Le Thu, 26 Sep 2002 00:17:02 +0200, Buchan Milne a écrit : > On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Ralph F De Witt wrote: > >> First of I would like to say that all at Mandarke and volunteers and >> developers did very well with 9.0. It is going to be a great release. I >> am pleased that the beta cycle was a little longer than 8.2. This has >> certainly helped to eleminate most bugs. >> I have no comments as to the building and testing phases. But I have >> comments on the reporting phase. I liked that there were three ways to >> report bugs, but I think that needs to be limited to one way. I really >> got mad when reporting 3 or 4 bugs during the RC3 portion via >> MandrakeExpert when I was told to get a Bugzilla account and report them >> myself, as the expert told me he ws told not to do any more bug reports >> because they were all usless. This really angered me. I agree that there >> are a lot of bad bug reports with a open beta like we do. I have probbly >> done a few my self. But I liked the MandrakeExpert way of doing it >> because I had someone more knowledgeable than me to look at it and say, >> hey how about doing this and this and sending the info. Or send the >> contains of such and such file. This allowed me to turn a bad bug report >> into a useful one, and one that was taken away from me I got very angry. >> I think bug reporting should have only one way to report, and that it >> should be a two step process. One submitte a report, get feed back as to >> other things that are need, when useful, it is submitted. I think that >> some sort of feed back needs to be given to the person reporting the bug >> when it is actioned and completed. >> Any way just my $.02, I hope it helps make the next beta testing go >> round smoother. > > I would agree with this sentiment. > > In the end, what needs to be accomplished for the next beta cycle is to > increase the number of bug reports dealt with successfully, while reducing > the time developers/packages spend doing so. > > One aspect is ensuring that all bugs are reported in some way. I have done > a bit of mining other sites (MandrakeForum and PCLinuxonline) to try and > get bugs that were compained about there reported (and I think I got at > least one bug report to cooker).
Thanks for that.. But usually, bugs reported on forums are very bad quality bug reports or hardware specific bugs.. It means we need "direct" contact with the reporter (eitheir with email or bugzilla..) > Also, accurate summaries of the number of unresolved bugs etc need to be > available (watch the errata for some bugs that were known but not resolved > that could have been ...). > > Other projects (OO.o, Mozilla, RH) seem to be able to use Bugzilla > effectively, so I don't think Bugzilla is the problem. It is not part of the problem, it is part of the solution.. A well maintained bugzilla can be a very useful tool : Let's share my work with GNOME 2. During GNOME 2.0 development, one bugmaster (Louie Villa, who is a Ximian employee but who was paid by Sun for this task) was triaging bugs all day long (even during night :)) Thanks to Louie, GNOME 2.0 has not slipped too much and GNOME release team had a way to monitor project status.. We currently have NO bugmaster here at MandrakeSoft (our QA team has already too much work with hardware testing and other things)... This is why we didn't open fully our bugzilla like before (we did that with 8.0 IIRC and it was a mess, mainly because of bad quality of bug reports..) MandrakeExpert bug forwarding was an experiment for 9.0 but I (this is a personal opinion) think it has failed somehow, because not of quality of bug reports and often missing email to ask for details.. I suggested to Warly why we should try "plug" bugzilla to cooker mailing-list, ie when a new bug is created on bugzilla, an email is be send to cooker for review by Cooker community (either triagged as duplicate, or more info added by other folks having the same problem..). Replies on this email would be archived on bugzilla. This is not a easy thing to do since registration on bugzilla is needed to be able to add comments on bug but Warly told me he will investigate after 9.0 is out.. WDYT of this proposal ? > The other issues is that there is a substantial amount of free labour > available, and this should be taken advantage of. > > And, there also need to be people who use the software in question daily. > As an example (not to dis Fred), I don't think Fred Crozat uses Mozilla > mail, but he is the packager. I do use mozilla-mail daily (and have about > 30 people, increasing daily, using it on windows atm). Agreed.. One of the strengh of Debian is the high number of packagers : usually, packager uses their software.. But I package Evolution, Mozilla and Galeon and I can only use one mailer and one web browser :(( > I am quite sure that between the non-Mandrakesoft employees on this list, > and the MandrakeExperts, that there could be approx 1 volunteer per major > package. > > So, I think it would be feasible (depeding on how easily Bugzilla can be > hacked to do this) to have at least one non-mandrakesoft bug-triager per > package, who would be able to answer the easy questions (fixed in -Xmdk, > known bug in original package, fix in progress etc), thus removing a lot > of the noise from the list. I'm not sure having assigned people per package is really a good idea => it will require a lot of people.. But your idea is somehow a variation on the same theme as my idea :) > Since some of these volunteers may be "experts" at Mandrakeexpert, it may > be convenient to be able to turn a bugzilla bug report into a support > question. Similarly, a support question may need to be turned into a bug > report. Good idea.. Another idea is to be able to "migrate" bug reports between various bugzilla : it can be done with latest bugzilla version.. When GNOME and KDE will be running latest bugzilla version, we should be able to migrate bugs between bugzilla (ie if I get a bug which is not Mandrake specific on a GNOME component, I could migrate it to GNOME bugzilla..) This is a long term project but I hope it will be done some day.. -- Frédéric Crozat MandrakeSoft
