, most of us assumed thata CP/M-86 would become the standard once it
>> came out, and PC-DOS was similar and let us use the machines while waiting.
>>>
>>> CP/M-86 took a long time to come out (6 months is a LONG time in such
>> things).
>>> When it did, the price was $240.
>>> There are disagreemnets about whether DR or IBM had set the price point.
>>>
>>> Most decided to keep using Pc-DOs until CP/M-86 had caught on.
>>> But with the price differential, and the lead, PC-DOS remained the
>> standard.
>>>
>>>
>>> dr continued, came out with MP/M-86, and eventually came out with
>> "Concurrent DOS", and "DR-DOS", which was based on MS-DOS.
>>> Microsoft could not fault somebody for copying them, when it was the
>> ones that they had copied.
>>> No, Microsoft could certainly not claim trademark status for "DOS"!
>>> In fact, although Microsoft trademarkd "MS-DOS", IBM did NOT trademark
>> PC-DOS, saying that it just meant Personal Compter Disk Operating System,
>> which is a description, not a unique name. In 1987, I visited the Patent
>> and Trademark Office outside of Washington, DC, and personally confirmed
>> that in their stacks.
>>>
>>> Many people have said that blowing off IBM was the stupidest move in the
>> history of stupid moves.
>>> Other people insist that blowing off IBM was the BRAVEST move in history.
>>>
>>>
>>> A lot of people gave Gary flack about it.
>>> eventually, he bagan drinking.
>>>
>>> On July 8, 1994, Gary fell and hit his head. It is unclear whether that
>> was during an altercation. (A lot of people fall during bar brawls) It
>> was at the Franklin Street biker Bar & Grill, Investigation as a potential
>> homicide was inconclusive.
>>>
>>>
>>> About 10 years ago, I was in Pacific Grove, and visited the DR house on
>> Lighthouse street. An extremely hospitable fellow had recently bought it
>> in a foreclosure sale. At the time that he bought it, he was unaware of
>> the historical significance. He let me wander through the whole place,
>> looking out the upstairs window at the walkway, etc.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
>>
>>
