Thanks Skip for all your help and input into this matter, and until I see something from the FCC it's dead for me. Let Jose take it from here. You have done more than a lot others would have. Tnx
Russell NC5O 1- Whoever said nothing is impossible never tried slamming a revolving door! 2- A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson " IN GOD WE TRUST " Russell Blair (NC5O) Skype-Russell.Blair Hell Field #300 DRCC #55 30m Dig-group #693 ________________________________ From: KH6TY <kh...@comcast.net> To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, February 26, 2010 9:48:45 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ROS carrier pattern when idle Jose, I am a ham radio "member" in good standing and have been for over 55 years. I believe I also have some degree of respect and appreciation in the ham community for my development of DigiPan, introduction of PSK63, and my speech-to-text software for the blind ham so they can use PSK31. Recently, I have been trying to use my experience in dealing with the FCC to help get you over this problem you have created, but you do not understand that, and I really do not appreciate your snide inferences as to my motives. You have made your own bed, so you can now lie in it, Jose. I will not waste any more of my time trying to help ROS be legal in the USA. Let someone else be the subject of your personal attacks. Goodbye and good luck. 73 - Skip KH6TY jose alberto nieto ros wrote: >KH, are you a Ham Radio or a FCC member? > >If you are Ham Radio you should waste your time in help new modes would be >used. Only a fool throws stones at your own roof. So, if you are not a FCC >member, then we know what you are. > > > ________________________________ De: KH6TY <kh...@comcast. net> >Para: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com >Enviado: vie,26 febrero, 2010 15:27 >Asunto: Re: [digitalradio] ROS carrier pattern when idle > > >Hi Warren, > >I have already captured a spectrum of Olivia 32-100 (i.e., FSK32) and posted >it in a reply, but glad do it again.. You can see the fixed frequencies at >idle and then the new frequencies added when data is sent (in the "seared" >middle part). I have not combined that on one uploaded page with the ROS >spectrum analysis, but you can easily compare the two yourself, using the ROS >spectral analysys with MFSK16. I wanted to confirm that both MFSK16 and Olivia >32-100 had the same signature of FSK, and they do, which is far different from >the signature of ROS. It is very clear that ROS is using Frequency Hopping, as >the frequencies are not a function of the data, and that is a unique >characteristic of frequency hopping, at least according to everything I could >find. > >Olivia 32-1000: http://home. comcast.net/ ~hteller/ OLIVIA32- 1000.JPG > >73 - Skip KH6TY > > > >Warren Moxley wrote: > >>Skip, can you show some more spectral comparison examples? This time add the >>widest Olivia mode and other very wide modes. >> >>Thanks in advance, >> >>Warren - K5WGM >> >> >>--- On Fri, 2/26/10, KH6TY <kh...@comcast. net> wrote: >> >> >>>From: KH6TY <kh...@comcast. net> >>>Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ROS carrier pattern when idle >>>To: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com >>>Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 8:11 AM >>> >>> >>> >>>Jose, my attempted help is to let you understand that the FCC believed you >>>when you said ROS is FHSS, so you will fail in any attempt to reclassify ROS >>>as just FKS144. The FCC will not believe you. What will probably succeed is >>>for you to continue to describe ROS as FHSS and let the FCC permit it in the >>>USA as long as it can be monitored, the bandwidth does not exceed the wide >>>of a SSB phone signal, and it is not used in either the phone bands (data is >>>illegal there anyway) or in the band segments where narrow modes, such as >>>PSK31 are used because it is as wide as the entire PSK31 activity area. >>> >>>Look at the spectral comparison http://home. comcast.net/ ~hteller/ >>>SPECTRUM. JPG. In the middle, I am sending data by MFSK16 (the letters "N"), >>>and you can see that the frequencies are being determined by the data, which >>>means it is not FHSS. But, in the middle of the ROS spectral display, I am >>>doing the same thing, and there is no change to the frequencies being >>>transmitted, obviously because the frequencies are independent of the data, >>>which is requirement #2 in the ROS documentation for FHSS. This definitely >>>implies ROS is FHSS. >>> >>>If you really want ROS to be legal here, just support a petition to the FCC >>>to allow it. >>> >>>73 - Skip KH6TY >>> >>> >>> >>>jose alberto nieto ros wrote: >>> >>>>If you are waste time in try demostrate ROS is a SS, i think you are not >>>>trying help. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ De: KH6TY <kh...@comcast. net> >>>>Para: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com >>>>Enviado: vie,26 febrero, 2010 14:36 >>>>Asunto: Re: [digitalradio] ROS carrier pattern when idle >>>> >>>> >>>>> jose alberto nieto ros wrote: >>>>> I propose to moderator you will be banned if you continue saying stupid >>>>> things in this group. >>>> >>>>Moderated for stupidity? Now that will be a first! >>>> >>>>Good luck with trying to fool the FCC. Spectral analysis suggests ROS >>>>really is FHSS, no matter what you now try to claim. >>>> >>>>This picture does not lie: http://home. comcast.net/ ~hteller/ SPECTRUM. JPG >>>> >>>>Too bad - ROS is a fun mode and I cannot use it in USA except on UHF. >>>> >>>>I have only tried to help find a way for US hams to use ROS. It will be an >>>>honor to be banned for my stupidity! :-) Please go ahead as you wish. >>>> >>>> >>>>73, Skip KH6TY SK >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>jose alberto nieto ros wrote: >>>> >>>>>My friend, one thing is what i wrote, and other different is what ROS is. >>>>> >>>>>If recommend you waste your time in doing something by Ham Radio, instead >>>>>of criticism ROS. >>>>> >>>>>I propose to moderator you will be banned if you continue saying stupid >>>>>things in this group. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ De: KH6TY <kh...@comcast. net> >>>>>Para: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com >>>>>Enviado: vie,26 febrero, 2010 13:18 >>>>>Asunto: Re: [digitalradio] ROS carrier pattern when idle >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If MFSK16 was randomized would it magically become spread-spectrum? >>>>> >>>>>Alan, sorry I forgot to reply to this question. >>>>> >>>>>The answer is yes, but only if the following three conditions are ALL met >>>>>(from the ROS documentation) : >>>>> >>>>>1. The signal occupies a bandwidth much in excess of the minimum bandwidth >>>>>necessary to send the information. >>>>>2. Spreading is accomplished by means of a spreading signal, often called >>>>>a code signal, which is independent of the data. >>>>>3. At the receiver, despreading (recovering the original data) is >>>>>accomplished by the correlation of the received spread signal with a >>>>>synchronized replica of the spreading signal used to spread the >>>>>information. >>>>> >>>>>Standard modulation schemes as frequency modulation and pulse code >>>>>modulation also spread the spectrum of an information signal, but they do >>>>>not qualify as spread-spectrum systems since they do not satisfy all the >>>>>conditions outlined above. >>>>> >>>>>Looking at the comparison between ROS and MFSK16, http://home. >>>>>comcast.net/ ~hteller/ SPECTRUM. JPG, it is easy to see that MFSK16 is not >>>>>FHSS, but ROS definitely is. >>>>> >>>>>Another thing that a petition should include is a requirement that ROS >>>>>only be used BELOW the phone segments and ABOVE the narrowband data >>>>>segments. On 20m, that means only between 14.1 and 14.225, because ROS is >>>>>so wide. >>>>> >>>>>BTW, this same issue came up during the "regulation by bandwidth" debate >>>>>when the ARRL HSMM (High Speed MultiMedia) proponents wanted to allow >>>>>wideband, short timespan, signals everywhere with the argument that they >>>>>last such a short time on any given frequency that they do not interfere, >>>>>but the fallacy to that argument is that when you get a multitude of HSMM >>>>>signals on at the same time, all together they can ruin communication for >>>>>narrow modes, like PSK31. >>>>> >>>>>The other problem is that SHARING of frequencies requires that users of >>>>>one mode be able to communicate with users of another mode in the same >>>>>space so QRL or QSY can be used. It was realized that only CW used by both >>>>>parties would make this possible. ROS does not work well in a crowded >>>>>environment or with wideband QRM, so it must find a home relatively clear >>>>>of other mode QRM. This is just another job the FCC must do in order to be >>>>>sure a new mode does not create chaos. It has already been shown that >>>>>leaving that up just to hams does not work, and the strongest try to take >>>>>over the frequencies. >>>>> >>>>>upper >>>>> >>>>>73 - Skip KH6TY >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Alan Barrow wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>If MFSK16 was randomized would it magically become spread-spectrum? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> >
