Does anyone have any thoughts about how we can measure some of this? I can definitely imagine a force pad on someone's back to measure the tension, but I'm a bit lost as to how he can measure the ground forces (including possibly torque around a vertical axis)?
I think normal force should be easy. That can be built into a pad on the ground if nothing else, but friction would be harder. Unless we had multiple pads each of which had force sensors in all 3 axes (plus a rotational sensor) does anyone know how much such an apparatus would cost to build? Now that I think about 3 axis force sensors, i wonder if there's much lateral or vertical force in the connection point and whether I'd there is that feels bad in some natural way. On Sat, Mar 30, 2024, 13:37 Joe Harrington via Contra Callers < contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Funny thing, I wrote the email below last Sunday and thought, do the > world's callers really want a physics calculation on their mailing list? I > decided the better of it and didn't send it. Ok, I guess I was wrong... > > What I call support is against centrifugal force, not vertical. Of course, > there's no need to lift the other dancer, and it's a really poor idea. > > As Jeff pointed out, in a fast swing, there's a lot of centrifugal force, > as seen from our rotating frame of reference in the swing. For physics > buffs, centrifugal force increases as the square of velocity, so a swing > that goes around three times in 8 beats rather than twice (1.5x faster > rotation, the first-level "fast swing") has 2.25 times as much outward > force to support. Estimating a 25 cm radius (about 50 cm between the > centers of mass of the two dancers, in the middles of their abdomens, which > I measured with a tape measure) and a 70 kg (150 lb) dancer, that's an > outward force for each of the two bodies of almost 390 Newtons, or nearly > 90 pounds. Much of that will be borne by the friction between the dancer's > feet and the floor, but the rest will be held by the supporting dancer(s). > How much depends on how they lean. For a standard swing (2 rotations per 8 > beats), it's just under 40 lbs. Fortunately, you only have to hold it for > four to eight seconds at a time, or actually less as you accelerate and > decelerate inside that time, though the peak force will then be higher. > > ...and now I add... > > Despite starting with it above, myself, I think we're somewhat misleading > ourselves with this Mv**2/r calculation. > > The key thing here is that a centrifugal-force calculation (centripetal, > actually) makes some assumptions that we dramatically violate when we > dance. We are not rigid bodies. At best, we're collections of many light > rigid bodies (our bones) linked by ligaments, tendons, and muscles, and > bearing all sorts of other masses that move relative to one another, > storing momentum until we can deal with it in the next step. We > effectively pump momentum up from our feet, into our bodies, and down to > our feet on each step. We transfer it to the other dancer through our arms > and theirs, and their back, if we have a hand there. > > With that in mind, consider this model of a swing. Each dancer's upper > half is trying to execute rigid circular motion. Our lower bodies (hips > down) are doing something else, and half our mass is down there. So, drop > my estimated 90 lbs to 45 just for that (I'll drop it more in a minute). > The lower half is essentially stepping a figure with 90 or 135 degree > corners on each beat. Consider the left foot. In a standard swing (2x in > 8 beats), it is walking a square, directing momentum along the sides of the > square that the upper body picks up and turns into rotation. Half of each > square side brings that leg closer to the middle, the other half takes it > farther away. We land, push off, and do it again and again. That push-off > supports the centripetal needs of both legs (through the hip joint) and > some of the upper body. If there is an outward lean off the right foot, > additional centripetal support is needed from either the legs or arms. The > right foot is mainly a pivot, while both feet support gravitational weight. > > Good dancers constantly adjust how far out their left feet land on each > step and how hard they push off, simultaneously satisfying both their > centripetal needs and the required spin rate. This lets them control how > much inward force they draw from their feet into the upper-body rotation to > supplement the arms. That reduces the support needed from the arms well > below 45 lbs. It can reduce it to zero. Tweaking the lean also adjusts > where the axis of rotation is, to balance the different masses of the > dancers and make their differing force impulses produce matched torque > impulses. Dancers use the beat to step in sync with the other dancer's > legs, or these torque impulses would come at different times, and the swing > would wobble and fall apart, as Chris Lacey alluded to. > > So, yeah, it's complicated, yet even children solve this problem when they > swing. Everyone is an intuitive physicist! And, each time I think about > this kind of thing, I get more amazed at the engineers who make robots. > Has anyone taught a robot to do a contra swing, yet? > > --jh-- > > > On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 3:24 PM Julian Blechner < > juliancallsdan...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> You mean, palms flat on the back of shoulderblades? If so, it's how I >> teach it, lots of callers teach it, and this is the first I've heard a >> complaint about it. >> >> That said, you describe: "I've had my elbow bent backward by eager robins >> pressing my elbow in to get their elbow in the right place." >> >> That _sounds like_ what I call "arm clamping". While yes, putting Robin's >> hand on the outside of the shoulder also alleviates the clamping, it's not >> the only way to fix it. A Robin can lift their elbow. (I just workshopped >> the issue with my partner in the living room to test a variety of height >> and holds out to confirm what you were saying, as well.) >> >> The other issue is that if both dancers don't have hands flat on the >> backs of each other, it's more difficult to maintain an open frame when >> swinging. One usually winds up _closer_ when hands are resting on >> shoulders, unless one dancer is significantly stronger and the other is >> fairly petite. >> >> I know that my right arm will get seriously fatigued and sore if I have >> an evening too many times as Lark with Robins providing insufficient >> support. And I've heard plenty of dancers say similar. >> >> That said, all bodies are different. If yours works where the swing hold >> works better for you the way you describe, that is what it is, yeah? But I >> might recommend considering workshopping swings further, because what >> you're requesting is counter to prevailing teaching. If I understand >> correctly (and it's always possible I'm missing something.) >> >> In dance, >> Julian Blechner >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 24, 2024, 1:13 PM Joe Harrington <contradancer...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Not the standard ballroom, with the robin's arm on top of the lark's, >>> but an alternative that I've seen occasionally, but for a number of years >>> now, where the robin tries to put their left hand in the same location on >>> the lark's back as the lark has their right hand on the robin's back. I >>> know at least one prominent caller who teaches this hold in their newbie >>> workshop and tells their dancers that both sides need to do this to provide >>> equal support in the swing. >>> >>> While I like the principle, the practice can hurt. If the dancers are >>> not grossly mismatched in size/arm length, it won't be possible to do this >>> without their elbows occupying the same space. I've had my elbow bent >>> backward by eager robins pressing my elbow in to get their elbow in the >>> right place. Even if it doesn't go all the way to pain, it pretty much >>> eliminates my ability to provide any support, unless I "fight back" by >>> pushing my elbow out and resisting the inward pressure, essentially >>> refusing the position. I'm also focusing entirely on protecting my elbow, >>> so it kills any enjoyment in that swing. >>> >>> Please gently discourage this hold. If a robin wants to give major >>> support in a swing, the symmetric swing holds, the barrel, the one Jeff >>> described, or even a mirror of the ballroom where the lark's arm is on top >>> are much better opportunities. A robin whose arm is longer than their >>> lark's arm can also reach over or around the shoulder in a ballroom hold >>> (robin's arm on top) to add support. Just don't push down on the shoulder. >>> >>> --jh-- >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 9:21 AM Julian Blechner < >>> juliancallsdan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> JJ, >>>> >>>> I like your point about the sort of code-switching that the asymmetry >>>> of a ballroom hold provides to reinforce what role one is dancing. >>>> >>>> Joe, >>>> >>>> I don't understand what you mean about the ballroom hold having elbows >>>> occupy the same space. I think I'd need to see it (in person or picture). >>>> That said, it raises the broader issue, which is the overall topic, that >>>> everyone has different physical needs and finding happy mediums is our goal >>>> for everyone dancing together. Your issue with ballroom hold handholds as >>>> such is a good reminder for me that no one - not even seasoned callers - >>>> can anticipate every need or difference. >>>> >>>> In dance, >>>> Julian Blechner >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 10:38 PM JJ <jcg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Personally for me, the standard ballroom swing helps me to "flip the >>>>> switch" in the brain on which side of the swing I'm "supposed to" end on >>>>> (assuming we're not switching roles back and forth for fun lol). If my >>>>> left >>>>> arm is the "pointy arm," I'm ending on the left; if my right arm is the >>>>> "pointy arm," I'm ending on the right. I don't have to consciously tell >>>>> myself "I'm the Lark" or "I'm the Robin," my muscle memory just takes over >>>>> and I just end on whichever side my arm position tells me to 😅. >>>>> >>>>> I enjoy neutral swings, but if we're not planning on switching roles >>>>> without warning through an individual dance, I tend to stick with the >>>>> traditional ballroom figure. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 22:33 Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers < >>>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> "At the time, it almost never happened that the one in the lady's >>>>>> role actually swung like a lady. I'm not sure when that became the >>>>>> norm." >>>>>> >>>>>> When I started dancing both roles, around 2005, I remember initially >>>>>> doing it as you said, with gender-neutral swings with the gents I >>>>>> encountered. I remember being surprised sometime around 2006-2007 when I >>>>>> ran into a few guys dancing switch who indicated they wanted to do the >>>>>> standard ballroom hold. By 2008-2009 I think my male friends and I were >>>>>> dancing the lady's role in the standard way? >>>>>> >>>>>> Jeff >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 10:16 PM Joe Harrington via Contra Callers < >>>>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I love the barrel hold, but some of my partners have reacted in a >>>>>>> way that indicated it was too intimate for them. This is especially >>>>>>> true >>>>>>> if I have to lean over to do it, as that puts my face pretty close to >>>>>>> theirs (I'm pretty tall). It's also difficult to do without frontal >>>>>>> contact if one or both partners is well on the heavy side. But, all >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> aside, if you and your partner like fast swings, it's a great hold, more >>>>>>> stable than ballroom, with four arms providing support rather than one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the late 1980s and early 1990s, when guys danced the lady's role >>>>>>> (using the terminology of the time for reasons you'll see in a moment), >>>>>>> we'd almost universally be offered the "gender-neutral swing", which is >>>>>>> symmetrical and very stable for fast swinging: both right arms are >>>>>>> around >>>>>>> the other's back and both left arms go over/around the other's right >>>>>>> arm, >>>>>>> bend 90 degrees at the elbow, pass between you, and clasp left hands >>>>>>> around >>>>>>> each other's forearms between your bodies. At the time, it almost never >>>>>>> happened that the one in the lady's role actually swung like a lady. >>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>> not sure when that became the norm. I would occasionally do it with a >>>>>>> particular guy partner whom I liked to dance with. We practiced it >>>>>>> first >>>>>>> and then did it with each other, but we gender-neutral-swung our >>>>>>> neighbors. We got some pretty surprised looks from our neighbors when >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> swung each other. At least one guy asked me if that partner and I were >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> item. Times and role terms and what people read into dance behavior >>>>>>> change... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In general, I'm quite happy to swing with guys in either role when >>>>>>> they're happy to swing with me. But, it's awkward and uncomfortable in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> extreme to be going up an entire line of consecutive frowns, growls, and >>>>>>> looks of disgust as a guy dancing the robbin...enough that I haven't >>>>>>> returned to the dance weekend where that happened in Fall 2022, even >>>>>>> though >>>>>>> it was pretty great in other ways. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The one swing style I really dislike is a modified ballroom position >>>>>>> where the robbin tries to put their hand on the lark's back in the same >>>>>>> place where the lark's hand is on theirs. I know some people actually >>>>>>> teach it this way, I guess as some kind of equality thing. It's >>>>>>> terrible, >>>>>>> because their elbow and the lark's elbow then have to occupy the same >>>>>>> space, which, well, physics. If I'm the lark and their arm is outside >>>>>>> mine, when they try to provide support, it hyperextends my right elbow, >>>>>>> eliminating any chance I can provide support and sometimes inducing pain >>>>>>> before I can either force my elbow back out, displacing their hand from >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> back, or pull my arm up to rest it on their arm in a mirror of the >>>>>>> traditional ballroom hold. I hope we can convince everyone to stop >>>>>>> teaching this hold, as it usually doesn't work as intended and it can >>>>>>> hurt >>>>>>> the lark. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One assist that does work in ballroom position and requires no >>>>>>> communication is, if the robbin's arm is as long as or longer than the >>>>>>> lark's, they rest their left arm on the lark's right, extending the >>>>>>> entire >>>>>>> length of the arm and then reaching around/over the lark's shoulder to >>>>>>> provide some support on the shoulder blade. In my case, at least, if >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> are short enough that they can't do this, then they're often also light >>>>>>> enough that additional support isn't critical, though it does make for >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> connection. It's important not to press down on the shoulder, though. >>>>>>> Only >>>>>>> pull forward. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --jh-- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 12:52 PM Julian Blechner via Contra Callers < >>>>>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At the last couple of dances in the last few days, I thought about >>>>>>>> this email thread and observations. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Short and simple: >>>>>>>> A "barrel hold" swing: >>>>>>>> - Seemed to provide a little bit more space than a ballroom hold >>>>>>>> - One neighbor offered it (by chance) really clearly, as a lark, >>>>>>>> with his left arm curved into a sort of "offer a hug" type position. >>>>>>>> As we >>>>>>>> engaged in the swing hold, he placed his left arm in place, and it >>>>>>>> guided >>>>>>>> things in. It worked pretty well for me, at least as an experienced >>>>>>>> dancer. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In dance, >>>>>>>> -Julian Blechner >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 4:18 PM becky.liddle--- via Contra Callers < >>>>>>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I can’t answer whether the robin's would always HAVE to go above >>>>>>>>> the lark’s in the modified ballroom swing, but I would intuitively >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> that having that rule/understanding might make it easier for dancers >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> make the transition from ballroom to modified ballroom because the >>>>>>>>> robin’s >>>>>>>>> arm is always on top in standard ballroom swing. Also, the lark’s >>>>>>>>> hand is >>>>>>>>> typically cupped upwards with the robin’s hand above the lark’s in >>>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>>> like a balance or even a handhold in a circle move, so having the >>>>>>>>> hand/arm >>>>>>>>> orientations the same in the swing would also seem more intuitive to >>>>>>>>> me if >>>>>>>>> I were just learning this swing. >>>>>>>>> Becky >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 16, 2024, at 12:25 PM, Katherine Kitching via Contra >>>>>>>>> Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi John, thanks for all your comments. I like this swing at >>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUiXStkCHGs from 0:05 to 0:15 - >>>>>>>>> for spacing -- and I'm going to introduce it at our next dance! >>>>>>>>> Though >>>>>>>>> what I think Becky found interesting about the variation we're >>>>>>>>> working on >>>>>>>>> is that it retains the "pointy hands", which can be useful. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The one thing that I was confused about when I read your message: >>>>>>>>> you say when you tried the swing variation our group has been >>>>>>>>> experimenting >>>>>>>>> with (visual at >>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ebotfe2jksbr3dqbjyiuf/Modified-Ballroom-Swing-elbow-hold.jpg?rlkey=ekblzvpc2tk2hkbtfrh9u96au&dl=0 >>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ebotfe2jksbr3dqbjyiuf/Modified-Ballroom-Swing-elbow-hold.jpg?rlkey=ekblzvpc2tk2hkbtfrh9u96au&dl=0> >>>>>>>>> -- you say that you found the grip insufficient, for the arms that >>>>>>>>> are holding just above the elbow. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But in my mind, this hold that me and my partner are doing with >>>>>>>>> his left hand my right hand , is supposed to be the same as the hold >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> use in this video of yours - (but in your case, your left hand and her >>>>>>>>> right hand.) >>>>>>>>> Maybe I didn't execute it properly, but it is what I intended: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/yUbi1B2Edk0?si=HL-3jgI95LtGZBQ_&t=198 >>>>>>>>> Starts at 3:18. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thoughts? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, is anyone able to answer my question to Winston - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it a given, due to something in the asymmetric nature of the >>>>>>>>> hold, that in this video referenced by Allan - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ0R5iHT-l8 >>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/yUbi1B2Edk0?si=HL-3jgI95LtGZBQ_&t=198> or in the >>>>>>>>> photo I shared above via Dropbox, that the Robin's arm will *always* >>>>>>>>> go above the Lark's arm? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or could the placement of the arms vary depending on the relative >>>>>>>>> height of the two dancing partners? >>>>>>>>> (for example with a 6' tall Lark and a 5' tall Robin, would the >>>>>>>>> Robin's arm still be above the Lark's? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks all! >>>>>>>>> Kat K in Halifax >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> John Sweeney via Contra Callers >>>>>>>>> <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> >>>>>>>>> Thursday, March 14, 2024 7:23 AM >>>>>>>>> Hi Kat, >>>>>>>>> Yes, I thought you meant something like you show in your photo. >>>>>>>>> When you mentioned Jeff's photo I did wonder, as it is what I call a >>>>>>>>> Foreshortened Hold in my video and brings you closer together rather >>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>> further apart. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I picked up the Foreshortened Hold from the cover of Zesty Contras >>>>>>>>> and love it. I was surprised when I analysed the 600 dancers at a >>>>>>>>> contra >>>>>>>>> dance at The Flurry and realised that nobody else was using it! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We tried your Modified Ballroom Hold Swing and didn't feel that it >>>>>>>>> really worked. With my right arm underneath there didn't seem to be >>>>>>>>> enough >>>>>>>>> connection to have a really good swing unless Karen gripped my arm. I >>>>>>>>> felt >>>>>>>>> that my hand might slide down. With my right arm on top Karen felt >>>>>>>>> that it >>>>>>>>> was pulling on her shoulder even though I wasn't gripping - it was >>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>> awkward. So, sorry, but I won't be using that one. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Re all the references to sore arms/hands/wrists/etc. The biggest >>>>>>>>> problem is that people are told to "give weight". I don't want your >>>>>>>>> weight! >>>>>>>>> People misunderstand and lean back or sideways. If people control >>>>>>>>> their own >>>>>>>>> weight then all the connection has to do is counter centrifugal force >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> that it not a lot inless you spin really fast. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I always start a Swing lesson by getting the dancers to Buzz on >>>>>>>>> the spot BY THEMSELVES. Then when they connect they keep their own >>>>>>>>> balance >>>>>>>>> and weight. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have had major operations on both my shoulders (too much >>>>>>>>> Repetitive Strain Injury from another style of dance that is taught >>>>>>>>> badly, >>>>>>>>> and then lots of Aerials: >>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/CJnL_Y63AnY?si=RqKHSw5MQmhiuIFT - maybe I >>>>>>>>> shouldn't have started doing those in my fifties!). Anyway, I can't >>>>>>>>> afford >>>>>>>>> to let people damage my shoulders. With a good partner I can Swing at >>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>> speeds with no problem. Whenever someone leans back or sideways I >>>>>>>>> just slow >>>>>>>>> the Swing down and lessen my connection so that they have to take >>>>>>>>> their own >>>>>>>>> weight or fall over. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anyway, if you can get everyone to keep their own weight you will >>>>>>>>> find it is much less strain on your arm/hand/wrist. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The standard Quebecois Swing has the feet interleaved. They seem >>>>>>>>> to do it without any problem. It is just a different feel and takes >>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>> getting used to. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Someone mentioned the challenges with being too close in a Ceilidh >>>>>>>>> Swing (http://contrafusion.co.uk/SwingWorkshop.html#Ceilidh ) - >>>>>>>>> you could always try the Forearm Swing instead ( >>>>>>>>> http://contrafusion.co.uk/SwingWorkshop.html#Linked ) - same >>>>>>>>> principle, but further apart so no bodily contact. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Happy dancing, >>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & >>>>>>>>> 07802 940 574 >>>>>>>>> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>>>>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>>> becky.liddle--- via Contra Callers >>>>>>>>> <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> >>>>>>>>> Wednesday, March 13, 2024 10:20 PM >>>>>>>>> For me, the enforced intimacy is about the proximity of bodies and >>>>>>>>> lack of physical air space between them. The huge difference between a >>>>>>>>> swing in contra vs., say, agreeing to dance a waltz or a swing dance >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> someone, is that by agreeing to dance you’re agreeing to swing with >>>>>>>>> EVERY >>>>>>>>> opposite-role person in the line, not just the person you asked to >>>>>>>>> dance. >>>>>>>>> That’s a much bigger commitment to physical contact/intimacy than >>>>>>>>> saying >>>>>>>>> yes to one person. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As a side note, before we got rid of a lecherous dancer in our >>>>>>>>> group a few years ago, MANY women in our dance group chose their >>>>>>>>> contra >>>>>>>>> dance line specifically to avoid having to swing with him. The most >>>>>>>>> important intervention was, of course, to establish a code of conduct >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> we used to remove him from the dance group (when it became clear he >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> not agree to change his behaviour). But for women (and others, but >>>>>>>>> it’s >>>>>>>>> always been women who have said this to me over the years), when they >>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>> to a dance not KNOWING whether there MIGHT be a letch in the line, it >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> asking quite a lot to expect them to do a ballroom swing with whoever >>>>>>>>> comes >>>>>>>>> at them. I am wondering whether the modified ballroom hold might make >>>>>>>>> contra feel safer, especially for new dancers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I’d love to hear what folks who have used both feel about the >>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Becky >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 13, 2024, at 4:34 PM, Julian Blechner >>>>>>>>> <juliancallsdan...@gmail.com> <juliancallsdan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would love to read elaboration / articulation on why a ballroom >>>>>>>>> hold feels more "intimate" than other holds? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>>>>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>>> Julian Blechner via Contra Callers >>>>>>>>> <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> >>>>>>>>> Wednesday, March 13, 2024 5:34 PM >>>>>>>>> I would love to read elaboration / articulation on why a ballroom >>>>>>>>> hold feels more "intimate" than other holds? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it a matter of the historical social attachment we have in our >>>>>>>>> minds with couples dances that use the hold, and romance in our >>>>>>>>> culture? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it a physical proximity? (I find ceilidh holds to be closer, >>>>>>>>> crossed arms has my hands bearish their belly which has its own >>>>>>>>> intimacy to >>>>>>>>> me, though sometimes barrel holds can be done with a bit more space - >>>>>>>>> though I wouldn't say the default) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it something else? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Maybe if we looked at the why, it'd give insight to what a >>>>>>>>> solution to an alternate swing hold and/or an adjusted mindset might >>>>>>>>> entail? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In dance, >>>>>>>>> Julian Blechner >>>>>>>>> He/him >>>>>>>>> Western Mass >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>>>>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>>>>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>>>>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >
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