I will start a vote to mark Hive 1.x EOL next week. Let me know if anyone has concerns around it.
The main reason to mark a release line EOL is: if we have a CVE & if we don't release all the active lines with the fix we can't announce that & the PMC would be flagged every quarter for delaying the process, So, sooner or later we need to find a way to reduce the number of active release lines. -Ayush On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 at 01:35, Chao Sun <sunc...@apache.org> wrote: > > Hive 2.x is still being used by other projects like Spark and Iceberg, > and periodically there are bug fixes & CVE fixes coming into the > branch. So I would suggest keeping it alive for a bit longer (maybe > after 2.3.10/11 release) until the other projects are ready to move > away from it (which could take some significant efforts). > > Chao > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 5:51 AM Ayush Saxena <ayush...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > +1, to start EOL vote for 1.x, and we can keep a doc or a reference in the > > Hive Wiki/Website to mark the lines EOL > > > > Sharing thoughts about the other release lines. > > Though there were assertions that we have a lot of users on 2.x & 3.x > > lines, I don't think marking these lines as EOL will impact them that > > badly. > > Marking a release line seems to be a Dev agreement that we as the > > developers aren't putting enough efforts now maintaining these branches and > > they aren't very up to date. > > > > Quoting the example from Hadoop. Hadoop 3.1.x line is marked as EOL and > > still almost every second person on Hadoop 3.x line is on a heavily patched > > version of 3.1.x, and from the other half still a bunch of them are on 2.x > > family, out of which only 2.10.x isn't EOL. Side note: As of today Hive in > > master branch also depends on an unstable EOL version of hadoop, that is > > 3.1.0(Upgrade in progress) > > > > From the stability point of view, I agree with Stamatis that 4.x in alpha > > stage is still better than a bunch of previous releases in many aspects, > > and supporting older releases will just slow down the chances of > > adaptability of the new 4.x. > > If we see the git history even of these old branches, the frequency of > > commits are even too low, so I don't think most of the > > developers/committers aren't putting efforts maintaining these > > branches.(Subjective Opinion) > > > > IMO, We should consider marking 1.x & 2.x as EOL, Resolve upgrade issues > > mentioned for 3.x->4.x and once resolved, if that doesn't require any > > changes on 3.x line and everyone is happy then mark that even as EOL or > > else have a last bridge release for this branch to move to 4.x > > > > Just my 2 cents. > > > > -Ayush > > > > > > > > On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 at 19:38, Stamatis Zampetakis <zabe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > In the last exchanges there was a general consensus to EOL Hive 1.X but no > > > additional action. > > > I believe the next step would be to start a VOTE and move forward with an > > > official announcement. > > > > > > I think it would be helpful for the end-users to know which releases are > > > supported and which are strongly discouraged. > > > The Hadoop community keeps this information in their wiki [1]. > > > > > > Although, I am still not convinced that we should encourage users to use > > > the older release lines (2.X, 3.X) we can postpone the decision for the > > > time being and proceed just for 1.X. > > > > > > Best, > > > Stamatis > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HADOOP/EOL+%28End-of-life%29+Release+Branches > > > > > > On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 2:51 PM Stamatis Zampetakis <zabe...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts. I am happy to see so many > > > > people involved in the discussion. > > > > > > > > I would say that the current 4.0.0-alpha-1 is better in many aspects > > > > than > > > > previous stable releases, although this might be a bit subjective. > > > > > > > > I am afraid that if we keep supporting older releases it will take too > > > > much time till people start using the 4.x. > > > > Having real deployments of Hive 4 is the only way to go from alpha to > > > > stable releases with confidence. > > > > > > > > I checked the download statistics for Hive releases [1], [2] for the > > > > past > > > > month and the results show that the vast majority of downloads are for > > > > older releases. > > > > I am not posting the stats here since I am not sure if this would > > > > violate > > > > some policies. Hive committers can access the stats using their ASF > > > > credentials. > > > > To some degree this is expected but at the same time problematic given > > > the > > > > number of open issues which affect older releases. > > > > > > > > I would definitely like to have multiple maintenance branches with high > > > > quality standards but I don't think there are enough active committers > > > > in > > > > the project to successfully maintain those. > > > > The https://github.com/mr3project/hive-mr3 repo may be a great fit for > > > an > > > > upcoming ASF Hive release. > > > > However, according to what Sungwoo said, this seems more like a new > > > > maintenance branch rather than a continuation of Hive 3. > > > > Moving towards this direction would certainly require more time from all > > > > of us. > > > > > > > > Lastly, it seems that there are some issues preventing people from using > > > > 4.0.0-alpha-1. > > > > As Peter already mentioned these issues are probably release blockers > > > > and > > > > it should be taken into account in the next Hive 4 release. > > > > The thread about the next steps after 4.0.0-alpha-1 [3] is the perfect > > > > place to discuss those. > > > > For those with certain demands around Hive 4, please reply to [3] and > > > > include any specific JIRAs that need to be in the scope of the next > > > release. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Stamatis > > > > > > > > [1] https://logging1-he-de.apache.org/stats/ > > > > [2] https://repository.apache.org/#central-stat > > > > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/n245dd23kb2v3qrrfp280w3pto89khxj > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 10:55 AM Sungwoo Park <glap...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> We maintain our own fork of Hive 3 because we are not always adding new > > > >> commits to the tip of the branch. To backport a new patch, sometimes we > > > >> have to add new commits between existing commits, update earlier > > > commits, > > > >> and so on. This makes it impractical to keep adding new patches only to > > > the > > > >> tip of the branch while reverting commits if necessary. Maintaining the > > > >> Hive 3 branch would mean frequent force-updates, which might produce > > > more > > > >> problems. (If this is not an issue, we could try to completely rebuild > > > the > > > >> Hive 3 branch.) > > > >> > > > >> I hope the Apache community can make a concerted effort to figure out > > > >> what patches to include in Hive 3. For us, the challenge was 1) to > > > decide > > > >> which patch to include; 2) to figure out its dependencies if any; 3) to > > > >> resolve conflicts. Testing was also another source of pain. > > > >> > > > >> Thanks, > > > >> > > > >> --- Sungwoo > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 4:26 PM Peter Vary <pv...@cloudera.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> When we were brainstorming about the future of the Hive 3 branch with > > > >>> Zoltan Haindrich, he mentioned this letter: > > > >>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/by9ppc2z8oqdzpqotzv5bs34yrxrd84l > > > >>> > > > >>> I think Sungwoo Park and his team makes a huge effort to maintain this > > > >>> branch, and maybe it would be better to help them do this inside the > > > Apache > > > >>> Hive project. They should not need to maintain their own branch if > > > there is > > > >>> no particular reason behind it, or we can remove those blockers. This > > > could > > > >>> be beneficial for every Hive user who still uses Hive 3. > > > >>> > > > >>> @Sungwoo: Do you have any specific reason to keep you own fork of Hive > > > 3? > > > >>> > > > >>> That would mean we could have a much better Hive 3.x branch than we > > > have > > > >>> now. > > > >>> > > > >>> What do you think? > > > >>> > > > >>> Thanks, > > > >>> Peter > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On 2022. May 10., at 8:40, Battula, Brahma Reddy < > > > >>> bbatt...@visa.com.INVALID> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Agree to Peter and sunchao.. > > > >>> > > > >>> Even we are using the hive 3.x, we might contribute on bugfixes. > > > >>> > > > >>> Even I am +1 on 1.x EOL as it's hard to maintain so many releases and > > > >>> time to user's migrate to 2.x and 3.x. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On 09/05/22, 10:51 PM, "Chao Sun" <sunc...@apache.org> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Agree to Peter above. I know quite a few projects such as Spark, > > > >>> Iceberg and Trino/Presto are depending on Hive 2.x and 3.x, and > > > >>> periodically they may need new fixes in these. Upgrading them to > > > >>> use > > > >>> 4.x seems not an option for now since the core classified artifact > > > has > > > >>> been removed and the shading issue has to be solved before they can > > > >>> consume the new jar. > > > >>> > > > >>> On Mon, May 9, 2022 at 4:10 AM Peter Vary <pv...@cloudera.com> > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Hi Team, > > > >>> > > > >>> My experience with the Iceberg community shows that there are some > > > >>> sizeable userbase around Hive 2.x. I have seen patches, contributions > > > to > > > >>> Hive 2.3.x branches, and the tests are in much better shape there. > > > >>> > > > >>> I would definitely vote for EOL Hive 1.x, but until we have a stable > > > >>> 4.x, I would be cautious about slashing 2.x, 3.x branches. > > > >>> > > > >>> Just my 2 cents. > > > >>> > > > >>> Peter > > > >>> > > > >>> On 2022. May 9., at 10:51, Alessandro Solimando < > > > >>> alessandro.solima...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Hi Stamatis, > > > >>> thanks for bringing up this topic, I basically agree on everything you > > > >>> wrote. > > > >>> > > > >>> I just wanted to add that this kind of proposal might sound harsh, > > > >>> because in many contexts upgrading is a complex process, but it's in > > > >>> nobody's interest to keep release branches that are missing important > > > >>> fixes/improvements and that might not meet the quality standards that > > > >>> people expect, as mentioned. > > > >>> > > > >>> Since we don't have yet a stable 4.x release (only alpha for now) we > > > >>> might want to keep supporting the 3.x branch until the first 4.x > > > >>> stable > > > >>> release and EOL < 3.x branches, WDYT? > > > >>> > > > >>> Best regards, > > > >>> Alessandro > > > >>> > > > >>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 23:14, Stamatis Zampetakis <zabe...@gmail.com> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Hi all, > > > >>> > > > >>> The current master has many critical bug fixes as well as important > > > >>> performance improvements that are not backported (and most likely > > > >>> never > > > >>> will) to the maintenance branches. > > > >>> > > > >>> Backporting changes from master usually requires adapting the code and > > > >>> tests in questions making it a non-trivial and time consuming task. > > > >>> > > > >>> The ASF bylaws require PMCs to deliver high quality software which > > > >>> satisfy certain criteria. Cutting new releases from maintenance > > > branches > > > >>> with known critical bugs is not compliant with the ASF. > > > >>> > > > >>> CI is unstable in all maintenance branches making the quality of a > > > >>> release questionable and merging new PRs rather difficult. Enabling > > > >>> and > > > >>> running it frequently in all maintenance branches would require a big > > > >>> amount of resources on top of what we already need for master. > > > >>> > > > >>> History has shown that it is very difficult or impossible to properly > > > >>> maintain multiple release branches for Hive. > > > >>> > > > >>> I think it would be to the best interest of the project if the PMC > > > >>> decided to drop support for maintenance branches and focused on > > > releasing > > > >>> exclusively from master. > > > >>> > > > >>> This mail is related to the discussion about the release cadence [1] > > > >>> since it would certainly help making Hive releases more regular. I > > > decided > > > >>> to start a separate thread to avoid mixing multiple topics together. > > > >>> > > > >>> Looking forward to your thoughts. > > > >>> > > > >>> Best, > > > >>> Stamatis > > > >>> > > > >>> [1] > > > >>> > > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread%2Fn245dd23kb2v3qrrfp280w3pto89khxj&data=05%7C01%7Cbbattula%40visa.com%7Ccba1383657724a00f0bb08da31e069bc%7C38305e12e15d4ee888b9c4db1c477d76%7C0%7C0%7C637877137169408371%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=X3BJyzgALXZVnjmd2PzbLrOi4lXMHxEQa8KwA1Pz7BQ%3D&reserved=0 > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >
